Sinn Fein the key maker

djmc

Just to stir it up who would like to see Enda kenny take sinn fein into goverment to kick out FF.
After all FF once had ties to the IRA in the 1920s and 30s
Then again the founders of FG ie. michael collins were once IRA men

Time Magazine

It's kingmaker, not key maker.

And FG hate SF. And it's mutual.

Never going to happen. FG have enough seats to leave FF and SF in the cold.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

wow sierra

Ibid wrote:

It's kingmaker, not key maker.

And FG hate SF. And it's mutual.

Never going to happen. FG have enough seats to leave FF and SF in the cold.

I assume you mean FF have enough seats to leave FG and Sf in the cold???

Also I kind of like the idea of the Keymaker - the maker of the key that lets someone back in to Leinster house:) ...... and I reckon Sinn Féin supporters don't like Kings in general or the making of them...

Sorry I'm in a bit of a weird mood brought on by vote counting, lack of sleep etc.

On topic - we've seen Martin and Ian and the lovein in Stormont and then Ian junior phoning to congratulate FF on their election win. Anything is possible in Politics.
I reckon Sinn Féin are beginning to hate FF more now cos the f*ckers ran the economy so well that they nearly wiped out the Sinn Féin base - the unemployed and marginalised.

Sinn Fein could throw the cat among the pigeons by abstaining on the leadership vote.

djmc

Civil war yes
de valera FF wanted 32 county republic
michael collins FG went with 26 county
FG won
Country still divided
Sinn fein took up where FF left off in late 50s early sixtys
cease fire in 94 -97 again in 98 good friday agreement to date

wow sierra

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

It happened a long time before FF interned people in the Curragh, didnt they actually execute people then??? And yet Sinn Féin are always more associated with FF.

Despite:

Sean Mc Bride in the Interparty Government????.

Origins of FGs "new best friends" in the Labour Party (SFWP - Sinn Féin the workers party)?????

At the end of the day the numbers dont add up and thats the issue at the moment - that and their extreme left wing economics.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Stabshauptmann

djmc wrote:

Just to stir it up who would like to see Enda kenny take sinn fein into goverment to kick out FF.
After all FF once had ties to the IRA in the 1920s and 30s
Then again the founders of FG ie. michael collins were once IRA men

Genetic Fallacy.

Our man in Havana

ronoc wrote:

Sinn Fein could throw the cat among the pigeons by abstaining on the leadership vote.

What would that achieve?

Voipjunkie

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Sinn Fein have accepted partition and there position is pretty similar to FGs if you look at it they both agree that the constitutional position of the North can only change when a majority in the north are in favour.

While convincing unionists might be further up the list of priorities than FG they are not incompatible on the issue FG is the united Ireland party. They disagree on when violence should have stopped but that is in the past.

And there is no need for parties to agree on everything if they did they would be in the same party.

The numbers are there for FG and Labour to oust FF from power which would be a huge benefit for democracy as it is bad for any country to have the one party apparently perpetually in power with the mudguard changed every once in a while.
They need to move forward if Ian Paisley can surely FG/Lab/ and the greens can or are FG going to let the opportunity pass them by as they did in 1992 because they did not want to be contaminated by the DL it was a nonsense then and it is a nonsense now look who is leading the labour Party the same people FG did not want to deal with in 1992

ninebeanrows

FG + LABOUR + GREENS + INDEPENDANTs

come on ya good thing ya

Time Magazine

wow sierra wrote:

I assume you mean FF have enough seats to leave FG and Sf in the cold???

No, FG+Lab+Green+PD+Indos = government.

Bond-007 wrote:

What would that achieve?

As far as I know an abstention lowers the majority needed to pass a vote. You need 83 to pass something in a full Dáil. If the 4 Shinners abstain, it becomes (166-4)/2 = 81, by my reckoning.

Voipjunkie

Ibid wrote:

No, FG+Lab+Green+PD+Indos = government.

.

FG+Lab+Green+PD = 79
Lowry is 1

Means that they would need Gregory and McGrath which might be possible but

Flynn and Healy rae can't see it they are FF to the core

Not to mention that parties that take the high moral ground in regards to SF would be in with Lowry and Flynn

wb

Ibid wrote:

No, FG+Lab+Green+PD+Indos = government.


As far as I know an abstention lowers the majority needed to pass a vote. You need 83 to pass something in a full Dáil. If the 4 Shinners abstain, it becomes (166-4)/2 = 81, by my reckoning.

It won't though, because Bertie will do a deal with harney and the independents, so the Sinn Féin vote won't matter.

Voipjunkie

Ibid wrote:

As far as I know an abstention lowers the majority needed to pass a vote. You need 83 to pass something in a full Dáil. If the 4 Shinners abstain, it becomes (166-4)/2 = 81, by my reckoning.

That is possible to get a Taoiseach elected but FF and SF could bring it down with a vote of no confidence whenever it suited them that said SF might not be in a hurry to have another election just yet but FF could easily engineer a situation where SF could not abstain.

Also that is predicated on the PDs jumping ship cannot see it happening if they have any hope for the future it is with FF not a hotch botch coalition of left and right


SF is Endas only hope of Government end of story if SF is completely ruled out so is Enda. FF have plenty of options.

wow sierra

Ibid wrote:

No, FG+Lab+Green+PD+Indos = government.


As far as I know an abstention lowers the majority needed to pass a vote. You need 83 to pass something in a full Dáil. If the 4 Shinners abstain, it becomes (166-4)/2 = 81, by my reckoning.

FF + PD + Ms Flynn = 81

Don't think either side would want it to be that tight.

ninebeanrows

Yes Sinn Fein could well be king makers

Infact with SF they wouldn't need the PD's

djmc

But do you think FG labour etc could forget the past and let sinn fein into a new goverment with them or how would FG and labour supporters feel about that.
I voted for the greens but martin ferris is a well liked in north kerry and is very pro active with peoples problems in the county .

Time Magazine

When I said Indos, I meant (and acknowledge) that all of them would be needed. Bev would be under a lot of pressure to support a fellow Castlebar man to the top job, with another Mayo man as Táinaiste. FG got 54% of the FPVs in Mayo, twice the national average, Bev could do worse than help FG.

Healy-Rae would need a hell of a package.

No way will FG go into government with SF. It just will not happen. Now I'm not saying the super rainbow will happen, it probably won't, but FG will not touch SF. For a long time.

AidoCQS

I think its undemocratic the way they are both ignoring sinn fein

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

beanyb

It's not undemocratic at all. I seriously doubt many people that voted for SF expected them to actually get into government. And if they did, they need to read a newspaper every now and again. Every single party has stated that they wouldnt go near them, and they wont.

Time Magazine

AidoCQS wrote:

I think its undemocratic the way they are both ignoring sinn fein

I think it's ridiculous that people think it's undemocratic to ignore a party that have only four seats and that want to bin the Offences Against the State Act.

Hoops1888

beanyb wrote:

It's not undemocratic at all. I seriously doubt many people that voted for SF expected them to actually get into government. And if they did, they need to read a newspaper every now and again. Every single party has stated that they wouldnt go near them, and they wont.

Oh really. Let's say it was up to Sinn Fein for the goverment do you honestly believe there wouldnt be deals done?

For year's the DUP and FF/FG etc said they wont go into goverment with Sinn Fein, DUP always said why should we go into goverment when they wont have them in the south. Now their in goverment in the North so what's the Republics reason now? They all wanted the IRA to disarm IMO Sinn Fein got them to do that nothing to do with FF, but its funny how parties can claim they brought the good Friday agreement about its well know if FG were in power there wouldn't be an agreement Gerry Adams words.

bleg

AidoCQS wrote:

I think its undemocratic the way they are both ignoring sinn fein

undemocratic in having a private terrorist army way or undemocratic in a kneecapping way?

E92

Its NEVER going to happen not this time, probably not the next time either. the fact that for once FF kept their promise gives even more reason for it not to happen. The only people that would FG to go in with SF are those who despise or dislike FG and want to see the back of FG. If FG were to go in and its not going to happen, the PDs and Labopur will have a new lease of life in that a lot of Blueshirt supporters and members would defect to either Labour, Greens or a lot of them to the PDs.

Voipjunkie

E92 wrote:

Its NEVER going to happen not this time, probably not the next time either. the fact that for once FF kept their promise gives even more reason for it not to happen. The only people that would FG to go in with SF are those who despise or dislike FG and want to see the back of FG. If FG were to go in and its not going to happen, the PDs and Labopur will have a new lease of life in that a lot of Blueshirt supporters and members would defect to either Labour, Greens or a lot of them to the PDs.

Well then I hope FG like the opposition benches because they have another 5 years at least of keeping them warm.

And if FF do a deal with Labour or the Greens then it will be longer.

BTW why would they defect to Labour as they would have to be in as well and the PDs are not in a position to take advantage of anything. Besides which in 5 years time it would not even be an issue just as DL was not an issue in 1997 yet it was for Bruton in 1992.

Voipjunkie

bleg wrote:

undemocratic in having a private terrorist army way or undemocratic in a kneecapping way?

So FG are more inflexible than Ian Paisley that says something.

The very least that FG could do is talk to the shinners and see if there is anyway that they could work together in the interest of good democracy FF should not be allowed to continue in government forever if it is possible that they could be removed if the shinners are off the wall then at least he tried but to ignore them and allow FF to run this country with a new mudguard is letting down the people who voted for change IMO.

FTA69

Ibid wrote:

I think it's ridiculous that people think it's undemocratic to ignore a party that have only four seats and that want to bin the Offences Against the State Act.

People didn't reject Sinn Féin over the Offences Act, I doubt many people even know their policy on it. Anyway, it should be binned, throwing people in jail on the word of a cop is unjust in the extreme.

LordSutch

I just dont see how anybody can vote for the 'key-makers' in the first place ~ they openly glorify those provisional IRA dead (usually killed on active service whilst planting a bomb in a shopping centre or under a Police car), Sinn Fein praise the noble actions of these same provisional IRA fellas, they openly acknowledge the brave actions of the IRA and their litany of Bombings, shootings, knee cappings, assinations, etc, etc ..........

Key makers maybe, & probably to the safe of the local Bank, but not in my name

E92

Most FG people are more than happy to sacrifice 5 more years in opposition than go into Government wioth Sinn Fein I would imagine. the difference between Fine Gael and others is that Fine Gael actually sticks to what it believes in, namely that there will be no circumstances under which Fine Gael will go in to power with Sinn Féin. FFs Mary Hanafin made rerference to the fact that one of the things that contributed to their sucess at the weekend was the fact that when undecideds weren't sure about FF, when they got the reassurance that FF would not go in with SF under any circumstances that they then felt ok about voting for FF. FG would be a spent force in Irish politics if they went into Government with Sinn Fein. We would get the same punishing that Labour got in 97 when they fought the election 5 years prior to that about getting rid of FF and then actually going in with them in the end. You will recall that Labour went from 33 to 21 seats as a result of their change in attitude on that issue.

People that vote FG have diametrically opposed views to those who vote for Sinn Féin on almost everything, and that is only the start of the problems with going into Government with Sinn Féin. There is the whole question about their past, about the fact that I saw recently on their Ógra website calling for the release of the other 'POWs', something Fine Gael opposes tooth and nail, I could nearly write a thesis on reasons for Fine Gael not to go in with Sinn Féin.
If they were to go in, as I say there would be a new lease of life for the PDs(a considerable number of FG voters would probably go straight to them), a substantial increase in the support of Labour and the Greens, some might even shift to Fianna Fáil.

AidoCQS

bleg wrote:

undemocratic in having a private terrorist army way or undemocratic in a kneecapping way?

Off yer high horses would ye.. every one of them, every last one of them except perhaps the Greens started out with an Army of some sort... FF were the old IRA, FG the Blue shirts, labour a slightly less paramiltary but none the less militant trade unionist movement... if we were to take that view we would all be up in the mountains taking pot shots at each other with Baretta's instead of sitting here in our comfy office chairs exchanging ideas.