Illegal to undertake?

Random

Right, from what I've heard from everyone, everywhere, everytime is that undertaking is illegal except for the 3 exceptions (slow moving traffic, you're turning left, car in front is turning right).

I'm trying to find the part of the law or road traffic act or whatever that specifically says it's illegal.

Can anyone help out?

Owen

I think someone posted the legislation in the Motors Forum, no doubt it'll be reposted here soon. It is in fact illegal!

daymobrew

Spend a bit of time searching http://www.irishstatutebook.ie

jhegarty

Its been done to death here : http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055089597

Wishbone Ash

ciaranfo wrote:

I'm trying to find the part of the law or road traffic act or whatever that specifically says it's illegal

Ciaran - the correct term is "overtaking on the left".

Road Traffic General Bye-Laws 1964


19.—(1) A driver shall not overtake (or attempt to overtake) if to do so would endanger, or cause inconvenience to, any other person.

(2) A driver shall not overtake (or attempt to overtake) unless he can clearly see a portion of the roadway which—

(a) is free from approaching traffic, pedestrians and any obstruction, and

(b) is sufficiently long and wide to permit the overtaking to be completed without danger or inconvenience to other traffic or pedestrians.

(3) A driver shall overtake on the right and shall not move in towards the left until it is safe to do so.

(4) Notwithstanding paragraph (3) of this bye-law, a driver may overtake on the left—

(a) where the driver of the vehicle about to be overtaken has signalled his intention to turn to the right and the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after having overtaken, to go straight ahead or to turn to the left,

(b) where the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after having overtaken, to turn left at a road junction and has signalled this intention,

(c) in slow-moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.

corktina

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Ciaran - (c) in slow-moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.[/COLOR]

so...where does it define slow-moving traffic? A stream of cars in lane two on a dual cariageway could be defined as slow moving when doing 60km/h couldnt it? in which case, what if there were 4 cars or 2 cars or just one?

afatbollix

a.motorway.i.think.is,the.only.one....where.its.against.the.law...

corktina

anto-t wrote:

a.motorway.i.think.is,the.only.one....where.its.against.the.law...

spa ceb arw or kedo kin you rsig nature:)

Wishbone Ash

anto-t wrote:

a.motorway.i.think.is,the.only.one....where.its.against.the.law...

It's illegal to overtake on the left in any public road (unless exempted by the situations given in my previous post). It's apity more motorcyclists don't seem to know this.

so...where does it define slow-moving traffic? A stream of cars in lane two on a dual cariageway could be defined as slow moving when doing 60km/h couldnt it? in which case, what if there were 4 cars or 2 cars or just one?

Generally it means when traffic is bunched up in queues, e.g. approaching a junction/roundabout/lights/toll plaza etc. If the queue on your right is stopped, it means that you may move forward if you way ahead is clear.

I take you point though.

corktina

i know what it MEANS but it doesnt say that does it?

Mind you our favourite Judge Patwell and I will NOT be argueing the point should i have the misfortune to get booked....I'd plead guilty.....

SickCert

So they CAN do 50-60mph down the N11 bus lane after 7pm?

NewDubliner

corktina wrote:

i know what it MEANS but it doesnt say that does it?

I'd suggest 'slow-moving' must mean, at least, that the cars in the outside lane are driving below the speed limit.

Jambo

Wishbone Ash wrote:

(c) in slow-moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.

Good to know this for sure as I feel I constanty have to drive in this manner due to the amount of eejits on the road here , for example yesterday on the Nass dual carrageway heading into Dublin I had to "undertake" as the middle and outer right lane had cars sitting in the lan doing ~40mph when there were was no cars in-front to slow them or warrant them blocking the rest of a very busy road .

I find this is always the situation here and on the M9/M7 routes . Although I would hate this it but maybe folk should be made sit and pass the Driver theory test each year or every second year inorder to apply for and hold a valid insurance policy !

John R

Jambo wrote:

Good to know this for sure as I feel I constanty have to drive in this manner due to the amount of eejits on the road here , for example yesterday on the Nass dual carrageway heading into Dublin I had to "undertake" as the middle and outer right lane had cars sitting in the lan doing ~40mph when there were was no cars in-front to slow them or warrant them blocking the rest of a very busy road .

Sorry to break it to you but you are not covered by the slow moving traffic exception in that case.

Although the law is somewhat vague on the definition of slow-moving traffic, that situation would almost certainly not qualify. You could easily find yourself with a penalty notice if spotted doing that by a guard.


I do agree though that it is bad situation and it is the tossers who sit in the overtaking lanes at slow speeds that need dealing with, that too is illegal but is just one of many motoring laws completely un-enforced.

corktina

John R wrote:

Sorry to break it to you but you are not covered by the slow moving traffic exception in that case.

Although the law is somewhat vague on the definition of slow-moving traffic, that situation would almost certainly not qualify. You could easily find yourself with a penalty notice if spotted doing that by a guard.


I do agree though that it is bad situation and it is the tossers who sit in the overtaking lanes at slow speeds that need dealing with, that too is illegal but is just one of many motoring laws completely un-enforced.

i think that MAY be only YOUR interpretation of what the law says.....it doesnt mean you are right....

Stark

It also tends to be the Gardaí's interpretation of the law.

corktina

Stark wrote:

It also tends to be the Gardaí's interpretation of the law.

on occasions no doubt it is.....when laws are so badly drafted that a good barrister could drive a coach and horses through it (on the nearside no doubt) Unfortunately most of us cant afford good barristers.

laoisfan

hi

was driving home one evening last summer on the M7 around Kildare. absolutely no traffic except for one car and you guessed it, this car was in the right-hand lane or the over-taking lane. now i was in the left-lane driving 120kph. i stayed in the left-lane and passed out the car that was in the right-lane.

so, was i wrong to go pass them? even though that car was clearly driving in the over-taking lane AND driving slower than the speed limit? should i have changed to the over-taking lane and waited behind the car until they pull in so that i could overtake legally?

i think my experience has been shared by many other drivers and is a common thing.

--laoisfan

enda1

laoisfan wrote:

hi

was driving home one evening last summer on the M7 around Kildare. absolutely no traffic except for one car and you guessed it, this car was in the right-hand lane or the over-taking lane. now i was in the left-lane driving 120kph. i stayed in the left-lane and passed out the car that was in the right-lane.

so, was i wrong to go pass them? even though that car was clearly driving in the over-taking lane AND driving slower than the speed limit? should i have changed to the over-taking lane and waited behind the car until they pull in so that i could overtake legally?

i think my experience has been shared by many other drivers and is a common thing.

--laoisfan

I don't think its overtaking unless you make a lane change to do do. I think you may also have to make a lane change back to complete the overtake for it to be considered a manouvre. So that situation is grand. You merely passed him by. Or so I think anyway.

laoisfan

enda1 wrote:

I don't think its overtaking unless you make a lane change to do do. I think you may also have to make a lane change back to complete the overtake for it to be considered a manouvre. So that situation is grand. You merely passed him by. Or so I think anyway.

true - i did not have to change lanes so i would assume that i was correct in what i did. but isn't it annoying to find people hogging the right-lane? ah well. i suppose life is not perfect anyway.

C.O.Y.B.I.B

I was pulled a couple of years ago for undertaking on the M4 . 3 cars in the right were travelling at 50mph although it was in bad weather . I flashed them and when there was no movement to the left undertook them and continued on at about 70mph . 10 secs later blue flashing light in the rearview mirror and pulled over and given on the spot fine for doing 90mph and also details were taken and told I would be appearing in court for dangerous driving for the undertaking . For whatever reason , the summons never arrived . I had a solicitor who said I could probably get away with the lesser charge of Driving with undue care .... , but luckily it never came to that .

Cathmandooo

I'm a new driver on the roads, driving test on june 24th ahhhh!! Can I just clarify, if I'm on a dual carriageway in the slow lane and someone is in the fast lane but travelling slowly (as a lot of eejits seem to do) can I not legally go by them if theyre not stuck behind traffic??? or is just that i cant hop from the fast lane behind them, pass them, and hop back into the fast lane? (I can understand that being illegal though)

meanmachine3

laoisfan wrote:

hi

was driving home one evening last summer on the M7 around Kildare. absolutely no traffic except for one car and you guessed it, this car was in the right-hand lane or the over-taking lane. now i was in the left-lane driving 120kph. i stayed in the left-lane and passed out the car that was in the right-lane.

so, was i wrong to go pass them? even though that car was clearly driving in the over-taking lane AND driving slower than the speed limit? should i have changed to the over-taking lane and waited behind the car until they pull in so that i could overtake legally?

i think my experience has been shared by many other drivers and is a common thing.

--laoisfan

the speed limits that are out there are for maximum speed only and also you have to take into account of weather factors and road conditions. the other driver may well have been keeping below the max speed limit but may have taken into account any conditions that i have mentioned.also alot of drivers seem to think that these are either a minimum limit or you have to stick to these limits no matter what.
however with regards this 50kph limit. i think it is way wrong. i've tried doing this in the phoenix park at all hours at night and in the morning and have found that i'm the slowest car at that time or in some cases been nearly run of the road because the driver behind me wants his car to get very intimate with mine and have lots of little spare parts.

Random

"the driver behind me wants his car to get very intimate with mine and have lots of little spare parts."

Lads, you're killing me today ...

And I agree with you about the Park .. even at 2am it happens sometimes!

Drax

Wishbone Ash wrote:

It's a pity more motorcyclists don't seem to know this.

Yea and its a pity more car drivers dont know when to move back into the left hand lane to let us past when the opportunity arises. The amount of times I have come up behind someone who stay in the right hand lane out of either pure stubborness or not paying attention is staggering. People seem to think that if the gap between 2 vehicles in theleft lane is no less than half a mile they dont have to move in :mad: I will give them about 10 seconds followed by a flash of my lights before overtaking them on the left. Do you drive a bike? If you did, maybe you'd understand.

mackerski

enda1 wrote:

I don't think its overtaking unless you make a lane change to do do. I think you may also have to make a lane change back to complete the overtake for it to be considered a manouvre. So that situation is grand. You merely passed him by. Or so I think anyway.

Do you have a driving licence? If so, how did you get it? Same question to laoisfan. Cathooo, about time you cracked your copy of the Rules of the Road out of the shrinkwrap. In it you'll (all) find not only the answer to the question posed but also the useful fact that there are no slow and fast lanes.

Cathmandooo

mackerski wrote:

Do you have a driving licence? If so, how did you get it? Same question to laoisfan. Cathooo, about time you cracked your copy of the Rules of the Road out of the shrinkwrap. In it you'll (all) find not only the answer to the question posed but also the useful fact that there are no slow and fast lanes.

What do you mean about time, I'm only starting, give a girl a chance

Stark

You're supposed to have read the RotR before you stepped into the driver's seat of a car for the first time.

Wishbone Ash

Cathooo wrote:

What do you mean about time, I'm only starting, give a girl a chance

Cathooo - there are no such thing as 'fast' and 'slow' lanes. If you are due to sit a driving test next month, you should know this. On a dual carriageway/motorway the lane on the right is an 'overtaking' lane.

Drax wrote:

Yea and its a pity more car drivers dont know when to move back into the left hand lane to let us past when the opportunity arises. The amount of times I have come up behind someone who stay in the right hand lane out of either pure stubborness or not paying attention is staggering. People seem to think that if the gap between 2 vehicles in theleft lane is no less than half a mile they dont have to move in I will give them about 10 seconds followed by a flash of my lights before overtaking them on the left.

Just to clarify, I was referring to motorcyclists who overtake on the left on ordinary single lane roads.

Drax wrote:

Do you drive a bike? If you did, maybe you'd understand.

Yes, and I also have a full bike license unlike many motorcyclists that I know.

MrPudding

laoisfan wrote:

so, was i wrong to go pass them? even though that car was clearly driving in the over-taking lane AND driving slower than the speed limit?

Yes, you were wrong. Forget about whether you change lanes or not. What is illegal is passing on the left, this is what you did.

laoisfan wrote:

should i have changed to the over-taking lane and waited behind the car until they pull in so that i could overtake legally?

Yes. Sucks doesn't it.

MrP

meanmachine3

most people dont know the whole of the rules of the road. i wonder how many drivers know that it's also illegal to flash their headlights to the car infront so they can over take. one definate no no is under taking on the hard shoulder. but then again who is going to enforce the rules of the road.
my biggest gripe is with idiots/ morans that use left and right hand turns only for going straight , like the one in westmoreland street for turning left onto aston quay.

cyclopath2001

meanmachine3 wrote:

most people dont know the whole of the rules of the road.

It's also illegal to overtake if to do so would 'cause inconvenience'. I see many manouvres of this type every day.

Drax

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Just to clarify, I was referring to motorcyclists who overtake on the left on ordinary single lane roads.

Fair enough dude... but on single lane roads?? How?! You mean on hard shoulders?

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Yes, and I also have a full bike license

Good man.

fletch

Cathooo wrote:

I'm a new driver on the roads, driving test on june 24th ahhhh!! Can I just clarify, if I'm on a dual carriageway in the slow lane and someone is in the fast lane but travelling slowly (as a lot of eejits seem to do) can I not legally go by them if theyre not stuck behind traffic??? or is just that i cant hop from the fast lane behind them, pass them, and hop back into the fast lane? (I can understand that being illegal though)

OMG :eek: When I read posts like this its scares me the lack of driver knowledge/training on the roads! :eek:

Wishbone Ash

Drax wrote:

Fair enough dude... but on single lane roads?? How?! You mean on hard shoulders?

Yup, I see it all the time.

Capt'n Midnight

Stark wrote:

You're supposed to have read the RotR before you stepped into the driver's seat of a car for the first time.

not just supposed,
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/travel-and-recreation/motoring-1/driver-licensing/provisional_driving_licence/?searchterm=provisional
form D201 http://www.roscommoncoco.ie/services/motortax/motortaxforms/prodrivinglicenceapp.pdf
At the very bottom you sign that you have a satisfactory knowledge of the rules of the road, which means you have accepted the warning about Section 115 of the road traffic act 1961 and "to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months or to both such fine and such imprisonment"
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/index.html

enda1

mackerski wrote:

Do you have a driving licence? If so, how did you get it? Same question to laoisfan. Cathooo, about time you cracked your copy of the Rules of the Road out of the shrinkwrap. In it you'll (all) find not only the answer to the question posed but also the useful fact that there are no slow and fast lanes.

Yes I have a driving license. I never called anything a slow or fast lane. So instead of criticizing, how about answering the question yourself. I know the answer is in the book as does everyone.

How about posting your interpretation of it with respect to the situation asked about.

Wishbone Ash

enda1 wrote:

I never called anything a slow or fast lane

mackerski was directing that comment at Cathooo, not you.;)

mackerski wrote:

Do you have a driving licence? If so, how did you get it? Same question to laoisfan. Cathooo, about time you cracked your copy of the Rules of the Road out of the shrinkwrap. In it you'll (all) find not only the answer to the question posed but also the useful fact that there are no slow and fast lanes.

Tarabuses

Drax wrote:

Yea and its a pity more car drivers dont know when to move back into the left hand lane to let us past when the opportunity arises. The amount of times I have come up behind someone who stay in the right hand lane out of either pure stubborness or not paying attention is staggering. People seem to think that if the gap between 2 vehicles in theleft lane is no less than half a mile they dont have to move in :mad: I will give them about 10 seconds followed by a flash of my lights before overtaking them on the left. Do you drive a bike? If you did, maybe you'd understand.

Why do you assume that this type of situation only inconveniences bikers? Many's the time I have found myself in the same position while driving a car. Yet you refer to "let us pass" as if you have more rights than anyone else on the road.

Of course failing to move back into the left lane after overtaking is contrary to the rules of the road and those who drive in that way are incompetent but two wrongs don't make a right.