Who won the debate on RTE

zuutroy

So...try to leave your political partisan at the door and give an honest answer!

CK.1

Draw

zuutroy

How do I add a poll again?

super_furry

I'm tempted to say that they both lost, but Enda Kenny had the slight edge in a horribly dull affair. It wouldn't inspire me to vote for either of them.

cm2000

ahern

danindublin

Enda was unbelievably bad!!!! :eek:

My mind is made up!

Bring Bertie Back!!!!

yomchi

I thought Kenny was good. Didn't get as hyper as Bertie and had all his facts laid out well. Fair play to Miriam for going at Berties finances.

is_that_so

CK.1 wrote:

Draw

Ditto , so Kenny benefits more, seeing as FG are riding high in the polls.

Marshy

Bertie. Enda was very poor I thought. Kept on repeating same meaningless statements and party mantras. Ahern was well prepared and got one over him I think.

radioman

Bertie shaded it. Had plenty of clever retorts to Enda's 'contract'. No killer punches from either side though.

djfattony2000

Bertie, by a mile.

I.S.T.

Started off well but quickly got very boring.

I reckon it was a draw too.

whassupp2

Bertie won.
Enda stafted where that eejit Noonan finished, criticising the opposition left, right and centre instead of selling himself. I dont want a leader thats goin to keep blaming everything on others. keep bertie

Dcully

Bertie, by a mile

Get real,it was 50/50 imo

Ghost Train

Yeah you should add a poll

Thought Berti came across better

brianthebard

Kenny stayed calm and didn't fold under pressure. Ahern lost imo, wasn't convincing about the governments track record, refused to answer questions on transport when he was pulled up on them, and couldn't show us anything about his plans for the next government that suggested movement forward.

leninbenjamin

they were both sh*te. watered down bullplop, none of them went into any concrete detail on how they are going to provide the things they promise.

Lennoxschips

Enda came across as polite and made coherent points instead of just rambling on like Bertie, who was a bit of a bully and spent most of his time trying to set up straw man arguments.

Jonny Arson

Boring draw, no knock-out punches from either side.

Kenny started off better, won health,
Ahern improved, won economy
After that stalemate.

Ahern was louder and more forceful which some people will say we won because of that
Kenny came across more sincere and didn't resort to as much spin as Ahern, more statesmanlike

However, If it was Richard Bruton instead of Enda he would have destroyed Ahern

Satisfactory draw for Kenny, no disaster which is what matters for him

Black Sky

a draw i think, but I think Kenny will have attracted more admirers as a result of it, as he did come across as Taoiseach material, while Bertie's peformance was a tad below what he has shown he can deliver in the past.

rollie

health kenny, crime berti (which i was surprised at), transport edna, houseing berti, future plans berti....so thats 2:3 by my count

Aquos76

Bertie shaded it in my opinion.

whassupp2

Jonny Arson wrote:

However, If it was Richard Bruton instead of Enda he would have destroyed Ahern

I think i agree

chump

boring boring no score draw...

Marshy

Lennoxschips wrote:

Enda came across as polite and made coherent points instead of just rambling on like Bertie, who was a bit of a bully and spent most of his time trying to set up straw man arguments.

On the contrary, it was enda who kept on interrupting and was talking waffle for much of the debate. Bertie was calmer and made points with more substance.

fintan

Neither landed a killer blow, which is disapointing, there were a lot of things Enda could have laid the smack down with but didn't, they both played it very safe.

I feel overall Bertie won.

Enda allowed Bertie to talk over him too much
Bertie had better body language and seemed more in control of the situation than Enda.

I wasn't inspired by either of them and I have no idea why they didn't look into the camera for the closing speeches.

Kevin2006

Enda won. Bertie was rattled

cm2000

i think by dominating the debate and being more forcefull and direct bertie showed better taoiseach qualities

RazielDoomgate

enda lost the health completly.. he may have started strong as health is he strong point.. ended going round in circles..
bertie came into his own in the ecomony round.. he knew his figures and it should... while enda looked through his sheets for help.
end bertie looked much stronger confident and gets my vote

leninbenjamin

Marshy wrote:

On the contrary, it was enda who kept on interrupting and was talking waffle for much of the debate. Bertie was calmer and made points with more substance.

they both interrupted when it suited them.

segadreamcast

Ah now Marshy... I'm not sure who won it, but I do know one fact as thus:

Bertie Ahern definitely interrupted far, far more.

One statement I will say I agree with is this:

"Kenny came across more sincere and didn't resort to as much spin as Ahern, more statesmanlike"

betonit

close enough, I think Bertie may have made some believe that some FG policies are not feasible. Enda's doing himself no favours with his 'contract' spin. Really whats on the line if he doesnt deliver his contract in full. The 'I have a contract with the Irish people' thing is cringe.

Leon11

bertie (from a non-supporter)

TJJP

RTE won, convincing everyone to watch that drivel with their incessant hype. Was almost tempted to switch to TV3, but it wasn’t that bad…

Jackz

Bertie.

jhegarty

Enda.... and I really was ready to see him wiped tonight...

flogen

Win for Bertie by 3 points after 12 rounds.

A very dull match with only three punches connecting properly in my opinion, and they were all from Bertie.

Enda had a great chance to ridicule Bertie's transport plan and didn't. He should have turned the screw on the metro for 2007 and didn't and when Bertie said "no other country in Europe is currently building 2 metro lines and 7 luas extensions" he should have retorted "well that's because every other country in Europe built their metros and light rail networks long ago".

Three landed punches:
FG tax policy benefiting the top 3% most (Enda kept saying it would benefit everyone but didn't deny that it would benefit the rich most - I think he could have come back on a slip up by Bertie on PRSI but failed to pick up on it.)

FG plans to put 2000 Gardaí on the street in addition to today's figures - 800 of those will be on the streets by December no matter what so FG are only adding 1,200 to that.

FG plans for free GP care for the under 5s - Bertie making the point that it won't benefit any child born today... that doesn't mean it's a bad idea, it just means that voters with newborn children will be turned off by it where they might have supported it otherwise.

simu

Enda was more annoying.

Neither was very convincing for an undecided voter like moi!

Jonny Arson

flogen wrote:

FG plans to put 2000 Gardaí on the street in addition to today's figures - 800 of those will be on the streets by December no matter what so FG are only adding 1,200 to that.

That is Ahern spin. 2,000 extra Gardaí on top of the 800 who will come on force by the end of the year..

flogen wrote:

FG plans for free GP care for the under 5s - Bertie making the point that it won't benefit any child born today... that doesn't mean it's a bad idea, it just means that voters with newborn children will be turned off by it where they might have supported it otherwise.

Unless there are some people who expect FG/Lab to deleiver that on the first day they are elected then that wasn't a punch. Weak punch with no substance

Your Man

flogen wrote:

Win for Bertie by 3 points after 12 rounds.

A very dull match with only three punches connecting properly in my opinion, and they were all from Bertie.

Enda had a great chance to ridicule Bertie's transport plan and didn't. He should have turned the screw on the metro for 2007 and didn't and when Bertie said "no other country in Europe is currently building 2 metro lines and 7 luas extensions" he should have retorted "well that's because every other country in Europe built their metros and light rail networks long ago".

Three landed punches:
FG tax policy benefiting the top 3% most (Enda kept saying it would benefit everyone but didn't deny that it would benefit the rich most - I think he could have come back on a slip up by Bertie on PRSI but failed to pick up on it.)

FG plans to put 2000 Gardaí on the street in addition to today's figures - 800 of those will be on the streets by December no matter what so FG are only adding 1,200 to that.

FG plans for free GP care for the under 5s - Bertie making the point that it won't benefit any child born today... that doesn't mean it's a bad idea, it just means that voters with newborn children will be turned off by it where they might have supported it otherwise.

have to agree there...and add another punch for bertie- Ahern really made a joke of Fine Gaels 2300 extra hospital beds imo. Kennt didnt seem to know his figures at all

Colonel Sanders

super_furry wrote:

I'm tempted to say that they both lost, but Enda Kenny had the slight edge in a horribly dull affair. It wouldn't inspire me to vote for either of them.

my sentiments exactly

rollie

Jonny Arson wrote:

That is Ahern spin. 2,000 extra Gardaí on top of the 800 who will come on force by the end of the year..

thats not what i got, from my adding kenny wants 15,000 gards total, berti want 16,000....did i hear this wrong??

Ardent

I thought Kenny made his points clearer and came across as the more sincere, Aherns's game plan seemed to be to snipe as much as possible and try to knock Kenny off his stride.

Draw for me but Kenny more believable.

(Ahern was comical dealing with the questions put to him regarding his government's failures in health and justice - bare faced lies and fantasies regarding his party's "achievements".)

cm2000

rollie wrote:

thats not what i got, from my adding kenny wants 15,000 gards total, berti want 16,000....did i hear this wrong??

no but enda didnt want to put it like that

Agent J

Draw but if you put a gun to my head i would say kenny only because of his demeanor vs aherns.

Anyone who says either side won by a mile or anything like is both wrong and biased.

Also i wouldnt be too worried if i was either side.

Apart from die hard politcal junkies there is NO way joe pubic sat through all of that. I was struggling from falling asleep/ changing chanel or doing something else after the tribunal section(Which really shouldnt have been brought up as its been done to death)

As much as it pains me to say it, kenny came out a lot better i thought..it pains me to say it, not because im a mad fianna fail head..to be honest ive spent an enormous amount of time complaining about them over the last few years, ...but christ, kenny gives me a pain in the face..

duridian

Your Man wrote:

have to agree there...and add another punch for bertie- Ahern really made a joke of Fine Gaels 2300 extra hospital beds imo. Kennt didnt seem to know his figures at all

Now in fairness to Enda, he's probably still feeling the effects from the fumes of all that brown hair dye...
Seriously though, he really had his figures all funked up on crime as well, and Bertie stuck it to him for that.

Trotter

I'd give it to Enda.

Badabing

I think Bertie won it he knew his stuff, i dont tink kenny would have came across well at all to labour voters.

Giblet

Enda sounded like he was reading out a shopping list and Bertie was the man to tell him that he couldn't afford another bar of chocolate.

flogen

Jonny Arson wrote:

That is Ahern spin. 2,000 extra Gardaí on top of the 800 who will come on force by the end of the year..

Well why didn't Kenny say that? He kept saying they were committed to 2000 extra Gardaí on the street, but while Ahern kept saying FF would put 2000 extra on on top of the 800 already on the way, Kenny just said "we'll put 2000 more on the street".

If it was Ahern spin then Kenny sat back and let him work it.

Unless there are some people who expect FG/Lab to deleiver that on the first day they are elected then that wasn't a punch. Weak punch with no substance

Well some voters might expect them to bring in the policy in one swoop, or at least would have expected them to until tonight.

Of course it was a landed punch, though, because it made a point on a policy that FG were happy to overlook until then - like all political parties they're happy to leave some blanks and let the people make their own assumptions on policy... I mean are you telling me that when a FG candidate is doorstepping a young family with a newborn they wouldn't say "well we're going to make sure that all under 5s have free GP care"? They certainly wouldn't say "well we're going to make sure that all under 5s have free GP care, but that won't effect you because your child will be 6 by then anyway."

The same trick applies to stamp duty - I've little positive to say about the PDs but I think they're the only party promising to make their stamp duty changes immediately - the others are happy to let the voter believe that on their first day in office stamp duty would be revoked.