PRTB Adjudication Hearing - Finally

Lex Luthor

almost 6 months after submitting a claim to the PRTB to reclaim costs for damages by a tenant, I have finally been given a date at the end of June for the adjudication hearing.

Its a bit of hassle as I have to travel to the County Council office of the town where the house is. Is this normal? I would have thought it would have been in the PRTB office in Dublin. It means having to take a day off work, which will cost me more than what I am trying to recover for damages.

Wife says she'll go as and I quote "there is no way in hell that she is going to get away with this"

gibo_ie

to be honest it sounds fair that it is in the local council office, otherwise it would be unfair to ask the tenant (possibly in a house in cork) to travel to Dublin and vice versa.
Let us know how it turns out as i am interested in what happens here. thanks

Zambia

Forgive my Ignorance but what where the damages

Lex Luthor

I would have thought they would have picked an office mid way between the landlord & tenant, thats all. One of us has to drive for nearly 2hrs while the tenant who is the cause of all this only walks around the corner

Lex Luthor

Zambia232 wrote:

Forgive my Ignorance but what where the damages

too many to go into, but the main ones were house needed cleaning from top to bottom, all the carpets were soiled and needed a professional cleaning and every room had multiple holes in the walls and they had to be filled and the whole house painted. Some rooms the paint was actually peeled off thewalls and there were some cracks in the ceilings downstair due to kids bouncing on a trampolene in the bedroom.
This was in a new house only 1yr old.

antoinolachtnai

She likely won't show up is the reality, and you will have to be aggressive about getting them to go ahead and make a ruling in the absence of any defence.

How can you enforce any damages that are awarded?

Look forward to hearing how it works out.

godtabh

Lex Luthor wrote:

there were some cracks in the ceilings downstair due to kids bouncing on a trampolene in the bedroom

Holly sh1t but what kind of bell end was she?

Lex Luthor

antoinolachtnai wrote:

She likely won't show up is the reality, and you will have to be aggressive about getting them to go ahead and make a ruling in the absence of any defence.

How can you enforce any damages that are awarded?

Look forward to hearing how it works out.

I have to read the letter again but I think it mentioned something that a failure not to show up would be considered very serious.

I don't know about how I can enforce any awards...I'm hoping they will give some guidance there. Maybe through the small claims court

Lex Luthor

kearnsr wrote:

Holly sh1t but what kind of bell end was she?

a serious one.....
me missus nearly dragged her round the place she was that pi$$ed off

I could see the steam coming out of her ears

talkingclock

Lex Luthor wrote:

too many to go into, but the main ones were house needed cleaning from top to bottom,

Now from my experiences with landlords some comments from me as a tenant

Lex Luthor wrote:

all the carpets were soiled and needed a professional cleaning

i heard that so many times. i bet just a few drops of cola...

Lex Luthor wrote:

and every room had multiple holes in the walls and they had to be filled and the whole house painted.

There was recently a discussion here about landlords going berserk about bluetack on the wall...

Lex Luthor wrote:

Some rooms the paint was actually peeled off thewalls

Dry, old paint falling off by itself?

Lex Luthor wrote:

and there were some cracks in the ceilings downstair due to kids bouncing on a trampolene in the bedroom.

Show me an irish house WITHOUT cracks in the wall!

Lex Luthor wrote:

This was in a new house only 1yr old.

Time for renovation, huh? Let the tenant pay...

Yes, I had terrible experiences with landlords. So that's why I'm a bit bitter!

Ste.phen

Aye, all of those things are vague enough that they could be minor (hole in wall = tacks), or major (hole in wall = thick nails going the whole way through).
Hard to say without evidence or before/after pics.

uberwolf

Igy wrote:

Aye, all of those things are vague enough that they could be minor (hole in wall = tacks), or major (hole in wall = thick nails going the whole way through).
Hard to say without evidence or before/after pics.

well what do you know, the PRTB will do that for you.

connundrum

From personal experience, I'd nearly pay the costs myself rather than go through the PTRB.

The entire system needs to be overhauled, and you should have theoption of pursuing them in a civil court - actually why didn't you look to go down the civil court avenue? Was there a reason?

Lex Luthor

talkingclock wrote:

i heard that so many times. i bet just a few drops of cola...

hardly

talkingclock wrote:

There was recently a discussion here about landlords going berserk about bluetack on the wall...

did I mention blutack....?
blutack doesn't leave holes....6" nails do

talkingclock wrote:

Dry, old paint falling off by itself?

house was 1yr old....

talkingclock wrote:

Show me an irish house WITHOUT cracks in the wall!

I never mentioned walls with cracks....it was the ceiling caused by a trampoline

talkingclock wrote:

Time for renovation, huh? Let the tenant pay...

1yr old house again....didn't need renovating.

Lex Luthor

Igy wrote:

Aye, all of those things are vague enough that they could be minor (hole in wall = tacks), or major (hole in wall = thick nails going the whole way through).
Hard to say without evidence or before/after pics.

I've got plenty pics....don't worry

Lex Luthor

connundrum wrote:

From personal experience, I'd nearly pay the costs myself rather than go through the PTRB.

The entire system needs to be overhauled, and you should have theoption of pursuing them in a civil court - actually why didn't you look to go down the civil court avenue? Was there a reason?

I already have paid the costs myself....

I probably would have let the other stuff go but when I saw the carpets and the attitude I got saying it was regular wear & tear, then it was a case of not taking any more $hit

Reason I went down the PRTB route was, I paid my fee to them, so if this is one of the service they offer, then I'm entitled to use it

It would have been cheaper going down the small claims court, but on advice from the PRTB, they advised me to go through them first

Lex Luthor

antoinolachtnai wrote:

She likely won't show up is the reality, and you will have to be aggressive about getting them to go ahead and make a ruling in the absence of any defence.

How can you enforce any damages that are awarded?

Look forward to hearing how it works out.

Basically says, that a non-attendance of a party of rep will not be accepted as reason for adjournment unless except for very grave reasons and adjournments only granted in exceptional circumstances.
All adjournments must be in writing and in reasonable notice

RuggieBear

what were the costs?

Lex Luthor

RuggieBear wrote:

what were the costs?

about 3 weeks rent which would have been covered by teh deposit only they refused to pay the last months rent saying the deposit would cover it.

They knew then that the place was not going to be returned in a satisfactory condition and hence the refusal to pay the last months rent

faceman

Lex Luthor wrote:

They knew then that the place was not going to be returned in a satisfactory condition and hence the refusal to pay the last months rent

not necessarily true, alot of tenants seem to do that nowadays for fear they wont get their deposit back from crooked landlords etc.

being a landlord myself i can sympathise. without seeing the damage its hard to say obviously but the soiled carpets can be hard to uphold. Most landlords see their carpet when its brand new and when the tenant moves out and there is always a difference.

WTF was she doing puttin holes in the walls? what were the hole diameters? which rooms are holes in?

cracks in the ceiling is common in new houses. What kind of cracks are they? Paint, plaster or structural?

anyway hope it works out, let us all know how it goes.

antoinolachtnai

So they only did that much damage? Did the damage not cost more than that to repair?

Lex Luthor

antoinolachtnai wrote:

So they only did that much damage? Did the damage not cost more than that to repair?

I got a friend who is a painter to help me get the walls back to a liveable condition and I have a receipt for the carpet cleaners.

I think I'm being fair

Lex Luthor

faceman wrote:

not necessarily true, alot of tenants seem to do that nowadays for fear they wont get their deposit back from crooked landlords etc.

being a landlord myself i can sympathise. without seeing the damage its hard to say obviously but the soiled carpets can be hard to uphold. Most landlords see their carpet when its brand new and when the tenant moves out and there is always a difference.

WTF was she doing puttin holes in the walls? what were the hole diameters? which rooms are holes in?

cracks in the ceiling is common in new houses. What kind of cracks are they? Paint, plaster or structural?

anyway hope it works out, let us all know how it goes.

She was hanging small pictures with big 6" nails....
and the hall had more pictures on it than the tate gallery...it was like swiss cheese.
I specifically stated in the agreement that no pictures other than what I had put up were to be hung up on the walls.

Cracks caused by a trampoline are inexcusable....

stovelid

talkingclock wrote:

Now from my experiences with landlords some comments from me as a tenant



i heard that so many times. i bet just a few drops of cola...



There was recently a discussion here about landlords going berserk about bluetack on the wall...



Dry, old paint falling off by itself?



Show me an irish house WITHOUT cracks in the wall!



Time for renovation, huh? Let the tenant pay...

Yes, I had terrible experiences with landlords. So that's why I'm a bit bitter!

Mate, no offence, but have you ever rented out a house.

My wife rented out her (2yr old) house to a family and I was astounded at the state that they left it in after only 1 year. Nowhere near the level of the OP but certainly way beyond the bounds of a little wear and tear.

Fact is that a lot of people don't give a sh*t if it isn't their house.

RuggieBear

i'd love to see the pictures of the damage.

I've been a landlord and now I'm a tenant...I've seen landlords overreact to simple wear and tear and i've seen the damage tenants can do to a flat within 2 months.

talkingclock

stovelid wrote:

Mate, no offence, but have you ever rented out a house.

My wife rented out her (2yr old) house to a family and I was astounded at the state that they left it in after only 1 year. Nowhere near the level of the OP but certainly way beyond the bounds of a little wear and tear.

Fact is that a lot of people don't give a sh*t if it isn't their house.

Mate, I'm renting a house for myself. Before that i was sharing houses with others, mate.

If you don't rent your house and then complain about tear and wear then keep your houses for yourself. They will stay decades new, shiny and (most important) unused!

Lex Luthor

talkingclock wrote:

Mate, I'm renting a house for myself. Before that i was sharing houses with others, mate.

If you don't rent your house and then complain about tear and wear then keep your houses for yourself. They will stay decades new, shiny and (most important) unused!

wear & tear is acceptable....

vandalism isn't and the non-payment of rent

The pictures I took are on my home pc...once I get a chance over the weekend I'll post up a few

Zambia

If you rented are car and slashed the seat cover you would pay.

If you got the seat a little dirty you wouldnt. Rent does not give you the right to damage a property to the extent it will cost "tradesmen cash" to repair...

Lex Luthor

if you hire a taxi and puke in it, you pay a soiling charge so therefore if you sign a tenancy agreememnt to clean carpets on return of the house, then you do it or pay for it to be done

Lex Luthor

here's a few pics I took the day I took the house back

Living Room Carpet

Another section of living room carpet

Here is just one small area of a wall about 18" square with five hooks in it. Most of these hooks took chunks out of the wall when removed
Wall

Just one of 3 walls with large stickers that took the paint off when removed
Bedroom wall

the garden that was left after it was levelled & seeded. the damage to the left side all along up by the fence was caused by rabbits that were kept out there, that I had also not agreed to
Garden

RuggieBear

tbh, the only issue i'd have there is the stickers on the wall...

actually that's not really fair. i can see why you are annoyed but i think you are wasting your time going to the hearing....but hey what do i know

Lex Luthor

RuggieBear wrote:

tbh, the only issue i'd have there is the stickers on the wall...

actually that's not really fair. i can see why you are annoyed but i think you are wasting your time going to the hearing....but hey what do i know

The pictures do the carpet justice...it looked a lot worse than it was considering it was brand new a year earlier.

It should have been cleaned before being returned and to say that the dirt was normal wear & tear was beyond a joke

we'll see what happens..roll on end of june

TCollins

Lex Luthor wrote:

They knew then that the place was not going to be returned in a satisfactory condition and hence the refusal to pay the last months rent

I always thought this wasnt allowed.
I can see why it wouldnt be allowed too, but is there really anything landlords can do to prevent tenants using their deposit as their last months rent?
I wouldnt think so.

Looking at your picture, that really is disgraceful. I would never dream of leaving a place i rented in that state.
Wait til you try to pull out those picture hangers. They always take lumps of paint and plaster with them.

Imposter

TCollins wrote:

I always thought this wasnt allowed.
I can see why it wouldnt be allowed too, but is there really anything landlords can do to prevent tenants using their deposit as their last months rent?
I wouldnt think so.

Looking at your picture, that really is disgraceful. I would never dream of leaving a place i rented in that state.
Wait til you try to pull out those picture hangers. They always take lumps of paint and plaster with them.

You can charge a bigger deposit!
The whole rental system in Ireland is a mess. Landlords and tenants can both be easily mistreated in terms of deposits etc. Long term renting is virtually impossible, tenants cannot really change the place to how they'd like it and landlords have to furnish a place which is very costly.

Over here in Austria a deposit is normally 3 months and the apartments are largely unfurnished (bathroom is generally mostly furnished and if you are very lucky the kitchen might be there - but you may have to buy the kitchen off the last renter!). The tenant must return the apartment to the landlord with all walls painted white and all holes from hooks etc filled in, basically returning it in the condition they got it in.

stovelid

talkingclock wrote:

Mate, I'm renting a house for myself. Before that i was sharing houses with others, mate.

Answering the question civilly (like I asked it) is enough. The other stuff just makes you look like a tit.

Victor

Behave and be nice to each other.

Lex Luthor

TCollins wrote:

but is there really anything landlords can do to prevent tenants using their deposit as their last months rent?
I wouldnt think so.

not really much I could do....failure to pay rent just means I have to give the required notice which was a month anyway

TCollins wrote:

Wait til you try to pull out those picture hangers. They always take lumps of paint and plaster with them.

already did pull them out and thats what happened
took me a day to fill the holes and sand them down and remove all the stickers and another day with a painter to do all the walls

Lex Luthor

Imposter wrote:

You can charge a bigger deposit!
The whole rental system in Ireland is a mess. Landlords and tenants can both be easily mistreated in terms of deposits etc. Long term renting is virtually impossible, tenants cannot really change the place to how they'd like it and landlords have to furnish a place which is very costly.

Over here in Austria a deposit is normally 3 months and the apartments are largely unfurnished (bathroom is generally mostly furnished and if you are very lucky the kitchen might be there - but you may have to buy the kitchen off the last renter!). The tenant must return the apartment to the landlord with all walls painted white and all holes from hooks etc filled in, basically returning it in the condition they got it in.

I work with a lad who just moved back from Switzerland and he said its the same there....it sounds like everything is run very smoothly and something about contracts being standardardised and you can buy them in most shops

when you think about it, 1 months deposit is really not enough....2 months should be minimum

dudara

The Austrian system works really well. A friend of mine lived there for a year. When she moved in, her flat was freshly painted white and spotless. She the proceeded to paint it herself to her tastes. When moving out, she repainted it back to white.

The marks on your carpet don't look too good at all. They can be quite hard to shift, especially if they've been left sitting for a while. What were they doing? Pouring bottles of coke all over the place?

johnnyskeleton

Lex Luthor wrote:

when you think about it, 1 months deposit is really not enough....2 months should be minimum

2 months rent is a lot of money to give to someone you don't know, who might shaft you out of it. That could be a couple of grand that you don't have - imagine taking out a loan for it costing a lot of money in interest over a year or more.

Lex Luthor

dudara wrote:

The marks on your carpet don't look too good at all. They can be quite hard to shift, especially if they've been left sitting for a while. What were they doing? Pouring bottles of coke all over the place?

not sure what was on them but teh guy from chemdry said it was caused by fizzy drinks alright and after a while if you don't wipe up sugar, it goes black...

they got out most of the stains but it cost me a lot more than I was expecting

Lex Luthor

johnnyskeleton wrote:

2 months rent is a lot of money to give to someone you don't know, who might shaft you out of it. That could be a couple of grand that you don't have - imagine taking out a loan for it costing a lot of money in interest over a year or more.

it is a lot but its a lot cheaper than the deposit to buy a house

hiscan

had a dispute with a tennant over 200 euro a quarter of their deposit they brought a case against me through the prtb i had to take a day off work to attend and then when the meeting was over they withdrew their claim but like someone said earlier it had already cost me more than 200 with a day off work and a 80 mile round trip so even though i won the case i got nothing out of it with what it cost me to attend ,by the way the other party only had to travel 1 mile
i mentioned this to the prtb officer who understood where i was coming from but there was nothing he could do about it
the system is a shambles

Victor

Lex Luthor wrote:

not sure what was on them but teh guy from chemdry said it was caused by fizzy drinks alright and after a while if you don't wipe up sugar, it goes black...

Dirt sticks to the semi-dry sugar.

antoinolachtnai

Lex Luthor wrote:

I got a friend who is a painter to help me get the walls back to a liveable condition and I have a receipt for the carpet cleaners.

I think I'm being fair

I would have claimed for the painter's time as well. When you are going to arbitration you might as well whack in the full cost.

Lex Luthor

antoinolachtnai wrote:

I would have claimed for the painter's time as well. When you are going to arbitration you might as well whack in the full cost.

I still had to pay him regardless of him being a friend....he still has to make a living.
I just got the "friend" price, thats all

Cathmandooo

I havent had time to read all the posts in the thread but I work for one of the adjudicators in the PRTB and do up the reports. If the tenant doesnt turn up the hearing will still go ahead, theyre quite strict on that, the only time i've heard it being adjourned is when the tenant has a medical report or once when a tenants father had just died.

I hope you submitted a good report of all the damages to the property including lots of photographs. Most landlords unfortunatly blow a lot of damages way out of proportion. The PRTB will always account for general wear and tear. Did you pay the tenants back their deposit? If you have treated your tenants well and have been completely above board with everything, i.e. any repairs that have been requested done without delay, any reimbursements for tenants paying for repairs paid on time, and sufficient notice in writing to vacate the dwelling then the PRTB will be well in favour of you being paid damages by the tenant. If you have any new evidence bring it along on the day of the hearing, if its short enough for the adjudicator to quickly run thru then it'll be added to the case once the tenant doesnt object, which they will if they turn up!!!

antoinolachtnai

Do you know how the damages can be collected Cathoo?

We appreciate the view from the inside!

Cathmandooo

antoinolachtnai wrote:

Do you know how the damages can be collected Cathoo?

We appreciate the view from the inside!

We don't deal with the collection of damages, we just give our report to the PRTB and they then deal with it. In our report we would put that the landlord/tenant must pay within 7 days of date of issue of the report. As far as I'm aware it's then treated like any fine in the country, if it is not paid up they can be summonsed to court and made pay a higher fine or face possible prosecution.

gibo_ie

Point to note Lex is that all repairs done will be written off against your tax paid in your self assessment next year so you wont be out of pocket at all. Just speak with a good accountant, it all counts!!!
(Note: I am a landlord of a number of properties so i know how this feels but its just to be expected and not the end of the world)

Lex Luthor

gibo_ie wrote:

Point to note Lex is that all repairs done will be written off against your tax paid in your self assessment next year so you wont be out of pocket at all. Just speak with a good accountant, it all counts!!!
(Note: I am a landlord of a number of properties so i know how this feels but its just to be expected and not the end of the world)

I don't buy into that gibo....

Why should everyone else pay for the tenants failure to pay their way?