Can you get points on a UK license in Ireland?

24galwayguy

well the title of this post kinda asks the question already...

so anyone know the exact details of what happens here?

Thanks

Santa Claus

No agreement as yet but it's coming soon.
People on this board have enquired about getting a UK licence to avoid points before but you have to be living there (and able to prove you're living there) to exchange licences!

galah

as far as I know, they keep the points "on file" (probably stuck on a piece of paper in a drawer ;-)), and if you ever want an Irish license (again, or for the first time), you will get those point then...

24galwayguy

if they keep them on file, do they also take them off after 3 years?

regarding proof of living in the UK i imagine you need to be able to supply a UK address? that wouldn't be a problem for a lot of people in this country i guess.

thanks

Santa Claus

24galwayguy wrote:

regarding proof of living in the UK i imagine you need to be able to supply a UK address? that wouldn't be a problem for a lot of people in this country i guess.

thanks

Utility bills or bank statements in your name at that UK address may be a problem for most people.

Terrontress

Is there not going to have to be some harmonisation issue before points from another EU member state can be applied to another's?

A speeding offence in the UK will give three points, in Ireland two. Which should be applied?

If the speed limit on a standard non-motorway dual carriageway in the UK is 70mph and it is roughly 60mph in Ireland, would the UK authorities put points on you licence for doing something in Ireland which is legal in the jurisdiction in which the points are issued?

Also, would it bring into question the calibration standards of different countries measuring equipment?

I had heard that there were calls for the ROI and NI points systems to be interchangeable but that the DUP said that the ROI should be treated as the same as any other EU country and that every EU country would have to sign up.

gary the great

What about the other way around? Ive an irish licence in england, could i get points?

Also can my car (which still has irish plates but driving in England) avoid me getting points or fines from speeding cameras?

24galwayguy

gary the great wrote:

What about the other way around? Ive an irish licence in england, could i get points?

Also can my car (which still has irish plates but driving in England) avoid me getting points or fines from speeding cameras?

also a good question.

Hotblack Desiato

Terrontress wrote:

Is there not going to have to be some harmonisation issue before points from another EU member state can be applied to another's?

No.

A speeding offence in the UK will give three points, in Ireland two. Which should be applied?

Whatever you'd have got if the offence had been committed in the country which issued the licence.

If the speed limit on a standard non-motorway dual carriageway in the UK is 70mph and it is roughly 60mph in Ireland, would the UK authorities put points on you licence for doing something in Ireland which is legal in the jurisdiction in which the points are issued?

If you break the law here, once transferability of points is in effect then yes, the UK (or wherever) authorities will have to place points on your licence for an offence committed over here.
If what you did was illegal in the country you were driving in at the time, then that's what matters, whether the UK (or wherever) rules are different doesn't matter.
For example, it's illegal to drive on the left in most of Europe but it's generally the norm here
Although it is possible that transferability will only apply to an agreed list of offences, not necessarily all of the 35 or so which will carry points under Irish law.

Also, would it bring into question the calibration standards of different countries measuring equipment?

No. Why would it? What matters is the standards of the country where the offence was committed. You could try to appeal it there through their legal procedures but you'll not get anywhere if the conviction holds up under their law.

I had heard that there were calls for the ROI and NI points systems to be interchangeable but that the DUP said that the ROI should be treated as the same as any other EU country and that every EU country would have to sign up.

I don't know if it's still the case now, but until last year at least, you couldn't get points on an NI licence in Britain.

Gary ITR

I'm in the process of getting a European License at the min. I had 4 points from two years ago and last week I got stopped where the m7 ends while doing 115 in the 100 zone so now I have 6

rocky

I just received notification of 2 points on my east-european licence. I'm in Ireland for a good few years now, so probably they will accumulate here, although they won't count back home.

drdre

rocky wrote:

I just received notification of 2 points on my east-european licence. I'm in Ireland for a good few years now, so probably they will accumulate here, although they won't count back home.

Do you not have an irish licence even though you are here for a few years? Is that possible to keep a different licence even though you live here

rocky

drdre wrote:

Do you not have an irish licence even though you are here for a few years? Is that possible to keep a different licence even though you live here

of course it's possible, the EU licences are valid in Ireland

John R

gary the great wrote:

What about the other way around? Ive an irish licence in england, could i get points?

No.

Also can my car (which still has irish plates but driving in England) avoid me getting points or fines from speeding cameras?[/QUOTE]

Yes, they wouldn't have access to the registration details to apply points/fines to a driver.

However if you are resident in the UK then legally you must re-register the car.

If you accumalate offences on your Irish car it is possible that the plate number may be entered into the police computer system and if one of the ANPR cameras reads it or a copper looks you up they could arrest you on the spot.

If you are stopped for speeding or any other offence by the UK police the only option they have for a non-resident is to let you off or arrest you.

If you are found out to be illegally driving an IE regd car while resident in the UK you will be in big fine country, possibly face a ban for driving untaxed/un-insured and they may well crush your car.

Unlike the Gardai many UK forces (particularly traffic officers) will be actually put in the time and effort to apply the law and you can easily find yourself sitting in a police cell for a while until a magistrate can be found to waggle a finger in your direction and issue a fine.


In general giving the finger to the law works much better here than in the UK, hence why so many of our new friends from the eastern fringe of the EU get away without re-registering their cars or paying irish tax, insurance and are easily able to skip paying out on insurance claims.

pow wow

Santa Claus wrote:

Utility bills or bank statements in your name at that UK address may be a problem for most people.

You don't have to provide proof of address to the DVLA, just proof of identification like a passport.

michaelanthony

They put points on polish licenses.

Victor

gary the great wrote:

What about the other way around? Ive an irish licence in england, could i get points?

Whatever about England, up North they will create a shadow licence, using you Irish licence number. Accumulate enough points and they won't want you on the road.

testicle

michaelanthony wrote:

They put points on polish licenses.

No they don't. Well if "They" are the Polish authorities, then yes they do!

Terrontress

Victor wrote:

Whatever about England, up North they will create a shadow licence, using you Irish licence number. Accumulate enough points and they won't want you on the road.

I don't think that's true.

There was someone on here previously who was caught speeding around Banbridge. Because the PSNI knew they could not endorse his license, they treated it as a criminal offence. Arrested him, fingerprints, bailed to appear in court.

Edit:

Have found post.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=52211001

drdre

Terrontress wrote:

I don't think that's true.

There was someone on here previously who was caught speeding around Banbridge. Because the PSNI knew they could not endorse his license, they treated it as a criminal offence. Arrested him, fingerprints, bailed to appear in court.

Edit:

Have found post.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=52211001

Wow that was harse.The guy got arrested for speeding :eek:

Terrontress

drdre wrote:

Wow that was harse.The guy got arrested for speeding :eek:

I think that once it goes beyond a certain speed, you have to be arrested and taken to court. I think the magic number is once you are 21mph over any speed limit then it becomes a criminal matter.

I think the guy was unlucky because on the A1 in the North, it just seems to be vans and tripod speed cameras with fines sent out later. They are unable to query the numberplate to know where to send fines / points too.

It would be a legal nightmare to apply the points across the EU.

MrPudding

ellscurr wrote:

You don't have to provide proof of address to the DVLA, just proof of identification like a passport.

Yes you do.

MrP

gibo_ie

AFIK the Gardai can legally detain non-ROI drivers and impound their car until fines are paid if they believe that the driver intends not to pay. E.G. Northern drivers!

Terrontress

Back when I used to have an NI numberplate, I got done for going through a light as it was changing to red on a Friday evening somewhere around where the Pavillions is now.

I said to the Garda that I was unrepentant because the road out to Belfast was shocking in those days and it had taken me an hour to travel five miles. Also, traffic light controlled roundabouts are a nonsense, and I only went through as the light was changing. It was not unreasonable behaviour.

He threatened to arrest me for dangerous driving and put me in a cell for the weekend with heroin addicts and up in front of a judge on the Monday morning unless I told him I was sorry and had learnt my lesson which, of course, I did.

So I got a ticket with a fine for £50 and he said that while they would not come for me into the North if I didn't pay it, the car would be impounded if I was ever caught again and I would be locked in the cells for the night.

I thought he was being a bit harsh.

craichoe

No, Licenses issued outside the state cannot be endorsed or have points put on them, they are not issued by the state and can only be cancelled by the DLVA in swansea (i.e. they won't renew it)

The gardai can sieze your car for whatever reason they like, if your tax is out for example, they can sieze it, if they believe you are driving with no insurance they can sieze it. If they believe its not fit for road usage, yep, you guessed it, they can sieze it.

Hotblack Desiato

Terrontress wrote:

I thought he was being a bit harsh.

You gotta love this forum. Half of the people are giving out that the Gardai aren't enforcing the rules, the other half are giving out when they are!

drdre

ninja900 wrote:

You gotta love this forum. Half of the people are giving out that the Gardai aren't enforcing the rules, the other half are giving out when they are!

But thats life.Its kind of fun

Terrontress

ninja900 wrote:

You gotta love this forum. Half of the people are giving out that the Gardai aren't enforcing the rules, the other half are giving out when they are!

I can understand having been issued the fine. I broke a traffic law and I broke it on purpose because I was frustrated by the awful traffic.

But it is the whole "I'll have you in a cell for the weekend. And the cells down here aren't like the ones in the North. There's heroin addicts down here" and "I don't know where you're from or how you're taught to drive but down here that's called dangerous driving and it's a criminal offence".

I didn't want to push it at the time but I imagine his sergeant would have had something to say to him if he had arrested and banged up someone for going through a light as it changes.

blorg

Terrontress wrote:

Back when I used to have an NI numberplate, I got done for going through a light as it was changing to red on a Friday evening somewhere around where the Pavillions is now.

I said to the Garda that I was unrepentant because the road out to Belfast was shocking in those days and it had taken me an hour to travel five miles. Also, traffic light controlled roundabouts are a nonsense, and I only went through as the light was changing. It was not unreasonable behaviour.

He threatened to arrest me for dangerous driving and put me in a cell for the weekend with heroin addicts and up in front of a judge on the Monday morning unless I told him I was sorry and had learnt my lesson which, of course, I did.

I thought he was being a bit harsh.

"I can break traffic laws because I'm frustrated by congestion and sure the lights shouldn't be there on a roundabout in the first place so I should be allowed to break them?" And then saying all this to the garda that pulls you over for it? And (probably) insinuating that you can get away with it all because of your NI plates?

I'm not 100% sure here, but I am going to have to presume this is a joke?

EDIT: Do you _maybe_ think he took this attitude towards you because of yours?

Terrontress

Well, I obviously wasn't so harsh to his face. He pulled me over and asked what colour the light was. I replied that I presumed it must have been red, given that I was being stopped.

Then he asked why I had gone through it and I tried to explain my frustration of being stuck going out the N1 and also said that I considered what I did to be safe in terms of a signal-free roundabout but that I probably was pushing my luck. I thought it would be better than pretending not to have noticed and I would have said the same to a Northern police officer.

I certainly didn't think that he woudl threaten to throw me in a cell, trying to scare me about junkies. If that is the way he treats visitors to the country then he is a disgrace to his profession.

Victor

Terrontress wrote:

Victor wrote:

Whatever about England, up North they will create a shadow licence, using you Irish licence number. Accumulate enough points and they won't want you on the road.

I don't think that's true.

Well a certain PSNI Chief Superintendent with responsibility for rural traffic policing says otherwise.

Terrontress

Victor wrote:

Well a certain PSNI Chief Superintendent with responsibility for rural traffic policing says otherwise.

Who is this Chief Superintendent? I thought the top man in traffic up there is a Chief Inspector Hogg. He is often on the BBC Northern Ireland news.

And how will they store this information?

Based on your numberplate / address / driver number/ name / DOB?

It would be difficult to do so for the address of another jurisdiction. It may be another matter for people from ROI with an ROI license living in the UK. But not with addresses in the Republic.

The whole reason behind penalty points is to act as a deterrent. That is why they are so well publicised. Is it not strange to implement a system which would require large investment, monitoring and updating and then to keep completely quiet about it?

TommyK

24galwayguy wrote:

if they keep them on file, do they also take them off after 3 years?

Nope, if you get points on a foreign licence, and subsequently convert it to (or apply for) an Irish licence, the points will be applied from the date that Irish licence becomes valid.

If you accumulate enough points to be disqualified, then you will be allowed to convert your foreign licence (or apply for an Irish licence) but it won't be supplied to you until after the period of disqualification has expired.

Incidentally, there are circumstances where citizens of other E.U. states who are living here can be disqualified from driving here because of actions in that state, and vice-versa. (e.g. Section 9 of RTA 2002).

Also, the Gardai can ask the Courts to issue a special disqualification order for ANYONE in the State if they suspect they may be incompetent to drive any class of vehicle. This will result a disqualification that won't be lifted until they undergo a driving test in whatever category is concerned. (See Section 28 of RTA 1961).

Thus, if you are a foreign driving licence holder who accumulated enough penalty points to be disqualified, and were then subject to a special disqualification order (on whatever the basis for that might be), unless successfully appealed, you would likely have to apply for a provisional licence (not the same thing as a driving licence, btw), apply for an Irish driving test, and, if you pass it, be disqualified for a further 6 months under Section 3 of the RTA 2002... and it would serve you bloody right too . Also, anyone attracting that kind of attention, shouldn't expect the usual non-enforcement of the terms applying to provisional licences either.

Tommy.

quarryman

what about:

I have accumlated 4 points on my provisional irish licence (I passed my test but haven't applied for my full licence yet and my provisional has expired).

When are the points applied?

Hotblack Desiato

I would guess that if your licence (provisional or full) was expired, then the three-year validity of the points would stop counting down, until you renew your licence again. (In effect they'd be frozen during your period with no licence.)

If you're not driving at the moment, if you renew your prov. licence anyway, your points could be gone by the time you actually start driving again!

In all seriousness though the number of points required for a ban should be lower on a provisional licence, as in the UK. Provisional licence holders are, after all, supposed to be learners and supposed to be driving more cautiously as a result! If one has no respect for the rules of the road when starting out driving it's not a good start, and doesn't exactly help with passing the test either.

Ideally everyone would be retested at least every five years, but that's another story.