What Does Bertie Have To Do To Lose Popularity???

jimd2

I wonder what Bertie Ahern could get away with and still get the votes. After all it was him that signed charlie's blank cheques, he has panicked into calling the election at 8am on a sunday morning because of the Mahon Tribunal being a potential banana skin. He neednt have worried because it he seems inpeneterable.
When you look at the state of the health servce, public service pay 40% higher than privatre sector, energy prices at the level they are at and the state of public transport PLUS all of the shenanigans and he STILL maintains his vote.

I reckon that he would have to mug someone and it to be caught on CCTV for him to lose any votes and he would probably not lose too many at that.

Maybe I am being hypocritical as I voted for a Fianna Fail guy on a personal vote.

Nuttzz

jimd2 wrote:

Maybe I am being hypocritical as I voted for a Fianna Fail guy on a personal vote.

FFS stop cribbing then, you compalin about bertie and then vote for his party

i71jskz5xu42pb

jimd2 wrote:

Maybe I am being hypocritical as I voted for a Fianna Fail guy on a personal vote.

There is no "maybe" about it - if the FF'er you voted for gets in he will vote for Bertie as Taoiseach. Your vote was a vote for Bertie.

ednwireland

jimd2 wrote:

I wonder what Bertie Ahern could get away with and still get the votes. After all it was him that signed charlie's blank cheques, he has panicked into calling the election at 8am on a sunday morning because of the Mahon Tribunal being a potential banana skin. He neednt have worried because it he seems inpeneterable.
When you look at the state of the health servce, public service pay 40% higher than privatre sector, energy prices at the level they are at and the state of public transport PLUS all of the shenanigans and he STILL maintains his vote.

I reckon that he would have to mug someone and it to be caught on CCTV for him to lose any votes and he would probably not lose too many at that.

Maybe I am being hypocritical as I voted for a Fianna Fail guy on a personal vote.

yep you are part of the problem you voted ff

jon1981

the way i look at it is... Bertie was no differerent to any other politician back in the day...they were all on the take and it was the way politics was then. I say leave him off as long as hes not doing it now.

Tar.Aldarion

Lol, you voted ff and made this thread? What?

BMH

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Lol, you voted ff and made this thread? What?

It's ok, it was a personal vote...

MisterAnarchy

Seems most people only care about the economy .
Corruption ,third world infrastructure, a third world health service,third world amenities and shoe box housing can be oveloooked.

Awayindahils

It's the Teflon Taoiseach syndrome. He was always going to be reelected. And bad as some things are the last decade hasn't exactly been what you might call disasterous.

Ardent

Brian Lenihan on radio just there stating that FF didn't expect to do this well in the election, they are shocked. Bertie was never in any danger with the f*cking sheep in this country...

radioman

Ardent wrote:

Bertie was never in any danger with the f*cking sheep in this country...

God you come across so elegant...

It's a democracy. The majority of people in the country believe Fianna Fáil would lead the country best. Deal with it.

ainemolloy1

Very disappointed to hear the early results on RTE. I don't have a problem with Fianna Fail per se. But i do have a problem with a party that is in bed with vested interest that keep our country from progressing. I always just vote for the smaller parties for the sake of democracy. 15 years with the same old faces is no good for democracy.

Every time I turn on the radio I hear people complaining (and rightly so ) about the allowance for carers, the apartheid health care system, the crammed prefabs that pass for classrooms, the rip off prices, the bad planning etc etc...

But I wonder where all that anger goes on polling day. For me Bertie is the master politician as he has made a career out of sitting on the fence. He is now it seems untouchable, and it reminds me of in previous years when politicians with very dubious characters regarding their tax affairs ,crooks basically topped the poll in their areas, I always found that very bizarre. Not that I think Bertie is a crook, it's the power and not the money Bertie likes.

So finally here are the 3 ways Bertie could fall out of favour with the Paddy's over the next 5 years:

1. Take off of German Economy = interests rate going through the roof = property crash (note there has been around 40 property booms in Europe since WWII, all crashed and burned, no soft landings) = horrendous recession as the vast amount of new jobs in the last 5 years, for men have been directly in the construction industry, and for women in the public services ( paid for by property related taxes) = Bye Bye Bertie

2. Value of the dollar slides to 1.5 against the Euro = much higher costs for US multinationals for no added productivity (nurses?). (2,000,000 people working in Ireland, 100,000 in multinationals producing over 85% of exports, what the heck is everybody else doing?) = Bye Bye US multinationals = Bye Bye Bertie

3. Equalization of EU corporate taxes, new french premier is making noises about this. (Irish politicians saying they will veto this, but if France starts making enough noise and Germany does the same , methinks Irish politicians will be shouting at the wind.) = Bye Bye US multinationals = Bye Bye Bertie

But nobody wants to hear this of course, and the majority of economists put on the telly / radio work for banks (mortgages?).

Of course if none of this happens in 5 years time, you will see a 20 foot statue of a happy go lucky Bertie with an empty suitcase, except for his lunch money on O'Connell street. Of course you'll have to pay a toll to get on to O'Connell street then.

Seriously though I voted against the government as the opposition were saying (quietly) the same kind of things. I think it's a missed opportunity!!!

Smarmore

Those 3 points would still hold no matter who was in power though. What makes you think anyone else is better equipped than Fianna Fail to handle it? You think Enda Kenny would put up a better fight against these things than the likes of Bertie and Cowen??

Floppybits

ainemolloy1 wrote:

But I wonder where all that anger goes on polling day. For me Bertie is the master politician as he has made a career out of sitting on the fence. He is now it seems untouchable, and it reminds me of in previous years when politicians with very dubious characters regarding their tax affairs ,crooks basically topped the poll in their areas, I always found that very bizarre. Not that I think Bertie is a crook, it's the power and not the money Bertie likes.

To me it looks like the PD's have taken the anger.

Floppybits

Smarmore wrote:

Those 3 points would still hold no matter who was in power though. What makes you think anyone else is better equipped than Fianna Fail to handle it? You think Enda Kenny would put up a better fight against these things than the likes of Bertie and Cowen??

I guess that we will never know now or are we are ever going to know with the attitude saying can the other do better than whats there, when they are not given the chance?

jmayo

Smarmore wrote:

Those 3 points would still hold no matter who was in power though. What makes you think anyone else is better equipped than Fianna Fail to handle it? You think Enda Kenny would put up a better fight against these things than the likes of Bertie and Cowen??

Yes but if FG got in don't you think at next election FF/PDs would be crowing how we told you not to throw it all away and we could have saved the economy.

Now FF will be there to explain how the economic boom they built fell apart over night and left people with 40 year mortgages for houses that have dropped 30/40% in value.

ainemolloy1

Smarmore wrote:

Those 3 points would still hold no matter who was in power though. What makes you think anyone else is better equipped than Fianna Fail to handle it? You think Enda Kenny would put up a better fight against these things than the likes of Bertie and Cowen??

There is a reason for the champagne and backslapping by developers at the Galway races every year! To be honest I was far from impressed with the quality of the opposition, but as I said they at least acknowledged the problems I listed. FF just keeps telling everybody everything is gonna be okay, don't worry your sweet little head about it Uncle Bertie will look after ya.

Can anybody possibly tell me what with all the funds at the governments disposal over the last 10 years is there any single major issue in social life where there has been major progression towards a better system for all of us.

Anybody?

lostexpectation

gainsburg ahern and gainsburg Ireland

ainemolloy1

jmayo wrote:

Now FF will be there to explain how the economic boom they built fell apart over night and left people with 40 year mortgages for houses that have dropped 30/40% in value.

Ha, funny you should mention that. I was waiting for an hour for the bus to turn up (supposed to be every 10 mins) to travel the 2 hours it takes to get to Bray from the city center and started a conversation with a lady in her 60's.

She said she was gonna vote FF so they'd have to take the blame for the downturn in the economy in the coming years. She said that if the opposition got in then next time around it would give FF the excuse to blame FG for it.
I thought that was quite clever of her.

ronanp

radioman wrote:

God you come across so elegant...

It's a democracy. The majority of people in the country believe Fianna Fáil would lead the country best. Deal with it.

No they don't, you retard. Since when is ~40% a majority?

radioman

ronanp wrote:

No they don't, you retard. Since when is ~40% a majority?

~40% voted Fianna Fáil, and by my reckoning over 10% voted for a party/candidate they knew would support Fianna Fáil in government if needed

Therefore over 50%, a majority, voted for a government led by Fianna Fáil.

And your comments on my mental state are unneccessary :rolleyes:

ronanp

ronanp wrote:

No they don't, you retard. Since when is ~40% a majority?

1 week ban

Giblet

Ardent wrote:

Brian Lenihan on radio just there stating that FF didn't expect to do this well in the election, they are shocked. Bertie was never in any danger with the f*cking sheep in this country...

Yeah all the sheep baa baa! We should have all been independent and voted for who YOU wanted!

Crash

radioman wrote:

~40% voted Fianna Fáil, and by my reckoning over 10% voted for a party/candidate they knew would support Fianna Fáil in government if needed

Therefore over 50%, a majority, voted for a government led by Fianna Fáil.

And your comments on my mental state are unneccessary :rolleyes:

no, over 10% voted for a candidate that MIGHT end up in an FF government. or a FG government. which doesnt equal 50%, due to that inconsistency of which side they'd end up with.

jimd2

Looking back at the blind faith the majority of our people had in Ahern you have to wonder just how many were voting blindly or based on family traditions all those years?

He was completely reeelection focused, economic policies were based on maximising the effects on the chances of getting reelected and you have to hand it to him that they were v effective at that.

One thing also, he would not have been so stupid as Cowan was and to appoint two ministers in key positions of Tanaiste & also Finance that were so out of their depth.

However, the rumours are that he is eyeing up the Park, I reckon he is too cute and will realise that almost anyone in the country would beat him at this stage as I think people have finally seen through him.

yoshytoshy

An image representing fianna fail and it's voters.

dixiefly

Bertie was a sickening individual who has not received the level of criticism he deserves for the mess we are in - To think that he said people should commit suicide for predicting (correctly) the demise of the economy says it all really.
Let's hope his legacy in history includes the state that he left the country's finances in.

Dannyboy83

ainemolloy1 wrote: »

Very disappointed to hear the early results on RTE. I don't have a problem with Fianna Fail per se. But i do have a problem with a party that is in bed with vested interest that keep our country from progressing. I always just vote for the smaller parties for the sake of democracy. 15 years with the same old faces is no good for democracy.

Every time I turn on the radio I hear people complaining (and rightly so ) about the allowance for carers, the apartheid health care system, the crammed prefabs that pass for classrooms, the rip off prices, the bad planning etc etc...

But I wonder where all that anger goes on polling day. For me Bertie is the master politician as he has made a career out of sitting on the fence. He is now it seems untouchable, and it reminds me of in previous years when politicians with very dubious characters regarding their tax affairs ,crooks basically topped the poll in their areas, I always found that very bizarre. Not that I think Bertie is a crook, it's the power and not the money Bertie likes.

So finally here are the 3 ways Bertie could fall out of favour with the Paddy's over the next 5 years:

1. Take off of German Economy = interests rate going through the roof = property crash (note there has been around 40 property booms in Europe since WWII, all crashed and burned, no soft landings) = horrendous recession as the vast amount of new jobs in the last 5 years, for men have been directly in the construction industry, and for women in the public services ( paid for by property related taxes) = Bye Bye Bertie

2. Value of the dollar slides to 1.5 against the Euro = much higher costs for US multinationals for no added productivity (nurses?). (2,000,000 people working in Ireland, 100,000 in multinationals producing over 85% of exports, what the heck is everybody else doing?) = Bye Bye US multinationals = Bye Bye Bertie

3. Equalization of EU corporate taxes, new french premier is making noises about this. (Irish politicians saying they will veto this, but if France starts making enough noise and Germany does the same , methinks Irish politicians will be shouting at the wind.) = Bye Bye US multinationals = Bye Bye Bertie

But nobody wants to hear this of course, and the majority of economists put on the telly / radio work for banks (mortgages?).

Of course if none of this happens in 5 years time, you will see a 20 foot statue of a happy go lucky Bertie with an empty suitcase, except for his lunch money on O'Connell street. Of course you'll have to pay a toll to get on to O'Connell street then.

Seriously though I voted against the government as the opposition were saying (quietly) the same kind of things. I think it's a missed opportunity!!!

Jeebus, that was a good post.

All 3 things have hit us at the same time.

diverdriver

Here's another one:

She said she was gonna vote FF so they'd have to take the blame for the downturn in the economy in the coming years. She said that if the opposition got in then next time around it would give FF the excuse to blame FG for it.
I thought that was quite clever of her.

This whole disaster was well telegraphed back then wasn't it? It makes you wonder why the hell FF did so little about it until now. A further nail in their coffin.

Dannyboy83

diverdriver wrote: »

Here's another one:



This whole disaster was well telegraphed back then wasn't it? It makes you wonder why the hell FF did so little about it until now. A further nail in their coffin.

Thats the thing that has me puzzled.
The inaction.

I can remember people in 2005 talking about Dell closing.
I can remember people saying the exact same things in 2005.

We've known what the future held for 4 years, to a degree at least.
And it whatever about reform and averting a crisis, it seems that FF didn't even have so much as a diagram of a contingency plan.
And still don't!

I understand that a recession was obviously much less prominent in the public's view of the situation.............but even Hitler had contingency plans, and his Reich was supposed to last a thousand years!

cm2000

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Thats the thing that has me puzzled.
The inaction.

I can remember people in 2005 talking about Dell closing.
I can remember people saying the exact same things in 2005.

We've known what the future held for 4 years, to a degree at least.

you knew that there was going to be the greatest financial crisis since the 1920's??? Well done man. Are people here really under the impression that without the financial crisis we'd be in this mess. The Brits are the same. The Tory pary are 20% higher than labor in polls over there.

Daithinski

radioman wrote: »

...The majority of people in the country believe Fianna Fáil would lead the country best. Deal with it.

That quote should be in past tense. Believed. They don't still believe.

And unfortunately we will be dealing with it. We are/will be the ones losing jobs, homes and our standard of living.


The FF pigs who were the ones in charge when this shambles was created and nurtured can relax.

They will not be suffering the losses that the general public will be, as they still have their well paying cushy job with all the perks that go with it.

They are useless scummers who should all be beaten with a stick (especially that kn0b end Bertie) and then banished to some desolate island to think about what they have done.

Pride Fighter

cm2000 wrote: »

Are people here really under the impression that without the financial crisis we'd be in this mess.

It was FF incompetent policies that led us into the mess. The economy relying on a property bubble is what got us into this mess. Bertie is a creep, knew this mess was coming and jumped ship so he could be considered a great lad.

cm2000

Pride Fighter wrote: »

It was FF incompetent policies that led us into the mess. The economy relying on a property bubble is what got us into this mess. Bertie is a creep, knew this mess was coming and jumped ship so he could be considered a great lad.

and it was the incompetent British, German, French, central European, eastern European, Japanese, American, Central American, South American???????

Dannyboy83

cm2000 wrote: »

you knew that there was going to be the greatest financial crisis since the 1920's??? Well done man.

No, I had no idea of that.
But the impact of that, while to no degree miniscule, is not the core issue.
China is still expecting growth of 8%, Russia 4% and India 2%

Their countries, while suffering, are being competently managed.
Ours is not.

Therefore a global crisis such as we have, is only amplified in intensity throughout this crisis.

Don't forget, we entered the crisis, with *on paper* one of the strongest position in Europe, among the lowest unemployment in Europe and one of the lowest national debts in Europe.

Why didn't we clear all our debt and store reserves like Russia and China?
Why is there still no reform?
Why are we strangling the economy with poor taxation?
Why are the banks still not honouring their responsibilities, after the taxpayer has saved them from complete catastrophe?

The incompetence of this government in every aspect is what has made this crisis so much worse for Ireland than any other country in a similar position.

Are people here really under the impression that without the financial crisis we'd be in this mess. The Brits are the same. The Tory pary are 20% higher than labor in polls over there.

Of course we would be in trouble, but not in a mess.
There is talk of the IMF and EU bailouts.

I haven't heard that mentioned in the UK, despite a similar failure by their regulators.

We were aware of our main vulnerabilities.
They are outlined above by Aine.
There was no action to close the vulnerability.
There still isn't.

The other vulnerability of which we weren't aware, that of the complete breakdown of the regulations, happened on FFs watch.
And nobody was reprimanded, and it appears nobody will be.

Pride Fighter

cm2000 wrote: »

and it was the incompetent British, German, French, central European, eastern European, Japanese, American, Central American, South American???????

What is wrong with Germany?? They are experiencing a slight downturn atm. Mainly because there is less people buying things. Germany's economy is slowing at a rate of -2% this year as a result of lower consumer demand. As they did not have an incompetent shower in FF in office they are going to GROW economically next year. If Ireland was not reliant on incompetent FF policies like the housing boom and deregulation of the banks we would not be receding at a rate of knots, 7% this year, we would be receding because of the global downturn, but not at a rate of 7% (conervative estimate for this year) and have 10.4% unemployed, the figures at the moment.

Dannyboy83

Pride Fighter wrote: »

What is wrong with Germany?? They are experiencing a slight downturn atm. Mainly because there is less people buying things. Germany's economy is slowing at a rate of -2% this year as a result of lower consumer demand. As they did not have an incompetent shower in FF in office they are going to GROW economically next year. If Ireland was not reliant on incompetent FF policies like the housing boom and deregulation of the banks we would not be receding at a rate of knots, 7% this year, we would be receding because of the global downturn, but not at a rate of 7% (conervative estimate for this year) and have 10.4% unemployed, the figures at the moment.

http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13059781

And even worse in 2010, according to that at least.