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Spat at by Merc driver

  • 13-06-2007 9:48pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭


    Well, the adage was proved again, all merc drivers are w@nkers.

    Pulled up to a junction this evening...merc pulled over to the left, way too much to the left. There was plenty of space for him to leave room for cyclists. I'm fed up of weaving in and out of traffic for cyclist blocking drivers. So I put my foot down on the pavement and folded his spring loaded wing mirror back to get by, and it sprung back, hunky dorey.

    I took up a position in front of the merc and waited for the lights to change. Much beeping of horn and shouting like a rabid baboon from merc driver.

    The lights changed and through the junction the merc driver continues to shout abuse at me through the open passenger side window. "You touch my car again and I'l ff'ing kill ya" type of thing. I told him he should have left space for the cyclists, not my fault if he's too far over. I also asked him if he had a full licence. The abuse from him continued, then he went to ram me, run me off the road. He wanted to get out up ahead and physically attack me, but he settled for spitting at me through the open window. So I spit back and got on his windscreen.

    He drove up about 70-80m and pulled in, half on the grass verge, half on the road, still inside. Not wishing to be subjected to the open door in my path trick I sidetracked onto the footpath and then back on the road ahead.
    He drove by me again and continued on his way.

    I had an appointment, but a couple of hours later I went to the local Garda station and reported him, licence number etc etc. Garda said all he'd due was find out who was driving the car and caution him.

    Anyone get similar treatment?

    Spitting? ffs


«134

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    So I put my foot down on the pavement and folded his spring loaded wing mirror back to get by, and it sprung back, hunky dorey.

    Why did you think you had the right to interfere with other peoples property?

    Mike.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,467 ✭✭✭h3000


    You seem to have been undertaking him which is an illegal manoeuvre. You had no right to undertake him or touch his mirror. Cyclists must follow the same rules as all other road users. That said he had no right to be abusive or threatening towards you, I can't say I would have been too happy if I was the car driver in this case either.

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,658 ✭✭✭✭Peyton Manning


    "Well, the adage was proved again, all merc drivers are w@nkers."


    Ban?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    SUV drivers are also fantastic for not leaving enough space on the left for cyclists.

    Also the other day I came across some idiot in an SUV parked in the area thats normally reserved for cyclists at a set of traffic lights.

    Come on, it was painted red and had a big picture of a bike on it!

    The fact that these people are allowed to drive such large vehicles quite frankly scares me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,055 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    tampopo wrote:
    There was plenty of space for him to leave room for cyclists. I'm fed up of weaving in and out of traffic for cyclist blocking drivers.
    Unless you are on a cycle lane, you do not have priority over another vehicle. If there was no room, you should have waited behind the car or dismounted and walked past.
    folded his spring loaded wing mirror back to get by, and it sprung back
    You had no authority to interfere with his vehicle.
    he should have left space for the cyclists, not my fault if he's too far over.
    Why? Was there a cycle lane there?
    I also asked him if he had a full licence
    Are you a Garda?
    So I spit back and got on his windscreen...... .....I went to the local Garda station and reported him
    Talk about wanting you cake and eating it also! You retaliate, then report the matter to a Garda and then post here and are expecting sympathy! :rolleyes:
    Spitting? ffs
    Isn't that what you did?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,784 ✭✭✭Dirk Gently


    Tbh an impartial person might say that you shouldn't have gone near his mirror but as a cyclist myself I can sympathize.

    I'm sick of them parking in cycle lanes, crawling along right up to the footpath and not paying attention at intersections. My hold on rationality is slipping and the day will come soon when I give in to my emotions. I sometimes think about carrying a small bar with me to scrape the sides of the yummy mummys suvs and the boy racers supped up dirt boxes. before everyone gives out to me it's just a wishful thought, I haven't actually done it................


    .......yet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    clown bag wrote:

    I'm sick of them parking in cycle lanes, crawling along right up to the footpath and not paying attention at intersections. My hold on rationality is slipping and the day will come soon when I give in to my emotions. I sometimes think about carrying a small bar with me to scrape the sides of the yummy mummys suvs and the boy racers supped up dirt boxes. before everyone gives out to me it's just a wishful thought, I haven't actually done it................


    .......yet.


    I also get tempted sometimes :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,225 ✭✭✭Ciaran500


    h3000 wrote:
    You seem to have been undertaking him which is an illegal manoeuvre.
    So a cyclist is not allowed to move down the inside of a row of cars?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭E@gle.


    Ciaran500 wrote:
    So a cyclist is not allowed to move down the inside of a row of cars?


    im not sure about this. But if im overtaking on a bike i go on the outside of them it is safer


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,467 ✭✭✭h3000


    Ciaran500 wrote:
    So a cyclist is not allowed to move down the inside of a row of cars?
    Unless the cyclist is in a cycle lane no they are not.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 717 ✭✭✭Mucco


    tampopo wrote:
    I told him he should have left space for the cyclists, not my fault if he's too far over.

    I always thought drivers should stay on the left. Why did you not overtake him on the right?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,074 ✭✭✭BendiBus


    Am I right in thinking that spitting at someone constitutes an offence of common assault? I doubt spitting back counts as self defence! You had absolutely no excuse for that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 345 ✭✭Membrane


    h3000 wrote:
    You seem to have been undertaking him which is an illegal manoeuvre.

    ROTR:
    You may overtake on the left when

    [...]

    Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane

    A car stopped can be legally overtaken on the left.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,618 ✭✭✭Civilian_Target


    TBH, overtake on the right. And learn to be a bit calmer...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,240 ✭✭✭tywy


    I always keep left when cycling. If I'm travelling faster than the traffic I'm not going to move out into the middle of the road to overtake them, I'll continue to travel close to the kerb. This is not overtaking on the inside. I'm unsure if that rule applies to cyclists in the same way it applies to cars...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    I can sympathise, and dont understand why ppl start acting like gardai here, i doubt many of us have the right to be so sanctimonious.

    Anyway, I was in a similar situation, cycling up mt anville road near near goatstown. There are two lanes at the junction, but still technically only one lane along the rest of the road. Yet drivers still take all sorts of road positions. If they are turning left, they hug the kerb about 500m from the junction, and vice versa if they are turning left. The footpath is far removed from the road, and frankly i dont cycle everywhere so i can walk with my bike half the time. Its up to the local council to do their duty and put in a much needed cycle lane there.

    But anyway, said journey led to much dangerous weaving between cars, which I dont like, instead of everyone just allowing a few feet of space near the kerb. It may not be the law, but in my book its a bit of common decency and doesnt take much effort. I await the cries of "heretic, I would have sat in line for 20 mins, or walked the 10 mins down the road". Well, sorry but I cycle for a reason.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    tampopo wrote:
    Pulled up to a junction this evening...merc pulled over to the left, way too much to the left.
    Did you the Merc overtake you first, before pulling over and stopping in front of you?

    If so, and if it caused you any inconvenience. that's illegal overtaking:
    S.I. No. 182/1997 — Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997
    10. (1) A driver shall not overtake, or attempt to overtake, if to do so would endanger, or cause inconvenience to, any other person.

    (2) A driver shall not overtake, or attempt to overtake, unless the roadway ahead of the driver—....

    ( b ) is sufficiently long and wide to permit the overtaking to be completed without danger or inconvenience to other traffic or pedestrians.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 566 ✭✭✭dalk


    TBH in situations like this where a driver pulls up along side you to shout abuse and generally "threaten" you with their car, i just pull the brakes and let them on their way. The red mist might lead them to run you off the road, and some coward using a car as a weapon will always win a fight with a push bike. Let them stew in their own high blood pressure.

    Still, moving the wing mirror was a provocative act and you shouldn't have been too surprised that the driver reacted aggressively.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    You were in the wrong from the minute you touched his car. Simple as that. You have no right to do that. The rest is escalation but you were in the wrong to start with and need to admit this first. Also going to the gardai was useless.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,441 Mod ✭✭✭✭Mr Magnolia


    @ you and the merc driver: spitting is an ultimate low.

    You shouldn't have gone near his mirror IMO, would it have been that much trouble to wait behind him, assuming he wasn't blocking a bicycle lane?
    Membrane wrote:
    ROTR:

    "[...]

    Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane "

    A car stopped can be legally overtaken on the left.

    "Traffic in the left-hand lane" This reference a left hand lane, I don't see any evidence there was a left-hand lane here so this doesn't apply, it would only apply to a dual-carriage way/motorway type road or assumably if there was a cycle lane.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,467 ✭✭✭h3000


    Membrane wrote:
    ROTR:



    A car stopped can be legally overtaken on the left.

    Not if there is no lane to the left of the car, which in this case there was not there was a footpath which is also illegal to cycle on as the op did.

    EDIT: Mr Magnolia beat me to it.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,993 ✭✭✭Johnny Storm


    tampopo wrote:
    ...all merc drivers are w@nkers.....
    That's just wrong.
    It's actually BMW drivers. ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭Ghost Rider


    As a cyclist, I sympathise with the OP, even though he/she was clearly in the wrong to touch the guy's car.

    I also find it interesting that quite a few respondents on this thread seem to have gone out of their way (as in, they don't usually post on this forum) to make self-righteous pronouncements without, apparently, making any effort whatsoever to understand the situation of cyclists in this country.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,441 Mod ✭✭✭✭Mr Magnolia


    As a cyclist, I sympathise with the OP, even though he/she was clearly in the wrong to touch the guy's car.

    I also find it interesting that quite a few respondents on this thread seem to have gone out of their way (as in, they don't usually post on this forum) to make self-righteous pronouncements without, apparently, making any effort whatsoever to understand the situation of cyclists in this country.

    I don't know if you're refering to me. Can you please expand on 'the situation' cyclists find themselves in, in this country. I realise that they have a hard time but they are road users like the rest of us, surely they can't be allowed to take the law into their own hands under any circumstances, the same legal avenues are open to cyclists as every other road user.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,618 ✭✭✭Civilian_Target


    the same legal avenues are open to cyclists as every other road user.

    That's true but cyclists are significantly more likely to be flattened than any other category of road user and thus more care and protection is really required.

    Fact is, there's a lot of inconsiderate driving out there, some of it downright dangerous to cyclists but it's rarely illegal, and roadgoing cyclists are afforded very little protection under the law.
    Having seen people die on the road, I'm loathe to rush anywhere on my bike. I cycle quickly, sure, but I wouldn't advocate anyone pushing past traffic. A much better way to get past is wait until the opposite lane is clear and pass on the right in one large arc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Morgan


    Regarding the comments above that it's illegal to pass stationary traffic on the inside while on a bike, page 158 of the new rules of the road state:
    When cycling alongside traffic stopped in line, be aware of gaps in the
    traffic to allow other vehicles to turn across the stationary lane. The view
    of the car that is turning may be blocked due to the traffic build-up.

    http://www.rsa.ie/Home/upload/File/ROTR_2007.pdf

    This infers that cycling up the inside is permitted, but riders should be cautious while doing it.

    I totally agree that spitting by both of them is out of order - as was bending back the guys mirror - as if he couldn't get past without doing that...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 345 ✭✭Membrane


    "Traffic in the left-hand lane" This reference a left hand lane, I don't see any evidence there was a left-hand lane here so this doesn't apply, it would only apply to a dual-carriage way/motorway type road or assumably if there was a cycle lane.

    Afaics cyclists are allowed to overtake on the left. Unfortunately the 2007 revised ROTR still leave a lot to be desired as it contains no explicit text on this issue, and I don't have the time to trawl though the actual legislation. But the following ROTR extract suggest that this is the case:
    Your position on the road

    Make sure you drive your vehicle far enough to the left to allow traffic to safely pass or overtake on the right but not so far to the left that you are driving on a cycle lane or blocking or endangering cyclists or pedestrians.

    If cyclists are not allowed to overtake on the left, there would be no reason to state that drivers ought not to take a position so far to the left that they block cyclists.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭depadz


    dodgyme wrote:
    You were in the wrong from the minute you touched his car. Simple as that. You have no right to do that. The rest is escalation but you were in the wrong to start with and need to admit this first. Also going to the gardai was useless.


    while i probably wouldn't do what the OP did with mirror, i often have to give a car a bang to let them know that I am there - usually when they decide to change lane or pass a car turning right on its inside. While I'm sure the driver doesn't like it, I'm sure its preferable to them (and definitely to me) to running me down.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    The whole concept of cyclists v's pedestrians v's motorists is silly in alot of ways. People are either stupid or sensible. They are either observant and careful or reckless and ignorant or aggressive. I cycle in the afternoon and drive in the morning, I walk quite alot also. And if I hadnt moved jobs I would have been a motorcyclists. So I fit into almost every catagory. People are either good at driving or cycling or bad at either one. However saying that I think that people who do all modes have a tendency to better at general observance and understanding the trials of each mode of transport. Adding to that is the tendency that the bigger the car one has the less likely one is find that understanding. E.G. How many Merc drivers cycle? I would say alot less then someone driving a 1.0 litre car. Generally people who cycle are more environmental and wouldnt buy an SUV or Bmw.? Hence they will be in a car which is smaller and less of a threat to cyclists etc. Also people in small cars may have been cycling more before they bought the car. In 15 yrs time they might drive a merc and have forgotten what it was like to be nearly mowed down by a yummy mummy.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭Ghost Rider


    In saying cyclists have a "hard time", you've already acknowledged my point, after a fashion. But I realise you're looking for more detail, so let me make a few points.

    1. In the absence of a cycle lane, cyclists always have, and always will, travel along the left of the lane. If the traffic is going particularly slowly, that is naturally where they will pass cars. You can call that overtaking but I believe that term is misleading. I also think citing the law on overtaking is irrelevant. Here's why...

    I'm sure I speak for all cyclists when I say it'd be great if we had our own lanes, and lanes as wide as the ones cars require - but we don't and we try to work with that. Motorists should be thankful that we do not, in fact, cycle in the centre of the lane at all times, instead electing to allow traffic to pass by keeping left. This is not something we do out of a sense of martyrdom; it is something we do because we believe in considerate road usage. It is, you could say, the result of an unwritten rule, one which most cyclists are good at observing.

    By the same token, however, we expect motorists to observe another unwritten rule i.e. to provide enough space on the left, where it is possible to do so, to allow cyclists to pass when the traffic stationary or slow. Not doing so amounts to inconsiderate road usage. (Again, the law on overtaking seems irrelevant; we're talking about passing, which is often a matter of judgement, not the letter of the law.)

    2. The very idea that all road users are "equal" is simplistic and legalistic. In other words, it is based on an adherence to the letter of the law rather than on an attempt to understand the broader context (or "spirit") of the law. As I see it, the main reason many cyclists have a more or less constant beef with motorists is that they are all too aware that the rules themselves are necessitated by problems caused by motorists (e.g. congestion; fatal crashes), not problems caused by cyclists. That is why it often seems unfair to expect cyclists to observe these rules literally. As in the example given above, some rules are unwritten. In that respect, these rules are closer to an ethical code or a kind of etiquette. This is as it should be, in my view.

    3. The law is not the be-all-and-end-all of arguments in relation to road usage. The law is not universal or transcendent of history: specific laws arise in specific historic circumstances and, often, to reflect the interests of a certain group (in this case, motorists). The belief that the law is inherently fair has no ground whatsoever, which is why appeals purely to the law to determine what is just or fair are fallacious.

    As I said, the original poster was wrong to touch the driver's car. What shocked me was the number of responses which were far more concerned with the supposed attack on the driver's property (itself a questionable charge since no damage was done) than they were with, say, the total lack of consideration shown by the motorist in the first instance - or, to put it another way, his breaking of an unwritten rule vis-a-vis cyclists.

    This worries me because it suggests that some people seem quite lacking in that one virtue that is essential to an intelligent (i.e. non-legalistic) approach to road usage: empathy.
    I don't know if you're refering to me. Can you please expand on 'the situation' cyclists find themselves in, in this country. I realise that they have a hard time but they are road users like the rest of us, surely they can't be allowed to take the law into their own hands under any circumstances, the same legal avenues are open to cyclists as every other road user.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,199 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    I cycle and drive and notice that when you haven’t cycled for a short while how quickly you forget about cyclists. For people who just drive- they probably don’t even consider cyclists when driving, turning, stoping at lights etc.

    I get very annoyed and angry when cycling and someone has blocked the inside left when they don’t need to be so close to the curb. Most drivers do it without even thinking.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭Ghost Rider


    It really does happen every day. What's irritating is that, most of the time, it would be equally easy for them to have left space for cyclists to pass. This gets properly annoying when you look in the window and realise the driver is having great crack listening to his/her radio.
    dinneenp wrote:
    I cycle and drive and notice that when you haven’t cycled for a short while how quickly you forget about cyclists. For people who just drive- they probably don’t even consider cyclists when driving, turning, stoping at lights etc.

    I get very annoyed and angry when cycling and someone has blocked the inside left when they don’t need to be so close to the curb. Most drivers do it without even thinking.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    Ghost rider is right that judgement is the primary facet needed. However although he agrees the OP was wrong to touch the car of the driver he wants to emphasise the difficulties that cyclists have. My opinion is that if the OP messed around with the drivers mirror which often snap back into place he was making a critical error of judgement and showing stupidity. With this kind of judgement I am glad the OP is not a motorist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭Ghost Rider


    Fair point.
    dodgyme wrote:
    Ghost rider is right that judgement is the primary facet needed. However although he agrees the OP was wrong to touch the car of the driver he wants to emphasise the difficulties that cyclists have. My opinion is that if the OP messed around with the drivers mirror which often snap back into place he was making a critical error of judgement and showing stupidity. With this kind of judgement I am glad the OP is not a motorist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,441 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    He shouldn't have did what he did... but you started it by touching his car....


    A simple rule , if you don't want to be spat at or punched don't touch peoples cars....


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 741 ✭✭✭michaelanthony


    tampopo wrote:
    Well, the adage was proved again, all merc drivers are w@nkers.

    Pulled up to a junction this evening...merc pulled over to the left, way too much to the left. There was plenty of space for him to leave room for cyclists. I'm fed up of weaving in and out of traffic for cyclist blocking drivers. So I put my foot down on the pavement and folded his spring loaded wing mirror back to get by, and it sprung back, hunky dorey.

    I took up a position in front of the merc and waited for the lights to change. Much beeping of horn and shouting like a rabid baboon from merc driver.

    The lights changed and through the junction the merc driver continues to shout abuse at me through the open passenger side window. "You touch my car again and I'l ff'ing kill ya" type of thing. I told him he should have left space for the cyclists, not my fault if he's too far over. I also asked him if he had a full licence. The abuse from him continued, then he went to ram me, run me off the road. He wanted to get out up ahead and physically attack me, but he settled for spitting at me through the open window. So I spit back and got on his windscreen.

    He drove up about 70-80m and pulled in, half on the grass verge, half on the road, still inside. Not wishing to be subjected to the open door in my path trick I sidetracked onto the footpath and then back on the road ahead.
    He drove by me again and continued on his way.

    I had an appointment, but a couple of hours later I went to the local Garda station and reported him, licence number etc etc. Garda said all he'd due was find out who was driving the car and caution him.

    Anyone get similar treatment?

    Spitting? ffs

    That is unbelievable that you moved the mirror on someones car. Why did you have to move to the top of the queue. Why could you not wait in line like the rest of the traffic. That will teach you not to touch someones car again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    dinneenp wrote:
    I get very annoyed and angry when cycling and someone has blocked the inside left when they don’t need to be so close to the curb. Most drivers do it without even thinking.

    The driving instructors I have had always force you close to the left curb. Apparently it is the way to drive to get the test. The reasoning is to avoid proximity to oncoming traffic in the opposite direction. It wrecks your car also since most of the edges of road in this country are in bits.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Morgan


    Why did you have to move to the top of the queue. Why could you not wait in line like the rest of the traffic.

    Because he was riding a bicycle. Waiting back in a line of traffic would be absurd.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭Ghost Rider


    So moving the mirror was wrong, but don't you think you're being a bit one-sided?

    And do really you think cyclists should be prevented from moving up on the left, even though that is where they are normally expected to cycle?

    Would you prefer it if cyclists always cycled in the middle of the lane, rather than keeping left for the benefit of motorists?

    Do you really think bikes are "traffic" in precisely the same way that cars, vans and trucks are? If not, why should cyclists have to deal unquestioningly with the appalling congestion caused by motorists?
    That is unbelievable that you moved the mirror on someones car. Why did you have to move to the top of the queue. Why could you not wait in line like the rest of the traffic. That will teach you not to touch someones car again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,618 ✭✭✭Civilian_Target


    Children, children, can't you see? They're both wrong


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭Ghost Rider


    Sorry, Da.
    Children, children, can't you see? They're both wrong


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,618 ✭✭✭Civilian_Target


    That's OK son. Some day they'll grow up and won't be able to cycle any more :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    Children, children, can't you see? They're both wrong
    Please dont hit me da, no not the face.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭beans


    A simple rule , if you don't want to be spat at or punched don't touch peoples cars....

    Instant karma, get what you give, go around come around, do unto others etc. It's the oldest lesson in the book.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    beans wrote:
    Instant karma, get what you give, go around come around, do unto others etc. It's the oldest lesson in the book.
    Oh ya I missed the section in 'the rules of the road' called 'oldest lessons'?
    and I thought 'Instant Car Ma' is something a spoilt southsider gets for his 18th birthday


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭stooge


    That is unbelievable that you moved the mirror on someones car. Why did you have to move to the top of the queue. Why could you not wait in line like the rest of the traffic. That will teach you not to touch someones car again.

    I would rather someone moved my mirror than cycle into it and break it. thats why the mirrors were made that way.Sounds like the merc man was a bit of a cock alright, but theres no excuse for spitting back at him.

    As a driver I can say I'm guilty of not leaving enough space between the kerb for cyclists. As an infreqent cyclist I can also say that its really annoying when this happens.

    Bit more consideration is needed by everyone -but as long as there are arrogant arseholes in big cars and suv's and the odd ignorant cyclist there will always be these arguments


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,441 Mod ✭✭✭✭Mr Magnolia


    This is addressed to me so I will respond in fashion.

    I don't believe I ever implied that all road users were equal, I said "they (referring to cyclists) can't be allowed to take the law into their own hands under any circumstances, the same legal avenues are open to cyclists as every other road user"



    1. In the absence of a cycle lane, cyclists always have, and always will, travel along the left of the lane. If the traffic is going particularly slowly, that is naturally where they will pass cars.
    Only where it is safe to do so. There wasn't room to do so in this instance, you've stated that the OP shouldn't have touched the motorist's mirror and I agree, see my 1st post.
    Motorists should be thankful that we do not, in fact, cycle in the centre of the lane at all times, instead electing to allow traffic to pass by keeping left. This is not something we do out of a sense of martyrdom; it is something we do because we believe in considerate road usage. It is, you could say, the result of an unwritten rule, one which most cyclists are good at observing.
    This I applaud and I realize most cyclist's (not all in my experience) will keep left when it's safe to do so.
    By the same token, however, we expect motorists to observe another unwritten rule i.e. to provide enough space on the left, where it is possible to do so, to allow cyclists to pass when the traffic stationary or slow. Not doing so amounts to inconsiderate road usage. (Again, the law on overtaking seems irrelevant; we're talking about passing, which is often a matter of judgement, not the letter of the law.)
    Agree, in this instance we don't know if it was safe/possible to leave that room, so this is really here-say(spl?).
    2. The very idea that all road users are "equal" is simplistic and legalistic. In other words, it is based on an adherence to the letter of the law rather than on an attempt to understand the broader context (or "spirit") of the law. As I see it, the main reason many cyclists have a more or less constant beef with motorists is that they are all too aware that the rules themselves are necessitated by problems caused by motorists (e.g. congestion; fatal crashes), not problems caused by cyclists. That is why it often seems unfair to expect cyclists to observe these rules literally. As in the example given above, some rules are unwritten. In that respect, these rules are closer to an ethical code or a kind of etiquette. This is as it should be, in my view.
    Again, as above, I don't believe I ever implied that all road users were equal, I said "they (referring to cyclists) can't be allowed to take the law into their own hands under any circumstances, the same legal avenues are open to cyclists as every other road user" so a mute point really.
    3. The law is not the be-all-and-end-all of arguments in relation to road usage. The law is not universal or transcendent of history: specific laws arise in specific historic circumstances and, often, to reflect the interests of a certain group (in this case, motorists). The belief that the law is inherently fair has no ground whatsoever, which is why appeals purely to the law to determine what is just or fair are fallacious..
    As above.
    As I said, the original poster was wrong to touch the driver's car. What shocked me was the number of responses which were far more concerned with the supposed attack on the driver's property (itself a questionable charge since no damage was done)
    You agree though that the motorist's property should not have been touched. I didn't express 'shock', I simply stated that IMO it shouldn't have been done and you agreed.
    than they were with, say, the total lack of consideration shown by the motorist in the first instance - or, to put it another way, his breaking of an unwritten rule vis-a-vis cyclists.
    Again as above, we don't know if it was safe to apply your unwritten rule and if it was the driver may not have been actively aware of the cyclist's presence.
    This worries me because it suggests that some people seem quite lacking in that one virtue that is essential to an intelligent (i.e. non-legalistic) approach to road usage: empathy.

    There will always be a proportionate number of cyclists and motorist's that show a total disregard for other road-users, it's a fact of life; simple as. Education is the key.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭beans


    I thought 'Instant Car Ma' is something a spoilt southsider gets for his 18th birthday

    Superb!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,199 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    According to the rules of the road/the law cyclists are allowed to cycle two people abreast. But in real life no-one does this on a busy road.
    People have to be considerate and the driver should leave space.

    I sometimes stop if someone has blocked the left side and make a gesture at them (hands in air etc.) or if their window is open ask them why they are blocking.
    Like with a stranger- touching is a no-no without permission.....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭Ghost Rider


    It was directed at a perceived attitude, not you alone. It was you who asked me to explain myself, is all.
    This is addressed to me so I will respond in fashion.


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