why do people tail gate learners?!

agent_smith

Was out with my girlfriend two nights ago. She is fully licenced for past 3 or 4 years. Her sister happens to be learning in her car and my gf had forgotten to take the L plates down when she got into it. We noticed driving around that, taxi's particularly, and a large majority of drivers tend to treat learners like absolute dirt on the road. For example... and this is the most dangerous one I can think of... the number of cars that tail gated us all the way from fairview through to tallaght was unbelievable. A number of times we had taxi's sitting on our arse. Eventually we twigged that the L plates must still be up. Pulled over, took them down. The difference was almost immediate. People began to give us more space.
Also noticed that people were more inclined to let you out when you didn't have the L plates up.
Why do you reckon people do this? Do people forget they were learners themselves? Surely you should give a learner even more space than a regular driver......

dr.bollocko

Because 90% of all Irish drivers are bastard coated bastards with bastard filling.

Mitch Connor

i could never get over the amopunt of people that would pull up right behind you on a hill. Also, the amount that would over take you just for the sake of it. You could be doing 80 in an 80 zone, they'd hammer up the right side of the road past you, the pull in front and do 75. WWWHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYY?

Although, the worst tailgating i have suffered was this morning ont he M50*, couldn't even see the bonet of the volvo. I was being an ******** driver though. I was in the overtaking lane(over taking someone at the time) when he sped up to the back of my car, but then didn't pull over when i got the chance. I was just so angry at the guy behind i felt no compulsion to make his life any quicker. I generally always pull back to the left to let people pass, but when they are ignorant ***** like that i get all pigheaded.

EDIT: *I'm not a learner now

DarkJager

I'm a learner driver as well and find this is a common thing (especially with bastards driving modified cars or BMWS). Best thing to do is jam on the brakes a few times, usually scares the **** off. And there's always the case that if they do crash into you, they're to blame for it!

edmund_f

DarkJager wrote:

I'm a learner driver as well and find this is a common thing (especially with bastards driving modified cars or BMWS). Best thing to do is jam on the brakes a few times, usually scares the **** off. And there's always the case that if they do crash into you, they're to blame for it!

such a nice answer.. and in the next breath will be complaing about high insurance

stovelid

dr.bollocko wrote:

Because 90% of all Irish drivers are bastard coated bastards with bastard filling.

agent_smith wrote:

Surely you should give a learner even more space than a regular driver......

Of course you should. A lot of drivers definitely treat learners like sh@t. I think in their minds, they see an L plate and immediately start imagining annoyances like low speed etc without even looking at how the learner is actually driving.

Keith C

DarkJager wrote:

I'm a learner driver as well and find this is a common thing (especially with bastards driving modified cars or BMWS). Best thing to do is jam on the brakes a few times, usually scares the **** off. And there's always the case that if they do crash into you, they're to blame for it!

Wouldnt jam on the brakes, gentle tap to make the brake lights "light" up so be enough warning.

Clank

DarkJager wrote:

I'm a learner driver as well and find this is a common thing (especially with bastards driving modified cars or BMWS). Best thing to do is jam on the brakes a few times, usually scares the **** off. And there's always the case that if they do crash into you, they're to blame for it!

That type of behaviour doesn't help anyone.

Being a learner myself I can see what your saying, especially on hills, some people will roll up really close behind not considering that I could be only driving 2 weeks.
When I get my license tailgating learners is the last thing ill do.

Pherekydes

stovelid wrote:

I think in their minds, they see an L plate and immediately start imagining annoyances like low speed etc without even looking at how the learner is actually driving.

Or even how they're driving!

fits

I know its dangerous, but I frightened the life out of a stupid eejit in a range rover yesterday. She was on my ass on the M11 at 60 mph (it was rush hour). I just touched the brakes so the light came on. I was watching her in the mirror and she really got a fright. I gestured at her to back off and she 'gestured' back.... but she did back off after that. Very satisfying
Don't think I'll be doing that again though, she overreacted, which could have been dangerous.

pclancy

dr.bollocko wrote:

Because 90% of all Irish drivers are bastard coated bastards with bastard filling.

Yup. Sums it all up really.

I.S.T.

To the OP: cos a lot of Irish drivers are inconsiderate arseholes.

To go slightly off topic does anyone think learner drivers (i.e. learning to drive in a driving school car) should not be allowed to drive on the roads at peak times?

I.S.T.

fits wrote:

I know its dangerous, but I frightened the life out of a stupid eejit in a range rover yesterday. She was on my ass on the M11 at 60 mph (it was rush hour). I just touched the brakes so the light came on. I was watching her in the mirror and she really got a fright. I gestured at her to back off and she 'gestured' back.... but she did back off after that. Very satisfying
Don't think I'll be doing that again though, she overreacted, which could have been dangerous.

On the old Fiat Punto (pre-2000) it was possible to put the reverse lights on without actually engaging the reverse gear. I know someone who used this trick when being tailgated on motorways!

dr.bollocko

We couldnt ban learner drivers from driving at peak times, no matter how slow or annoying that they seem, because driving at peak times is a pressure situation and one in which Irish drivers badly need more experience. In one way, I see your point, in peak times, getting stuck behing a poor learner in a driving school car can test your patience, but in the long term, it is better to get the experience of driving at peak times, and getting used to the pressures of that situation.

fits

IrishSpeedTraps wrote:

On the old Fiat Punto (pre-2000) it was possible to put the reverse lights on without actually engaging the reverse gear. I know someone who used this trick when being tailgated on motorways!

But it shouldnt be necessary should it?? I find people in range rovers very prone to tailgating for some reason... Maybe becuase they're in such a large vehicle or something. This lady wasnt tailgating me on purpose... (like an aggressive driver would) she just didnt realise what she was doing..
I really don't appreciate a 2.5 ton lump of metal travelling 3 metres behind me at sixty miles per hour. :mad: It would mangle my little 323 (and me).

NeMiSiS

10 hours off the road training would be nice, before anyone is let on the road.

There is an obvious difference while driving looking at a learner who has had some form opf tuition, to the learned who has just bought their Micra, and is pretty much driving round with blinkers on, smoking, talking to their friend on the phone, and talking to their other friend sat next to them.

I will give most learner drivers space, if they are travelling at a relativly sensible speed. I will go round them if they are driving eratically, and give the impression that they will quite happily use their proviosnal licence to drive for the next 10 years.

What is irritating me as of late, and I suppose with the sunny weather is, learner drivers out for a drive with all their mates in the car. You can tell they are not watching the road as well as they should be, and are hammering on with some bull**** conversation with their mates in the back -and then suddenly- that bend they did not quite expect, and they slam on.

In general though, I see better discipline on roundabouts, and overtaking with learners, but their road posistioning seems very poor. Road posistioning in general is pretty terrible in Ireland, for exmaple a driver turning right.. doesn't move right.. as in line himself up with the white line.. and then the thick behind him following too closely cannot pass him on the left.. because of both their posistions..

TK..

Terrontress

Do you think if the loophole was closed and Learner drivers were only allowed to drive when they are under the supervision of a driver with several years practise then people would be more tolerant of learners?

For the most part, those with L plates up are not under instruction. Just people who are out without a full license.

Henry Ford III

Some Irish drivers tailgate everyone - not just learners.

aphex™

I'm a learner and the other day I stopped because there was only room for 1 car on the road and one car was already coming through, of course the BMW driver decided to beep his horn just as he arrived on the scene (out of nowhere as usual with BMW drivers). Then he proceeded to tailgate me on a long road while I was driving at the speed limit. He then waited till we got to a corner before overtaking me. What a fool.

Stark

IrishSpeedTraps wrote:

To go slightly off topic does anyone think learner drivers (i.e. learning to drive in a driving school car) should not be allowed to drive on the roads at peak times?

Nope. Tbh, I hardly ever encounter learners in learning school cars, so they're hardly a nuisance. And like dr. bollocko said, better for them to get that experience while they're under instruction.

Mitch Connor

Stark wrote:

Nope. Tbh, I hardly ever encounter learners in learning school cars, so they're hardly a nuisance. And like dr. bollocko said, better for them to get that experience while they're under instruction.

plus in peak time traffic you are unlikely to be travelling at a good pace regardless of who is in front of you.

Jumpy

I dont think they understand the concept of "The closer you get, the slower I go"

I.S.T.

Tauren wrote:

plus in peak time traffic you are unlikely to be travelling at a good pace regardless of who is in front of you.

I was more thinking of the situation...

learner driver at red traffic lights with big queue behind....lights turn green....learner releases handbrake....puts car in gear....slowly takes off.....car stalls and cuts out....lights turn red again, nobody gets thorugh....repeat

Stark

It doesn't happen that often really. Not in my experience anyway, and I've probably seen drivers without L-plates stall/fall asleep at traffic lights far more often.

Keeping a calm enough head to do a steady take off when under pressure is something everyone has to learn at some point or other. You can make someone an expert at taking off from standstill in a quiet industrial estate, but the only way to teach someone how to do it in heavy traffic with loads of stressed out/aggressive rush hour drivers around you is to make them do it. At least in a school car, the instructor has his own clutch if things get too much.

oilsheik

One poster singled out BMW as the biggest offenders but personally I find it the TDI VAG brigade that's the worst...they coast right up to edge of the boot lid and cover you in a fog of black smoke...impressing everybody with all their low down torque.

PoleStar

Sadly this is a pointless discussion as tailgaters will always do it.

I guess its impossible to change someone's mentality when they think like : "Look at me, Im able to press this pedal really hard to the floor of my car and drive fast, now everyone will definitely know Im hung like a horse".

You cant argue with these guys

Note please substitute a suitable alternative instead of "hung like a horse" for the ladies, I would hate to be taken as sexist! And I certainly have been tailgated dangerously by a few females. Worryinly though I would agree with previous poster who noted that the females dont even know they are doing it!

Jack Bauer999

PoleStar wrote:

Sadly this is a pointless discussion as tailgaters will always do it.

I guess its impossible to change someone's mentality when they think like : "Look at me, Im able to press this pedal really hard to the floor of my car and drive fast, now everyone will definitely know Im hung like a horse".

You cant argue with these guys

Note please substitute a suitable alternative instead of "hung like a horse" for the ladies, I would hate to be taken as sexist! And I certainly have been tailgated dangerously by a few females. Worryinly though I would agree with previous poster who noted that the females dont even know they are doing it!

how do you translate driving fast = 'people will know Im hung like a horse'?

i would have thought the logical reason people drive fast is for the adrenalin rush.

stovelid

IrishSpeedTraps wrote:

I was more thinking of the situation...

learner driver at red traffic lights with big queue behind....lights turn green....learner releases handbrake....puts car in gear....slowly takes off.....car stalls and cuts out....lights turn red again, nobody gets thorugh....repeat

I think this is what we were originally discussing.

Experienced drivers assigning a lot of negative assumptions @ learners because they spot an L.

I drive most days and I don't see learners acting any more idiotically than drivers without L's TBH.

As for touching the brakes to get rid of tailgaters; I hate tailgaters but it's dangerous to feign braking. I usually just flick the hazards at them to warn them.

If it doesn't work (like 99% of the time ) , just get out of the way and give them the finger. Not worth causing a accident. You can console yourself with the fact that it's them that will end up in the central reservation eventually.

Terrontress

If you have your lights on, stick on the rear fog light. That usually gets them to hang back a bit as they think it is the brake light.

PoleStar

Jack Bauer999 wrote:

how do you translate driving fast = 'people will know Im hung like a horse'?

i would have thought the logical reason people drive fast is for the adrenalin rush.

Apologies, I am sorry for not truly understanding why these idiots do it. I have tried before but cant seem to get inside their heads:cool:

event

IrishSpeedTraps wrote:

I was more thinking of the situation...

learner driver at red traffic lights with big queue behind....lights turn green....learner releases handbrake....puts car in gear....slowly takes off.....car stalls and cuts out....lights turn red again, nobody gets thorugh....repeat

eh no?

how many times has this happened to you?

this has happened a few times to me, and more times that otherwise, they hadnt got L plates up

mathie

Going northbound on the M1 last night.
Learner driver sitting in the overtaking lane driving at exact same speed as car in other lane.
They sit like this - doing roughly 90kmph in a 120kpmh zone - for 3 plus minutes.
I flash them.
Nothing.
Hence their bad name.
M

event

mathie wrote:

Going northbound on the M1 last night.
Learner driver sitting in the overtaking lane driving at exact same speed as car in other lane.
They sit like this - doing roughly 90kmph in a 120kpmh zone - for 3 plus minutes.
I flash them.
Nothing.
Hence their bad name.
M

amazing

i have seen this in non learner drivers too

but nothing like tarring everyone with the same brush, eh?

TwoShedsJackson

mathie wrote:

Going northbound on the M1 last night.
Learner driver sitting in the overtaking lane driving at exact same speed as car in other lane.
They sit like this - doing roughly 90kmph in a 120kpmh zone - for 3 plus minutes.
I flash them.
Nothing.
Hence their bad name.
M

And what would you have thought if he didnt have L plates up? That all licenced drivers are ****e?

mathie

event wrote:

amazing

i have seen this in non learner drivers too

but nothing like tarring everyone with the same brush, eh?

I have the tar ready. You hold them down.
M

mathie

TwoShedsJackson wrote:

And what would you have thought if he didnt have L plates up? That all licenced drivers are ****e?

Not all all.

Just that all learners drivers don't put up L plates and hog the overtaking lane.
M

It BeeMee

fits wrote:

This lady wasnt tailgating me on purpose... (like an aggressive driver would) she just didnt realise what she was doing..

PoleStar wrote:

Worryinly though I would agree with previous poster who noted that the females dont even know they are doing it!

Women can't judge distances, cos they're always told that |<-- this -->| is 6 inches.....

On topic:
TBH common sense would indicate that tailgating is the very worst thing to do to a learner driver. By their nature, you have to assume that their reactions may be more unpredictable than an "experienced" driver.
Trying to intimidate someone into doing something rash and/or silly and/or in a panic can only end in tears......

DublinWriter

Red-warning lights go off and sirens sound in my head anytime I see a car with an 'L' plate in front of me approach a roundabout.

I will always put acres of space between me and it.

Most normal drivers havn't a clue about how to use a roundabout, never mind learners.

I think we should follow the example of other European countries such as France were you're not allowed out with 'L' plates unless under instruction.

Padraig Mor

DublinWriter wrote:

Red-warning lights go off and sirens sound in my head anytime I see a car with an 'L' plate in front of me approach a roundabout.

I will always put acres of space between me and it.

Most normal drivers havn't a clue about how to use a roundabout, never mind learners.

Gotta say that on the rare occasion I see someone use a roundabout correctly, it's quite likely to be a learner!

Jumpy

Padraig Mor wrote:

Gotta say that on the rare occasion I see someone use a roundabout correctly, it's quite likely to be a learner!

Or a foreigner.

Noone is tought how to use a roundabout in this country, you cant really expect them to know. Commonsense doesnt always prevail with roundabouts.

colm_mcm

DublinWriter wrote:

I think we should follow the example of other European countries such as France were you're not allowed out with 'L' plates unless under instruction.

That's supposed to be the case here. (unless you are so bad at driving that you're on a 2nd provisional lisence, therefore ok on your own)

Caliden

Just scare the **** out of tail gaters with a little tap on your brakes. Works miracles and helps vent a little frustration

colm_mcm

sound advice there.

stovelid

Caliden wrote:

Just scare the **** out of tail gaters with a little tap on your brakes. Works miracles and helps vent a little frustration

As said earlier in the thread; if some clown is up your arse at high speed, where is the sense in making them think you are going to suddenly brake?

The handful of people who are not actually wide to the trick might overreact and cause an accident.

Stark

Padraig Mor wrote:

Gotta say that on the rare occasion I see someone use a roundabout correctly, it's quite likely to be a learner!

Same experience here.

Marcus.Aurelius

Would like to see greater restrictions on L platers like the aussies. Can't drive over 80 kph on any road, banned off motorways, can't drive after 10 PM. Brilliant ideas, never had a problem with L drivers in Aus, very polite and able, due to the amount of supervision.

Wouldn't be fair to tar all Learners with same brush, but they are going to be more dangerous (in general) than their more experienced counterparts, no offence intended. Full licensers are often full of bad habits, some of them dangerous, but they react somewhat more uniformly and more rapidly, easier to predict.

Pherekydes

Jumpy wrote:

Noone is tought how to use a roundabout in this country, you cant really expect them to know.

Why not? Nothing to stop anyone picking up the ROTR and acquainting themselves with the rules of the road. Now there's a thought.

I saw a learner under instruction (school car) negotiating a roundabout with incorrect indication the other day. So some people are being taught wrongly.

Caliden

maoleary wrote:

Would like to see greater restrictions on L platers like the aussies. Can't drive over 80 kph on any road, banned off motorways, can't drive after 10 PM. Brilliant ideas, never had a problem with L drivers in Aus, very polite and able, due to the amount of supervision.

Wouldn't be fair to tar all Learners with same brush, but they are going to be more dangerous (in general) than their more experienced counterparts, no offence intended. Full licensers are often full of bad habits, some of them dangerous, but they react somewhat more uniformly and more rapidly, easier to predict.

So what can I do if the waiting time for a full license test is 43 weeks? That only works when you have low waiting times so it's impossible here.

boomer_ie

I had the annoying moment of a tailgater right up at my boot (couldnt see his lights at all) I gave him LOTS of hints such as gentle taps of breaks, gestures etc which only resulted in gestures of his own (and not nice ones). Finally I lit off my blue lights (I was driving an Ambulance Service vehicle at the time) but to no avail. He eventually pulled off at the Naas road exit on the M50.

It turned out it was someone I knew that woulnt be the best of friends to put it mildly and his attitude (to a third party) was that I should be putting more concentration on whats in front of me instead of whats behind me. More worringly he said that he "was driving my usual distance behind".

He claimed that he found it funny that I set off the blue lights to get someone in front to move and laughed when they didnt, he couldnt understand that I was lighting them off to try to get him to back off!

He is a member of boards and may comment on this, then again he may not.

franksm

Sounds like an ar$ehole !

A couple of days ago, car in front of me was tailgating the car in front of him in stop-go 1st/2nd gear traffic - plus he kept reaching over, playing with the radio or phone or something. I kept well back, I knew what was going to happen. A minute later *thwack* - the inevitable happened - awful noise when one car hits another, no matter what the speed.

DarkJager

DublinWriter wrote:

I think we should follow the example of other European countries such as France were you're not allowed out with 'L' plates unless under instruction.

Put yourself in the shoes of a learner driver for a second. Would you like being only able to drive your car if you're under instruction? Waiting months upon months for a full driving test, while having to stare at something you've paid a large amount of money for just sitting there unused because nobody is available to get in the car with you? That arguement doesn't fly I'm afraid. People have jobs/places they need to get to and that can't be done if supervision is required at all times.

I'm 2 weeks away from my full licence test (after a wait of nearly 10 months), and having been through 2 years of driving as a learner, I have nothing but sympathy for them. They are subjected to this mentality that they shouldn't be on the road (people very quickly forget they were in this position as well once before), and subjected to fully licenced drivers endangering them with bad driving, because that seems to be okay when you've got a full licence (I wonder if thats a licence to be an ignorant prick as well?).