So should Irish be mandatory for the LC?

SamHamilton

I'd just like to see how the numbers add up.

Timans

Definitely not,

For one, it is not taught correctly in order for us to gain fluency. We've all done it for 12 off years yet VERY few of us are fluent. If it was taught like the Euro Languages are taught then we would all be very good at it. Well, the majority anyway. If they are going to keep the same old, ancient Irish methods of teaching then make it optional for LC, compulsory for JC.

It is my weakest subject by far and I don't see why I should suffer with a subject which won't aid me outside of school life and will drag my LC results down.

GretchenWieners

No

It should be but they definitely need to change the methods of teaching and should offer bonus marks like they do for higher level maths. I'll send my children to gaelscoileanna for their own good, it's the only way you can compete for points against people from other countries now since they pretty much have an A in the bag is they do something like Dutch or Russian.

timmywex

Timans wrote:

Definitely not,

For one, it is not taught correctly in order for us to gain fluency. We've all done it for 12 off years yet VERY few of us are fluent. If it was taught like the Euro Languages are taught then we would all be very good at it. Well, the majority anyway. If they are going to keep the same old, ancient Irish methods of teaching then make it optional for LC, compulsory for JC.

It is my weakest subject by far and I don't see why I should suffer with a subject which won't aid me outside of school life and will drag my LC results down.

.
have to agree with EVERYTHING there, everyone doing a europeean language is fairly fluent by jc, while so many jc students cant say please or thank you in irish

Rozabeez

No

GretchenWieners wrote:

It should be but they definitely need to change the methods of teaching and should offer bonus marks like they do for higher level maths. I'll send my children to gaelscoileanna for their own good, it's the only way you can compete for points against people from other countries now since they pretty much have an A in the bag is they do something like Dutch or Russian.

I agree, but the only way I can see the methods of teaching changing is if teachers of Irish refuse to speak English to their class, but there'd be a problem with that as an awful lot of students may just get lazy and drop their level.

dan719

What bonus points for honours maths? Only UL does that. Also the introduction of bonus points systems will lead only to disasters- crys of discrimination from those studying the perceived weaker subjects. Don't get me wrong though- if they want to give me 400 points for an A1 in maths and physics- go ahead!:D

Nehpets

no

eZe^

No, if they change the way its taught in schools Id reconsider.

whassupp2

No

change the lc syllabus completely and keep it mandatory

tolosenc

No

Definitely should be compulsary. Where's the harm? Although, I do agree that the LC syllabus needs changing

Timmywex, most JC European language student are fluent after three years? Bollox. I did French immersion in France up till Xmas of TY, and it took me a good 6 weeks to learn there was a Subjunctive tense, and another 4 till I could try to listen to casual convos. And I got an A in JC Honours!

Vorsprung

You do know there's another huge thread on this already?

Maybe you could ask the OP or Mod to put a poll in

md99

that scourge of a language should not be mandatory for anything

JC 2K3

No

md99 wrote:

that scourge of a language should not be mandatory for anything

lol, scourge.

How do you rate one language against another?

Irish has a nice, poetic feel to it IMO.

Nehpets

The poll is pretty close

Rozabeez

No

It seems people who haven't been interested or bothered putting in the same effort they would for a European language have something against Irish.

Insect Overlord

No

The problem with the Irish language is that too many children go into primary school thinking "Oh no, now I have to learn stupid Irish and it's really really hard and I don't want to." There's an inherited hatred of it because be people see Irish as a school subject rather than the beautiful language it really is. When the reluctance is there from such a young age it creates a barrier which negates the learning of the language.

When you add in that so few teenagers have any appreciation for expressive arts such as poetry and prose, the whole of Paper 2 becomes a nightmare. Stair na Litríochta warrants far too much effort for the miniscule rewards it receives in the exam.

The Scrúdú Béil is also dreaded. We learn off enough necessary vocabulary to pass it, with some nice phrases thrown in for good measure. How many 6th Year students (besides me ) can actually think in Irish, express their own opinions and engage in a full conversation as Gaeilge? Very few. Instead it's all just m'Áit Chónaithe, Tionchar na Meáin Chumarsáide and a few words about Caitheamh Aimsirthe.

The same can be said for the essay in Paper 1. Students go to the effort of learning off by heart some spiel about Slad ar na Bóithre instead of developing the ability to write what they really feel.

In my opinion it's not the curriculum or the status of the subject that need changing, it's the general mentality of the public.

md99

JC 2K3 wrote:

lol, scourge.

How do you rate one language against another?

Irish has a nice, poetic feel to it IMO.

I rate them by how well I'm able to speak/learn them lol, Irish is okay but it's the way its thought and basically the huge difference from English (unlike say French) which turns me off it... and I think it just has such an ugly, rigid sound to it. ach nach mbeadh bhuachail chailín.... French on the other hand has such a lyrical, natural feel, I mean just listen to a conversation, watch La Haine or Amélie... so foul and fair a language I have not seen...

except for the foul part..

cson

No

Where we are there's daggers in mens smiles...

JC 2K3

No

md99 wrote:

I rate them by how well I'm able to speak/learn them lol, Irish is okay but it's the way its thought and basically the huge difference from English (unlike say French) which turns me off it... and I think it just has such an ugly, rigid sound to it. ach nach mbeadh bhuachail chailín.... French on the other hand has such a lyrical, natural feel, I mean just listen to a conversation, watch La Haine or Amélie... so foul and fair a language I have not seen...

except for the foul part..

I liked Amélie.

And lol, you picked some rather exeptionally harsh sounding words to string together there Although the "bh" in bhuachaill and the "ch" in chailín aren't really harsh....

You're probably not used to hearing Irish spoken naturally if you think it's harsh sounding. It's nowhere near say German in that respect

Lucas10101

No

If people were given the choice, most people would say no that aren't in an Irish speaking area or weren't brought up in an Irish school. The levels would just droop down. Sure the same would probably happen in maths, the other 40000 would not do it probably. It's an Unrealistic Move, we should have some education in Irish, if we can study the Irish Political History, then I'm sure that Irish can be learned as well.

Nehpets

The Irish language is uglier than German in my opinion

tolosenc

No

To quote a poem for the course:

"Níl aon ní, aon ní a stór,
Níos suibhní ná buicéad stáin na spéire,
Ag silleadh solais ar Inis Bó Finne"

Ugly? Nahhhh

JC 2K3

No

Nehpets wrote:

The Irish language is uglier than German in my opinion

It really doesn't help the arguments of those against it being mandatory if it turns out they're anti-Irish bigots, against the language itself, not simply the fact it's compulsory.

Marshy

There are clear arguments for and against.

People say the language would be lost without it being compulsory in schools. And that "tír gan teanga....".

On the other hand, why should people be forced to study a subject that they hate studying so much.

I'm gonna say no it shouldn't be forced upon somebody. Surely there should be an element of choice. I mean in reality, the minority of people who like the language and would chose it if it were optional are going to be the only people who speak it at all later in life. So either way there'll be the same number who'll keep their gaeilge.

Enemy Of Fate

JC 2K3 wrote:

It really doesn't help the arguments of those against it being mandatory if it turns out they're anti-Irish bigots, against the language itself, not simply the fact it's compulsory.

But hes not wrong.German is a much nicer langauge than Irish.German just rolls off the tongue.....Irish doesn't.

JC 2K3

No

What bollocks....

How would you know anyway? How many fluent speakers have you heard speak?

Nehpets

Just because you disagree with me doesn't make me an anti-Irish bigot and I'm certainly not against the language itself. I don't want to learn it. I'd love if I had gone to a gaelscoil and was fluent now. But I don't have the time really now and I'm not going to make time, and since I have other subjects, it is annoying that I have to learn it. I prefer german. I used to hate it and found it difficult (start of 6th year), but I started getting grinds (finished today! whoo) and now I actually really like german. I'd even consider going to germany for a year or whatever to actually learn to talk it properly!

Is there gaeltachts for older people btw?

Anyway, that is pretty irrelevant. My point is, if I came across as anti-the language I didn't mean to.

EDIT: Well listening to german radio and german teachers (one is also my Irish teacher) I do think it sounds nicer. Some Irish dialects can sound nicer than others though. I probably wouldn't be able to tell which is which. I had a donegal man for my oral and he didn't seem too bad surprisingly

timmywex

whats with the poll?? it must be people outta school doing it!! they want us to suffer

pilchard

No

An Fhile wrote:

The problem with the Irish language is that too many children go into primary school thinking "Oh no, now I have to learn stupid Irish and it's really really hard and I don't want to." There's an inherited hatred of it because be people see Irish as a school subject rather than the beautiful language it really is. When the reluctance is there from such a young age it creates a barrier which negates the learning of the language.
..................
In my opinion it's not the curriculum or the status of the subject that need changing, it's the general mentality of the public.

I totally agree. when my siblings started school they were really excited about doing irish, and despite not starting to learn it till they were 11 they are now top of their classes... When they reached secondary school they questioned their love of the language because others did not 'like' it.

If children were taught to love the language from a younger age and had the same excitement as my brothers and sisters then maybe there would be a far greater love for and respect for the language.

fantacan

No

Nehpets wrote:

The Irish language is uglier than German in my opinion

Absolute Crap! You obviously have no fluency or understanding of the language if you feel the need to make ridiculous claims like that!

cson

No

fantacan wrote:

Absolute Crap! You obviously have no fluency or understanding of the language if you feel the need to make ridiculous claims like that!

Notice its his opinion

I distinctly remember you championing the cause of compulsory Irish as a debt of gratitude to those who died in the 1916 rising. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't democracy and freedom of speech one of their fundamental aims also? He's entitled to his opinion, you're entitled to yours.

fantacan

No

Yes i said it was something to be proud of because Irish men died for it.

Remind me which soldiers died in an attempt to spread the German language? Im just saying be proud of what you have and don't wish the death of something that is part of your identity that you or your people can never get back.

tolosenc

No

fantacan wrote:

Remind me which soldiers died in an attempt to spread the German language?

Let's not go there :rolleyes:

Less of the militantism, you spoil your credibility that way.

fantacan

No

Was just putting both languages in comparison in relation to who died for them since someone brought it up with me. Didnt mean to cause offence (or spark an international crisis) :rolleyes:

Enemy Of Fate

JC 2K3 wrote:

What bollocks....

How would you know anyway? How many fluent speakers have you heard speak?

Well I actually know quite a few, seeing as how there are several gaeltacht areas not that far from me.I also know one fluent german speaker, and I do German at school, and yes it is a far nicer sounding language than Irish.

And also who the **** cares how many Irish or German people died for their language?What the **** does that have to do with anything?

dan719

JC 2K3 wrote:

I liked Amélie.

And lol, you picked some rather exeptionally harsh sounding words to string together there Although the "bh" in bhuachaill and the "ch" in chailín aren't really harsh....

You're probably not used to hearing Irish spoken naturally if you think it's harsh sounding. It's nowhere near say German in that respect

German is a beautiful language. And considering english is germanic we should not really slag off the founding language of our own. German has a strictly logical nature missing from most languages, I think of the adjectial endings and the use of prepositions to determine cases, in that respect it is similar to Latin. Vergessen Sie nicht, bitte, alle wir sprechen hoch Deutsch.

Enemy Of Fate

dan719 wrote:

Vergessen Sie nicht, bitte, alle wir sprechen hoch Deutsch.

You not forget, we all speak high german?What?

fantacan

No

We can argue all night about which language is nicer sounding (we can all have our own views) That doesn't change the matter that we were born into a country where our original language was Irish. If you wish German was your language then just embrace their culture and forget yours.
There's plenty who'd love to forget their Irish culture. That's their choice if they want to spend life in the monotonous world of American culture with no idea who they are it's their problem. At least I'll value my roots.

Enemy Of Fate

fantacan wrote:

we were born into a country where our original language was Irish.

No we weren't......I was born in England.Seriously though no-one what the original language is doesn't matter.What matters is that the language of the country now is English, and it has been like that for the past 250+ years.And its not likely thats going to change anytime soon (if ever).

dan719

I didn't disagree that Irish is a beautiful sounding language. And to claim the germans are more americanised then the Irish is ridiculous. Hark 'closer to Boston then Berlin' Hark

dan719

Sorry I completely fecked that up, havent slept too much recently, should have put it i the imperetive. High german is the literary german we are taught in school. Wir sprechen hoch deutsch.

Enemy Of Fate

dan719 wrote:

Sorry I completely fecked that up, havent slept too much recently.

Hehehe.Don't worry about it.I know the feeling.

JC 2K3

No

Nehpets wrote:

Just because you disagree with me doesn't make me an anti-Irish bigot and I'm certainly not against the language itself. I don't want to learn it. I'd love if I had gone to a gaelscoil and was fluent now. But I don't have the time really now and I'm not going to make time, and since I have other subjects, it is annoying that I have to learn it. I prefer german. I used to hate it and found it difficult (start of 6th year), but I started getting grinds (finished today! whoo) and now I actually really like german. I'd even consider going to germany for a year or whatever to actually learn to talk it properly!

Is there gaeltachts for older people btw?

Anyway, that is pretty irrelevant. My point is, if I came across as anti-the language I didn't mean to.

EDIT: Well listening to german radio and german teachers (one is also my Irish teacher) I do think it sounds nicer. Some Irish dialects can sound nicer than others though. I probably wouldn't be able to tell which is which. I had a donegal man for my oral and he didn't seem too bad surprisingly

mmk, let's move away from how "ugly" it sounds. My comparitive remark about German was meant to be light hearted and was related to harshness of sounds rather than "ugliness".

Gaeltachts are regions where Irish is widely spoken. They are open to all ages.

dan719 wrote:

German is a beautiful language. And considering english is germanic we should not really slag off the founding language of our own. German has a strictly logical nature missing from most languages, I think of the adjectial endings and the use of prepositions to determine cases, in that respect it is similar to Latin. Vergessen Sie nicht, bitte, alle wir sprechen hoch Deutsch.

No one's slagging off anything.

Irish has a logical nature also, moreso than English, seen for example in it's changes to words in the genetive and dative cases.

Nehpets

JC 2K3 wrote:

Gaeltachts are regions where Irish is widely spoken. They are open to all ages.

doh, stupid question ta bron orm

JC 2K3

No

To add insult to injury, you said "Is there Gaeltachts...."

But it's late, maithím duit.