Toning Up - Spinning or Stretch And Tone Class

Triton

Have been going to the gym a few months now and am getting bulkier but want to tone up a bit (lose the small gut I have) but would I be best off with a spinning class or a stretch and tone class?

Or what would be best?

rubadub

Lifting heavy weights for 3 sets of 8-12reps and going on a diet will help you "tone" and shift a lot of fat.

Check the stickies and www.exrx.net

Vegeta

Diet is very very important here, get that right first

Dragan

I'm gonna say something that might upset a few people but simply saying "weights will help" while being true, is also somewhat misleading. Weights in conjunction with good intensity in the gym will help. If your looking to use weights to help you shift bodyweight then rest times are everything, and the shorter they are the better.

Now, that is a pretty general statement but when it comes to the "average" trainee then it is completely true. Do weights, but put the effort in, keeps the rest times down and work hard.

justsomebloke

I am going to go with alterting your diet, as you say you are gettign bulkier so I am gathering you mean that you are putting on some lean mass. So altering feeding times and the types of food you eat at different times of the day may be your best bet to help lose the bit of excess fat. so post up your current diet and we will have a look

Triton

jsb wrote:

I am going to go with alterting your diet, as you say you are gettign bulkier so I am gathering you mean that you are putting on some lean mass. So altering feeding times and the types of food you eat at different times of the day may be your best bet to help lose the bit of excess fat. so post up your current diet and we will have a look

Diet:

Morning - bowl of dry Special K (don't like Milk on them)

11 o clock - 6 slices of wholegrain bread toasted

lunch - generally pasta (with sauce) or a roll with hot chicken or ham because Im in work.

Dinner - fish and brown rice, or pork chops and dry pasta or chicken and brown rice or pasta. Sometimes fish and chicken with beans.

What should I be cutting out from the above? I also drink alot of Milk and water. No fizzy drinks.

I also take some Pro X and am on fat loss pills.

Triton

Any feedback on the above lads?

ali.c

its a bit heavy on the carbs, esp in the morning. you dont say how much milk you drink it can be quite calorific though it is a source of protein. I would lose the chicken/ham roll, you will get more nutrional value for your calories if you prepare your own lunch and bring it with you. Plus you are only getting four meals in a day, could you prehaps add in at least one more?

Newaglish

I would swap the bread in the mid-morning for fruit and a natural yoghurt or something? You don't have to cut it out altogether, maybe just have one or two slices.

Also what do you have on the toast? Or do you eat it dry, after the dry cereal? Sounds like a prison diet! Though i'm sure it's just your tastes :P

Maybe switch the hot chicken roll for a cold (read: not breaded) chicken wrap at lunch? Also some more fruit?

Come to think of it, there doesn't seem to be any fruit/veg in your diet?

Is it wholemeal pasta you eat? And milk is great as long as you aren't drinking buckets of the stuff.

Otherwise though it's not bad at all, keep it up!

MattKid

where the hell is the veg and fruit?

Have a read of this

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-ripping-up-guide-to-cutting.aspx

Triton

I don't drink much milk. Just a pint a day if even that.

I used to have Flora on the toast. I'm now trying to change the toast for three slices of brown bread with some beans and scrambled egg, is that any better for me?

As for the fruit and veg, I just can't bring myself to eat them. Would getting a smoothie every day or two be enough to suffice instead?

I'm going to try out a natural yoghurt or two.

slicus ricus

Right, im gonna pick apart your diet now and recommend some alternatives to help you cut some bodyfat. Im assuming from your original post that where you say you're getting bulkier that you do weights a few times a week.

Triton wrote:

Morning - bowl of dry Special K (don't like Milk on them)

Porridge with milk would be a far better option in the morning time, as it contains slow release carbs that will give you higher energy levels. It also contains less sugar.

Triton wrote:

11 o clock - 6 slices of wholegrain bread toasted

Replace this with Chicken/Tuna/other form of lean meat and a 2 slices of wholemeal bread - MacCambridge tastes good. A chicken salad would work too.

Triton wrote:

lunch - generally pasta (with sauce) or a roll with hot chicken or ham because Im in work.

Dinner - fish and brown rice, or pork chops and dry pasta or chicken and brown rice or pasta. Sometimes fish and chicken with beans.

You only really need one high carb meal a day (apart from breakfast) if you're trying to cut bodyfat. Have this meal an hour to an hour and a half before you train. This meal should be a lean meat with potatoes/rice/pasta as your main form of carbs. So if you train at night, eat before you train - i.e. when your body actually needs the energy you gain from the carbs. Small portions of carbs are grand with other meals as well but just be careful not to overdo it.

Get rid of the beans and the roll if you want to lose bodyfat! I wouldnt really be in favour of the fat loss pills either - if you get the diet right, you shouldnt need them.

Also, as has been mentioned above, fruit and veg are an essential. A good idea is to pour a low fat yoghurt into a bowl and add about 5 pieces of chopped up fresh fruit - it's bleedin delish! An easy way to eat veg is to mix a load of it into a stock cube sauce and pour the sauce with veg over your meat and pasta/rice/spuds.

Almost forgot, healthy fats later in the day can be very helpful for cutting weight - flax seed oil, pumpkin seeds, fish oil nd anything containing omega 3 are generally good sources.

Triton

I'm not really in a position to eat just before I go to the gym because I go to the gym straight after work at six. I usually eat lunch around 2.

slicus ricus

Triton wrote:

I'm not really in a position to eat just before I go to the gym because I go to the gym straight after work at six. I usually eat lunch around 2.

This is ok, but not ideal. Id recommend having you're main high carb meal at lunch time. Then when you get home from the gym, have a high protein meal with some healthy fats. Theres no need to eat complex carbs at 8 in the evening - your body doesnt need them and wont use them, they will be converted into bodyfat if not used. Its good to take in simple carbs and protein directly after training for muscle repair and growth, so for this I would also recommend a RAM shake as soon as you finish your workout - i.e. in the changing room before you hit the showers.

mkdon05

Hey, im in similar position as the op, so following the advice here too, but what is a RAM shake?

slicus ricus

mkdon05 wrote:

Hey, im in similar position as the op, so following the advice here too, but what is a RAM shake?

RAM is a recovery shake made by an irish company called nutrition x. It contains a 2:1 ratio of simple carbs to protein, as well as glutamine, arginine akg and other important nutritients for post workout recovery. Theres a lot of us on this forum who use this product directly after lifting sessions and have found it highly effective.

Here's a link to the RAM product page on the nutrition x website - http://www.nutritionx.ie/RAM.html

Triton

slicus ricus wrote:

This is ok, but not ideal. Id recommend having you're main high carb meal at lunch time. Then when you get home from the gym, have a high protein meal with some healthy fats. Theres no need to eat complex carbs at 8 in the evening - your body doesnt need them and wont use them, they will be converted into bodyfat if not used. Its good to take in simple carbs and protein directly after training for muscle repair and growth, so for this I would also recommend a RAM shake as soon as you finish your workout - i.e. in the changing room before you hit the showers.

What meal would have high carbs? Should I be eating pasta at lunch on the day before I go to the gym?

How could I get some simple carbs? I take Pro X when I get home from the gym. Would the Ram be better or what? I also take a small shake in the morning.

I ate a Tesco Bio Youghurt today for breakfast and it was nice so might start eating those. Heard they're very good for ya. Maybe could have them some days at eleven.

MA

rubadub wrote:

Lifting heavy weights for 3 sets of 8-12reps and going on a diet will help you "tone" and shift a lot of fat.

Check the stickies and www.exrx.net

Lifting heavy weights will help you bulk up. lifting light weights with high reps will help you tone, avoiding compound exercises such as bench press, barbell shoulder press etc. Switch to dumbells, they isolate the muscle more. Compound exercises target many muscles and are used for strength. if you want definition you need to focus on technique slow controlled movements - dumbells targets the muscle more, your making it work harder to keep the DBells steady - a barbell you are using 2 hard to controll the weight, its easier so you can lift heavier.

do at least 12 reps of 3 sets - and do a burn out set which is 1 set of as many reps as you can with low to no weight - press ups, pulls ups, tricep dips

MA

Triton wrote:

What meal would have high carbs? Should I be eating pasta at lunch on the day before I go to the gym?

How could I get some simple carbs? I take Pro X when I get home from the gym. Would the Ram be better or what? I also take a small shake in the morning.

I ate a Tesco Bio Youghurt today for breakfast and it was nice so might start eating those. Heard they're very good for ya. Maybe could have them some days at eleven.

Lunch should be complex carbs and protein, you want high in complex carbs not just high in carbs. basmati/jasmine/brown rice with meat and vege. sandwich is ok- not ideal but easy for busy lifestyle, wholemeal or wholegrain bread (not brown) watch the filling.

Pro X is a good brand- have a shake within 30minutes of your weight workout to repair/ feed your muscles which helps them grow.

Bio yogurts are good but no where NEAR enough for breakfast!! that would be better as a mid morning snack, eleven.
I eat high carb breakfast, fruit/ natural yogurt w banana at 11, half carbs half protein for lunch, protein bar at 3 and then low carb high protein dinner at 5
been experimenting for years and it gives me enough energy for a 2-3 hour intense workout and keeps the body fat low

MA

Triton wrote:

Diet:

Morning - bowl of dry Special K (don't like Milk on them)

11 o clock - 6 slices of wholegrain bread toasted

lunch - generally pasta (with sauce) or a roll with hot chicken or ham because Im in work.

Dinner - fish and brown rice, or pork chops and dry pasta or chicken and brown rice or pasta. Sometimes fish and chicken with beans.

What should I be cutting out from the above? I also drink alot of Milk and water. No fizzy drinks.

I also take some Pro X and am on fat loss pills.

wouldnt recommend Special K its a load of bollax, one of those fad breakfasts - its has sugar and is another processed form of serial - your better sticking to complex carbs ... porridge or tried oatabix?

get rid of the SIX slices!! have bread at most every other day, little nutrition in it - how much butter??!! ... (lose the bread if poss)

white roll? breaded chicken? make sure the chickens lean and not deep fried, breaded aint good either generally fatty. Ham is high in salt. turkey is good.

stay away from creamy based pastas

you dinner is GOOD - if you really want to shift weight eat dinner early (before 5) or cut the carbs out. dont be eating carbs late at night.

water great - milk, again dont overdose on dairy if you want to cut fat - drink milk in moderation

MA

Dragan wrote:

I'm gonna say something that might upset a few people but simply saying "weights will help" while being true, is also somewhat misleading. Weights in conjunction with good intensity in the gym will help. If your looking to use weights to help you shift bodyweight then rest times are everything, and the shorter they are the better.

Now, that is a pretty general statement but when it comes to the "average" trainee then it is completely true. Do weights, but put the effort in, keeps the rest times down and work hard.

agree with this, you can incorporate anaerobic weight work into your weights program as well. short bursts at high intensity, ie while doing legs grab a pair of dumbells and do a minutes step ups - subsetings good to.

sorry i made the mistake of not reading through all posts and have repeated alot of whats been said

slicus ricus

Triton wrote:

What meal would have high carbs? Should I be eating pasta at lunch on the day before I go to the gym?

I would recommend pasta or brown rice at lunch time every day - no need to eat these types of complex carbs late at night any day. Essentially what im suggesting is to eat your dinner type meal att lunch time - thats when your body needs the complex carbs.

Triton wrote:

How could I get some simple carbs? I take Pro X when I get home from the gym. Would the Ram be better or what? I also take a small shake in the morning.

Simple carbs are sugars - glucose, dextrose etc and are essential for the insuline spike you need straight after your workout. You can add simple carbs to your protein shake if you like but it would be far cheaper and less of a pain in the ass to just buy a tub of RAM.

I would continue taking the Pro X shake whenever you need - its more or less the same as eating a chicken fillet or a tin of tuna.

Triton wrote:

I ate a Tesco Bio Youghurt today for breakfast and it was nice so might start eating those. Heard they're very good for ya. Maybe could have them some days at eleven.

Thats a good healthy option - make sure you're getting enough protein throughout the day to maximise the effects of your weight training.

MA wrote:

Lifting heavy weights will help you bulk up. lifting light weights with high reps will help you tone, avoiding compound exercises such as bench press, barbell shoulder press etc. Switch to dumbells, they isolate the muscle more. Compound exercises target many muscles and are used for strength. if you want definition you need to focus on technique slow controlled movements - dumbells targets the muscle more, your making it work harder to keep the DBells steady - a barbell you are using 2 hard to controll the weight, its easier so you can lift heavier.

do at least 12 reps of 3 sets - and do a burn out set which is 1 set of as many reps as you can with low to no weight - press ups, pulls ups, tricep dips

While what you're saying there has some truth to it, theres just a few things i want to point out.

1. Tone - Lifting in general will build muscle - the reason low reps cause more bulk is because you lift a heavier weight, thus putting more strain on the muscle. With 12 rep sets, you lift less weight - you're not actually helping to tone. You can do all the 12 rep sets in the world, you're still not gonna look toned if you have a high bodyfat percentage.

2. Compound exercises are good for a weight lifting programme, as they will improve you're core strength and allow you to lift heavier and thus build size. A mixture of barbell compound exercises and dumbell isolation exercises is what you should have in your program in my opinion.

MA

While what you're saying there has some truth to it, theres just a few things i want to point out.

1. Tone - Lifting in general will build muscle - the reason low reps cause more bulk is because you lift a heavier weight, thus putting more strain on the muscle. With 12 rep sets, you lift less weight - you're not actually helping to tone. You can do all the 12 rep sets in the world, you're still not gonna look toned if you have a high bodyfat percentage.

2. Compound exercises are good for a weight lifting programme, as they will improve you're core strength and allow you to lift heavier and thus build size. A mixture of barbell compound exercises and dumbell isolation exercises is what you should have in your program in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

I agree - Any form of training that uses resistance training will build muscle - Even sprinting builds muscle to some extent. Muscle growth depends on the activation of muscle fibres, resistance training activates muscle fibres.

Tone – to tone I recommend high reps short breaks, with high reps your also getting your heart rate up bringing it into your fat burning zone. Agree weights alone will not help you tone, cardio is also an essensial component.


Compound exercises – completely agree “Compound exercises target many muscles and are used for strength. “they are deadly for strength and when you want to bulk up are ideal – but Triton didn’t want to build size he wanted to tone up, so wouldn’t you recommend focusing more on isolation exercises ? You can include compound exercises in your program but where you can substitute compound for isolation exercises do so


A general fact is if you want to build muscle/bulk low reps, if you want to tone up use higher reps

mloc

MA wrote:

A general fact is if you want to build muscle/bulk low reps, if you want to tone up use higher reps

I would tend to disagree with this. For tone, I would recommend heavy, low rep CNS stimulating work which will improve the tone and apperant condition of the muscles more than lots of light reps.

In terms of "definition" etc, low bodyfat is key, which is primarily diet related.

BossArky

For those lurking and unsure of the difference between simple and complex carbs here you go. I found it useful.

MA

mloc wrote:

I would tend to disagree with this. For tone, I would recommend heavy, low rep CNS stimulating work which will improve the tone and apperant condition of the muscles more than lots of light reps.

In terms of "definition" etc, low bodyfat is key, which is primarily diet related.

heavy reps for toning ... do you not find you bulk up? id only ever advise on personal experience. I lifted heavy for a few months and got massive. My recent goal was to lower my body fat % which was done with resistance training in high reps and a hours cardio.
4 weeks in i noticed i was solid with little fat but no definition, so i changed my weights program to high reps -this is what gave me the definition and reduced the bulky look.
In saying this high reps is 15, low is around 6. Id still lift till failure and superset with a lower weight till burn out.

Everyones different, ive never been taught to use low rep training for toning/definition and ive never seen anyòne get results this way- not to say it cant be done!

Triton

Tried some Weetabix for breakfast today and, while it wasn't exactly lovely, it was alright so going to try it instead of Special K for a while.

Also bought some McCambridge bread. Have started eating loads of red meat too.

Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to sign up for a beginner's spinning class on Tuesday as well and see how I get on.