Beating the delay

zuutroy

Has anyone ever gone to an event and used Betfair mobile to clean up? I'd imagine in stuff like cricket, snooker and tennis it'd be possible to make a fortune by just laying the second a wicket falls and then backing when the TV dependent gamblers catch up. Then just green it up and repeat ad-infinitum!

Dodge

You'd need an ultra fast mobile connection to do any real damage but there are plenty of people who do it.

Bernard Hopkins

After a long time rattling my brains, i found the fastest possible feed, I also did a little bit of homework , and have it narrowed to about 1 1/2 seconds off real-time.

test it out. :

turn on the radio and turn down the volume on your tv

saturday football games on setanta or rte ,

radio coverage is on MW (medium wave).
Scottish football being the most advantagious !!

you may not beat betfair, but you might beat the bookie's before they change their odds!!
setanta is miles behind,... they might as well post you out a dvd of the game.

ArmaniJeanss

zuutroy wrote:

Has anyone ever gone to an event and used Betfair mobile to clean up? I'd imagine in stuff like cricket, snooker and tennis it'd be possible to make a fortune by just laying the second a wicket falls and then backing when the TV dependent gamblers catch up. Then just green it up and repeat ad-infinitum!

Cricket is a dangerous one here... There are situations where losing a wicket will be regarded by the market as a positive thing. e.g, England chasing a total in a 1dayer, behind the required runrate but with plenty of wickets in hand, Bell loses his wicket and Pieterson is next man in... if you do your lay and back in this situation you will likely be red, not green.

So as well as the mobile technology you need to be aware of how the 'new' market will look after the wicket falls.

AJs.

zuutroy

ArmaniJeanss wrote:

So as well as the mobile technology you need to be aware of how the 'new' market will look after the wicket falls.

AJs.

OK, was just using cricket as an example. That you know whats gonna happen to the market is understood.

Chucky the tree

It constantly done in tennis and snooker. Was a thread about it here for the UK master i think it was, so lad in the audience cleaning up. If i had the money a trip too wimbledon for the tennis would b well worth it.

zuutroy

Chucky the tree wrote:

It constantly done in tennis and snooker. Was a thread about it here for the UK master i think it was, so lad in the audience cleaning up. If i had the money a trip too wimbledon for the tennis would b well worth it.

I was going to go to the Crucible next year anyway. Maybe this will pay for my trip!

Bateman

Laptops have been banned in the tennis anyway, not sure about the snooker.

Bernard Hopkins

phones are banned at the snooker ,.... the rumour was that it was an independant reporter in the press box, who would naturally have permission to use his lap-top.

the bugger has about 170 euro of mine ..... and i want it back !!!!

im serious about the radio,..... 3 fiull seconds quicker than the tv feed.
check it out ........ its already made me a massive pile of cash.

the radio is only slightly slower than a phone conversation .
so you might as well be getting a full update from a friend at the event, who feeds you thru his phone !! instant.

im surprised so few people have copped it to be honest.

i see people scrambling to change to analogue tv, whilst on betfair,.... silly - turn on the radio commentry. (not online radio).

good oppurtunity will be the play-off " Derby and WestBrom" ....
go to bbc5 live on MW .

zuutroy

Good info Bernard! Will give it a try. The phone ban mustn't be too well policed as I heard about 20 phones goin off during this years even.

wb

im serious about the radio,..... 3 fiull seconds quicker than the tv feed.
check it out ........ its already made me a massive pile of cash.

the radio is only slightly slower than a phone conversation .
so you might as well be getting a full update from a friend at the event, who feeds you thru his phone !! instant.

im surprised so few people have copped it to be honest.

i see people scrambling to change to analogue tv, whilst on betfair,.... silly - turn on the radio commentry. (not online radio).

good oppurtunity will be the play-off " Derby and WestBrom" ....
go to bbc5 live on MW .

Interesting idea. I presume you use a bot with one click betting to fire in the bet as soon as the commentator says "Goal"?

What happens if it is offside?

zuutroy

wb wrote:

What happens if it is offside?

LOL!....There really is no risk free betting is there! Though presumably in that situation if you lay the team who 'conceded', you'll be able to back them at much the same price once the market settles after the offside

Chucky the tree

Rugby is another good sport, since odds fluctuate alot and there is no suspension.

zuutroy

Another question on the footie: How do you beat betfair to the 'suspended' market. If you're 3 seconds ahead of TV and it takes 5 seconds to place a bet then by the time your bet hits the market it'll be suspended no?

wb

Chucky the tree wrote:

Rugby is another good sport, since odds fluctuate alot and there is no suspension.

So the market does not suspend after a score?

What other sports offer this? I know darts does, but probably would not get radio coverage. How about GAA? Is the market suspended after each point?

zuutroy

I think it only really happens in soccer because the complexion of the markets change so much given how few scores there are in a game.

zuutroy

What would be the best way to take advantage of the radio advantage? Laying the conceding team, correct score, over/under? Just a matter of which market reacts most to a goal I suppose....and I dont know the answer!

wb

I can't see how it is done on football with the delay though.

zuutroy

wb wrote:

I can't see how it is done on football with the delay though.

Maybe the market is only suspended to people who haven't clicked the 'bet' button if you get me...Bets that have been submitted already might slip in?

Diamondmaker

Interesting thread...

would this work for betting on next scorer?

Just logged into my PP account ( as there is no live game I cant be sure ) but it seems that you could select a player or team as next scorer just as you here and place a bet in about 3 secs....

macshadow

zuutroy wrote:

What would be the best way to take advantage of the radio advantage? Laying the conceding team, correct score, over/under? Just a matter of which market reacts most to a goal I suppose....and I dont know the answer!

Next Goal would be the best bet in that situation. on BF.
Also on motorsport doesn't suspend the market.

zuutroy

macshadow wrote:

Next Goal would be the best bet in that situation.

Yeah, I guess as an outright bet thats the obvious choice now that I think of it. The liquidity is usually quite low on that market, but I guess any game on 5-Live is going to have quite good liquidity.

chump

betfair takes 5 seconds for bet to be placed after submitted doesn't it?

zuutroy

chump wrote:

betfair takes 5 seconds for bet to be placed after submitted doesn't it?

Yes but I'm not sure if it's possible that it can be matched somehow anyway. I envisage a load of us with the wireless next to the computer tomorrow afternoon!

macshadow

Well what i mean is if the goal is disallowed you can trade your position for little or no loss.
Maybe with one click and live radio feed?
you could try motorsport f1 with cars retiring and bad pit stops ect?

Bateman

GAA doesn't suspend on points OR goals. I know this because I backed Armagh seconds before Donegal got their farcical goal to sneak it. :mad:

Bernard Hopkins

lol,.... i dont mean blatent thieving of next scorer,......

you might get paid out 2 oe 3 times (on the bookmakers)
, before you are banned/restricted. bookies are no fools.
with betfair,... you'll never beat them using the radio,... not only have you to beat the betfair employee who hits the "SUSPENDED" button,.....but you got to beat the 10,000 guys trying to be fastest finger first !!!!

you can only hit the bookmakers.

i've done my homework , and am easyily 6 - 8000 units up.

im not saying how i bet here,..... but there are only a few main markets that i use, with a 25% chance of getting my bet down before the bookie suspends.

generally an instant profit of 50 euro on a 200euro bet.

send me a PM if you are interested in more info , bookmakers always read the forums to find out info,... no doubt some may find this thread of interest.

Bernard Hopkins

what you need is markets that dont have the time recorded,.....
if you put a bet on chelsea to score first , and the slip says the bet placed at 4.11 pm ,... and they see chelsea have just scored @ exactly 4.11pm , eyebrows shall be raised, and placed bets monitored, particularly if the customer is a continual winner.

generally active accounts are reviewed every day or every 2nd day by the bookie, they know what they are looking for,.... so i have to vary my bets, small wagers on various other sports , so it dosent look like im making my money on a small number of markets.

Bernard Hopkins

macshadow wrote:

Well what i mean is if the goal is disallowed you can trade your position for little or no loss.
Maybe with one click and live radio feed?
you could try motorsport f1 with cars retiring and bad pit stops ect?

no need to use radio with the motor sport,...... the official fia site has info provided on their website before the tv shows it.

register, and use the live timing facility. ever so slighly quicker feed than the tv,...... but absolutely invaluable service for the "in-running" qualifying market on betfair.

find out for yourself who is setting the quickest section times and lap times, before the commentator decides to tell you !!! I layed Hamilton during the final qualifying yesterday,.... cause i knew he lost half a second in the second sector, whilst alonso was setting the fastest first sector. At that stage Hamilton was down around 1.22 for pole .

all those other punters are waiting for brundle or kennedy to telll them who is setting the fastest sectors,....... I often know who is on their flying lap by looking at the first and second sectorson the fia timing facility.,.....and how well they are comparing , before the commentators let us know during the 3rd sector !!

a useful tool also for betfair - "fastest lap" of the race market.

Bernard Hopkins

another useful thing is to get urself "firefox" ,..... and perform these tricks to speed up ur execution of bets


http://www.ubuntugeek.com/speed-up-firefox-web-browser.html

Aedh Baclamh

Difference between the coverage on TG4 and Eurosport for the tennis.

Bateman

Yeah I noticed Eurosport were slightly behind BBC on the tennis today alright. Miniscule difference though.

Aedh Baclamh

3 second difference actually. 5 second delay on the betting on Betfair but if you were good enough you could have made some money.

Dodge

Bateman wrote:

Yeah I noticed Eurosport were slightly behind BBC on the tennis today alright. Miniscule difference though.

Even bigger when the analogue v digital difference come in

Whatever you do don't rely on Setanta for an up to date clock. I was trading on UEFA cup football last year (think it ws in Biucharest) and betfair suspended the market before the guy crossed it for someone to heaad in. Couldn't believe how far behind it was

Bateman

Cable - digital difference can be usefu alright. The whole theme of this thread doesn't appeal to me at all to be honest, clocks or no clocks. If people make big money from it then more power to them. It's not really gambling though.

zuutroy

Bateman wrote:

It's not really gambling though.

Haha...thats the point...! The further from gambling you are..the more you're onto a good thing!

wb

zuutroy wrote:

Haha...thats the point...! The further from gambling you are..the more you're onto a good thing!

Hit the nail on the head there.



I quite enjoy trading, but one must detach themselves from the punter point of view.

I've wrote an article on trading:

http://www.letsbet.ie/articles/betting_guides/introduction_to_trading

That's the problem with a lot of punters though... they won't think outside the box.

Bateman

wb; I'm familiar with trading/greening out (the under/over 1.5 market in the u21 championships is handy and I expect it will continue as so), but the theme of this thread is theft from the bookmakers, and/or other betfair users by beating the clock to back an event that has already happened. This, and trading, are two totally different activities. Now I've no moral objection to it, as I said more power to those who partake in it, but using large amounts of money in a split-second game isn't for me. Carry on though, it's an interesting theme.

Bernard Hopkins

nice article ,......... enjoyed that.

yeah,.every night before i go to bed,........ i throw my betfair balance down on asking crazy prices that nobody in thier right mind should offer,.....

some days i find they are accepted in full or in part,...where i quickly lay off for free profit.

I like free bets,......... i like winning but i cant stand losing,...so i gamble with the least calculated risk available,..........trading.
its easy as a passtime,...... and a little earner on the side.

my interest in sport has evolved so far since i got into this trading lark.

Bernard Hopkins

QUOTE BATEMAN: "but the theme of this thread is theft from the bookmakers, and/or other betfair users by beating the clock to back an event that has already happened."

firstly,... you arent "beating the clock" ,.. thats impossible,
you can only beat the timing of others, who are purposely and soley there to take the money from your acount and put it in theirs !! second theft is unlawful,.which this most certainly ISNT !!!

there's nothing illeagal about this form of betting,
its not even suspect for me, i mean theres no fixing or anything like it.
the traders who win most are the traders with the fastest info or the quickest info available.
thers a massive competitive race going on,... and that is to be the FIRST to take the BEST price available.

of course the biggest traders of all are actually the BOOKMAKERS themselves.

as ithink i said earlier , that the blatent theft doing the "NEXT TEAM TO SCORE" market is wrong,... and you wont get away with it very often , and if you do suceed you will be issued with a massive restriction that will prevent you ever placing a bet above 5 euro ,..ever again !!!!

but to go to the antepost football markets (which have no delay whilst betting),..... lumping your money on a good price as you get the info first is totally "ok" in my eyes.
you dont need to watch for more than 5 seconds further to see the flurry of people who are also both backing AND laying to gain advantagoeus positions!!!

I wish I had the bottle to risk outright bets from the start of football games etc.,..... but in-running trading is so much more fruitful with absolute minimal risk.
get into it ,..... rewards a-plenty !

Aedh Baclamh

Bateman - What's so good about the 1.5 goals market in the U21s?

Bateman

10/06/07 Grp A Netherlands 1 - 0 Israel
10/06/07 Grp A Portugal 0 - 0 Belgium
11/06/07 Grp B Czech Republic 0 - 0 England
11/06/07 Grp B Serbia 1 - 0 Italy

Trading under 1.5 goals last season was one of the few ways I made consistent profit on football and I know a couple of others who did as well. Who knows, the thing could explode into life any day now but I doubt it.

Maybe it's a bit far-fetched, but with a lot of top-class club managers being tagged as negative (Mourinho, Benitez, Capello spring to mind, I'm sure there are others), I think these attitudes spread. And if you tell U21s to play defensive and sit patiently, they're more likely to do it than top-class pros. All of which brings me back to it being far-fetched, and the possibility that the goals might start coming any day now.

Aedh Baclamh

So you back under 1.5 before the start of the game and then lay as the game goes on? Or do you just leave it completely?

Bateman

Aedh Baclamh wrote:

Or do you just leave it completely?

That depends on loads of factors.

Aedh Baclamh

Bad night tonight for it.

Bernard Hopkins

Did anybody cop how much time TG4 had over Setanta sports 1 the other night during the Sunderland game ????

Even the Betfair staff were miles behind, the "Suspend button staff clicker" was 8 seconds off the pace.

Theres going to be a lot of casualties for the english punters if it happens again.
That whole wave of punters eeking to trade, getting their feed on digital.

Bernard Hopkins

here we go guys,.......
time to tuen over the English bookies !!!

expect a healthy week's wages in the next 90 miutes

Galway vs. sunderland TG4

Aedh Baclamh

8 seconds makes it impossible though in fairness.