Irish soldiers in WW1

jos28

Just wondering if anyone would know where my Grandfather might have been sent to during WW1. He died before I was born and there is no-one left in the family that knew a lot about him. He joined up with his brother in June 1915. I searched on the National Archives website and found that he joined the Royal Engineers. The details listed state his rank was 'sapper'. He had 2 medals. looks like 'victory RE/101B and Star RE/22B. Theatre of war served in (1). I contacted National Archives but according to them, there is only a 40% chance of finding his full record.
Apparently, like many others, he never spoke about this time in his life. I would love to have some idea where he went and what he did during WW1.

Hard Larry

Try this site mate it might help

http://www.cwgc.org/

SpitfireIV

jos28 wrote:

The details listed state his rank was 'sapper'. He had 2 medals. looks like 'victory RE/101B and Star RE/22B. Theatre of war served in (1)

I found that strange that he has only 2 medals! I would imagine he should have had three, serving from 1915 he would have been entitled to the medals pictured below:



Those are the: 1914/1915 Star
British War Medal
Victory Medal

Otherwise known as 'Pip, Squeek and Wilfred'

You have only been given info that he recieved the 'star' (ie 14/15 star) and 'Vicrtory' (ie the Victory medal). He was however entitled to the War Medal as he served in the armed forces during WW1, that was the basic requirment. So thats something you should look into too, if he deserves another medal then go get it!


Information on Medals and Army Service Records:
Head of Research Department, Public Records Office,
Ruskin Avenue, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU

jos28

My sister has his medals. I recognize the two on the right. Love to think he might be entitled to another one.

SpitfireIV

jos28 wrote:

My sister has his medals. I recognize the two on the right. Love to think he might be entitled to another one.

If you recognise the two on the right, the War Medal and Victory, and your grandad is listed as having the 'star', then it seems that he was awarded all three, just that the 1914/15 star has been mislayed. I find it strange though that the War Medal is not listed on his service record.

Mick86

He had to have served in a theatre of war before 31st Dec 1915 to qualify for the 1914-15 Star. Service at home does not count.

Try a query on the Great War Forum DB.

jos28 wrote:

The details listed state his rank was 'sapper'. He had 2 medals. looks like 'victory RE/101B and Star RE/22B. Theatre of war served in (1). I contacted National Archives but according to them, there is only a 40% chance of finding his full record.

When you say the details listed, do you mean his service number which is stamped on the rim of the two medals.

Fratton Fred

Which National Archives did you try, the Irish one or the UK one? I found my Grandfathers service record (which was post WW1) on http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Maccattack

I had some trouble finding out about my grandfather until i contacted a proffessional searcher.

there are loads of people who sit in the archives office in the uk who will search for you. not too expensive either.

Fratton Fred

by the way, have you read "A Long Long Way" by Sebastian Barry. It is a good book and whilst it is fiction it is a very good read and is a "Light" way of understanding the Irish in WW1.

Some of the purist historians may disagree, but I am enjoying reading it.

jos28

It was that book that started me off thinking about my Grandad. I started it last week. It may me wonder where he was sent, what did he see etc. All I know about that time in his life was that he could not stay in his native Kerry after the war. Signing up with the British army did not go down too well with his family. I got my bit of information about him on the UK national archives site. I think I will contact a professional, I have a list of them. It would be worth the effort if I could find out more about him. He signed up with his brother so I might be able to find the two of them.

jos28

Mick86 wrote:

When you say the details listed, do you mean his service number which is stamped on the rim of the two medals.

Hi Mick,
The details I have are from his medal roll.Must get the medals and check them out.

jos28

Just wanted to let you know that I contacted a researcher. Unfortunately my Grandads service record was blitzed but I still got a lot of information.
He was underage when he enlisted in Oct 1913.(Age 16)
He was deployed to France/Flanders June 1915, served as a sapper with the Royal Engineers.
In Aug 1917, he was discharged through sickness, deemed no longer fit for service. He was a chronic asthmatic(died in 1944 age 48 following an asthma attack).
He was awarded the 1915 Star Medal,plus the British War and Victory medals and the Silver War Badge . It only took about 10 days to get the results of the search and was only €60. Well worth doing.
Thanks a million for all your help everyone.

Fratton Fred

jos28 wrote:

Just wanted to let you know that I contacted a researcher. Unfortunately my Grandads service record was blitzed but I still got a lot of information.
He was underage when he enlisted in Oct 1913.(Age 16)
He was deployed to France/Flanders June 1915, served as a sapper with the Royal Engineers.
In Aug 1917, he was discharged through sickness, deemed no longer fit for service. He was a chronic asthmatic(died in 1944 age 48 following an asthma attack).
He was awarded the 1915 Star Medal,plus the British War and Victory medals and the Silver War Badge . It only took about 10 days to get the results of the search and was only €60. Well worth doing.
Thanks a million for all your help everyone.

Shame about the records, but a good result all the same. When I dug up my Grandfathers, it kind of made the whole thing (and him as a person) seem all the more real.

Snickers Man

My mother had several uncles who served in WWI. One of them (by marriage) was an engineer who served right through the war without getting a scratch. Apparently they used to tease him mercilessly for the rest of his life (mostly spent in Dublin, whatever people may now say about veterans being persecuted) about the fact that he never fired a shot and that he had it easy back in the rear, mending bridges and building roads etc.

He would point out indignantly that he actually spent a lot of time in No Man's Land putting up barbed wire, probably one of the more dangerous tasks that a soldier could be allotted.

That's what would make it difficult to find out exactly where your grandfather served. Engineers were required everywhere so he could have been in any theatre of the war. And the website http://www.cwgc.org would be no good to you if he survived the war. That only lists those killed.

dave_705

Hi Jos28 - Can you give me the contact details of the researcher that found out about your relative in the army? I am in a similar position.

Cheers


Dave

spurious

If an ancestor has medals, you can download a copy of their medal card for a small fee from here:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp

dubtom

My Great Grandfather died in the first war but unfortunatly I know nothing of his service, in fact I know nothing about him at all. He died when My grandmother was very young and she seemed to dislike talking about him, so little information has passed down about him. I'm wondering is there somewhere i could search that would give info about a soldier when they joined up, an address perhaps, or marital and dependant info. I had a look on the CWGC site and it lists several with his name in an Irish regiment,but obviously has their nationality as great Britian. I have no dates of DOB or DOD so can't really narrow down the search. i would dearly love to visit his grave if there is one,it seems a shame to me that he is largly forgotten by my family.

Lizzykins

I used a researcher in Britain called Tom Tulloch Marshall who found out a vast amount of info about my grandfather. If you google his name you'll find him. I'd recommend him to anyone. Didn't cost a fortune either.

spurious

I have some connections in the Photographic Project ( http://www.twgpp.org ) and I have a database of all the British army war graves in Ireland.
PM me whatever details you know - name, area of the country he was from, rough age etc. and I will have a look.

dubtom

I managed to find my great grandfathers 1911 census form,I'm amazed really because I have searched before about 10 times with no luck, I have at least now an address, an age, year of marriage and a little more hope of finding out what happened to him. I sent off an enquirie to Tom Tulloch Marshall which I hope will get some results. Thanks for the link.

Fratton Fred

dubtom wrote: »

I managed to find my great grandfathers 1911 census form,I'm amazed really because I have searched before about 10 times with no luck, I have at least now an address, an age, year of marriage and a little more hope of finding out what happened to him. I sent off an enquirie to Tom Tulloch Marshall which I hope will get some results. Thanks for the link.

it might be worth contacting the CWGC as well, they may have more information than is on the website. I know the CWGC very well and they have an enormous amount of records, so it may be worth a try.

My Great grandfather was lost when HM S/M C31 was lost in 1915. One of my grandmother's earliest memories was seeing her father, but because he had been at sea for so long she did not recognise him so refused to go near him. That was the last time she saw him (they have never found the wreck, it was presumed that it hit a mine off heligoland) and she lived with the guilt for the rest of her life. even as an old lady her eyes would fill up when she spoke of him, which she very rarely did.

It is quite amazing that his memory is still intact though, his name is on the Portsmouth guildhall Navy Memorial.

enfield

Dubtom if you pm me with his details I will see whats available without gong to the NA.

tooler777

hi there, hope im in the right place
i found a ww1 victory medal
i have the name ,rank, number, and he served in the irish guards
i would like to return this medal back to the mans family
any ideas where i could start, i went onto the national archives
but it only has name ,rank, and dates of deployment
any help would be greatly appreciated

R.Dub.Fusilier

tooler777 wrote: »

hi there, hope im in the right place
i found a ww1 victory medal
i have the name ,rank, number, and he served in the irish guards
i would like to return this medal back to the mans family
any ideas where i could start, i went onto the national archives
but it only has name ,rank, and dates of deployment
any help would be greatly appreciated

the first thing you can do is put up his name and service number and someone here may look up his medal index card which sometimes has an address and there may be some service or pension papers. he may also have been killed in action which may also lead to an address on line. there is a few lads here who will help out.

put his details in here and see what you come up with http://www.cwgc.org/debt_of_honour.asp?menuid=14

jameswburke

Appeal for information from Co. Kilkenny, Ireland

Kilkenny Photographic Society have assembled a touring exhibition on the theme of Kilkenny and the Great War 1914-18. We have a list of 467 men known to have been killed in the war and our exhibition features some of them, along with family photos kindly shown to us by living descendants. We also have a YouTube movie of the list, set to music of the time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH4fe8JOlRU

We would like any families willing to participate in our exhibition (Kilkenny only) to contact us. The exhibition will be shown in November 2011 at the County Buildings, John Street. Details can be left there too.

Finally, we have discovered a VC winner, Frederick W Hall, who emigrated to Canada and joined up there. He was killed at Ypres in 1915 whilst trying to rescue a wounded colleague. For this he received a VC. There is info on the Canadian Veteran's website but we would like to trace his birthplace in Co Kilkenny so any help would be greatly appreciated. James Burke Mob: 086 8197455

R.Dub.Fusilier

FW Halls father , also Frederick was also in the british army and was a bandmaster in the 2nd volunteer battalion south lancashire regiment. FWH had 2 brothers KIA

jameswburke

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

FW Halls father , also Frederick was also in the british army and was a bandmaster in the 2nd volunteer battalion south lancashire regiment. FWH had 2 brothers KIA

Excellent. Thanks for that info. Would the 2nd Vol Bttn South Lancs regiment have been in Ireland and would his brothers have been born in Kilkenny do you think?

R.Dub.Fusilier

jameswburke wrote: »

Excellent. Thanks for that info. Would the 2nd Vol Bttn South Lancs regiment have been in Ireland and would his brothers have been born in Kilkenny do you think?

i think they moved to Lancashire. i got the information in a book about irish Victoria Cross winners. i will have a look and see if i can come up with any more info and get back to you.

R.Dub.Fusilier

here is his page from irelands Memorial Records.

here is a link to his CWGC page in case you havent seen it http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=1592737

johnny_doyle

his father was from North Shields, Northumberland; his mother from Canterbury, Kent.

His eldest sister Ada was born in Ireland; the next sister and younger brother (Edmund) and youngest sister were born in England according to the 1891 census.

1901 census has Frederick as a boy soldier in Chatham, Kent. He appears to have 2 more brothers Percy Albert and Henry C, both born Lancashire.

There is a family tree on Ancestry with the senior Frederick but the owner doesn't appear to know about the VC winner (or rather doesn't have any info). The grandmother was living at 43 Union Road, West Ham in the 1911 census ie the address on the CWGC entry.

An online tree is at

http://www.chalfont.eclipse.co.uk/halls.html

jameswburke

johnny_doyle wrote: »

his father was from North Shields, Northumberland; his mother from Canterbury, Kent.

His eldest sister Ada was born in Ireland; the next sister and younger brother (Edmund) and youngest sister were born in England according to the 1891 census.

1901 census has Frederick as a boy soldier in Chatham, Kent. He appears to have 2 more brothers Percy Albert and Henry C, both born Lancashire.

There is a family tree on Ancestry with the senior Frederick but the owner doesn't appear to know about the VC winner (or rather doesn't have any info). The grandmother was living at 43 Union Road, West Ham in the 1911 census ie the address on the CWGC entry.

An online tree is at

http://www.chalfont.eclipse.co.uk/halls.html

That's brilliant. Our local paper in Kilkenny will be doing an appeal for local info next week, so we hope to find the family's address in Kilkenny, Ireland. I will post here any information which comes to light - the Irish have long memories!

jameswburke

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

here is his page from irelands Memorial Records.

here is a link to his CWGC page in case you havent seen it http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=1592737

Hi. Thanks for that - I saw they had him down as Canadian. The link below has his attestation papers (joining up papers) where he gives his birthplace as Kilkenny, Ireland. I suppose everyone loves a winner. I've even seen him on an Ulster website, listed as being born in Belfast!

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/collections/virtualmem/photos/1592737

enfield

There were 745 men and women from Kilkenny killed in ww1.
Cheers.
Tom.

jameswburke

enfield wrote: »

There were 745 men and women from Kilkenny killed in ww1.
Cheers.
Tom.

Hi Tom. Where did you see that figure? Do you have details?

enfield

It is from The War Dead Databases Project;

The War Dead Databases Project.
museumtom@gmail.com
The aim of the project is to formulate and collect any book or database that lists Irish casualties who died as a result of war.
The purpose of this is to finally put a correct figure on the Irishmen and Irishwomen that died in the Great War and to assemble them according to their county.

The Irish Government have been approached in a bid to update and amend Irelands Memorial Records, to date, they are unwilling to do so. The President of Ireland was asked if she could or would help. She did not reply. A letter was written to Queen Elizabeth as these were soldiers of the English King. She replied that it was not the policy of British Government to meddle in the affairs of a foreign State. Mr Enda Kenny and five other present Ministers were asked to help, they did not reply.
Let it be known ;-
WE WILL REMEMBER THEM!


The Kilkenny database was completed last year and will be added to the main Roll of Honour. This Roll of Honour will not be complete until there is one complete alphabetical list of the Irish WW1 casulaties which will include all mention of military personnel in regional and rural newspapers of the period. The project is ongoing and the powers that be do not wish to know.
The sources for the Kilkenny casualties are;
Sources; The Commonwealth War Graves Commission, Soldiers Died in the Great War. Soldiers of the Great War. The New Library and Archives Canada. The National Archives of Australia. Nominal Rolls of the New Zealand Expeditionary Force. De Ruvignys Roll of Honour, The War Graves of the British Empire, Commonwealth War Graves Commission registers for the Irish Free State, Irelands Memorial Records. The Tipperary War Dead, The Wexford War Dead, The Wicklow War Dead, The Offaly War Dead, The Waterford War Dead, The Kerry war Dead, University of St Andrews Roll of Honour, Souvenir of the Great Naval Battle, Call to Arms, Montreal’s Roll of Honour, Croydon and the Great War, Artists Rifles Roll of Honour, Princes Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry, University of Edinburgh Roll of Honour, 1914-1919, Sligo 1914-1921, Irish at the Front, New Zealand Roll of Honour, Irish on the Somme, Tenth Irish Division in Gallipoli, The National Roll of the Great War, London, Blackrock College Roll of Honour, South Irish Horse Casualties, The First Five Hundred, Great War Memorial in St Canice’s Cathedral, Kilkenny. WW1 Irish Soldiers; Their Final Testament, Roll of the sons and daughters of the Anglican Church, The Roll of Honour, Five months on a German Raider, The Munster Express, RGA Enlistments—Ireland, WW1 Irish Soldiers wills, Record of service of solicitors and articled clerks with His Majesty's forces, 1914-1919, Irish Submariners (Barrie Downer), Lijssenthoek Cemetery Project, Our Heroes, Wigs and Guns, Soldiers of the Great War (USA), The Distinguished Service Order, Bond of Sacrifice, King’s County Chronicle, Public Records Office, the West Australian, The London Gazette, Flight, The Tipperary Star, The Kilkenny Journal, The Kilkenny People, 1901 and 1911 Census, The Carlow Sentinel, The Leinster Express, The Waterford News, “The Argus” (Melbourne), “The Poverty Bay Herald”, Harrow Memorials, volume 1; Harrow School Register, 1845-1925; Harrovian War Supplement, “The Times”, The Nationalist and Leinster Times, The Enniscorthy Guardian, The Clare Journal.
The references above is not a complete list of available works. The 'database bank' is steadily growing and completed counties are constantly being updated as new casualties are found or brought 'In from the Cold'.

jameswburke

enfield wrote: »

It is from The War Dead Databases Project;

The War Dead Databases Project.
museumtom@gmail.com
The aim of the project is to formulate and collect any book or database that lists Irish casualties who died as a result of war.
The purpose of this is to finally put a correct figure on the Irishmen and Irishwomen that died in the Great War and to assemble them according to their county.

The Irish Government have been approached in a bid to update and amend Irelands Memorial Records, to date, they are unwilling to do so. The President of Ireland was asked if she could or would help. She did not reply. A letter was written to Queen Elizabeth as these were soldiers of the English King. She replied that it was not the policy of British Government to meddle in the affairs of a foreign State. Mr Enda Kenny and five other present Ministers were asked to help, they did not reply.
Let it be known ;-
WE WILL REMEMBER THEM!


The Kilkenny database was completed last year and will be added to the main Roll of Honour. This Roll of Honour will not be complete until there is one complete alphabetical list of the Irish WW1 casulaties which will include all mention of military personnel in regional and rural newspapers of the period. The project is ongoing and the powers that be do not wish to know.
The sources for the Kilkenny casualties are;
Sources; The Commonwealth War Graves Commission, Soldiers Died in the Great War. Soldiers of the Great War. The New Library and Archives Canada. The National Archives of Australia. Nominal Rolls of the New Zealand Expeditionary Force. De Ruvignys Roll of Honour, The War Graves of the British Empire, Commonwealth War Graves Commission registers for the Irish Free State, Irelands Memorial Records. The Tipperary War Dead, The Wexford War Dead, The Wicklow War Dead, The Offaly War Dead, The Waterford War Dead, The Kerry war Dead, University of St Andrews Roll of Honour, Souvenir of the Great Naval Battle, Call to Arms, Montreal’s Roll of Honour, Croydon and the Great War, Artists Rifles Roll of Honour, Princes Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry, University of Edinburgh Roll of Honour, 1914-1919, Sligo 1914-1921, Irish at the Front, New Zealand Roll of Honour, Irish on the Somme, Tenth Irish Division in Gallipoli, The National Roll of the Great War, London, Blackrock College Roll of Honour, South Irish Horse Casualties, The First Five Hundred, Great War Memorial in St Canice’s Cathedral, Kilkenny. WW1 Irish Soldiers; Their Final Testament, Roll of the sons and daughters of the Anglican Church, The Roll of Honour, Five months on a German Raider, The Munster Express, RGA Enlistments—Ireland, WW1 Irish Soldiers wills, Record of service of solicitors and articled clerks with His Majesty's forces, 1914-1919, Irish Submariners (Barrie Downer), Lijssenthoek Cemetery Project, Our Heroes, Wigs and Guns, Soldiers of the Great War (USA), The Distinguished Service Order, Bond of Sacrifice, King’s County Chronicle, Public Records Office, the West Australian, The London Gazette, Flight, The Tipperary Star, The Kilkenny Journal, The Kilkenny People, 1901 and 1911 Census, The Carlow Sentinel, The Leinster Express, The Waterford News, “The Argus” (Melbourne), “The Poverty Bay Herald”, Harrow Memorials, volume 1; Harrow School Register, 1845-1925; Harrovian War Supplement, “The Times”, The Nationalist and Leinster Times, The Enniscorthy Guardian, The Clare Journal.

Thanks Tom, that's a great project. The official Irish non-cooperation doesn't surprise me. We are working on a list compiled by Pte Jim O'Keeffe at KK barracks and research done by historian John Kirwan who is to publish a book on the subject. I look forward to seeing the entire list some day.

Morlar

I think you should also contact each of the Presidential candidates today and ask for a response on this question, if elected would they support the initiative ? If so, how ?

I would make it clear to each candidate's campaign/press office that you have also contacted each of the other candidates and intend to distribute and publish the response of each one.

clumhoho

Well lads,
A mate of mine actually wrote a book about this very topic and i would definitely recommend it. A great read. He also won the Argosy Non-Fiction Book of the Year award at last years Irish Book Awards. Some very interesting stories about Irish soldiers who served in WWI.
He is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to this stuff so look him up if you get the chance.
The book in 'A coward if I return, A hero if I fall' by Neil Richardson

enfield

...

enfield

Irelands Memorial Records
This was formulated in the 1920’s and accepted all soldiers in an Irish regiment as being an Irishman, which is a fatal error. This has led to the famous figure of 49,600 quoted as the ‘official’ number of Irishmen and Irishwomen died during the Great War. In ‘The Tipperary War Dead’ which lists the total number from that county at 1,460, Irelands Memorial Records only has 950. Irelands Memorial Records is an obsolete, incomplete, corrupt, database with many double entries and outright errors. It does not give burial locations. This database sometimes has conflicting data than that found in The Commonwealth War Graves Commission and Soldiers Died in the Great War.
So how many Irish men and women died in the Great War? We really do not know and will not know until this project is completed and we finally have one single alphabetical list of these poor forgotten souls.
We will remember.
Cheers.
Tom.

johnny_doyle

jameswburke wrote: »

Hi. Thanks for that - I saw they had him down as Canadian. The link below has his attestation papers (joining up papers) where he gives his birthplace as Kilkenny, Ireland. I suppose everyone loves a winner. I've even seen him on an Ulster website, listed as being born in Belfast!

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/collections/virtualmem/photos/1592737

his birth registration is Kilkenny

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/MFY9-8VF/p1


the older sisters birth was registered in Belfast

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/MFTF-TW9/p1

though Kilkenny was entered on some documents as place of birth.

jameswburke

johnny_doyle wrote: »

his birth registration is Kilkenny

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/MFY9-8VF/p1


the older sisters birth was registered in Belfast

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/MFTF-TW9/p1

though Kilkenny was entered on some documents as place of birth.

Excellent. That settles it once & for all. Now to find his address in Kilkenny.

enfield

HALL, FREDERICK WILLIAM. Rank: Company Sergeant Major. Regiment or Service: Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regiment). Unit; 8th Battalion. Date of Death:25-April-1915. Age at Death, 28. Service No:1539. Killed in Action.
Supplementary information; Son of Mary Hall, of 43, Union Rd. , Leytonstone, London, and the late Bmdr. F. Hall.
The London Gazette, No. 29202. Dated 23rd June;-
"On 24th April, 1915, in the neighbourhood of Ypres, when a wounded man who was lying some 15 yards from the trench called for help, Company Serjeant-Major Hall endeavoured to reach him in the face of a very heavy enfilade fire which was being poured in by the enemy. The first attempt failed, and a non-commissioned officer and private soldier who were attempting to give assistance were both wounded. Company Serjeant-Major Hall then made a second most gallant attempt, and was in the act of lifting up the wounded man to bring him in when he fell mortally wounded in the head. "
Next of kin listed as (mother), Mrs M Hall, 260 Young Street, Winnipeg.
Place of birth, Kilkenny, Ireland. Date of birth, 21-February-1885. Occupation on enlistment, Clerk. Belonged to the 106th Light Infantry prior to enlistment and previous military experience of 12 years, four months with the 1st Cameronians.
Place and date of enlistment, Valcartier, 26-September-1914. Address on enlistment,. Height, 5 feet, 8 inches. Complexion, ruddy. Eyes, brown. Hair, auburn.
Grave or Memorial Reference: Has no known grave but is commemorated on Panel 24 - 26 - 28 – 30 on the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial in Belgium.

jameswburke

enfield wrote: »

HALL, FREDERICK WILLIAM. Rank: Company Sergeant Major. Regiment or Service: Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regiment). Unit; 8th Battalion. Date of Death:25-April-1915. Age at Death, 28. Service No:1539. Killed in Action.
Supplementary information; Son of Mary Hall, of 43, Union Rd. , Leytonstone, London, and the late Bmdr. F. Hall.
The London Gazette, No. 29202. Dated 23rd June;-
"On 24th April, 1915, in the neighbourhood of Ypres, when a wounded man who was lying some 15 yards from the trench called for help, Company Serjeant-Major Hall endeavoured to reach him in the face of a very heavy enfilade fire which was being poured in by the enemy. The first attempt failed, and a non-commissioned officer and private soldier who were attempting to give assistance were both wounded. Company Serjeant-Major Hall then made a second most gallant attempt, and was in the act of lifting up the wounded man to bring him in when he fell mortally wounded in the head. "
Next of kin listed as (mother), Mrs M Hall, 260 Young Street, Winnipeg.
Place of birth, Kilkenny, Ireland. Date of birth, 21-February-1885. Occupation on enlistment, Clerk. Belonged to the 106th Light Infantry prior to enlistment and previous military experience of 12 years, four months with the 1st Cameronians.
Place and date of enlistment, Valcartier, 26-September-1914. Address on enlistment,. Height, 5 feet, 8 inches. Complexion, ruddy. Eyes, brown. Hair, auburn.
Grave or Memorial Reference: Has no known grave but is commemorated on Panel 24 - 26 - 28 – 30 on the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial in Belgium.

Blimey - that's comprehensive. Thanks very much for all that.

enfield

Thats from the Kilkenny database.
Regards
Tom.

jameswburke

enfield wrote: »

Thats from the Kilkenny database.
Regards
Tom.

Thanks Tom. Your'e doing a great job.

johnny_doyle

in the 1920 US CEnsus, the mother, 3 brothers and eldest sister are living in Manhattan. The mother now puts her place of birth as Ireland.

The brother Percy puts his occupation as a "Homesteader in Canada".

All have marked 1917 as the year of immigration. Presumably from Canada.

Henry appears to have served with the Canadian Army (260 Young St, Winnipeg being the same address as on Frederick's attestation paper; enlisted 2 days after Frederick)

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.01-e.php?&id_nbr=435498&interval=20&&PHPSESSID=32vnuppluco4le4ebuttpl1np3

In 1921, the sister Augusta and the mother pass thru Ellis Island on the way to see "Mr Hall" of 115 Kennedy St, Winnipeg. The mother is back to born Canterbury, England. The family appear to do a lot of to and fro between the UK and North America.


The nominal roll of the 8th Battalion is online with Colour Sgt Hall in C Company, page 11

http://ia600406.us.archive.org/28/items/CEF_8thBattalion_1915/CEF_8thBattalion_1915.pdf




http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/thestar/access/508850991.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Nov+06%2C+1998&author=&pub=The+Spectator&desc=Search+for+war+hero+aided+by+city+man%3A+Awarded+Victoria+Cross+in+1917&pqatl=google



http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=MyYBAAAAIBAJ&sjid=aigDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3633,6001496&dq=frederick-william-hall&hl=en

a very interesting 1918 article which lists Belfast as place of birth

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=wv5SAAAAIBAJ&sjid=sDcNAAAAIBAJ&pg=6139,3827268&dq=frederick-william-hall&hl=en

jos28

Does anyone know if the records from the recruiting offices are available. I always thought that my Grandad (from Tralee) ran away to England in 1913and ended up as a sapper in the Royal Engineers. I am reading Neil Richardson's 'A coward if I return, A hero if I fall, Stories of Irishmen in World War 1' and one of the stories concerns a Michael Ahern from Tralee who enlisted as a sapper in the Royal Engineers in 1912 and was stationed at the Curragh until war broke out. I would love to find out where my Grandad enlisted and if he spent time at the Curragh before being shipped out.

johnny_doyle

records from recruiting offices don't exist unfortunately but some service/pension records for WW1 soldiers do. There is generally more info available on a soldier who died than one who survived.

Michael Ahern, for example, has a pension record that shows he enlisted in Tralee on the 4th January 1912. He was a 20year old cooper at the time of his enlistment in the RE. Assigned the number 22380. Served till 1920. Wounded by gas. Later number 1843302. He served in the UK, France and India. His record contains details of brothers, sisters, wife and son.

For most there are no records but if they served abroad there should be a mdeal roll entry.

Pop his name on here or the WW1 forum and we'll see what's available.

jos28

Thanks a million. Spot on there Jimmy,according to the book Michael left his job as a cooper in Dingle to enlist. AFAIK my Grandad signed up with his brother. They were Bartholomew and William Glover.

johnny_doyle

I can see 1 medal card for a Bartholomew Glover, Sapper, Royal Engineers, number 25418. Entered France 12/6/1915. Awarded 1915 Star, Victory Medal and British War Medal. Discharged but no date given. Not seeing anything else.

I think you already have this info based on a Rootschat thread and a posting in the WW1 forum.

There are a load of cards for William Glover. Nothing to show which one might have been from Tralee. There are 16 with Royal Engineer medal cards; if they'd joined together then their numbers would be close but the nearest is 28335 who was from Staffordshire and died of wounds. Any medals in the family belonging to William?

The photo of William on the WW1 forum shows him wearing a Silver War Badge rather than a Royal Engineers badge

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/49848/97657.jpg

This photo taken by Thomas Forrest and Sons who operated out of a studio (Cambrian Studios) at 14 Market St, Pontypridd, Glamorgan, from 1868 through to 1926.