Where would I buy a tank ?

StephenC_IRL

Im serious, it doesnt have to fire, but it has to drive, Im looking for a world war 2 or later tank (German preffered) , Where would I get one and roughlt how much would I have to pay, also any special insurance required ??

johnnyskeleton

I would like to preface my comments by saying that I do not normally post in this forum, I just saw the title of this thread randomly and I had to look into it.

Basically, a tank is a firearm, and it is illegal to possess a firearm in public or in private without a licence. Even if it is defective, you still need the permission of the local garda superintendent.

I would be confident in saying that a private individual will not get a licence or permission to possess a tank, and your question about insurance baffles me - do you intend to drive it to work or something?

jhegarty

johnnyskeleton wrote:

I would like to preface my comments by saying that I do not normally post in this forum, I just saw the title of this thread randomly and I had to look into it.

Basically, a tank is a firearm, and it is illegal to possess a firearm in public or in private without a licence. Even if it is defective, you still need the permission of the local garda superintendent.

I would be confident in saying that a private individual will not get a licence or permission to possess a tank, and your question about insurance baffles me - do you intend to drive it to work or something?

Would it still be needed if the gun/weapon where deactivated.... and I presume he is talking about driving on private property (but I haven't been on the M50 lately , might be a possibility)....

Mad Mike

I have no idea why I am replying to this but Google is your friend: http://www.tanksforsale.co.uk/

Now you have got me reading the fupping thing - €50k for a T72 but they have something called a "cheap tank" for only €6k???

StephenC_IRL

i was thinking just drive it around, and yes it would be deactivated totally, as in no chance of it ever firing which it was my impression does not make it a firearm

johnnyskeleton

It's still a firearm, and if it is deactivated you still need a permit or the authorisation of the local garda superintendent source. Neither of which, I imagine, would be easy to obtain.

OS119

you can certainly buy them in the UK, once the weapons have been de-activated a tank is just a big green tracked vehicle.

the UK MoD often has disposal sales, lots of private companies offer 'drive a tank' experiences, so they are definately around post-service.

assuming you're in Ireland you may have a problem - tanks are in short supply in the Irish forces, so they don't come up for sale much - whereas getting one from the UK to Ireland is going to require some careful - and expensive - negotiation with the ferry operators. i'm not sure they'll accept your new 60 ton pride and joy as a 'private car'...

good luck, they are great fun to drive.

wingnut

Join the FCA and rob one

daveg

Imagine driving that over on the Ferry!!

Hagar

At least you won't get done for possessing a "concealed weapon".
Unless you camouflage it.

AidoCQS

StephenC_IRL wrote:

Im serious, it doesnt have to fire, but it has to drive, Im looking for a world war 2 or later tank (German preffered) , Where would I get one and roughlt how much would I have to pay, also any special insurance required ??

Ask Willie O' Dea, he will hook you up....

Only messing, try this gang

Manic Moran

daveg wrote:

Imagine driving that over on the Ferry!!

Chap I used to work with was a Leo2 gunner in the Dutch army. Every now and then, they'd take a battalion to Wales, for whatever reason. They just drove 'em on the cross-channel ferry.

Can you imagine being the guy with the wands directing traffic?

"Mercedes, over there.. Ford, follow the mercedes. Bus, take that lane... tank... just don't topple the ship"

NTM

StephenC_IRL

ok so basically heres what seems to be said :

i can buy a tank, and the uk is a good source

I need the garda seargent to confirm its deactivated

It will be hillarious driving it around but it will be fully legal

also a licence, would a shotgun licence do ? and how do i obtain such a licence ?

DublinWriter

StephenC_IRL wrote:

ok so basically heres what seems to be said :
i can buy a tank, and the uk is a good source

"Hi mate, I'm Irish, would you like to sell me a tank?"

StephenC_IRL wrote:

I need the garda seargent to confirm its deactivated

Superintendant actually. I would love to be there in the District Office when he-slash-she is going through the firearm applications of a rainy Monday morning....shotgun...fine...revolver...ok....tank??!?

StephenC_IRL wrote:

It will be hillarious driving it around but it will be fully legal

Yes, but just think of the carbon footprint. Basically, right now, you're drunk and it sounds like a fun idea. I personally think the novely will wear off at roughly the same rate as your hangover. Only time will tell.

StephenC_IRL wrote:

also a licence, would a shotgun licence do ? and how do i obtain such a licence ?

Sure, if you're intending to fire the shotgun from a standing position within the tank. All you have to do is write to the current Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell and....oh, wait a minute...

StephenC_IRL

ok, im not actually drunk at all , and ive been thinking about this for quite a while, and until i get billed i dont give a crap about carbon footprint, and im sure its not as bad as a hummer, here are the advantages :

1) not a chance of being clamped, ever
2) good luck doing any decent vandalism to it - immue from window breaking and burning out to the point of total destruction
3) less chance of me dying in a collision
4) vintage insurance
5) possibly the coolest vehicle on the roads
6) makes people who drive hybrids cried
7) implyed authority induced by fear from people who dont know its deactivated

Del2005

StephenC_IRL wrote:

ok, im not actually drunk at all , and ive been thinking about this for quite a while, and until i get billed i dont give a crap about carbon footprint, and im sure its not as bad as a hummer, here are the advantages :

1) not a chance of being clamped, ever
2) good luck doing any decent vandalism to it - immue from window breaking and burning out to the point of total destruction
3) less chance of me dying in a collision
4) vintage insurance
5) possibly the coolest vehicle on the roads
6) makes people who drive hybrids cried
7) implyed authority induced by fear from people who dont know its deactivated

Would the threads of the tracks not destroy any road you drive on? But it would be fun to p!ss of the tree huggers, by running down the tree:D

johnnyskeleton It's still a firearm, and if it is deactivated you still need a permit or the authorisation of the local garda superintendent source. Neither of which, I imagine, would be easy to obtain.

If this is the case how did Ian Paisley give Bertie a gun just before the election?

GerryRyan

Only on boards :rolleyes:

StephenC_IRL wrote:

ok, im not actually drunk at all , and ive been thinking about this for quite a while

1) not a chance of being clamped, ever
2) good luck doing any decent vandalism to it - immue from window breaking and burning out to the point of total destruction
3) less chance of me dying in a collision
4) vintage insurance
5) possibly the coolest vehicle on the roads
6) makes people who drive hybrids cried
7) implyed authority induced by fear from people who dont know its deactivated

Some extra points to consider:

Initial cost - unless you've won the lottery recently
Legality
Importing from UK (cost, paperwork, extra hassle)
Fuel Costs :eek:
Tax/Insurance etc etc
Practicallity (where would you drive it?)
Novelty wears off after a fe weeks, you're stuck with a tank

You'd be better off finding a person or company doing the whole 'drive a tank' experience ... try it a few times, then come back to this ...

smashey

There is an "extreme karting" place here in Donegal. Guess what? They also have a tank that you can drive over old cars.

Manic Moran

ThatGuy wrote:

Initial cost - unless you've won the lottery recently

You'll be surprised. Tanks are actually very cheap. I help out at our local tank museum, there are over 200 exhibits, of which over 60 are proper tanks. The owner says that the buildings he built to house them cost more than the tanks themselves. The most 'valuable' vehicle in his collection is a jeep, since they're eminently practical, and more people would compete over it than any other vehicle if he were to sell everything. Owning a Scud Missile is all very well and good (He owns two, actually, one on a tracked and one on a wheeled launcher), but really, what are you going to do with the thing?
By and large, de-activated tanks are being sold at scrap metal value, by the pound. When the British Army were selling off their Chieftains, they were going for less than a thousand pound sterling each. And they provided transport to the docks.

Legality

Others have pointed out that they may well be legal with the appropriate licenses, with one possible very large caveat: If Ireland has a prohibition on the driving of tracked vehicles on the open road, just make sure the tank retains British registration. Under EU rules, if a vehicle is legal to drive in the country it's registered in, you can drive it in any country in the EU. It's how a British chap did a drive for Charity getting his Scimitar from the UK to his house in France, stopping at war memorials on his way. Tracked vehicles are banned from the road in France, but it's a British vehicle, with British registration. Basically, the EU's rules on vehicles may well overrule any Irish rules on replica firearms in such a case.

Importing from UK (cost, paperwork, extra hassle)

Shouldn't be too bad, actually. As was mentioned, you can just take it across on the car ferry if you want. (It's how the guy mentioned above got to France).

Fuel Costs :eek:

OK, that could be an issue. Red diesel? Just use it to haul a plough from time to time.

Tax/Insurance etc etc

Only an issue of you drive it on the open road, correct?
A small armoured vehicle probably wouldn't be too far off the tax on a heavy goods vehicle anyway, I don't think. Damned if I know where you'd display the disc though.

Practicallity (where would you drive it?)

If the man has a field, there's as good a place as any. The who owns the 200 vehicles I mention above only has a space about the size of a football field to play in. There's a bloke in London who's been driving his Abbot SPG (Painted bright yellow) around the streets for years. Buckingham Palace, Tower Bridge, Sainsbury's.... This chap in Canada just took delivery last week of a brand-spanking-new T-55 (It's got 91km on the clock), it basically will live in the garage, maybe being brought out on parades.


http://www.nsnews.com/issues07/w051307/053207/news/053207nn5.html

Instead of kicking off with a 60-ton MBT, though, I might suggest you start smaller, maybe with a Scorpion or some such.

NTM

Victor

daveg wrote:

Imagine driving that over on the Ferry!!

On the Dover-Calais run, car ferries that could carry hundreds of cars, were restricted to 8 tanks.

StephenC_IRL wrote:

It will be hillarious driving it around but it will be fully legal

You may have a real problem with using a tracked vehicle on a public road (a) the track well tend to tear up the surface (b) weight limits.

StephenC_IRL

ok does anyone know a resonably small tank (under 3 tonnes) im aware thats probably stupid since the chiftan is 55 tonnes, but just incase

and on the road issue, if i got rubber tracks would that fix the road issue ???

Mad Mike

There you go.


Mind you if you are a little bit more ambitious you could always try and build yourself one of these.

Dr Strange

I posted this in our shooting forum:

Preusse wrote:

Don't know what to spend your SSIA's on? here's a nice deact, cost you a maximum of €21,000.00 and is ready to go (registered for street driving)

Here's a picture attached and also a link (it's in German).

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=1360143

You save on delivery costs as you can just drive it home.

Best,
Preusse

Best,
Preusse

testicle

Victor wrote:

You may have a real problem with using a tracked vehicle on a public road (a) the track well tend to tear up the surface (b) weight limits.

It's illegal, I belive ?

AidoCQS

We worked on a building in New Jersey (USA.. you know soprano's) and the building was designed to manufacture tanks and ship em around WWII, it was unbelivable, you could not core the floors or do anything on the floor below, the floors were just too thick

Manic Moran

StephenC_IRL wrote:

ok does anyone know a resonably small tank (under 3 tonnes) im aware thats probably stupid since the chiftan is 55 tonnes, but just incase

Assuming you mean 'tracked vehicle', you'd be looking at something like a Vickers interwar design, maybe a MkVI or a Universal Carrier, there should be a fair few of the latter on the public market. Only worry is that they don't come with rubber tracks, they're steel only.

It might be too soon for the Germans to be getting rid of their early Wiesels, but they'd fit the bill nicely.

It's illegal, I belive ?

I seem to recall a few years ago that they were marketing a tracked Hi-Ace for farm use in Ireland. Don't know if they intended for it to be legal on the road or not though.

the building was designed to manufacture tanks and ship em around WWII, it was unbelivable, you could not core the floors or do anything on the floor below, the floors were just too thick

Nothing to do with the tanks, more likely the equipment used to build them. Standard factory flooring will hold most any tank ever built (I'm not sure about the 200 ton Mouse). Remember, they have to avoid sinking into fields, so sinking into standard concrete will probably not be good for their military usefulness.

NTM

Dr Strange

Manic Moran wrote:

... (I'm not sure about the 200 ton Mouse) ...

Good old Maus. Now I give you...

RATTE:






Best,
Preusse

How the hell would you maintain it! You would be screwed if you had to change the treads for any reason. I could imagine the look on the face of someone in a garage when you come in to get it serviced!

jmayo

Ok can't go for main battle tanks since they weigh over 50 tonnes.
(not sure if Chieftain in Wicklow ?)
What about French AMX-13 they weighed in about 13/14 tonnes?
Not sure how hard to find?
Does it have to be tracked actual tank, becasue otherwise you can go a little wheeled APC ?
Tanksforsale in UK have Tatra OT64s for sale.
They are 8 wheeled, fully deactivated and supposedly road friendly with top speed of about 95kph. Not bad for 14,500 kg beast.
Nice little runabout and you can carry some friends in the back. View wouldn't be great though.
These are direct from Czech army.

http://www.tanksforsale.co.uk/OT64_SKOT_APC_for_sale_page.htm

PS if you do get one can I have a go please?

StephenC_IRL

yes you can have a go, and it does have to be tracked, thats the whole fun of it

yeah apparantly in the uk their road legal, i wonder can i slip the new goverment a brown envelope to change some things

KTRIC

How about an APC ?? They have the look of a tank but without the hassle of tracks.




I have fantasies about owning one of those and keeping my motorbike in the back, I'll do it some day.

StephenC_IRL

ok i admit that would be cool, but for the moment i just want a tracked vehicle with a huge barrel on the front

Judt

Isn't there a chap in London who drives around in a big yellow Scorpion he bought off of the brits? I think that the only requirement is that he constantly has an L plate on it - that is, can't drive it on motorways and suchlike.

Basically I think you'd want a light tank, not a main battle tank - even if only because you'd have trouble parking a challenger. You'll still roll over puny little hybrids in it.

I think you'd want to be fairly well off to do it, though. Tanks aren't the most fuel efficient vehicles on God's slightly less green earth.

Manic Moran

Judt wrote:

Isn't there a chap in London who drives around in a big yellow Scorpion he bought off of the brits?

It's an Abbot, I referred to it above.

NTM

I always liked classic cars and fancied getting myself a Wily World War 2 Jeep but a tank?

Damn!

Clare gunner

Errr...NO! Tanks do not come under firearms laws in Ireland.More under the road traffic act.
First off no army is going to sell you a fully working firing tank.You can be assured you will get a pipe[Barrel] for want of a better word,with no firing controls,breech closing mech,targeting mech ,etc on that. In other words anything that could be reworked to make it go Bang!
Tracked vechicles with bits of pipe stuck out of them are not firearms.At most your local Super [if he is a bollix] will want to get you for 35 quid for a permit to hold a deacted firearm authorisation permit.However the vechicle would be more dangerous than any firearm,if nicked.Remember the nutter who nicked one from the local national gaurd depot and went off for a spin in one in San Diego about 10 years ago? A few million dollars later worth of damage to public and private property.He was stopped by bottoming out on a highway dividers,and many 45 bullets from the local police force.Until then the police [armed] were powerless to stop him,and were considering calling the California governor to order the nat gaurd to bring up a anti tank missile to stop it.So you could imagine the FUN here if such an incident occured?
OTOH, yes it is perfectly legal to drive on road[Albiet slow,noisey,and uncomfortable,and not very much fun on ice or snow roads].
And a little known Road traffic act fact here.It is more than likely road tax exempt!Somthing about military vechicles being exempt from road tax.Now,it doesnt specify IRISH military vechicles!Current or past ones either. Sooo,you would really only need insurance.Heavy on the collision side of things methinks.
Nice hobby,for a rich man[See Tom Clancy& Co].Or to make a point at the next crustie global tree hugging love in.:D .Or to confound the Gaurds.But not a very practical day to day solution for the school runn...or maybe yes.

Anyone got a K5 Blazer or Hummer for sale???Bit more modest meself.:D

Dave!

1. Head over to the UK
2. Buy one of these
3. 'Drive' it across the Irish Sea
4. ...
5. Profit!

johnnyskeleton

Clare gunner wrote:

Errr...NO! Tanks do not come under firearms laws in Ireland.More under the road traffic act.

Yes they do - Firearms Act 1925 s1.(1) "In this Act—
the "firearm" means a lethal firearm or other lethal weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet, or other missile can be discharge"

More to the point, s2 suggests that gun barrells on ships are also firearms: s2.(3)(e) exempts "the possession of a firearm or ammunition on board a ship as part of the equipment of the ship"

Both of Road Traffic and Firearms legislation can apply to a tank.

Clare gunner wrote:

Tracked vechicles with bits of pipe stuck out of them are not firearms.

What's a shotgun but a pipe with a firing mechanism? If you deactivate the firing mechanism the shotgun does not become a pipe, it becomes a deactivated shotgun. To give you an example, if a person went into a bank and held it up with a deactivated shotgun, they couldn't get away with it by saying that they were just showing off their pipe to the teller. A tank is a weapon, it meets the definition of a firearm, and if you deactivate it it becomes a deactivated weapon - it doesn't become a completely different - and harmless - thing called a "tracked vehicle[] with bits of pipe stuck out of [it]"

Clare gunner wrote:

At most your local Super [if he is a bollix] will want to get you for 35 quid for a permit to hold a deacted firearm authorisation permit.

He is entitled to refuse to give a permit. If he is a "bollix" or a rational human being, I think he would refuse to give the permit unless there was a more concrete reason than "I wanna get pissed and scare hippies" or whatever it is.

Clare gunner wrote:

OTOH, yes it is perfectly legal to drive on road[Albiet slow,noisey,and uncomfortable,and not very much fun on ice or snow roads].
And a little known Road traffic act fact here.It is more than likely road tax exempt!Somthing about military vechicles being exempt from road tax.Now,it doesnt specify IRISH military vechicles!Current or past ones either. Sooo,you would really only need insurance.Heavy on the collision side of things methinks.

Where do you get your information from? For example, the citizen's information website doesn't mention anything about military vehicles. If someone did want to drive a tank on the roads (for whatever reason) it would still have to meet the same criteria that any other mechanically propelled vehicle has to meet - it must be roadworthy, the driver must have the right category of licence, I think it would probably have to be taxed, and it would need insurance.

Del2005 wrote:

If this is the case how did Ian Paisley give Bertie a gun just before the election?

Perhaps he had a firearms certificate or permit. He may also have had diplomatic immunity. Also, even if he was committing an offence, who is going to arrest him?

Ronan Raver77

There was always a tank in a field between Carlow and Kilkenny promoting a paintball venue..It ain't there anymore..Maybe somebody else will know bout it.

Del2005

If a tank is always a tank then how do they sell the ex-military JEEPs and other vechiles? If they ever a a gun mount on then you need to get a firearms cert to have one? Is the tank not just a heavily armoured bull dozer with a couple of guns stuck into it(very simplistic discription)? If the guns are removed it just becomes a bad bulldozer.