Post & Telegraphs (P&T)

r3nu4l

Does anyone here remember the orange and white livery of P&T? One of my earliest memories is of a Renault 4 P&T van parked outside the Health clinic in Lucan Village on a sunny summer day.

Anyone got a photo of one? Amazing the things you can remember from your childhood!

I also remember the day we got a P&T telephone in our house! It was so cool, if I wanted to talk to my friend (who got one a month after!) I didn't have to make a ten minute walk, I could just pick up the phone, dial the rotary numbers and talk to him in seconds! I still remember my parents supervising my first telephone call, in case I somehow managed to break the phone!

byte

Ah I vaguely remember the ol' Renault 4 postvan's alright. I can't find any on Google Image search, though I did come across a P&T Lorry.

dlofnep

This thread is really retro

aidan_dunne

Yeah, I well remember the old orange and white P+T vans and lorries, mainly because an uncle of mine worked for the P+T. He joined not long before it was renamed Telecom Eireann and, believe it or not, he's still there to this day as a contract worker for eircom!

Funnily enough, I saw one of those old Renault 4 vans about a year or so ago driving around still in the old orange livery with the faint outline of the P+T logo on it. The owner must have took off the black decal lettering but you could still the faint outline of where it had been. Couldn't believe my eyes when I saw it, the milage on the clock must have gone around at least twice at this stage I'd say!

Funny how so many of those old Renault 4 vans were knocking around up until a few years ago when old age must have gotten to them. As well as the old orange ex-P+T ones, you'd see loads of the old green ex-An Post ones and the odd blue and white ex-Telecom Eireann one still being driven around by members of the public who must have bought them when they were eventually decommissioned from service, so to speak, by the various state bodies and sold off or whatever.

Seems like all those state companies (P+T, An Post, Telecom Eireann, C.I.E.) used Renault 4 vans at some stage. Did the government have some sort of deal with Renault at the time or something?

Wishbone Ash

There's a pic posted in several different forums now and again of two Gardaí standing beside their Renault 4 patrol car.

My father still refers to Eircom as "The P'n'T"!

DMC

I want a Renault 4 van in the P&T livery.

That is all.

I also think, logo wise, the P&T logo stands the test of time. Its a pure classic, and replaced by the horrendous Telecom Éireann logo...

If the Government kept Renault in business with Renault 4 vans, how the hell did Bill Cullen get the franchise for nothing?

Owen

I remember the P&T well, and have relatives who still refer to Eircom as the P&T. What I vividly remember was our Rotary Phone, and wondering what idiot decided 999 would be the emergency number of choice. Picture this, your house is on fire ... pick up the receiver, wait for the dial tone, then try to dial the first 9 ....
Whuuuuuuuum taka taka taka taka taka taka taka taka taka

Then the second one ...
Whuuuuuuuum taka taka taka taka taka taka taka taka taka

Then the third one ... oops, dialed an 8
Whuuuuuuuum taka taka taka taka taka taka taka taka

Start all over again, and by the time you get through, your house is burned down.

kelle

In what year did P&T become Telecom Eireann? We stayed in a luxury hotal recently for a family wedding. Obviously I was in the new part, but my poor brother got a dingy single room in which must have been part of the original building, as it had a P&T socket for the room phone.

r3nu4l

kelle wrote:

In what year did P&T become Telecom Eireann?

I'm pretty sure it was either 1983 or 1984. Either way, An Post was created at the same time.

I agree with DMC, the logo has stood the test of time! Simple but effective. As for Bill Cullen getting Renault for nothing, I believe it was actually £1, a substantially greater amount than nothing

According to his biography, he actually had to raise £18 million to cover the debts at Renault Ireland and only when he had agreed to pay off the debts did the owner agree to sell it for £1

earwicker

Cheers, Byte. That picture gave me an unreasonable amount of happy.

UrbanFox

They used to be known on Hall's Pictorial Weekly [early RTE satire for those too young to know] as the Department of Gate Posts and Telegraph Poles.

It BeeMee

byte wrote:

Ah I vaguely remember the ol' Renault 4 postvan's alright. I can't find any on Google Image search, though I did come across a P&T Lorry.

Bit of trivia: the code on the side of the door? The last 2 digits represented the year of the van/lorry.
What year is that Bedford? 75?76?

crosstownk

ned78 wrote:

I remember the P&T well, and have relatives who still refer to Eircom as the P&T. What I vividly remember was our Rotary Phone, and wondering what idiot decided 999 would be the emergency number of choice. Picture this, your house is on fire ... pick up the receiver, wait for the dial tone, then try to dial the first 9 ....
Whuuuuuuuum taka taka taka taka taka taka taka taka taka

Then the second one ...
Whuuuuuuuum taka taka taka taka taka taka taka taka taka

Then the third one ... oops, dialed an 8
Whuuuuuuuum taka taka taka taka taka taka taka taka

Start all over again, and by the time you get through, your house is burned down.

You mean one like my old phone..............



Looks great and the sound of real bells is hard to beat - but real cumbersome when dialling mobile numbers!

TheDriver

A mate bought one of those R4F4(the van version of the r4) after telelcom eircom had it (not p and t though) and was gas inside it with the gear stick in the dash. the vans used to have handles above the front bumper and you could open a flap over the back door to allow small poles to be put into the back and sticking out while you couldn't wind down the front windows, only slide them from side to side. Gorgeous retro yokes. Pity lots of them had the front end cut off and made trailers from the back end.


Used to hate having those dial phones because you couldn't dial into competitions on the telly quickly as the touchdial competitors!

Owen

crosstownk wrote:

You mean one like my old phone..............

I actually had a little box you'd hold up to the mike, with a keypad, and it would sent the DTMF tones down the line. I also had another box which could send 2600 Hz down the line - now that was the fun one. Those who know what that tone was for, I bet you were up to all sorts of naughtiness in your adolescent years, eh?

Mrs. MacGyver

We've an old A/B P&T black pay phone in our hall as the house used to be divided into flats in the 70's , it's so class. I remember those orange vans as the technical repair centre was just outside our village. My biggest thrill in the early 80's was ringing my dad in wrk through the operator in the post office. Aaahhh the memories!

Dudess

Man, your memories are second to none. I was born in 1978 - similar age to a lot of you guys, and I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about!

TheDriver

We had a cream version of the said phone. Do any of ye remember the payphones with the A and B buttons, i think to do with the distances?? Gas stuff altogether!

byte

I can very vaguely recall the A/B payphones, in those old phoneboxes with all the tiny windows, and a leather strap on the door.

is_that_so

A/B payphones :rolleyes: . In the West some didn't even have a dial on them. You picked it up and the operator did the ole "please insert ..... for the next three minutes".
IIRC there was also some kind of tapping technique you could use to dial a number for free. We also had a phone on the wall at home for years.

boneless

kelle wrote:

In what year did P&T become Telecom Eireann? We stayed in a luxury hotal recently for a family wedding. Obviously I was in the new part, but my poor brother got a dingy single room in which must have been part of the original building, as it had a P&T socket for the room phone.

Dept. P+T ceased to exist on New Years Day 1984. I remember it well: I was a Junior Postperson and one of the last to enter under the Civil Service mandate, (I started in June '83).

tampopo

Still have a rotary phone, just like the one in Kramer v Kramer...a pain when dialing eircom, the esb, ntl etc. Someone on rte radio said to cough at the options, would bring you to an operator!

When I was younger, my older siblings would dial the A/B phone from Wexford up to Dublin for their leaving cert results. High drama at the time.

Conways pub on Parnell sq opposite the Rotunda, has the A/B phone from The Snapper film. Couple of still photos from the filming on the wall by the defunct phone.

Owen

is_that_so wrote:

IIRC there was also some kind of tapping technique you could use to dial a number for free. We also had a phone on the wall at home for years.

Yup, you could tap the receiver to emulate the pulse that the rotary dial would generate. Pain in the ass though. I remember when the first gen cool phones came out, you know the one, white, blue buttons, and an LCD display, more like a house phone than a payphone, and took the 20 pence coins. If you stuck your watch strap down, and to the left, the phone would jam, then typing **** #### 0000 would give you 'freecall' on the display, and you could dial whomever you chose.

Zebra3

Anyone remember the phone numbers changing in 79 or 80?

And I don't just mean an extra number, but six different numbers-in Dublin anyway.

byte

Hehe, remember that alright We used to use Wrigleys wrappers for locking the phone.

I remember when the first gen cool phones came out, you know the one, white, blue buttons, and an LCD display, more like a house phone than a payphone, and took the 20 pence coins. If you stuck your watch strap down, and to the left, the phone would jam, then typing **** #### 0000 would give you 'freecall' on the display, and you could dial whomever you chose.

Hagar

P+T wasn't the original logo.
It was P7T with the as a dropped case letter.
"7" was the equivalent in Irish for & = "agus".

Victor

r3nu4l wrote:

I agree with DMC, the logo has stood the test of time! Simple but effective. As for Bill Cullen getting Renault for nothing, I believe it was actually £1, a substantially greater amount than nothing

According to his biography, he actually had to raise £18 million to cover the debts at Renault Ireland and only when he had agreed to pay off the debts did the owner agree to sell it for £1

I think he's just after loosing the franchise.

ned78 wrote:

I remember the P&T well, and have relatives who still refer to Eircom as the P&T. What I vividly remember was our Rotary Phone, and wondering what idiot decided 999 would be the emergency number of choice.

It was done for simplicity of the mechanics of the phone. Mechanically dialling 000 would have been easier, but would have been problematic for the phone system, so they went with 999.

Zebra3 wrote:

Anyone remember the phone numbers changing in 79 or 80?And I don't just mean an extra number, but six different numbers-in Dublin anyway.

I don't remember this, what happened?

Hagar wrote:

P+T wasn't the original logo.
It was P7T with the as a dropped case letter.
"7" was the equivalent in Irish for & = "agus".

If you look at phone boxes, post boxes and manhole covers you can see the different generations of logo.

Zebra3

Victor wrote:

I don't remember this, what happened?

Not sure if it was a nationwide thing, but all the telephone numbers in the Dublin area were changed for some reason. I can just remember being a kid and being told we were getting a new number so I had to learn that off by heart. Maybe someone older can explain why it happened?

billy the squid

Jebus, the white and orange PT vans were the boogie man for any pirate radio operator in those days.

As for telephone numbers, was going to joseph's in Drumcondra in 1982 and they had a 6 digit number, while we had a five digit number at home.

Joseph's number (and it is in the public domain on their site) was 373635,

It seems fortuitous that the 7th number to be added would be an 8 given their previous number.

Victor

billy the squid wrote:

As for telephone numbers, was going to joseph's in Drumcondra in 1982 and they had a 6 digit number, while we had a five digit number at home.

Actually, I recollect numbers being changed around then. I presume exchanges were restructured at some point with the increasing number of customers and the implementation of technology.

Terrontress

Alot of 999 was to do with the ability to say it and remember it, wasn't it?

I was reading somewhere that German and French people cannot get their heads around saying a number three times so the Germans would have to say neunhundert neunundneunzig or the French neuf cent quatre vingt dix-neuf.

As a result, they came up with 112 which is hundert zwolf in German or cent douze in French.

Hagar

I read somewhere that 999 was chosen as on a rotary dial phone the number "9" was the second furthest around and took a lot of effort to dial thus eliminating accidentally dialling it three times in a row.



I remember a fire safety ad on tv as a child instructing how to dial 999 in a smoke filled room. It went something like "locate the dial with you right hand allowing your index and middle finger to occupy tha last two holes. Remove your middle finger from the hold and dial three times with your index finger."

The 112 on the other hand is quicker to dial. The continentals may have figured that the odd false alarm was better than a missed alarm call.

On digital phones / push button it makes no difference

Wishbone Ash

Victor wrote:

If you look at phone boxes, post boxes and manhole covers you can see the different generations of logo.

There are lots of Queen Victoria and King Edward British postboxes still in use. Although painted green the VR and ER are still there. I'm always amazed that many people never notice such things!

Hagar wrote:

I remember a fire safety ad on tv as a child instructing how to dial 999 in a smoke filled room. It went something like "locate the dial with you right hand allowing your index and middle finger to occupy tha last two holes. Remove your middle finger from the hold and dial three times with your index finger."

No offence Hagar but that seems just absurd! Two lungfuls of smoke are enough to kill. Why on earth would someone be trying to telephone the emergency services from a smoke filled room? Getting out should be the first priority!

Owen

Wishbone Ash wrote:

There are lots of Queen Victoria and King Edward British postboxes still in use. Although painted green the VR and ER are still there. I'm always amazed that many people never notice such things!

There's one on Patrick's Hill in Cork, where it meets Wellington Road. And no one ever notices the difference in Logos.

Hagar

Wishbone Ash wrote:

No offence Hagar but that seems just absurd!

Non taken. How long is it since the Govt distributed Iodine tablets as part of their anti-nuclear policy? The defence rests your Honour.

UrbanFox

The old telephone system was great for getting your sister out of the bathroom.

If you dialled 17, waited a few seconds and put the receiver back the phone would ring just like a normal incoming call. That used to get the wagon out of the bathroom for fear of missing one of those all important hair, makeup and boyfriend conference calls.

When she picked up the phone all she would hear would be a whine accompanied by the sound of the bathroom door closing behind her. Tee.. hee... as Denis the Menace used to say

Owen

UrbanFox wrote:

If you dialled 17, waited a few seconds and put the receiver back the phone would ring just like a normal incoming call.

Genius! I remember doing that, but had forgotten until you brought it up.

zippo22

At the time of decimalisation it was 2 New Pence for a local call on the A/B public phones. The 2 New Penny coin was the exact same size as the old ha'penny coin and there were a lot of them still around.

byte

byte wrote:

Ah I vaguely remember the ol' Renault 4 postvan's alright. I can't find any on Google Image search, though I did come across a P&T Lorry.

As the URL to the image might suggest, that very vehicle is preserved in the National Transport Museum in Howth. I was there a couple of months back and there she was!
My first memory of telephones was my grandmother, she had one installed in 1983 complete with rotary dial. The socket on the wall still has the P+T logo on it even today and the line is now being used for DSL, albeit with pretty high line attenuation. Seems to still work fine though.

jos28

Anyone know if you can get die cast models of the old P7T vans ?

Sir Graball

Ha Ha! This is great!

I worked with P7T /Telecom Eireann/Eircom from 1980 to 2006 as a technician. The orange Bedford was known as a 'Gang Truck'. 5 and 7 man gangs used them. They were originally green ( army ref) but apparently they were too easy to hide in country areas so they decided to make them orange so they'd be more visible. There was a section behind the cab called the 'cubby' where the gang sat and 'stuck on the tea'. The front was reserved for the Foreman, Leading Hand and the Official Driver.
Commers, Dodges and Renaults were for two/three man and single units. We referred to the Renaults as 4L's. I had to do my driving test in a 4L,I remember it had a column gear change.
Someone posted about the black and cream rotary dial phones. I remember subscribers had to pay extra for the cream version.
Memories!!

looksee

I do remember that we had to wait 4 years to get our phone installed, that was fairly typical at the time and we only got one then because the government pulled out all the stops to catch up on the backlog.

Wishbone Ash

Sir Graball wrote:

We referred to the Renaults as 4L's. I had to do my driving test in a 4L,I remember it had a column gear change

It wasn't really a column mounted (as in steering column) but more of a dash mounted type, if I recall correctly.

Hagar

4L was a model designation in the Renault 4 range. It was not quite accurate as the van was offically the "Fourgonette".

See them here in all their glory.

There are still many of them driving about here in the south of France. The dry weather is a bit kinder to the bodywork. Some have had the bodywork cut back to pick-up style and look quite good.

The gear stick arrangement was typically French and was also found on other cars notably the Citroen 2CV.

beechersbrook

The P&T truck shown here is a Bedford TK gang truck, fleet number 295 E 79 (or maybe 297 E 79?). This finished its days in Cork as a driver training truck. It was donated by Telecom Eireann to the National Transport museum in Howth. I hand painted and refurbished this truck, prior to the handover, at the company's garage in Farranree, Cork. To answer It BeeMee's question, this also referred to the year of registration, 1979. Up to the split to Telecom Eireann and An Post in 1984, a seperate fleet numbering system was in place, where the "E" stood for engineering (telephones) and "P" was for postal. Prior to 1979, the year wasn't used for the fleet numbers e.g. A111 would have been an engineering vehicle whereas 111A would have been postal. These numbering systems (A-Z) were continued by Telecom Eireann/eircom and An Post.

ardmacha

It was done for simplicity of the mechanics of the phone. Mechanically dialling 000 would have been easier, but would have been problematic for the phone system, so they went with 999.

999 originated in the UK, where 0 was used for the Operator. 9 was used as part of short codes for main exchanges anyway, so on a main exchange you could get emergency by dialling 99.

Phone boxes had special dials which meant that 9 and 0 were free. This meant that if you were tapping a number like 309, you only had to tap the 2, then you could dial the other digits, which was useful as tapping 9 would probably lead to an error. Not quite sure how this worked in Ireland, which came into this arrangement later. Interested to know.

There's one on Patrick's Hill in Cork, where it meets Wellington Road. And no one ever notices the difference in Logos.

There are also rare Saorstat Eireann postboxes.

C.K Dexter Haven

Here's half a P&T van, early 80s on the Green:

whisky_galore

1010174_10151407878170518_429313917_n.jpg

This P&T item had a close shave with a skip!

Capt'n Midnight

Gosub

Boy does this thread roll back the years! I started in the P7T in 1973, just as the new orange and white vans were being introduced into the fleet. My first van when I was made an "official driver" in 1974 was a VW T1 transporter split-screen, fleet number K20. It was fantastic!

I remember the very long wait for phones back in the bad old days of lead cables with paper insulation over the copper pairs. Only after Telecom Eireann was formed in 1984 did serious network upgrading start. Up to that time most of the work was devoted to keeping up with the maintenance of a creaking network.

As an aside, I remember attending a management seminar in Dublin. At the time BT were rolling out fiber to customer premises. One attendee asked a senior manager what the plans were to compete with this. I nearly fell out of my seat when the (very) senior manager answered "There is no need to compete. Who wants 2 meg broadband in their home?" Not long after this, the manager was shifted sideways to the projects wilderness.

darkdubh

C.K Dexter Haven wrote: »

Here's half a P&T van, early 80s on the Green:

I'm just about old enough to remember the P T logo and the orange and white vans though of the latter it was more from seeing decommisioned ones sitting in yards.I remember seeing the old Renault 4 post office van that was used in War Of The Buttons sitting in a lot in Skibbereen about 20 years ago I wonder what became of it.