Waterford Open Hand (input from boardsies who played against John Ward appreciated!)

brianmc

Right, the below is a hand from the Waterford Open €500 game. It was played against the eventual winner of the tournament, John (Dee) Ward. I'd particularly appreciate some input from some of the other boardsies who ended up playing against him because his style of play was - unusual.

Anyway, for those who didn't get to play against him - he is basically uberLAG. On day 1 he was two to my left and got involved in (without too much exaggeration) about 80% of pots. From EP he would limp call a lot and from LP he would limp or raise. It worked a treat for him. the only players on the table who were ever likely to reraise him light were on his immediate right. the players on his left were all tight passive. On flops, he would come out firing and firing big. He didn't always have anything but if he had any piece of it he was likely to hang in there to the end. Unfortunately he also had an incredible ability to land big hands. It didn't take long for him to get to the point where his stack was three times the average and everyone at the table knew that they were going to have to put tanks on the line.

Me - all I could do was wait for the goods or at least try and make the goods cheaply on the flop.

To the hand... I have about 14000 - John has about 35000

I'm on the button with AKs. A couple of limpers ahead of me and I raise to 600 from 150. John on the BB is the only caller.

Flop: 49Tr (pot ~1500)

John checks - I bet 1300 - John calls.

Turn: T (pot ~4100)

John leads for 2500. When the T fell, I expected him to represent the trips. I really can't decide whether he has any piece of it here. There is every possibility that I'm still ahead but I don't believe for a minute that he would lay anything down to a push. I call and decide to re-evaluate the river.

The river is an Ace. (pot ~9100)

John pushes. I didn't expect this. He has only done it once before but we didn't see what he had - at the time I suspected a monster. everyone else seemed to suspect air.

So... How do we all feel about this?

Lafortezza

Things you are behind: a flopped set, a ten, AA. Given the size of the pot and John's play so far I think it's an easy call.
I could easily see him turn up with Ax here from the info you've provided.

fuzzbox

Against this guy, I prolly check the flop, call the turn and call any river bet (on this particular river) (maybe even push myself if he doesnt bet enough)

And if I do decide to bet the flop, I dont bet so much.

The Scrapper

I also played on this table but I think you were gone by the time i got moved to the table, from wat I saw he bet big most of the time and really put people to decisions for either most of or all of their chips and he was very good at it too...most of the time his chips went in he had the goods (well certainly any time he was called down and went to a show down )


he ended up taking me out with his A A v my A K on an Ace high flop

he played well fair play to him

Norwich Fan Rob

john was a legend all weekend.
his table presense was awesome, and u knew he was capable of anything.
he called raises or even jams light a few times, but never for a huge % of his stack.
his pass with KK on the final table was literally world class, and he was a worthy winner in the end in my opinion.
i had him to my left for almost all of day 2 and day 3 til the final table.
he was always the one player i didnt want to get involved with.
but in fairness, he hit an awful lot of hands.
also, the spirit in which he played the game should be a lesson to all.

in your above example, he can have anything from a T to air, i woulda just folded the turn, no point taking him on in marginal situations.

Lazare

His flop check call would've sent alarm bells off given your description, I doubt he's playing a draw this way, more likely a set. Although, given his table image, and the fact that Rob said he was a quality player, surely he'd lead a set?

Hectorjelly

It sounds like this guy is awful. These players look like geniuses when they hit cards. Since you are in position you should really check this flop, you dont want to make the pot any bigger with ace high and a guy who is going to make it very hard to get to a showdown.

As played I really dont like the turn call, you will sometimes be drawing dead, and he has check called a bet on the flop - he probably has a pair. Its a pretty big bet and you are setting yourself up for a bigger one on the river.

The way to combat these players is to get a real hand and get them to pay you off with their rubbish hand

Flushdraw

Norwich Fan Rob wrote:

john was a legend all weekend.
his table presense was awesome, and u knew he was capable of anything.
he called raises or even jams light a few times, but never for a huge % of his stack.
his pass with KK on the final table was literally world class, and he was a worthy winner in the end in my opinion.
i had him to my left for almost all of day 2 and day 3 til the final table.
he was always the one player i didnt want to get involved with.
but in fairness, he hit an awful lot of hands.
also, the spirit in which he played the game should be a lesson to all.

in your above example, he can have anything from a T to air, i woulda just folded the turn, no point taking him on in marginal situations.

This laydown was blown way out of proportion. The whole place went mad, but i wasnt that impressed.

John had about 500k and Eddie 450k. John raises to 55k and Eddie, while stacking his chips stands up and rubs his head. He then looked over to John and says "Youre a nice fella and i like you, so i'm telling you now and i'm allin"

Eddie doesnt BS like this without the goods and he's not saying it with AK or QQ. John thought for about 3 seconds and confidently laid down KK and Eddie flipped over AA.

The 2nd time John got KK, he made it 60k, Victor makes it 180k and John pushes allin. Victor had AA and he lost his chip lead. Ul for him to run into AA twice though.

The lads in the side event were saying John has a rep for calling allins etc with any 2 picture cards, hence his instacall of your allin with KJ.

In the hand above, i would have checked behind on the flop, called the turn and defo call the river push

fabsoul

Hectorjelly wrote:

It sounds like this guy is awful. These players look like geniuses when they hit cards. Since you are in position you should really check this flop, you dont want to make the pot any bigger with ace high and a guy who is going to make it very hard to get to a showdown.

As played I really dont like the turn call, you will sometimes be drawing dead, and he has check called a bet on the flop - he probably has a pair. Its a pretty big bet and you are setting yourself up for a bigger one on the river.

The way to combat these players is to get a real hand and get them to pay you off with their rubbish hand

He cracked AA with 84o on day 3 last 2 tables

mdwexford

he was definitely not a quality player according to some of the hands i was told about over the weekend, quite the opposite in fact. reminded me of a certain Jamie Gold, perhaps thats a tad harsh as i have no first hand evidence but maybe some people who were on his table can confirm or deny???

gkenny

in a hand after the kk laydown eddie raises utg
john on the button says "i wont even look at ya them aces are stuck to ya"
eddie flips over aces

Flushdraw

fabsoul wrote:

He cracked AA with 84o on day 3 last 2 tables

That was against Spoofing Jam. Blinds were 3000/6000 and Johnny(Spoof) makes it 23k with AA. He was called by the BB and it all went in on a J84 flop

fabsoul

Flushdraw wrote:

That was against Spoofing Jam. Blinds were 3000/6000 and Johnny(Spoof) makes it 23k with AA. He was called by the BB and it all went in on a J84 flop

Blinds were 4000/8000 there was a 40k bet on the flop and John called but was flop J45 turn 8 John then went all-in.

RichieLawlor

Flushdraw wrote:

That was against Spoofing Jam. Blinds were 3000/6000 and Johnny(Spoof) makes it 23k with AA. He was called by the BB and it all went in on a J84 flop

Not quite, he called 30k on a J 8 5 flop and all the money went in on the turn which was the 4

Lazare

All three descriptions of the hand are horrific.

Flushdraw

Lazare wrote:

All three descriptions of the hand are horrific.

i didnt see the hand. Obviously theres a few versions knocking around but they are all v bad

The_Chopper

While the hand is bad - that's just the way John Ward plays. He's very lucky and his style works for him (not that I agree with it). He likes to put pressure on his opponents when he's risking a small percentage of his stack. In this case I believe the guy had nearly half a million in chips and just saw it as another chance to bust someone.

What actually happened in the hand was this
Blinds were 4000/8000 and it was raised to 23k prelop. John called 15k more from the BB with 84 on the blind. Flop J85 - 40K bet and called by John. Turn 4 and all the money went in.

Again I'd like to stress this is horrible poker - but this is an excellent advertisement for the bingo games that happen in galway and the rewards that are given accordingly. He and others play like this all the time and win pots hitting 4 and 5 outers reguarly. GOD MUST LOVE THE BINGO PLAYERS IN THE WEST

For the record John is a good guy and a mate of mine - I just think he's a horrid POKER player (world class at bingo though)

fabsoul

Ok it bad but it short handed John is BB 15k more he has 500k
and that what type of cards he play, and raised with.

Norwich Fan Rob

i played with john for longer than anyone over the weekend, and he was on my direct left the whole time.
yes, he calls with a wide range, yes he bluffs a lot, but he IS hard to play against.
and he is no where near as bad as others are making out on this thread.
he ran well during the tourney, but i believe its not the first time hes got a lot of chips together recently, and he still took it down despite running KK into AA a few times.

as HJ says , the way to play him is leave him alone, unless u have a monster, which is what i did.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

The_Chopper

Norwich Fan Rob wrote:

i played with john for longer than anyone over the weekend, and he was on my direct left the whole time.
yes, he calls with a wide range, yes he bluffs a lot, but he IS hard to play against.
and he is no where near as bad as others are making out on this thread.
he ran well during the tourney, but i believe its not the first time hes got a lot of chips together recently, and he still took it down despite running KK into AA a few times.

as HJ says , the way to play him is leave him alone, unless u have a monster, which is what i did.

From what all the lads told me this is the best he's ever played and people stil think he's a bit of a maniac - so imagine his normal game on a tues evening in a rebuy tourny,

Goodluck2me

they say he`s 12feet tall, and can breathe fire, and he once ate a lion.

Hectorjelly

goodluck2me wrote:

they say he`s 12feet tall, and can breathe fire, and he once ate a lion.

lol!

ocallagh

Brian, I raise more preflop. You have a few limpers and the BB is an aggro lunatic. I make it 900 or even 1k.

As for the rest of the hand I agree with HJ's comments. Check flop, fold turn (as played), wait for big hand, win tournament.

valor

call

brianmc

Thanks for all of the feedback folks. I didn't realise this thread would get beyond two or three posts.

I think I generally agree with checking behind on the flop or as Fuzzbox suggested at the least making my flop bet smaller.

As for John Ward... The man is now officially a legend (this may or may not be anything to do with poker abilities). I wrote a bit of a trip report yesterday and when it was done I realised it was all about a man called John. It seems appropriate to stick it in here... The details of the rest of the hand are in there too.

brianmc

Day 1 was a nightmare for me. Well... perhaps that's an overstatement but it really did never get going. I was in seat one and in seat two was a reasonable tight aggressive player. In seat three was the acclaimed and soon to become legendary, John Dee Ward.



I didn't know how to take John Dee to start with. He was of the super-speech coupled with uberLAG-betting school of play. At first I had him pegged as a megadonkey deserving of crippling at the first available opportunity. I would have paid a second entry fee just to get him on my right hand side. His speech play was nonstop and cutting and he played roughly 90% of hands raise or no raise. On the flop, he'd come out firing. Wehn all of this combined with his incredible ability to hit flops, soon his tank was three times anyone elses on the table and you had to assume that all of your chips were going to go in on any hand you played.



So, the plan was... errr... the plan was... Well, actually there was very little I could do. I was out of position so I couldn't play the old 78s and so on. I guess the plan was to sit tight and hit cards.



I didn't get cards. No... that's not accurate. I got 3 hands on Day 1.



First was QQ in early position quite early on and I raised from 100 to 400. A rock across from me reraised to 2500 and I made what was possibly my best play of the tournament. I laid them down. I'm pretty sure he had KK.



The second hand was AKs on the button. I raised and "the soon to be legendary John Dee Ward" called from the BB. the flop came 10 high (49Tr). John Dee checked, I bet and John Dee called. Hmmm... The turn was another 10. John Dee lead out this time as I would expect him to in that spot. It was a marginal spot, but I called - It's quite possible for me to still be ahead there. The river was an Ace. John Dee pushed. I had about 9.5K behind and of course he covered. There was about 7 or 8K in the pot. ****. My read was that this was essentially a 50-50. He could be playing a 10 - he's a bit "like that". I had seen about an hour of his play but I had only seen one other hand where he pushed and it didn't go to show down. Other possibilities of course are that he's also playing an Ace and I'm outkicking him; he has air; he has a full house (a set of fours). It took me a long time to make the decision but I decided to go with my physical read. His pulse was racing. His speech play had dried up. He was leaning back on his chair away from the table. I folded.



After another dry spell, hand number three was to be AJo in late position again. I raised preflop and again, the "now legendary John Dee Ward" looked me up from the blinds. The board this time came an awful looking 7TKr. JD checked. I bet (about 1500 leaving 5K behind). JD called. ****! That was it, I decided. He has a pair - top middle or bottom I don't know - but I was pretty sure he would look me up to the end. Down to 5K - this was going to be tough.



The turn, however, was beautiful. It was like being smacked by a car and then waking up to find an angel (not a real one - a proverbial one) looking into your eyes, stroking your forehead with a cool damp cloth and soothing your pains. In summary - it was a good card for me. It was of course, the Q.



Just when you think it can't get any better - John Dee silently throws a 5K chip onto the felt. After a brief pause of disbelief coupled with trying to confirm that it's actually a full 5K bet without giving the game away - I call and I'm back up to ~16K.



From there I can do very little else for the rest of Day 1. John had the table all locked up and the odd couple of hands where I played preflop I had to let go on the flop. The day finally ended (Thank God!) and I was on 13625. As for JD - he was chip leader with 126K + change.



Day 2.



Day 2 began with 10 minutes of the 200-400-25 level still to play. My plan from the day before was the best I could come up with for Day 2, apart, obviously from looking for opportunities to reraise all-in. I was more ready and awake than I had been from Day 1. I felt I could make a come back here.



I was the first to take my seat at table 5. John Dee was next to arrive.



At this stage I was starting to get a handle on this guy (as a person anyway). Something was confusing me for most of the previous day. His speech play was cutting and nonstop. His betting was forceful and dominating. His presence at the table took control. He may have been making crazy donkey calls and getting lucky - but, he was actually a very nice guy. All of his speech play was directed at the game and how hands were going to play out. He always had a hand shake and a smile when somebody exited. He was buzzing on this tournament and really enjoying himself. He was making his calls with the enthusiasm of somebody who was loving the gamble. He wasn't there to nit it up and play "correct" poker - he was there to ride the wave and he knew and understood all of this.



Anyway, I probably warmed to him when he sat down, shook my hand with a big cheery smile and started asking me about the last hand he had played the night before and what I thought of it. (He had called a huge bet for over a third of his tank with a flush draw against what turned out to be the nut straight. He hit.) I asked him about the hand with my AK and he claims to have had the under-full with a set of fours. He seemed pretty genuine about it. I think I believe him. Anyway, once the rest of the table appeared it was back into action.



There were four significant hands for me on day 2.



Hand 1 was actually hand 1. We started the day with me on the BB. There were 2 limpers, the SB completed and I checked with 97o. The board gave me top two pair! A hand!! I decided to let someone else take a stab at the pot - it was an aggressive table. Nobody bet. The turn was raggy and I made my stab at the pot, but nobody called. Still. Not a bad start. I was back above the starting stack!!



Hand 2 was actually hand 2! In the small blind I got KK. Everybody folded around to the button who limped. I raised and won the pot there and then. Hmmm...



Hand 3 wasn't actually hand 3, it was about hand 5. I got AA in LP. UTG - not particularly tight - not particularly loose - raised. It was folded to me and I pushed. UTG called with the shakes and I'm thinking wow unlucky dude - AA Vs KK. I was wrong though. It was AA Vs AA. The board landed two diamonds and I looked around to see where the diamond was - he had it! Another diamond on the turn and I can feel a little tingle down the back of my neck, but a spade on the river relieved it.



From here I bounced up and down a bit but the 19K or so eventually dwindled to 9.5K with the pressure of blinds, John Dee's continuous raising and a lack of anything pushable.



Hand 4 happened in the cut-off. In the previous hand the guy on my left had won a big pot and was trying to stack it. He was still stacking as the cards were dealt and he apologised to me saying he'd be out of my way in a moment, looked at his cards, went to muck them and then realised he was way out of turn. It was folded around to me and I pushed with ATo (blinds were 400-800-50 now). The button mucked - no surprise. And then - the "now firmly etched into my memory, never to be forgotten, legendary, one and only John Dee Ward" threw a handful of chips into the pot, the BB folded and he turned over QQ. A smile and a handshake was all that was left for me.



And there endeth the interest of my investors.



I played the €250 game and lasted about 4 levels. I won that back in the cash game though.



Yesterday morning I was up earlier than expected so I ended up down in reception reading a newspaper while the Kelly brothers slept on. John Dee spotted me in the reception area and came over to shake my hand and then sat down and asked me for advice. He was buzzing like a child on Christmas morning. He was chip leader with 18 players left. All I could tell him was not to put himself under pressure trying to win the tournament. Play his normal game and play the hands when he knew they were right. I don't think he needed my advice. He card racked his way to the win. I'm pleased for him though.



It was a fun weekend.



P.S. If anybody here knows John, tell him that Table 5 Seat 1 says congratulations and it was a pleasure to play against him.

Hectorjelly

good report.

slegs

This isnt Sligo John by any chance is it?

The Istanbul

Nice to read these: anyone else follow suit?

Daithio

This guy was also the reason for my downfall. I didn't really play with him long enough to find out whether he was actually good or just a spanner in the works for other players, but as Rob says he is definitely difficult to play against unless you have the goods. The hand that I lost most of my chips on to him went like this.

I'm on 180k, he has about 300k, blinds 2k/4k, ante 300. He makes it 12k from the button, I'm in the sb with 88. I've heard this guy is a maniac (but I've only been at the table for about 10 mins) so decided not to reraise as it was very likely he'd call and I'd be OOP with a difficult hand to play postflop on a scary board. So I flat call, and the flop comes down JJJ. I check, he instabets 20k. I'm certain I'm still good, so I flat call. Turn is a T. I check, he instabets 20k again, I call. River K, check, he bets 25k, I call, he flips over T8. I think I should have tanked the flop, as I was certain I was good and there was so much in the middle already, but I got greedy gambling that he wouldn't hit his 6 outer (or as it turned out his 3 outer). Also from hearing how he played I knew he'd keep betting regardless and he could very easily have had cards in his hand below an 8.

Anyway the next hand I played against him is a battle of the blinds, I'm on 80k, he's got about a billion in front of him, average is about 110k, and blinds are still 2k/4k. I'm a bit on tilt after the previous hand against him. He limps from the SB, I check behind with K9. Flop Qd9d2x. He checks, I bet 5k, he makes it 15k and starts his speechplaying routine. I decide that from hearing about how he has been playing that I'm good here enough of the time to warrant a push, especially considering it's such a draw heavy board. I thought it was very likely he could have a weaker 9 also and I might even get a call from him in that spot. Opinions on this? I'm not particularly proud of how I played it, he'd definitely gotten inside my head, and from the previous hand against him I definitely wasn't thinking very straight.

earthworms

no its not sligo john its a different john.

John Ward makes a lot of money in Galway and as the chopper says these are the kinda players that constantly win in the west. He's not a good poker player, he will literally gamble his whole stack at any given stage in a tournament with any kind of draw. He gets very very lucky and its paying off for him at the moment.

He's probably been the most talked about player in Galway over the past couple of months and he is a spot on guy. I just worry for him when his luck runs out

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

fabsoul

LuckyLloyd wrote:

So this Dude is the Galway version of the Chief then?

No he not that bad!!!!!

Hoki

Id play with John in the Westwood every wednesday , absolute sound lad and the biggest card rack ever !
Was on his table for the whole of last wednesday and almost from the start he was accumulating chips . Nearly every hand he had was a pair - no exaggeration , iv never seen anyone flop as many sets , at the break he was chip leader and with about 12 people left he had way over 110,000 in chips with the average being 40k.
I tried to avoid being in pots with him as i know how loose and hard to shake off a pot he is , doubled up off him once with 6 6 but in the end he knocked me in 12th . I raised it up to 6K UTG with 9 9 (blinds 800/1500) , folded round to john who goes all in , i kicked myself and dwelled up for a while trying to figure out what he had , in the end i called for all my chips (15K) , he turned over KK and i banged my head off the steering wheel the whole way home. He ended up finishing 2nd for close to 2 grand which im sure covered for his weekend where he made a lot more than that!

RichieLawlor

I was on Johns immediate right from the start (table 5 seat 2) and after on 2 orbits i had him down as the person i was getting a lot of chips from. We had a bit of a war of words early as i was constantly dumbfounded by the monkey plays he was making. ex. limping under the gun then calling a raise with 10 7 off and calling all the way with 2nd pair only to make a str8 n the river.

Well midway thru level 5 (150-300) i raise to 1000 from utg and john immeaditly pushes all in for 50k??? WTF. Sylvester lays down Ah Qh and John McGill passes Q Q. and i call quickly with J J certain that im ahead and he tables 10 10 and im up to 30k. I was sure i was getting the rest soon.

But anyway ill put up a full report later but my overall opinion of john ward was he was an uber lag who got very lucky but i did get on very well with him after the early spat and he seems like a very nice guy and was running hotter than the sun.

His style will either see him with a lot of chips early (and in fairness he is very hard to deal with whwn he has) or at the bar with mike lacey:D

smurph

LuckyLloyd wrote:

So this Dude is the Galway version of the Chief then? And just like the Chief for an extended period of about 10 months, he can do no wrong at present as he runs good.

The Chief ain't winning at the moment...

..... thought he was top of the Tournament leader board in the S.E.? and is top of the new list aswell??

kingpin55

Ive played with John a good number of times, and he is very tricky to play against, super aggressive and hard to shake him off on a flop, his flat calling strategy can slow a player down no end and put spiking doubts into their heads about what he is actually holding!

I talked to John last wednesday before waterford, he told me he was gonna try out a new gameplan in waterford, and test run it that night in the westwood...now considering he came 2nd that night and won the 500 in waterford two days later id say this gameplan is working for him.
Alot of people say hes jus lucky and what not and makes terrible calls, however if the tables are turned and John is put in for most of/whole of his stack he is very capable of folding(even a large draw), i have witnessed it.

Im never to pleased when hes on my table cos hes extremely difficult to play against, and to have this trait automatically makes him a quality poker player.

That being said hes an absolute howl at the table and now an absolute legend!

Lazare

Seems like a really sound guy, and an addition to the many characters on the Irish poker scene.


Great report Brian.

strewelpeter

smurph wrote:

..... thought he was top of the Tournament leader board in the S.E.? and is top of the new list aswell??

I thought that was for hours played :eek:

pppspecial

didnt get to play on the same table as you john but 1 things for certain...i aint looking forward to it.
you should frequent this board more often maybe set up an account and post a few hands... john ward aka "FISH WITH CHIPS".
good luck and see you in drogheda.

smurph

strewelpeter wrote:

I thought that was for hours played :eek:

Sorry I think your right, Im getting it mixed up with the tournmanet league where you get points for Tournament wins, placings etc.,

Flushdraw

smurph wrote:

Sorry I think your right, Im getting it mixed up with the tournmanet league where you get points for Tournament wins, placings etc.,

No youre right. Himself and Mickste are top of the tournament league

Flushdraw

Daithio wrote:

Anyway the next hand I played against him is a battle of the blinds, I'm on 80k, he's got about a billion in front of him, average is about 110k, and blinds are still 2k/4k. I'm a bit on tilt after the previous hand against him. He limps from the SB, I check behind with K9. Flop Qd9d2x. He checks, I bet 5k, he makes it 15k and starts his speechplaying routine. I decide that from hearing about how he has been playing that I'm good here enough of the time to warrant a push, especially considering it's such a draw heavy board. I thought it was very likely he could have a weaker 9 also and I might even get a call from him in that spot. Opinions on this? I'm not particularly proud of how I played it, he'd definitely gotten inside my head, and from the previous hand against him I definitely wasn't thinking very straight.

I wouldnt be mad about the push in that spot Dave. A better player would fold a bad queen to you, but seems as he'd probably call with Q3, i'd wait for a better spot