[PR] Bus Éireann Launches Cork & Limerick Development Plans

Victor

They mention the new route 16, but what of the existing route 16?

http://www.buseireann.ie/site/news_centre/press_centre.asp?action=view&news_id=538

Bus Éireann Launches €18m Cork Development Plan

Bus Éireann today announced details of a major €18m development plan which has the potential to transform public transport for customers in Cork. The announcement was made by Minister Micheal Martin TD at 12.00hrs, today Thursday May 10th in the Clarion Hotel in Cork.

A significant increase in buses, routes and departures for the Cork Metropolitan Area is planned by Bus Éireann. The development plan is underpinned by Transport 21, the government’s ten year infrastructure investment programme, and also by CASP, the Cork Area Strategic Plan.

Bus Éireann is also exploring the feasibility of introducing bus trams to Cork City and revealed details of its current feasibility study at the event.


- Key Improvements Planned–

The key improvements in the Bus Éireann Cork Development Plan include:
* More new low floor accessible buses and coaches for Cork
* New Cork city bus services
* Enhancements to existing Cork city and suburban bus services
* New Cork Commuter services
* Enhancements to existing Cork Commuter services
* A new Town service for Ballincollig


Speaking at the launch, Mr Joe Fitzgerald, Bus Éireann Regional Manager South said:

“New buses provided to Bus Éireann under Transport 21 will enable us to deliver, in a short time frame, significant and tangible improvements for our customers in the Cork Metropolitan Area. The frequency of existing bus services is set to improve and new routes to growing areas will also be added to the Cork bus network. These will be provided on a modern fleet of low floor wheelchair accessible, bio fuel compatible vehicles.”


New Buses and Coaches

Crucial to the full implementation of the Bus Éireann Cork Development Plan are the new vehicles the Company is seeking under Transport 21.

Bus Éireann plans for 2007 to 2009 are based on the introduction of 56 new buses to the Cork Fleet over the 3 year period - 36 replacement vehicles and 20 additional.

32 of these new vehicles (19 replacement and 13 additional) have been approved by the Department of Transport under Transport 21 and will be arriving within the next 12 months.

The Plan is underpinned by the introduction of these resources. The new vehicles will arrive on a phased basis, and service improvements will be introduced on a similar basis.

Services improvements are contingent on the provision of licenses.

All of the new vehicles will be low floor wheelchair accessible and will also be bio-fuel compatible.


New Cork City Bus Routes

New routes planned for Cork city include the provision of a new 10A service to run in parallel to the existing No 10. The 10A service will operate between the City Centre and Mahon Point, via Boreenmanna Road.

A new No 16 service will operate between the City centre/Rochestown/Mount Oval/Maryborough Hill.

City buses are currently on order by Bus Éireann and it is envisaged that these service improvements will be introduced in late 2007.


Enhanced existing Cork City and Suburban services

In line with the phased introduction of new vehicles, the next step will be to increase service frequencies on all the main existing city and suburban routes to meet the demand of the growing population. Existing routes will also be lengthened to provide services to a greater number of residential areas.

Frequencies will be boosted on City service such as the:
No 5 service from CIT to Kent Station via the City Centre
No 7 service from Ballyvolane/City Centre/Donnybrook
No 8 service from Bishopstown/City Centre/Mayfield
No 14 service from CUH/Togher/City Centre


Existing routes will also be extended to cater for more areas and passengers. For example, the No 3 service from Ballyphehane/City Centre/Farranree will be extended to Lehenaghmore.

Similar frequency improvements will be introduced on Bus Éireann Cork Suburban services:

221 Cork/Glanmire
222 Cork/Carrigaline/Crosshaven
223 Cork/Passage/Monkstown
224 Cork/Blarney/Tower


New Cork Commuter Services

242A: Mallow Rail Feeder via Mitchelstown/Fermoy
243A Cork/Whitechurch

Enhanced Cork Commuter Services

231 Cork/Macroom/Ballyvourney
This service will be extended to Kenmare morning and evening
245 Cork/Watergrasshill/Rathcormac/Fermoy
249 Cork/Airport/Kinsale
261 Cork/Midleton/Ballinacurra


A New Town Service for Ballincollig

In addition a new town service (Route 229) is planned for Ballincollig, earmarked for introduction in 2009. The service will operate between the growing number of housing estates in the residential areas of Ballincollig and Ballincollig Town Centre, where customers can link with a high frequency service to Cork.


- Continued progress on Green Routes Vital to Plan -

Speaking at the launch Mr Joe Fitzgerald of Bus Éireann stressed the importance of the continued roll-out of the Green Routes if the full value of the investment in public transport is to be realized.

He stated: “For the full benefits of the type of investment we are discussing to be realised, a continued commitment to implementing the vital supporting infrastructure, such as Green Routes is very important.

Bus Éireann in Cork works on a partnership basis with Cork City Council, Cork County Council and An Garda Siochana; and 6 of the proposed 10 Green Routes outlined in the Cork Area Strategic Plan (CASP) will be in place by the end of 2007.

The Green Routes which are in place on certain city routes are shortening journey times for customers and are encouraging more people to use public transport. The solution to the problem of gridlock is twofold – not just the provision of buses – but also Green Routes. Together they are the only effective means of speeding up public transport, giving buses that vital head start which will encourage people out of their cars. I am delighted that Cork is leading the way in regard to the implementation of Green Routes.


The Bus Éireann Cork Development Plan – the Key Benefits

The Bus Éireann Expansion represents a €18 million investment and development package for public transport in the Cork Metropolitan Area and is underpinned by vehicles to be provided to Bus Éireann under Transport 21, the government’s ten year transport and infrastructure investment programme.
* The new fleet will facilitate an additional 138 extra departures and 3 new routes on Cork city services as well as 38 extra departures and 2 new routes on Commuter services
* Additional buses and more services will attract 4 million extra customers between 2007 and 2009 – displacing 1 million car journeys a year to 2016
* Integration of city services with wider transport networks to include enhanced integration with rail, air and taxi services will be a priority.


‘Bus Rapid Transit’ & Bus Trams

At the launch of the Cork Development Plan, Bus Éireann revealed it is currently examining the potential for the introduction of ‘BRT’ (Bus Rapid Transit), commonly known as ‘bus trams’ which are popular in the US, Canada and in a growing number of European cities.

Bus Trams are regarded as suitable for operation in smaller sized cities.

Bus Éireann is at present exploring the feasibility of operating bus trams in Irish cities including Cork and intends to enter some vehicles into service on a trial basis this summer.


What are bus trams and what can they deliver?

Bus trams are a bus/tram hybrid vehicle capable of delivering a high quality tram-style service in terms of capacity and reliability, coupled with the far lower costs associated with manufacturing and running buses.


The attractiveness of Bus Rapid Transit lies in its potential to deliver a very high frequency service at a fraction of the cost of designing building and maintaining a full-scale tram system.

Quality stations and ‘bus stops’ are provided at frequent intervals along the route featuring Real Time Passenger Information (RTPI), so customers know what time the next service is due.


Bus Trams: the Benefits
* Cost-effective – Bus trams have the carrying capacity of traditional trams at a fraction of the cost. BRT enables communities to address transportation needs quickly while leaving resources for other important priorities, like schools and parks. The high cost of traditional trams typically limits the amount that can be provided. Because of the cost effectiveness of BRT, many more services can be provided – to ensure wide-ranging provision.
* High capacity - Ottowa, Ontario, operates one of the largest BRT systems in North America, with over 200,000 daily riders on the Ottowa Transitway, achieving peak capacities of 10,000 passengers per hour per direction. This has been cited as an example of the efficiency of BRT systems.
* Quick and simple solution – Bus trams can operate on ordinary road space thus saving the lengthy time periods associated with constructing tram systems, delivering important benefits in a short time frame
* Eco-friendly - Bus trams are capable of running on alternative, more environmentally-friendly fuels making them cleaner and quieter than traditional diesel buses. By relieving congestion on streets, they reduce emissions, noise levels and improve the air quality.
* High quality design - Bus trams are low floor, wheelchair-accessible and are contemporary in design with comparatively spacious interiors.
* Fast, high quality service - Because bus trams typically operate on dedicated bus way, the punctuality of service and reliability is significantly improved. The provision of real time passenger information also tells customers what time the next service is due.
* High frequency service - A high-frequency, all day service can be provided with stops at frequent intervals to facilitate a large number of users.


The cost of bus trams versus conventional trams systems is impressive

Low construction costs, low maintenance costs
* Infrastructure costs 10%
* Vehicle costs 75%
* Vehicle operating costs 80%
* Infrastructure operating costs 0.5%


Bus trams – ideal for medium sized cities

BRT is regarded by transport experts as the ideal public transport solution for small to medium sized cities. The system is currently in operation in Eindhoven in the Netherlands which has a population of 550,000.

BRT is being successfully introduced in a growing number of cities internationally including Edinburgh in Scotland, Ottowa in Canada and Brisbane in Australia.


Bus Éireann Cork – Notes for Editors

* Bus Éireann employs 556 people in Cork City and County including 330 Drivers and 77 part-time school bus drivers.
* Approximately 16 million passengers traveled on Bus Éireann services in Cork City and County in 2006 – City/Suburban services 12.5 million, Commuter/stage carriage 2.5 million, Expressway passengers 1 million.
* Passenger numbers on City and Suburban services has increased by 25% since 2000 and the number of daily departures in Cork City services has increased from 586 to 857 in the last 6 years (an increase of 46%) Similarly Suburban services have increased from 133 departures per day in 2000 to 206 per day departures in 2006 an increase of 55%.
* The Bus Station at Parnell Place was completely refurbished in 2004 and formally reopened in January 2005 at a cost of €4.1 million, on time and on budget.
* Over 3.3 million passengers availed of Bus Éireann services through Parnell Place Bus Station in 2006.
* 92% of the Cork City fleet is now low floor fully accessible and with the arrival of the new buses in 2007/ 2008 this will be 100%.

Victor

http://www.buseireann.ie/site/news_centre/press_centre.asp?action=view&news_id=536

Bus Éireann Launches €6.7m Limerick Expansion Plan

Bus Éireann today announced details of a major €6.7m expansion plan set to transform public transport for customers in Limerick. The announcement will made at an event today April 30th in Limerick attended by Minister Martin Cullen and the CEO of Bus Éireann Mr Tim Hayes.

A significant increase in buses, routes and departures is planned.

The expansion is underpinned by Transport 21, the government’s ten year infrastructure investment programme.


- Key Improvements –

The key improvements in the Bus Éireann Limerick Expansion Plan include:
* New city services
* Enhancements to existing services, and
* Enhancements to Commuter routes


Speaking at the launch Miriam Flynn, Bus Éireann Manager South-West said:

“New buses provided to Bus Éireann under Transport 21 will enable us to deliver, in a very short time frame, significant and tangible improvements for our customers in Limerick city and region. The frequency on existing services is set to improve radically and new routes to growing areas will also be added. These will be provided on a modern fleet of low floor wheelchair accessible, bio fuel compatible vehicles.”


New City Routes

New routes planned for Limerick city include the provision of 12 new daily services on
* Raheen/City Centre via Dock Road
* Thomand Village/City Centre
* Annacotty /City Centre.


More City Departures

Departures on existing services are also set to increase significantly.

Departures on the O’Malley Park and Ballycummin routes are in line to double over the next three years, with the introduction of new fleet under Transport 21.

The Coonagh, Pineview, Caherdavin and UL routes will also get a significant increase in services.


Expansion of the Ennis Town Service

An expansion of the Ennis Town route is also planned, with additional services to be provided. Three additional services are planned, for the Clarecastle, Eastern Residential and Western Residential Areas. 18 departures will operate on daily basis.


- Bus Lanes Vital -

Speaking at the launch Tim Hayes, CEO of Bus Éireann stressed the importance of rolling out more bus lanes if the full value of the investment in public transport was to be realized.

Tim Hayes stated: “For the full benefits of the type of investment we are discussing today to be realised, we need to see alongside it a commitment to implementing the vital supporting infrastructure, such as bus lanes. The solution to the problem of gridlock is twofold – not just the provision of buses – but also bus lanes. Together they are the only effective means of speeding up public transport, giving buses that vital head start which will encourage people out of their cars.”


The Bus Éireann Expansion Plan – the Key Benefits

The Bus Éireann Expansion represents a € 6.7million investment and development package for public transport in Limerick and its region and is underpinned by vehicles to be provided to Bus Éireann under Transport 21, the government’s ten year transport and infrastructure investment programme.

* 19 additional and 5 replacement fully accessible buses are due to enter the Limerick fleet over the coming three years, with more than half coming into the network by the end of 2008.
* The new fleet will facilitate an additional 70 departures on new routes and 244 additional departures on existing/enhanced routes
* Additions to fleet and services will facilitate movement of an extra 2.9million passenger over the three years of the plan.
* Integration of city services with wider transport networks to include enhanced integration with rail, air and taxi services will be a priority.


Limerick Region
* An overall 133 per cent increase in departures on Enhanced Commuter Routes to Glin, Charleville, Newport/Nenagh and Ennis.
* Total accessibility on all city services.
* High frequency on Metropolitan links connecting Limerick-Shannon-Ennis.
* New Ennis Town Services to provide 18 departures daily on three routes serving Clarecastle and the East and West residential areas of the town.


- Bus Rapid Transit -

Could ‘Bus Trams’ be the Future for Public Transport in Irish Cities such as Limerick?

At the launch of the Expansion plan, Bus Éireann revealed it is currently examining the potential for the introduction of ‘BRT’ (Bus Rapid Transit), commonly known as ‘bus trams’ which are popular in the US, Canada and in a growing number of European cities.

Bus Trams are regarded as suitable for operation in smaller sized cities. The company is at present exploring the feasibility of operating bus trams in Irish cities including Limerick and intends to enter some vehicles into service on a trial basis this summer.

An 18 metre streetcar, manufactured by Wrights of Ballymena, Co Antrim, was unveiled at the event for demonstration purposes.

What are bus trams and what can they deliver?

Bus trams are a bus/tram hybrid vehicle capable of delivering a high quality tram-style service in terms of capacity and reliability, coupled with the far lower costs associated with manufacturing and running buses.

The attractiveness of Bus Rapid Transit lies in its potential to deliver a very high frequency service at a fraction of the cost of designing building and maintaining a full-scale tram system.

Quality stations and ‘bus stops’ are provided at frequent intervals along the route featuring Real Time Passenger Information (RTPI), so customers know what time the next service is due.


Bus Trams: the Benefits
* Cost-effective – Bus trams have the carrying capacity of traditional trams at a fraction of the cost. BRT enables communities to address transportation needs quickly while leaving resources for other important priorities, like schools and parks. The high cost of traditional trams typically limits the amount that can be provided. Because of the cost effectiveness of BRT, many more services can be provided – to ensure wide-ranging provision.
* High capacity - Ottowa, Ontario, operates one of the largest BRT systems in North America, with over 200,000 daily riders on the Ottowa Transitway, achieving peak capacities of 10,000 passengers per hour per direction. This has been cited as an example of the efficiency of BRT systems.
* Quick and simple solution – Bus trams can operate on ordinary road space thus saving the lengthy time periods associated with constructing tram systems, delivering important benefits in a short time frame
* Eco-friendly - Bus trams are capable of running on alternative, more environmentally-friendly fuels making them cleaner and quieter than traditional diesel buses. By relieving congestion on streets, they reduce emissions, noise levels and improve the air quality.
* High quality design - Bus trams are low floor, wheelchair-accessible and are contemporary in design with comparatively spacious interiors.
* Fast, high quality service - Because bus trams typically operate on dedicated bus way, the punctuality of service and reliability is significantly improved. The provision of real time passenger information also tells customers what time the next service is due.
* High frequency service - A high-frequency, all day service can be provided with stops at frequent intervals to facilitate a large number of users.


The cost of bus trams versus conventional trams systems is impressive

Low construction costs, low maintenance costs
* Infrastructure costs 10%
* Vehicle costs 75%
* Vehicle operating costs 80%
* Infrastructure operating costs 0.5%


Bus trams – ideal for medium sized cities

BRT is regarded by transport experts as the ideal public transport solution for small to medium sized cities. The system is currently in operation in Eindhoven in the Netherlands which has a population of 550,000.

BRT is being successfully introduced in a growing number of cities internationally including Edinburgh in Scotland, Ottowa in Canada and Brisbane in Australia.

dowlingm

Stupid BE PR gimps still misspelling Ottawa I see. (Since this is a copy/paste of previous such fluff.)

Too late BE - hand your routes over to a Cork Transit Authority.

markpb

Could someone tell these goons that BRT has almost nothing to do with bus-trains and everything to do with the physical infrastructure that makes them good. Rolling out longer buses and the same old crappy bus lanes we have in abundance in Dublin is not BRT.

Zoney

LOL! Buses on the Dock Road in Limerick! That barely copes with traffic even outside of rush hour (it's only a lane either direction and has so many turn-ins that the middle of the road is floating islands and right turn lanes for almost the full length), and that's before the Southern Ring Road opens, dumping city-bound traffic at the Cement Factory roundabout rather than at Roxboro (access at Roxboro is being closed). Still - there are all manner of ill-planned suburbs springing up along the link roads between the Cement Factory and Raheen Ind Estate - I presume the bus route will serve these, or possibly the Father Russell Road.

As for Thomond Village - good, but only if it doesn't do a wandering tour of that whole side of the city in getting from UL to the city centre. Annacotty - again, if that has many stops once it gets closer to the city, it'll require a sizeable chunk of people's time for the journey.

bk

Victor wrote:

Frequencies will be boosted on City service such as the:
No 5 service from CIT to Kent Station via the City Centre
No 7 service from Ballyvolane/City Centre/Donnybrook
No 8 service from Bishopstown/City Centre/Mayfield
No 14 service from CUH/Togher/City Centre


Existing routes will also be extended to cater for more areas and passengers. For example, the No 3 service from Ballyphehane/City Centre/Farranree will be extended to Lehenaghmore.

While any improvement is certainly welcome, FFS they are extending the number 3 bus service that is already way over capacity, yet only has a bus every 20 - 25 minutes (which in reality is about one an hour), while on the other hand increasing the frequency of the number 8 which already has a bus every 10 minutes.

Sometimes I wonder do they make these decisions based on where the BE management live.

Stark

bk wrote:

while on the other hand increasing the frequency of the number 8 which already has a bus every 10 minutes.

Every 10 mins according to the timetable, the reality is something else entirely I wonder will the increased frequency have the effect of people getting a reasonable reliable service despite every second bus not showing up, or will it just give drivers/management more excuse to say "**** 'em, there'll be another bus in 5 minutes".

I was hoping they'd drop the bus trams nonsense after the election.

Chris_533976

Isnt this coming on from an article a few weeks ago which says its like 20 new buses? I worked out it would be an almost meaningless improvement.

Its a start though.

MLM

Is there an existing route 16 in Cork city?

Stark

Yes, from what I remember, they're dropping the old route in favour of the new one.

bk

Stark wrote:

Every 10 mins according to the timetable, the reality is something else entirely I wonder will the increased frequency have the effect of people getting a reasonable reliable service despite every second bus not showing up, or will it just give drivers/management more excuse to say "**** 'em, there'll be another bus in 5 minutes".

Yes, but now imagine had bad it is on the number 3 bus route where they are "scheduled" for every 20 - 25 minutes and you regularly end up waiting for an hour.

E92

Will there be any double decker buses for Cork? Anytime I have the misfortune of using the bus(whether I use the 10 or 2) its often full and not alway in rush hour traffic, since the number 10 was extended to Mahon Point a few years ago its hard to get a seat on the bus, before that there were double deckers on it when I was younger why cant we have them now when the country actually has money, the number 10 and 2 could both do with double deckers as well here in Cork, and anytime I'm in town and I see a number 7 or 8 they look like they are going to explode with all the people squashed into them, so they are in even more urgent need of double deckers, people packed in like sardines and they end up leaving people behind. And anyone who thinks that a bus runs on time in Cork needs their head examined, the number 2 you see on a fairly regular basis 3 number 2's arrive at once or within minutes, especially on a Friday.

You have to wonder who runs these state owned monopolies. I am a complete car enthusiast but I could do better than Bus Eireann do with the 'service' they provide in Cork. They should be forced to have competition from private operaters. Bus Eireann have no incentive to do any better, mind you it wouldnt be difficult to improve on the shambolic service that is presently provided, though knowing BE I'm sure they could find a way of doing it worse. Like they say that the numbers using bus services in Cork have increased by 25% since 00. AFAIR there were double deckers back then. Now there are no double deckers. Its no wonder that buses are so full, when they use buses that can only carry half as many people, cause theres only 1 deck instead of 2 as there used to be and more people are using the bus.

New bus services are all well and good, but they might actually try and run the existing ones properly for a start,if that wouldn't be too much too ask.

Zoney

I too wonder why the need to play around with these "bus trams" when they haven't put double deck buses on routes that require them.

MLM

Bus Eireann scrapped all the double deckers in Cork in the early/mid nineties and replaced them with single deckers, which were deemed more suitable, and more economical to run in a hilly city. At least that was the excuse they gave at the time.

Stark

and anytime I'm in town and I see a number 7 or 8 they look like they are going to explode with all the people squashed into them, so they are in even more urgent need of double deckers, people packed in like sardines and they end up leaving people behind.

I love the message as well: "Bus Full. Extra bus following". Extra bus my arse.

simu

MLM wrote:

Bus Eireann scrapped all the double deckers in Cork in the early/mid nineties and replaced them with single deckers, which were deemed more suitable, and more economical to run in a hilly city. At least that was the excuse they gave at the time.

I'd nearly believe it. Those double deckers were scarey to travel in!

The route I use most in Cork is having its frequency increased anyways - woot!

John R

E92 wrote:

Will there be any double decker buses for Cork?

Yes, not sure how many though. An order has been put in for a batch of double deckers for both Dublin commuter an Cork city services, no confirmation on how many Cork will get, 10-15 would be my guess.

Zoney

MLM wrote:

Bus Eireann scrapped all the double deckers in Cork in the early/mid nineties and replaced them with single deckers, which were deemed more suitable, and more economical to run in a hilly city. At least that was the excuse they gave at the time.

Limerick hasn't had them since the 1980s. The excuse was something similar despite there not really being much in the way of steep hills on the two main bus routes (Castletroy/UL, Raheen).

E92

John R wrote:

Yes, not sure how many though. An order has been put in for a batch of double deckers for both Dublin commuter an Cork city services, no confirmation on how many Cork will get, 10-15 would be my guess.

Thanks be to God. About bloody time too. They should never have gotten rid of them in the first place.The question now is when will we actually see them?

dowlingm

Interesting that hills would be given as a reason for no double deckers, since my recollection is that Cork bus garage is on a bloody steep hill. Maybe move the garage lads eh?

Victor

bk wrote:

While any improvement is certainly welcome, FFS they are extending the number 3 bus service that is already way over capacity, yet only has a bus every 20 - 25 minutes (which in reality is about one an hour), while on the other hand increasing the frequency of the number 8 which already has a bus every 10 minutes.

I've never had a problem with the 3 (I used to live around the corner from the terminus). Sure the end loop is large, but it doesn't suffer from congestion, so its not a problem.

Lehenaghmore = what exactly? AFAIK Lehenaghmore is the townland for the parts of Togher and Ballyphehane outside the city.

dowlingm wrote:

Interesting that hills would be given as a reason for no double deckers, since my recollection is that Cork bus garage is on a bloody steep hill.

Not particularly. Its an easy cycle.

bk

Victor wrote:

I've never had a problem with the 3 (I used to live around the corner from the terminus). Sure the end loop is large, but it doesn't suffer from congestion, so its noo a problem.

You obviously don't live on the Farranree end of the line?

E92

bk wrote:

While any improvement is certainly welcome, FFS they are extending the number 3 bus service that is already way over capacity, yet only has a bus every 20 - 25 minutes (which in reality is about one an hour), while on the other hand increasing the frequency of the number 8 which already has a bus every 10 minutes.

Well I'd imagine that the number 8 could do with extra buses, anytime I see it, its packed to the rafters, people squashed into it like sardines,even in the early afternoon.

Of course they should give it double deckers, and the capicty is doubled straight away, since theres 2 decks instead of one. The soon they get double deckers the better, I see green double deckers going around the place in Cork at the moment, surley they should be out onto the number 8 and other routes immediately.

Victor

bk wrote:

You obviously don't live on the Farranree end of the line?

Hell no. I live in Dublin.

E92 wrote:

Of course they should give it double deckers, and the capicty is doubled straight away, since theres 2 decks instead of one.

Double deckers tend to be shorter than single deckers.

dowlingm

the problem with the dds could be the skanger element.

bk

Victor wrote:

Double deckers tend to be shorter than single deckers.

I noticed new double deckers here in Dublin, they have three axles (three sets of wheels) and look longer. Can anyone confirm if they are longer?

KC61

Dublin Bus currently have 20 tri-axle buses in service which are longer than the rest of the double-deck fleet.

There are 50 more on order for delivery in 2007, along with 50 standard double deck buses which will replace 100 older buses in the fleet.

parsi

Zoney wrote:

Limerick hasn't had them since the 1980s. The excuse was something similar despite there not really being much in the way of steep hills on the two main bus routes (Castletroy/UL, Raheen).

You may recall that the Double-Deckers couldn't go under the railway bridge on the tipp road so that ruled them out on the No.2 whch was the main UL route.

However they were used on the No.8 (as was) and as specials eg gig buses, bus to the grad ball...

parsi

E92 wrote:

You have to wonder who runs these state owned monopolies. I am a complete car enthusiast but I could do better than Bus Eireann do with the 'service' they provide in Cork. They should be forced to have competition from private operaters..

Well your plans will have to wait until the next election

Seriously though the competition issue needs to be looked at carefully. There will be no probs getting multiple companies to offer services between 4 - 6 on a Weekeday ex City Centre. It will be harder to find someone to do the 22-23.00 No.2 from Knocknaheeny or the 10:45 from Goleen on a winter tuesday.

Oxford Street in London is carless - just taxis and gazillions of buses. There are so many buses that they are delaying each other and progress is cruel (you'd nearly walk it faster..).

bk

parsi wrote:

Seriously though the competition issue needs to be looked at carefully. There will be no probs getting multiple companies to offer services between 4 - 6 on a Weekeday ex City Centre. It will be harder to find someone to do the 22-23.00 No.2 from Knocknaheeny or the 10:45 from Goleen on a winter tuesday.

It really isn't that difficult, almost every bus run in London is operated by one of 12 private bus companies.

They have a bus regulator who puts out contracts for particular routes that specify, number of buses, schedule, etc. and the private companies then bid on these contracts.

The bus regulator also controls fares, type of bus used, level of training for drivers, livery used on bus, safety rules, etc.

spacetweek

Sorry for bumping guys, but I'm interested to know how things have turned out here, down in Cork. I was talking to a bloke from Cork the other day who was complaining about ****e Cork bus services, though he hasn't lived there in several months.

So did the double deckers and increased frequency happen?

Stark

The number 8 timetable is still the same as it was anyway.

Colm R

spacetweek wrote: »

Sorry for bumping guys, but I'm interested to know how things have turned out here, down in Cork. I was talking to a bloke from Cork the other day who was complaining about ****e Cork bus services, though he hasn't lived there in several months.

So did the double deckers and increased frequency happen?

Half hearted efforts. New route heading out towards Ballinlough is all I've seen. Seen no double deckers buses and to be honest the service levels on other routes don't seem to have improved at all.

There is always the odd front page in the echo that says the luas will come to Cork, bla bla bla. Its all lip service and we won't see much improvement this side of 2012.

Crying shame really as a city wide overhaul of all bus services would be the simplest and cheapest way of sorting out Corks transport problems. A tram system would be nice and perhaps in the future.

But it just seems that BE, City Council are our TDs are just not interested in creating a customer centric service. And the real pity is, a city the size of Cork could have a really profitable service if things were just thought out.

But I have no faith in our politicians.

KC61

If you read the original press release again, you'll see that the programme of improvements for Cork, and indeed Limerick, Waterford and Galway is to be phased in over the period 2007 - 2009.

Some of the improvements in Cork have happened:
New buses (for both city and suburban services) have been delivered
Route 10A and 16 have been launched

The double decks for the suburban outlying services are being delivered at the moment. The first of these new double decks has gone into service in Dublin on the Athboy and Trim route, but I would imagine that it won't be too long before the Cork batch enter service as well.

markpb

Colm R wrote: »

Half hearted efforts.

Did you expect anything else when dealing with public transport in Ireland?

All the measures KC61 mentioned boil down to new buses and new routes. I'd be more interested in the "green routes" which I suspect are equivalent to bus lanes in Dublin. Have any more been built? Have they been improved or do they think putting more buses into the same traffic will help?

Stark

markpb wrote: »

All the measures KC61 mentioned boil down to new buses and new routes. I'd be more interested in the "green routes" which I suspect are equivalent to bus lanes in Dublin.

Not really. A relaid footpath is sufficient to meet CCC's definition of "green route". That was the case for most of the northside section of the No. 8 green route anyway. They did put in a small section of bus lane near Mayfield library but residents use that to park their cars.

Colm R

The issue with Bus Lanes in Cork and the other cities is that the streets are too narrow.

So to overcome this, a new way of doing things need to be thought up. This may involve closing streets to traffic, not just in the city center but elsewhere along with other measures. And token gestures such as new foothpaths just won't cut it. Just like narrow bus lanes in, Dublin, its just not good enough.

So what should be done. Send engineers, planners architects to other cities in the world of a similar size to see how its done. And the most important thing here is not to send the politicians!!

Then someone stand up and say this is the way its going to be. And then do it!!

But alas, no, its not going to be like that is it. We are going to get small sections of bus lanes in various places which cause buses to get stuck in heavier traffic further back. But at least someone gets to have a photo taken in front of it and count on a few more votes under the banner "Look what I delivered for Cork"

Zoney

Limerick has relatively high frequency buses on the Raheen route - and the route changed that every second bus goes by the bus/railway station. However, the buses bunch up at peak times - even with the aimed for 10 min frequency there end up being gaps and overcrowded buses. The bus lane is really of negligable impact - as it is only the outlying stretch of the route in one direction. Punches Cross is a severe choke point.

The University route now has bus lane on the Co. Limerick part as well, and this is somewhat useful - but one of the main choke points is getting out of the University campus itself, as well as the Parkway Roundabout closer to the city, and Limerick's car park - the Childers Road (which to avoid being a choke point would now need two traffic lanes in each direction *plus* bus lane in both directions *and* two lanes on the Dublin Road into the city centre - to allow traffic for that exit to get off the Parkway roundabout).

The University route takes a lot of buses (15 min intended frequency) but traffic and dodgy bus routing (always trying to catch up to the schedule after peak times, rather than drop a service and get back on schedule that way - buses are not regularly spaced for hours after peak time) can mean gaps of 45 mins or more. It's a disaster.

markpb

Zoney wrote: »

However, the buses bunch up at peak times - even with the aimed for 10 min frequency there end up being gaps and overcrowded buses. The bus lane is really of negligable impact - as it is only the outlying stretch of the route in one direction. Punches Cross is a severe choke point.

It's the same problem as everywhere else. Some engineer thinks they can slap down a white line and magically the buses will run properly. It's sheer laziness and ineptitude that stops this country having a decent bus service. *Everything* along the entire route needs to be considered: the entire bus lane, all the junctions and roundabouts, the bus stops, bus-bus conflicts at stops, traffic lights, alighting time (because we insist on single door buses), boarding time (because our ticketing system is back in the 80s), passenger information.

How many of those things do you think were considered in Limerick, or Cork or even Dublin? I'd wager in Dublin (arguably the best bus network in the country) only manages two on it's best routes.

Poxyshamrock

Limerick has seen alot of new buses on the Raheen route which is great for people using that route.
Not alot else has changed though.
I notice the 303 in the mornings now runs as 303a and 303b.
And as for the new routes, they are yet to come.
The Dock road one is cancelled I do believe.