Green party

BryanL

took this from the icabs site.this crowd are also anti shooting usually getting a letter or 2 into the papers at the start of pheasant,grouse seasons and any other chance they get

Green Party leader praises ICABS campaigners

Green Party leader, Trevor Sargent, has expressed his admiration for the active supporters of ICABS whose efforts are helping to secure a safer future for Ireland's animals.

"I commend your courage and dedication and those of the front line people in the Irish Council Against Blood Sports who have kept the hope alive for all of us who want to see the end to cruelty," Mr Sargent stated in a recent letter.

He stressed that his party's commitment to bringing blood sports to an end is as strong as ever.

"The Green Party is completely opposed to violence and cruelty to animals and as we campaign to take enough seats so that we can have a role in the next government we will do everything in our power to end these cruel activities."

ICABS is very grateful for this continued support and we hope that the Green Party secures a strong position in the next government. For more info on the Green Party, visit www.greenparty.ie.

dimebag249

I would never willingly treat any animal in a cruel or inhumane manner. Mr. Sargent on the other hand...

I met Sargent when he was in Trinity during Freshers Week...

Needless to say we didn't really hit it off....
In fact after a few minutes he just walked off out of Trinity

kowloon

Its cruelty to my ducks and chickens when i have to cage them to protect them from the overpopulation of foxies that im not allowed to cull.

Sparks

I hope everyone realises that it's not just the greens...

Bertie Ahern, An Taoiseach (FF, Dublin Central):
"I am totally opposed to hare coursing and I hope that...many more people reject hare coursing as a past-time, which can never justifiably be called a sport." (1997).

Seán Ardagh, TD (FF, Dublin South Central):
"I am not in favour of any kind of blood sports and will lobby whenever possible to have them banned."

Dan Boyle, TD (Green, Cork South Central):
My views on blood sports are quite simple. I believe that the use of animals against animals for the purposes of "sport", with the intent to kill or maim, is morally wrong and should be suitably legislated against.

Séamus Brennan, TD (FF, Dublin South):
"I have no difficulty in stating my own personal view which is that I am against all blood sports."

Joe Costello, TD (Labour, Dublin Central):
"I am opposed to all blood sports."

"The legislation is silent on blood sports. While it refers to hunting, this concerns licences for hunting and ensuring there is not indiscriminate killing of wildlife. The two are different. One is the shooting or culling of wildlife whereas bloodsports concern a person chasing wildlife for pleasure and enjoyment. We must address the bloodsports issue in Ireland. We have touched on it from time to time but we have never dealt with it seriously, either in terms of coursing, fox hunting, stag hunting or badger baiting or hunting, nor have we addressed the considerable cruelty attached to the manner in which it is done and the way the animal is treated both in the hunt and in the killing. We hear horrific stories every season. We must recognise that the animals involved are all wild animals, foxes, stags and badgers, and are hunted, not for human food but for human pleasure. That is what we must examine...Hunting for pleasure is unacceptable and the line must be drawn that, while there is commercial hunting, fishing and culling of wildlife, there should not be commercial or other forms of bloodsports where human beings not only chase animals but kill them, which is the normal outcome of the chase. It involves a considerable amount of cruelty, does not benefit anyone and does not redound to the well-being of or a sense of respect for animals which we should have. I urge the Minister to examine this issue seriously to see whether some movement can be made." (Speaking as a Senator in 16th November 2000).

Dr Jerry Cowley, TD (Ind, Mayo):
"I think [blood sports are] barbaric and totally unnecessary."

Seán Crowe, TD (SF, Dublin South West):
"Sinn Féin as a party is absolutely opposed to blood 'sports' and motions to this effect have been passed at the last two Ard Fheiseanna with overwhelming support. On my own part, I find these activities to be a loathsome practice and the argument that they are in some manner a necessary part of traditional, rural life insulting to the intelligence. I would be delighted to support any and all legislation, which restricts, or bans these 'sports'."

Ciarán Cuffe, TD (Green, Dun Laoghaire):
"I am against all forms of blood sports."

Jimmy Deenihan, TD (FG, Kerry North):
"It was I who proposed muzzling greyhounds for coursing and it is working very well."

Bernard Durkan, TD (FG, Kildare North):
"My views on live hare coursing are fairly well known. In fact, during debates on the subject in the late Eighties and early Nineties, I spoke publicly to the effect that I was opposed to live hare coursing."

Martin Ferris (SF, Kerry North):
"Sinn Féin are opposed to blood sports but do not concur with your own definition of coursing with muzzled dogs as a blood [sport]." (April 2004)

Eamon Gilmore, TD (Labour, Dun Laoghaire):
"I am opposed to the blood sports of badger baiting, cock fighting, dog fighting, hare coursing and stag hunting. Democratic Left strongly believes in protecting our wildlife and we are very concerned about the cruelty and impact on the various species of so-called blood sports."

Paul Nicholas Gogarty, TD (Green Party, Dublin Mid-West):
"Greyhounds must compete on merit and should not race after taking painkillers or other drugs to boost performance. Much concern has been expressed about the health and safety of the greyhounds but only a handful of Deputies have referred to the health and safety of hares. Deputy Gregory referred to the continuing practice of blooding and cruelty to dogs. Greyhounds are treated as commodities and put down once they have outlived their usefulness. The same applies to hares. Even in the regulated system where dogs wear muzzles, hares are held for up to six weeks and may be killed by stress or mauling during coursing meets.

"I have nothing against the greyhound industry per se. I acknowledge that a night at the dogs could be an enjoyable event but not at the expense of unnecessary cruelty and mistreatment of animals. Studies have shown that drag coursing provides a similar training for dogs without cruelty to hares.

"Notwithstanding the manner in which dogs are treated, a societal issue must be addressed. Many Deputies and well-heeled members of society enjoy going to the dogs and buying dogs. I am sure they would not condone the use of animals as commodities or cruelty to animals but this happens in the greyhound industry. Surveys show that 75% of people living in the countryside and 90% of those in cities oppose hare coursing, a considerable amount. The sport has blood on its hands and is under a cloud, irrespective of the contents of the Dalton report. An industry based on cruelty and exploitation should not be allowed to continue as it is." During a Dail debate on the Greyhound Industry (Doping Regulation) Bill 2006, 8th June 2006.

Noel Grealish, TD (PD, Galway West):
"I fully support your quest to ban live hare coursing."

Tony Gregory, TD (Independent, Dublin Central):
"Live hare coursing — a medieval and cruel practice — is still legal and should be banned outright as has been done in more advanced countries. Even the most prominent owners and trainers are involved in doping. The dog that won the coursing greyhound of the year award, Boa Vista, is owned by Vinnie Jones and others. It also won the Irish Cup 2005-06, sponsored by J.P. McManus, receiving prize money of €80,000. It tested positive for a banned drug following that win but we still do not know what drug was involved. The Irish Coursing Club is a law unto itself and is not fit to regulate anything involving animal welfare...This Bill is welcome if it can clean up one corrupt aspect of the greyhound industry. Regrettably, the industry is riddled with corrupt practices and a complete investigation into all aspects of the industry is needed. I refer in particular to the illegal, disgraceful practice of blooding greyhounds with live rabbits, hares and kittens. RTE ably exposed these practices some time ago." During a Dail debate on the Greyhound Industry (Doping Regulation) Bill 2006, 8th June 2006.

"Self enforcement is as effective as the Garda Complaints Commission. It is totally ineffective. There is no monitoring or independent checks. The rules [in the foxhunters' so-called code of conduct] are meaningless."

Tony Gregory is the vice-chairperson of the Irish Council Against Blood Sports.

Marian Harkin, TD (Ind, Sligo-Leitrim):
"It would appear logical to me that drag hunting should provide better enjoyment for horse riders. Since galloping and jumping would appear to be central to enjoying a day out, there is certainty of getting that every day with a drag. The drag...is also an advantage in going only where riders are welcome and would also avoid the damage caused to lands and fences which often occurs in a random hunt." (March, 2004)

"I oppose live hare coursing and will support any measure which aims to restrict or eliminate it." (October 2003)

Joe Higgins, TD (SP, Dublin West):
"I am opposed to the hunting of foxes by hounds as indeed I am opposed to live hare coursing."

Michael D Higgins, TD (Labour, Galway West):
Michael D Higgins is a former vice-chairperson of the Irish Council Against Blood Sports.

Enda Kenny, TD (FG, Mayo):
"I am opposed to the practice of live hare coursing."

Finian McGrath, TD (Independent, Dublin North Central):
"I support the plan to end doping and rigging of greyhound races. I demand standards in the industry to root out doping and sleaze. Although it is an important social and family event, the downside of it is coursing, on which we need a debate." During a Dail debate on the Greyhound Industry (Doping Regulation) Bill 2006, 8th June 2006.

Liz McManus, TD (Labour, Wicklow):
"I support a ban on live hare coursing, carted deer hunting and a tightening up of regulations on fox hunting."

Caoimhghin Ó Caoláin, TD (SF, Cavan/Monaghan):
"I am totally opposed to live hare coursing."

Noel O'Flynn, TD (FF, Cork North Central):
"I am on record as being totally opposed to all forms of blood sport. I will support any future legislation that will outlaw cruel blood sports."

Jan O'Sullivan, TD (Labour, Limerick East):
"I do not support blood sports."

Ruairí Quinn, TD (Labour, Dublin South East):
"I used to be a member of the Irish Council Against Blood Sports. Personally, I am against the hunting of live animals with dogs, i.e. fox hunting, live hare coursing and carted deer hunting."

Pat Rabbitte, TD (Labour, Dublin South West):
"I do not support bloodsports or hare coursing but I have no difficulty with age-old rural sports like fishing, shooting, etc within the terms prescribed by law."

Michael Ring, TD (FG, Mayo):
"I am personally against hare coursing. I am totally opposed to cruelty to animals but particularly this kind of cruelty in relation to blood sports."

Dick Roche, Minister for the Environment (FF, Wicklow):
"Neither you or anybody else will ever find any support from me for fox hunting." (The minister made this statement on 8th April 2007 in response to an email from a member of the public)

Eamon Ryan, TD (Green, Dublin South):
"Like most of my fellow Green Party TDs, I am firmly opposed to the current practice of fox hunting and hare coursing in the country which I feel cannot be defended on the grounds of preserving rural traditions or indeed any other conservation or rural development arguments.

"I also have a particular interest in improving animal welfare via a radical change in the industrial farming practices which I feel have the greatest detrimental effect on animal welfare in this country. Perhaps the two issues can be developed in tandem as a proper respect for our wild animals, and indeed the environment around us, might also lead to a greater respect for the animals which we use in our farming industry."

Trevor Sargent, TD (Green, Dublin North):
"I feel we have reached a point in our history where almost unanimous agreement has been reached in rejecting political violence and, to ensure that society develops respecting life in general, it is important I believe to reject violence in the name of 'sport' also.

"Foxhunting, however, does not need to be violent if it takes the form of a drag hunt which spares the fox from the torturous and exhausting chase with the possibility of horrific and slow death."

Views of current Senators

Senator Mary Henry (Independent):
"You can be sure of my support. I have spoken [against hare coursing] before and will write to Minister Dick Roche about it." (June 2005)

Senator Jim Higgins (FG):
"I am totally and unequivocally anti-blood sports. I think foxhunting is appealing to the lowest possible instincts in so-called civilised men. It is manifest barbaric cruelty."

Senator David Norris (Ind):
"The spectacle of fox hunting is most attractive, although not for the fox. However, we must do something to root out the horrible practice of live hare coursing. There is simply no justification for it if we are concerned about the welfare of small animals. I believe it is bad for the moral welfare of the people who watch the sport. No decent person should take pleasure from the hunting to death of a small, frightened animal. I agree with Senator Mooney about education - it is an important element in encouraging people to respect wildlife." (16 November 2000).

Views of former TDs

Ben Briscoe, TD (FF):
"All through my political life covering over thirty years I have been consistently against and spoken out against blood sports so you can take it that I will continue to do whatever I can to abolish blood sports."

Chris Flood, TD (FF):
"I am personally opposed to all forms of blood sports and would like to see an end to them...I will continue to work toward this objective."

Brendan McGahon, TD (FG):
"My views are fairly well-known. I'm totally opposed to hare coursing. It's a barbaric game and fox-hunting is even worse. In my youth, I used to course and was sickened by it. It's a dreadfully cruel game in which timid little creatures are butchered by dogs often psyched up and blooded beforehand by unscrupulous people. The hares are torn apart, watched and cheered by a group of blood-thirsty people, very often including local clergy.

"I'm a bit cynical about the impact of muzzling. When these dogs are travelling at very high speed and slide in for the kill, they can fatally injure these fragile creatures."
(Sunday Independent, January 11th, 1998)

Marian McGennis, TD (FF):
"You may be assured of my continued opposition to blood sports in Ireland."

Alan Shatter, TD (FG):
"I am totally opposed to hunting wild animals with dogs."

Thing is, much of what they're opposing - and many of them make the distinction explicit - is not hunting by shooting, but hunting using dogs.

It's also interesting to note that a lot more politicians and TDs have been members of the ICABS than have been members of the NARGC...

Clare gunner

Dont take it as face value that it is only coursing,foxhunting,deer hunting etc that they ar eagainst.They are not.
ICABS in house mags and letters to numerous papers over the years from current and Ex members have been riddled over the years with anti shooting type articles,usually penned by the good Mr John Tierney.Who has now departed ICABS for the more radical lifestyle of a hunt sabber. Lets face it,any group that associates and recives finance and assistance from the Leauge Against Creuel Sports [UK],is going to dance to their tune somtime.

Sparks

I didn't mean ICABS CG, I meant the TDs giving ICABS their opinions.

JuJuYNWA

At least i know my number one vote isn't an anti, he's an active member of my gun club! Emmet Stagg Lab Kildare North.

astraboy

I don't mean to get into a philosophical debate about political parties, but does anyone find it Ironic that SF oppose blood sports, yet think its ok for members of their party(sorry the IRA) to import guns illegally, and shoot guards while their members rob post offices? :rolleyes: All I can say is I hope SF never get into power.

Back on topic, I reckon no party is going to come out and directly oppose or fully support our position as shooters and hunters, at the end of the day the parties will at most issue broad guidelines, most parties will leave it to the desecration of each member and sitting TD to make up their own mind based on their experience and opinion.

maglite

amm astra the SF can never come out and say we support guns ,, think about it,, ti would be turned and twisted into SF want military state with everyone having guns

with all this talk of minority group(220,000) the nurses only had 4,5000

Sparks

with all this talk of minority group(220,000) the nurses only had 4,500

Yeah, but if they all went home, people would notice.

Banjax

The answer a politician gives to a question about bloodsport, all depends on who's asking the question.

Enda Kenny has some nerve to stand in Clonmel and promise he wouldn't touch coursing, but he was asked by a large crowd of coursing men. Ergo, he's all for it.

Clare gunner

More like most politicans..Whores..:rolleyes: .Will say and do whatever you want to get your money,or in this case votes.
No wonder those two professions are considerd the Worlds oldest.:rolleyes:

BryanL

from the Examiner,

09 June 2007

Greens can do their bit for abused wildlife

AMID all the weighty wheeling and dealing in the corridors of power aimed at producing a new government, politicians may overlook the plight of a brutally oppressed and voiceless minority.


I refer to the victims of coursing clubs, foxhunts and the country’s only stag hunt. The Green Party included in its election manifesto a clear commitment to seeking a ban on such cruel sports should it find itself in government. Animal welfare campaigners hope this manifesto pledge can be honoured.




I am not suggesting that the hare snatched from its home in the countryside, and then forced to run for its life from hyped up greyhounds, should take precedence over the need to maintain our Celtic tiger economy.

Nor would I dare suggest that concern about the pain and suffering inflicted by the rich and famous on our majestic stags ought to divert precious government time and resources from the urgent business of running the country.

Hare coursing, fox hunting and stag hunting can be swiftly obliterated by an aptly worded wildlife protection bill. No adverse economic consequences would ensue from such a move.

A ban on hare coursing only means replacing the live hare with a mechanical lure, a viable and humane innovation already undertaken by Australia’s greyhound industry. The advent of drag coursing could then open up the sport to people in Ireland who at present abhor the cruelty that inevitably accompanies the use of live hares in the sport.

Action to protect the Irish hare is doubly urgent as the State-run Parks and Wildlife Service now classifies the animal as an endangered species, as does the Red Data Book on Irish flora and fauna.

Likewise, drag hunting could replace the “pursuit of the uneatable by the unspeakable”, as it has in Britain since the baiting ban.

John Fitzgerald

Campaign for the Abolition of Cruel Sports
Lower Coyne St
Callan
Co Kilkenny

Clare gunner

Oh good ol John Fitz is at it again....:rolleyes: A chap with an intresting backround on the scene.Same letter in the Indo last week.Guy just mass faxes all the papers with his letters which range from anti fieldsports to world event comment. Proably all of two people in his o:rolleyes: rganisation.Just makes more noise than he is capable of actually doing.

Sparks

Well, you know what to do so CG... get out your pen and paper...

Vegeta

I agree with CG about that sad individual but we do face the very real posibility of the Greens getting into power and they could well push for the banning of some of our favourite sports.

Could be troubled times ahead

Clare gunner

Do many times Sparks.And have crossed swords with ol JF a good few times in the letters colums of our national press.Thing is;nowadays I let him rant on,as he overwinds the anti arguement clock.
Wouldnt be too worried about the Greens getting into power.They are already wavering on their "fixed"principles like Shannon as a precondition for govt.Not to mind live exports .They want a seat and a Merc just as bad as the other showers out there.

doctor evil

Who can we send letter/emails out to protect our past time?

Clare gunner

Kind of a prob Doc.
We REact to letters the antis send in.It is a two edged sword.We defned ourselves but then give oxygen to the antis cause by responding.
Plus apart from the odd "write by" by the more loony elements about shooting,usually after a tragedy.Which IMO shows the antis up as being totally callous and using a tragedy to advance their cause.They usually attack foxhunting ,coursing,bull fighting[now the current seasons favourite].

Speaking as a game shooter.
It is not to say that we shouldnt not help our coursing and fox hunting brethern with the odd moral support in letters,as they are in the frontline,and being pragmatic it is better to fight your wars on somone elses door than on yours.

The best tactic I think was this year with the liscense increase and the Virginia shooting.A ill informed editorial and anti letters were flooded out by us by a focused grassroots letter writing and emailing.We got our point across to the fact that alot of people sat up and took notice that there is a"gun lobby"in Ireland that was not going to be pushed about too easily anymore.

It is better to flood out a bad editorial,than bother giving a petty ill informed letter from the uneducated antis much more fuel.

Thats why it is proably better to let them rant and rave,as then people become bored with them,and just see "Oh its JF,Yourell or,Wright &Tierney again ranting on about animals.Hmm who died?Ill read the death notices for a change.Bunch of boring anti prigs."You can overdo publicity for your cause as well.

jaycee

From the Indo today....

Cowen can count on Finance but rest up for grabs


THE big question now for party bigwigs preparing to form the next government is: who will get the top jobs?

Brian Cowen as Minister for Finance is regarded as the only definite Cabinet appointment and he will possibly also become Tanaiste.

Whether the Green Party is on board or not, the political grapevine is buzzing about the line-up of the next Cabinet.

Ministers will be nervously waiting to see Bertie Ahern's team sheet, which won't be finalised until hours before he announces it in the Dail.

The Taoiseach has a habit of being conservative in his selections, showing an unwillingness to wield the axe too widely. He is also prone to eleventh-hour changes.

Until the make-up of the government is finalised with the PDs and the Green Party, it's impossible to tell how many ministerial cars are up for grabs.


Beyond Mr Cowen, Mr Ahern can make widespread changes to portfolios and shuffle around several ministers.

Mary Harney has clearly expressed her preference to remain as Minister for Health. This is not a foregone conclusion, however. If a decision were taken on ideological grounds to appoint a Fianna Fail minister, it would probably be Brian Lenihan.

After being the hot favourite for the Minister for Justice job, Willie O'Dea is now being caught by Dermot Ahern and Mr Lenihan in the betting for the vacancy left by Michael McDowell. Mary Hanafin is an outside shot.

Mr Lenihan is deemed to be virtually a certainty for promotion to a full ministerial post.

- Fionnan Sheahan

Anyone up to speed on the attitudes of the "Hot favorites" for the DOJ job...?

Vegeta

jaycee wrote:

From the Indo today....



Anyone up to speed on the attitudes of the "Hot favorites" for the DOJ job...?

Willie O'Dea has met with a member here and promised to review the license system and try and get one man one license.

Sparks

Yeah. He's also met with shooting associations in the past and told them that pistols are far too dangerous for civilians to have. He also has a reputation within the party for having a neck like a horse rider's nether regions. I'll be happily surprised if he gets the one-man-one-licence system. And what's this "try and get"? The Minister doesn't have to "try", that's the point of being the Minister!

Vegeta

Sparks wrote:

Yeah. He's also met with shooting associations in the past and told them that pistols are far too dangerous for civilians to have. He also has a reputation within the party for having a neck like a horse rider's nether regions. I'll be happily surprised if he gets the one-man-one-licence system. And what's this "try and get"? The Minister doesn't have to "try", that's the point of being the Minister!

way to be positive Sparks :rolleyes:

civdef

He also has a reputation within the party for having a neck like a horse rider's nether regions.

You'd be close to grassroots FF opinion then?

Sparks

I'm normally positive Veg, but we're talking politics here - optimism there's usually not rewarded well

Civ, not all of them, just in my neck of the woods. But every political commentator I've ever heard talk about O'Dea - whether they support FF or not - says exactly the same thing.

Vegeta

well I mean our little group (actually CG had the conversation with Willy himself) met the most popular TD in the area and brought up the issue of one man one license. That TD is also in the running for Justice. I cant see this is a bad thing in any way. Yes O'Dea might not do a tap about the license system but does that mean we shouldn't have tried?

The Minister for Justice isn't god, he has a boss and if anything he tries to do goes directly against his bosses wishes then it wont get done. Willy O'Dea may well bring this to the table but could get shot down before it ever gets off the ground

maglite

if we put it to him that they might half the number of gun licences over night i'm sure they can put a spin on it

Sparks

does that mean we shouldn't have tried?

Good grief no. I'm just skeptical of the idea of us getting everything we want with ease

Vegeta

Sparks wrote:

Good grief no. I'm just skeptical of the idea of us getting everything we want with ease

At least of one thing the whole shooting community is united, nothing is fcuking easy for us.

thelurcher

The bastards are in :mad:
Doubt the party members will vote against it today.

sidneyreilly

thelurcher wrote:

The bastards are in :mad:
Doubt the party members will vote against it today.

Frying pan and fire spring to mind:(

Banjax

God how I loathe that party, I fear for the future.

E@gle.

In my opinio 1 man i licensce, less paperwork less hassel for guards and everyone is happy this way

jaycee

Be careful what you wish for ....:rolleyes:

Banjax

They gave them the department of the environment of course, where they'll have the most opportunity to try and ban hunting.

Sometimes I just detest the proportional representation system.

maglite

let them try

BryanL

one man one licence..............but no shooting allowed!!!

i think this really will bring things to a head

CJhaughey

Well Mr McGurk had the newly elected Green TD for Carlow/Kilkenny on just a moment ago, He asked "would she be against Country sports"? and she replied that she was a keen fisherwomen and a keen shot.
I detect a note of irrational panic here, with regard to the Green party in Govt, Am I alone?

Vegeta

CJhaughey wrote:

I detect a note of irrational panic here, with regard to the Green party in Govt, Am I alone?

Well on their website it is part of their manifesto to ban all blood sports. Now this doesn't mean that they will actually ban all blood sports but I'd rather be ready for it than be caught napping if they do try it.

Clare gunner

She must be the Rebel Green if she does all that.Somwhat like that labour MP who is pro fieldsports[another woman:o .Truth be said I cant see them going in for that hot potato as they are a minority party in govt.Be a different story if they were a majority govt in power.

Sparks

I don't think she's that much of a rebel CG, though if it's the same one I'm thinking of, she's one of the few who replied to the pre-election questionaire and she seemed fairly pro-shooting sports.

I think the thing here is the confusion between hunting animals with rifles for the pot or for vermin control, and the term "blood sports" (which, in my head at least, does not mean stalking deer or shooting foxes).

civdef

How about shooting pheasants?

Hendrix89

Okay I would like ask to those who support fox hunting to take a look at the gruesome pictures (thats a warning) on this link. As you see that is whats left of a poor fox after being torn to shreds alive. Would you be okay with dieing that way? It always shocks me that there are 'Irish' people who are for it. Shocks me more to think what kind of people they are....

http://www.banfoxhuntingcrueltyireland.com/cruilty.htm

civdef

Oops, off topic, one warning only.

sidneyreilly

Sparks wrote:

I think the thing here is the confusion between hunting animals with rifles for the pot or for vermin control, and the term "blood sports" (which, in my head at least, does not mean stalking deer or shooting foxes).

I agree Sparks. Thing is though, is it not the thin end of the wedge? At which stage in the pecking order does hunting with firearms be declared the same?

BryanL

hendrix when you walk down the meat isle in a super market thats all thats left of the cow,whats happens after your dead isn't really a big deal is it?
the manner of how an animal dies it what concerns most people in shooting or hunting.the expert evidence given to the english parliment by people against hunting were of the opinion that an animal shot took 3 milli seconds to die but with hounds it could take 80 milli seconds.

Sparks you are way off the mark for my money,Bloodsports to me is a spin.
Hunting,shooting and fishing were the only sports everything else were called games and passtimes!
but the anti's spun it.they are now calling hunting baiting in all their letters to the papers, a new spin.

for many years people in hunting said "oh they are only against coursing" but muzzling changed that.now their big focus is staghunting in Ireland and they are trying to split that from the pack.they win one step at a time.

I will bet you any money there will be a letter in at least one Irish national paper on the 11-12th of August against shooting and the week before the pheasant season starts.
the handgun shooters in England sat apart from everyone and were easily snipped off.
if you see no relation between the outdoor pursuit of animals and shooting you are very wrong.
Bryan

Banjax

The post by Hendrix is fairly typical of the kind of propaganda used by people like PETA, ICABS, LACS et al.

The next step is start comparing us to murderers and paedophiles. No it's not an exaggeration, it's actually a system they use.

Whatever you may feel about hunting with dogs (fox hunting, coursing etc) the fact is that if it is banned then shooting game/vermin is next. One only has to to look to the UK to see that this is the case.

This is on topic, as the new minister for the environment is a signed-up anti and therefore poses a significant risk to our sports.

Sparks

And to add to all that, I want to point out that we actually got a fair bit of help from the Greens over the last few years with parlimentary questions and the like. It's not the firearms they object to.

Vegeta

Your views dissapoint me Sparks.

I know as someone who only casually shoots targets that if the governement tried to ban all ranges I'd be standing there beside you guys

But if hunting was to get the chop you guys would just stand on the side lines and watch us burn.

Nice

fits

I used to be a little bit squeamish about hunting with hounds/dogs even though I've followed hunts on horseback (I never saw a kill mainly because there never was a kill). Since I've owned lurchers, I really dont see the big deal. The lurchers are pets, but they do occasionally catch something without my intending them to, and the death is so quick...
All of my doubts are gone.

The blood sports activists are so off the mark about real cruelty in my opinion. I wish they'd target intensive farming and overbreeding of dogs/puppy farms, also things like the use of snares. Thats real, prolonged cruelty. The foxes have a great time!
Anyway, Mary White is from my home constituency. Shes a hard working and genuine politician, but if she, or the Greens touch hunting, she wont be reelected in Carlow Kilkenny, thats for sure.... and I think (or hope anyway) they're wise enough to leave it alone.