Conversation at door with Fianna Fail Candidate

Mellor

I just had a interesting conversation with a Fianna Fail candidate who was canvassing in the area.

There was a knock at the door and I was greeted by a representitive of one of the local FF candidates. It started normal enough, am I voting, what do i do. At which point the representitive said she was a nurse. My aunt who was over came to the door when she said this (as she is a nurse). And the topic of the current offer to the nurses came up, basicly asking the rep how she felt about this.

At this point, the FF Candidate walked up,

The rep introduced us, saying "his is X and Y, and she's a nurse"
FF:"Well we won't hold that against you"

There was a bit of discussion on the nurses topic, he was saying things like we've met you halfway and if nurses get it they'll all want it etc

Then this came up,
FF:I'm a businessman, my employees often want less hours too. And I do my best to accomadate them.

Me: (Possibly unknown to FF, but I was aware what his business was) But its slightly different. You own a pub/nightclub and a supermarket, both operate during set hours, night-time and daytime respectively. And most workers are younger people who work for minimum wage. And on a pro-rata basis. Hours worked is irrelevant. Nurses are working for a salery, and are providing care for people 24hours a day

FF: Well business is changing, supermarkets are 24 hours now aren't they?

Me:You own <supermarket> don't you, is that 24 hours.

At this point he start talking over me. So i stopped him and repeated the question, and he start talking over me again.

Me:Sorry, its a yes or no question. Is it open 24 hours.

FF:No, its not. Are you just trying to be cheeky.

Me: No, Im just trying to point out that there is a huge difference between nursing and working in a shop. Most people in a shop aren't on a salery for set hours. It minimum wage on a pro-rata basis, it doesn't apply.

FF: But there is all sort of bonus, like most supermarkets pay time and a third or time and a half on a saturday and sunday.

Me:No they don't.

FF:Yes they do! I own one.

Me:Ok, if you can name me one supermarket in the country that gives extra pay on a saturday i'll promise you my vote right here?

FF:em....em...I can't

Me:Obviously you were aware of that beforehand. Your the manager of a shop.

FF:No, Im the owner

Me: You still should of known.

FF:I made a mistake and I corrected myself

Me:Sorry, I corrected you. And it was more than a mistake, it was deliberate.

FF:NO...No...No. I don't tell lies.
At this stage he was shouting at the door

Me:Yes you did, and your doing it again.

FF:THATS IT, WOULD YOU EVER GET LOST!!
And he stormed off



To be honest, I was shocked at the way he presented himself and the party. I left his name and area out of the post as I'm not posting this to badmouth anyone.
I couldn't believe the way he told blatant lies to try prove a point. I know for a fact that he was aware what he was saying wasn't true. And only because I knew what business he was involved in, and because I worked in a supermarket during secondary school.
It might not come accross right in the post, but I wasn't being cheeky or trying to catch him out. I was polite and only replied to things he said.

Is this thing common?

Owen

Screw that. Name and shame!

mikemac

Can't see why you won't name and shame.
After all, there are many other threads here slamming candidates.

Mellor

Fair enough, I was unsure how it fitted in with forum charter.

Luke Moriarty, Fianna Fail, Dublin Mid-West
There is another FF candidate in the area, John Curran and he is involved with one half, and Morarty with the other (my area).

He owns the supervalue in palmerstown, and the courtyard in leixip

ArthurDent

Ya know I could'a guessed from the first post who you were going to name. Wouldn't be too worried it doesn't look like he has a snowballs chance in hell in getting elected.
And no I'm not posting this cos I'm anti FF, even though I am;) . I think the other FF candidate John Curran is a very decent bloke and he will be given a preference on my ballot paper.

Bateman

That's my missus' constituency, I spend a lot of time here. Shocking tactics to use alright. :eek:

Gael

The cheek of ya! Expecting a high-flyer hero like him to have to justify to you, one of the great unwashed, why you should vote for him. You should be honoured he graced your doorstep!

Captain Smiggy

My favourite so far has to have been <FF candidate> going to my mates and getting ripped to shreds by his ma.
It started civil enough, but degenerated to basically this

Mother: NO, THIS IS A FINE GAEL HOUSE AND IT ALWAYS WILL BE!
FF: well, you're entitled to that but...
M: NO, YOU SICKEN ME ****, YOUR WHOLE PARTY SICKENS ME
FF: yes, but....
M: GET AWAY FROM MY HOUSE
(door slams)

And people say politics is tame....

The White Rose

I'd love to work 35 hours for 50k (on average per year) - and I have far more qualifications than most nurses

Unfortunately I live in the real world where a company would go bankrupt if it gave 10% for 5 hours less per week.

But nursing is a vocation so that means you can blackmail the country before an election

Doran is an arrogant self publicist who will do to the nurses what the ASTI did for the teachers- lose the respect built up over 100 years

brianthebard

Well done op, if a candidate can't acknowledge simple facts about commonly known labour laws then what use will they be on any bigger issue? All these threads are making me nervous that someone will have one about my Da, but apparently he's been getting good receptions at the doorstep.

oscarBravo

Polite notice: this thread isn't about the nurses' dispute.

philologos

Mellor wrote:

Fair enough, I was unsure how it fitted in with forum charter.

Luke Moriarty, Fianna Fail, Dublin Mid-West
There is another FF candidate in the area, John Curran and he is involved with one half, and Morarty with the other (my area).

He owns the supervalue in palmerstown, and the courtyard in leixip

He has quite a campaign going as well. He had a van with a big poster plastered onto it outside of Superquinn in Lucan. Thanks for enlightening me on his campaigning, most interesting.

Izzyone

My sister lives in Lucan, she had a visit from Mr Moriarty. She asked what his feelings were on the ongoing struggle with poverty in Ireland, to which he replied that he didn't think that we have a problem anymore with poverty....little did he know that she works with the homeless in dublin and tries to rehouse as many homeless people as is possible on the budget that is provided. She asked him would he like to go out on the bus that she does 24 hour shifts on feeding the homeless around Dublin, He said to her that she was probably the wrong person to talk about poverty to.... She then continued to ask him why all Fianna Fail candidates are businessmen, to which he replied.....WAIT FOR IT. OH F*CK i CAN NOT ANSWER ANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS!
Thank you Mr Moriarty, I think you have answered them already she said. YOu will not be getting my vote

ArthurDent

brianthebard wrote:

Well done op, if a candidate can't acknowledge simple facts about commonly known labour laws then what use will they be on any bigger issue? All these threads are making me nervous that someone will have one about my Da, but apparently he's been getting good receptions at the doorstep.

Who's yer Daddy??? -:D Sorry - couldn't resist!

Snake Plisken

Yeah I live in Lucan and wouldn't vote for the FF candidates here as Curren never shows his face unless there is an election coming up or Bertie's in the area. But I'm wondering is it worthwhile voting for the FG' rep in the area as they've really had no representation in the area for the last couple of years. Maybe I'd be better off voting for Joanne Tuffy and the Greens Paul Gogarthy mmmm decisions decisions

Snake

LostinBlanch

Snake Plisken wrote:

Maybe I'd be better off voting for Joanne Tuffy and the Greens Paul Gogarthy mmmm decisions decisions

Snake

Snake,

I don't know anyone in that constituency, but you do know you can vote for more than one candidate? :rolleyes:

Rock Climber

I just deleted one reported post.
Folks do not be posting unsubstantiated allegations.
Thank you for your co-operation.

Time Magazine

Mellor wrote:

and the courtyard in leixip

Issues regarding breaches of the licence for his premises (i.e. The Courtyard) have been in court quite recently.

wow sierra

I live in a town with two Moriarty businesses both of which are really well run from a customers point of view, and great assets to the town. I'm not quite sure why some people seem to imply that being a businessman is a bad thing. I have never worked for him, and don't know what he is like as an employer, but he is well thought of from the point of view of community support/sponsorship.

I don't know Luke personally and while I am a Fianna Fáil supporter (for this election) I am not defending him for that reason. His behaviour on the doorstep does seem a bit unprofessional, and not what I would have expected but as I say I don't know him personally.

athtrasna

Is it just me or do Moriarty's posters make him look like that guy out of Fr Ted?

ninty9er

Most candidates know when they're not getting a vote so will stop taking the sh1te being shoveled at them....very few will go to those lengths though. Very unprofessional.

We had to correct a constituent on the doorsteps the other night and he eventually backed down(as he WAS wrong)...it was worth it because the vote was gone before we started. Now Moriarty seems to have taken it to the extremes and he should have at least had the courtesy to listen and not shout.

Seth Brundle

athtrasna wrote:

Is it just me or do Moriarty's posters make him look like that guy out of Fr Ted?

"I made the BBC"

Seth Brundle

Incidentally, I had someone knock at the door last Friday for a local FF candidate. it was the first time a canvassser for one of the two Govt parties had called since the calling of the election IIRC. Anyhow, I proceeded to attack him on everything I could think of.
Wwhen I raised e-voting as an example of (what I believe is) the government's arrogance, he responded by saying that "in all fairness it was a good system". When I rebutted by saying how there was no proper auditing featuree with the systems by means of a paper trail his response was "why would you need one?".
He then went on to tell me that had a paper trail been incorporated then proper PR and vote transferring would not have been possible.
Is this really the standard of canvasser FF are sending out?
In the end I just told him and his buddy who had just arrived (as if they didn't know it) that I would not vote FF this time & how that with due credit the government had created a succesful economy. However, they have failed to create a succesful society.
It made my evening I must say!

kbannon

kbannon wrote:

Is this really the standard of canvasser FF are sending out?

Do you really think the one canvasser who ended up at your door represents all FF canvassers across the country?

Or do you really think that all the stupid canvassers end up in FF, whereas the other parties have the smart guys? I have spoken before about political snobbery, but that's a new one.

You should have seen the drooling fool Labour sent to my friend's door. Although they didn't mind his evident insanity, it was the smell of last night's boozeup whenever he spoke that really did it for them.

Or the FG candidate and his brother, straight outta Dumb and Dumber.

I didn't feel the need to make gross overgeneralisations based on those two though.

Heinrich

Deleted User wrote:

Do you really think the one canvasser who ended up at your door represents all FF canvassers across the country?

Or do you really think that all the stupid canvassers end up in FF, whereas the other parties have the smart guys? I have spoken before about political snobbery, but that's a new one.

You should have seen the drooling fool Labour sent to my friend's door. Although they didn't mind his evident insanity, it was the smell of last night's boozeup whenever he spoke that really did it for them.

Or the FG candidate and his brother, straight outta Dumb and Dumber.

I didn't feel the need to make gross overgeneralisations based on those two though.

Had one at my door last week, Haughey. Not very impressive either. To;d him this was no longer a FF house and he replied "sorry"! He then scarpered.

RuggieBear

only had Ruiri Quinn to the door. He was most civil and answered the few questions i asked well. (admittedly all that was going through my head was the theme tune of Flash)

I'm getting sick of all the fianna fail pamphlets been put through my door tho. There does appear to be three times as much bumph from them as the other parties. (more money?)

DarkJager

I had one of these FF candidates on my door last week (Limerick West). After tearing his parties policies to shreds for 20 minutes I informed him that no Fianna Fail candidate would be getting my vote and went to close the door. Being the arrogant prick that he was, he stopped me closing it by putting his foot in the way and began chatting about all the good things FF have done for the country in the last 10 years!! (Seems he was a comedian as well as a politician)

I informed him, very politely, that if he didn't remove his foot from my door and **** off, that he'd be doing the rest of his hopeless canvassing on a set of crutches.

The cheek of these little ****ers really enrages me.

Seth Brundle

Deleted User wrote:

Do you really think the one canvasser who ended up at your door represents all FF canvassers across the country?

Not at all! The canvassers are sent out represent FF - not other canvassers. If they cannot get simple facts straight then they should not be allowed out.
The previous FF canvassers (who appeared prior to the election being called firstly decided to be smartarses when asked a sensible question and then proceeded to deliberately lie about the whereabouts of the person they were promoting (if they are going to lie then they should get their stories straight between themselves!).
This has not happened with canvassers for other parties (excluding the PDs who seem to feel that they need not call to our estate).

DarkJager

DarkJager wrote:

I informed him, very politely, that if he didn't remove his foot from my door and **** off, that he'd be doing the rest of his hopeless canvassing on a set of crutches.

The cheek of these little ****ers really enrages me.

Nothing like constructive criticism.

Whenever we meet the hysterical voter, I find the best thing to do is laugh and walk away. The candidate did the wrong thing by geting drawn into a discussion at all, a waste of everyone's time.

Seth Brundle

Deleted User wrote:

Nothing like constructive criticism.

Whenever we meet the hysterical voter, I find the best thing to do is laugh and walk away. The candidate did the wrong thing by geting drawn into a discussion at all, a waste of everyone's time.

Im kind of surprised at that response which Im putting down to FF loyalties.
What the canvasser did was downright wrong adn possibly illegal and all you can suggest is that the canvasser shouldn't have wasted time at the house in the first place?
Had it been a FG canvasser doing this would your reply have been as casual?

johnlambe

RuggieBear wrote:

I'm getting sick of all the fianna fail pamphlets been put through my door tho. There does appear to be three times as much bumph from them as the other parties. (more money?)

And we have to take their word for it that they aren't influenced by all the corporate donations that pay for the campaign.

kbannon

kbannon wrote:

Had it been a FG canvasser doing this would your reply have been as casual?

Had he been a SF candidate I would still think he deserved respect. It's easy to sit at home moaning, these are people who are out there trying to get their point across, standing at the coal face of democracy (I'm patting myself on the back for that one!). Canvassers have 101 better things to be doing than pounding the pavement. Sure, stopping the door with the foot was a bit cheeky, but he had taken 20 minutes of having policies torn to shreds by someone who could have politely declined after 10 seconds. That's all it takes me to tell other canvassers that I am in FF but I will consider their candidate after I have voted FF. If the poster thought the foot in the door was out of order, he should have gone to the gardai, they need some humour to get through the night too...

FTA69

Cheeky f*cker, telling you "get lost" on your own doorstep?

I'll be hunting any and all canvassers who come to my door after I give them an interrogation.

I used to canvass myself for Sinn Féin and had great craic altogether having dogs set on me, being told to kill myself and informed I was going to hell. One ould one even rang the police after I knocked on her door and gave her a leaflet.

It's a tough job, canvassing.

Time Magazine

RuggieBear wrote:

I'm getting sick of all the fianna fail pamphlets been put through my door tho. There does appear to be three times as much bumph from them as the other parties. (more money?)

From the Standards in Public Office website:

Disclosure of Donations received in 2006 by TDs, Senators and MEPs wrote:

Members of Fianna Fáil disclosed the highest proportion with a total value of €108,327.27

Members of Fine Gael disclosed €10,024.00

Members of the Labour Party disclosed €6,522.40

One member of the Sinn Féin Party disclosed €2,000.00

Non-party members disclosed €5,050

No donations valued in excess of €634.87 were disclosed by members of the Progressive Democrats, the Green Party, or the Socialist Party.

Spending is similar, with the exception of the PDs who, despite not declaring high donations, have massive spends. Research by Prof. Michael Marsh and Dr. Ken Benoit of TCD's Political Science department showed the average spend for party members in the 2002 General Election was:

Fianna Fáil: €22,800
Fine Gael: €16,800
Labour: €16,500
PDs: €23,500
Sinn Féin: €11,500

(Unfortunately I didn't get time to scribble down the Green Party's figure.)

Also ye might be interested to know that the biggest spender in 2002 was Mary Coughlan who coughed up €50,000 in expenses. And the interesting fact of the day is that if you work it out (and they did), an Irish vote "costs" only €3.

comer_97

I recently had Luke Moriarty, Fianna Fail, knock upon my door himself, which I always find a nice touch. He was a pleasant enough chap. He then told me that John Curran was not running in this constituency....

Hmmm.....

joecoote

Last election we were plagued with callers to the door. So I got hold of a SF leaflet and put it on the window. Three days to go and only one caller. He was a Labour fella who called while I was working on the car. He saw the leaflet on the window, shoved a Labour leaflet through the front door, got in his car and drove off. Its better than a rotweiller.

wow sierra

DarkJager wrote:

I had one of these FF candidates on my door last week (Limerick West). After tearing his parties policies to shreds for 20 minutes I informed him that no Fianna Fail candidate would be getting my vote and went to close the door. Being the arrogant prick that he was, he stopped me closing it by putting his foot in the way and began chatting about all the good things FF have done for the country in the last 10 years!! (Seems he was a comedian as well as a politician)

I informed him, very politely, that if he didn't remove his foot from my door and **** off, that he'd be doing the rest of his hopeless canvassing on a set of crutches.

The cheek of these little ****ers really enrages me.

So what is the correct response when a canvasser FF or any other party is subjected to a rant from a potential voter?
If they politely walk away they are criticised, if they attempt to argue their corner they are criticised too.

What did you expect? that he would say "Gosh golly you are in fact right, gee thanks!!!!"

Also surely tearing someone to shreds only works if you allow the person to actually respond. A bit like claiming to win a fight with someone who is tied to a chair and gagged. :mad:

Heinrich

wow sierra wrote:

So what is the correct response when a canvasser FF or any other party is subjected to a rant from a potential voter?
If they politely walk away they are criticised, if they attempt to argue their corner they are criticised too.

What did you expect? that he would say "Gosh golly you are in fact right, gee thanks!!!!"

Also surely tearing someone to shreds only works if you allow the person to actually respond. A bit like claiming to win a fight with someone who is tied to a chair and gagged. :mad:

Get a grip!!!

These clowns are as bad as the chuggers. Unsolicited callers to the door trying to sell their candidates. If they were that bloody luminous in the Oireachtas they would not need to hawk their wares on your doorstep.

The promises laid out in the party manifestos are made to be broken at the earliest possible convenience. Having seen the botch job made by the incumbents during the last ten years I reckon that Mr MacDowell's three monkeys with screwdrivers behind the television set would make equally as good a job at far less expense!.

johnlambe

wow sierra wrote:

So what is the correct response when a canvasser FF or any other party is subjected to a rant from a potential voter? ...

I agree that politely walking away and arguing their case are both reasonable responses, but putting his foot in the door is not.

P_1

Rock Climber wrote:

I just deleted one reported post.
Folks do not be posting unsubstantiated allegations.
Thank you for your co-operation.

Sorry about that, may have been a bit too strong.
Lets just say that I used to work for the man and from all I saw whilst working for him I'm not at all surprised about the event the OP described.

Milktrolley

Whenever canvassers/candidates do what the OP described, or stick their foot in the door or tell the resident to "get lost", it's not simply a matter of not getting a vote that you were never going to get anyway.

If they're lucky, the justifably angry resident will tell their voter friends about what happened and they'll have potentially cost themselves three or four votes after a few texts.

If they're unlucky, the justifably angry resident will post their dealings on boards.ie.

All part of the consequences that Moriarty et al didn't consider. Apart from all of that, it's just plain rude to go calling round to people's houses and doing a leithéid on their own doorstep.

fly_agaric

Deleted User wrote:

standing at the coal face of democracy

the poor canvassers are definitely shovelling something for their bosses but I don't think its coal...:)

lucernarian

Some of the canvassers have a hard time. I was out only one day for a few hours but I was lucky and didn't get any sort of rant. If any of the others got into trouble, they just sat it out with as much patience as possible and then left at the earliest opportunity. But putting a foot in the door is no way to conduct the canvass. A little bit of manners go a long way with the public and he did no favours to FF.

Funnily enough, one fella was kept at a house for 20 minutes, while listening to a torrent of criticism. Bizarrely, he actually asked for a vote for the party at the end of the lecture and the man in the door said "Yes I will"!!!:p

Mellor

comer_97 wrote:

I recently had Luke Moriarty, Fianna Fail, knock upon my door himself, which I always find a nice touch. He was a pleasant enough chap. He then told me that John Curran was not running in this constituency....

Hmmm.....

They are both in the same constituency, but John Curran deals with Clondalklin, and Moriarty with Lucan and palmerstown.

Mellor

To_be_confirmed wrote:

Some of the canvassers have a hard time. I was out only one day for a few hours but I was lucky and didn't get any sort of rant. If any of the others got into trouble, they just sat it out with as much patience as possible and then left at the earliest opportunity. But putting a foot in the door is no way to conduct the canvass. A little bit of manners go a long way with the public and he did no favours to FF.

Funnily enough, one fella was kept at a house for 20 minutes, while listening to a torrent of criticism. Bizarrely, he actually asked for a vote for the party at the end of the lecture and the man in the door said "Yes I will"!!!:p

A canvasser doing it is one this, but a candidate is far worse.

lucernarian

I think that a canvasser and a candidate putting a foot in the door like that is equally wrong, but also a candidate should lead by example. I wonder will we find out who this particular candidate is??

It would be good if DarkJager made a complaint with FF HQ in mount street or their election headquarters as that kind of behaviour is unacceptable. I think threatening the candidate was also heavy-handed...

arctictree

I had a FF canvasser at my door the other day. They literally had nothing to say at all. Just said hello, handed me the leaflet and walked off!! They should at least make some sort of effort! BTW - I'm still undecided....

johnlambe

To_be_confirmed wrote:

Funnily enough, one fella was kept at a house for 20 minutes, while listening to a torrent of criticism. Bizarrely, he actually asked for a vote for the party at the end of the lecture and the man in the door said "Yes I will"!!!:p

Probably someone who votes for the party because his/her parents (or ancestors going back several generations!) did - it doesn't seem to occur to them that if they don't like them, they could do something about it.

Crash

Little heavy handed? to be honest anyone dares to do something like put their foot inside my home to stop me closing the door on them would be very lucky to get away on crutches.

Thats something you should never do to anyone like, major invasion of privacy, and I know from the number of times that people have tried to break into my place that anyone doing it really gets my goat.

&#231

&#231 wrote: »

major invasion of privacy

One foot in your house?

:eek:

0ubliette

Mellor wrote:

I couldn't believe the way he told blatant lies to try prove a point.

You were shocked someone from FF lied to you?
Jesus, you musnt have been paying much attention to FF over the last 10 years so!!