$2/4 Full House

Captain Tom

Ive been playing pretty LAG opening lots of pots and have shown down 78o after raising utg+1 flopping 2 pair and getting called down by tptk.villian is semi-agro scandi.has been reasonably aggressive in position but has been quiet for the last 3 or 4 rounds.if i had to guess id say he was a loser at 2/4.

also about 10 hands prior to this i made a pretty thin call down on a QJ565 board with 67 vs a busted straight draw and villian said something like "lol" in the chat box.

Villian has ~275,i cover.

I raise to 13 on the button with TT,villian makes it 41,i call.

Flop: QQ6.Villian bets 65,i call.(pot 216)

Turn: 3.check,check.

River: Q.Villian shoves for 170.

was really confused especially given history.kinda thought the 67 calldown would make it less likely he's bluffing but more likely that he v/bets some worse hands.fwiw villian shoved river pretty fast.thoughts on all streets appreciated.

mdwexford

i call , your check on the turn gave him a chance to think he can win the pot with a bluff on the river, he surely bets the turn for value with a hand that beats you.

i like the way you played it the whole way

BrokenArrows

What position is Villian in. Im guessing SB or BB or did he limp raise you

id say your behind. JJ,KK and AA all push here if not a weak Q

Ste05

I call the River, I think you'll see bluffs enough to make it profitable.

I think you played it well, and I'd probably do the exact same thing. It's slightly worrying that he knows we can call down pretty light, but most people aren't able to adapt well enough to exploit this correctly, He could easily have AA or KK, JJ or a Q (unlikely with the quick action IMO) but equally he could have 99- and AK, AJ, etc.

Has he been 3-betting you alot, it this is the first time he's done so I might fold but more than likely I'd still call. He obviously thinks you're a fish with his LOL comment and very loosey goosey and could easily be value shoving a worse pair, very tricky spot.

Captain Tom

BrokenArrows wrote:

What position is Villian in. Im guessing SB or BB or did he limp raise you

villian was in the sb.

phantom_lord

I think the river's a call.

has he been 3betting much? you been blind stealing?

Mellor

It really looks like he has AA or KK,
I's say fold,
but if AK is in his range its could be a +EV call. you only beat AK, 16 of them, and 23 hands that beat you, about 40%, the pot odds on offer require 30% for +EV

So I think its a fold, it looks like a PP to me
but if AK is in the villians range here call I dont think it is, but you were playing with him

Captain Tom

phantom_lord wrote:

has he been 3betting much? you been blind stealing?

he's 3 bet me once IIRC and 3 bet a mp raiser once in maybe 25-30 minutes at the table.he's been playing fairly snug for the last few rounds but i have been raising in the c/o and button very regularly and was unsurprised to get played back at.btw the 67 calldown wasnt actually against villian.

Captain Tom

Mellor wrote:

but if AK is in the villians range here call I dont think it is, but you were playing with him

if you're asking if AK is in his range p/f,of course it is.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Don't think you would be wrong to either fold or call here tbh. Just depends on the mood you are in. The check on the turn after you called his bet seems to indicate he is scared of the Q.

Gut instinct says he has JJ or KK, but as has been said, there is enough lower pair shoving, or even AK shoving, here that you would at least break even over time by calling here.

The 216 in the pot sure looks tempting though...

Mellor

Captain Tom wrote:

if you're asking if AK is in his range p/f,of course it is.

Obviously its in his pf range, but as a hand plays out you often have to change a players range due to the way he played it, would he play AK like that on all streets, if yes then call, its +EV

Goodluck2me

im pretty sure most villains will play AA/KK/JJ the exact same way. youve played the hand well until now too. Call is not cut in stone here obv, im nto sure whats best line.

bops

i think you played it perfectly - if you loose so be it - you're going to get it all in the middle anyway, the check on the turn just gives him the rope to hang himself

BrokenArrows

AK is without a doubt in his range preflop but the way the hand played out id say your beat here more times than not to make it -ev

phantom_lord

just on a side note, how much of his range do u think he shoves for value, obv jj+, what about 99/1010? 88?

BrokenArrows

phantom_lord wrote:

just on a side note, how much of his range do u think he shoves for value, obv jj+, what about 99/1010? 88?

I dont think he ever reraises oop in the SB with 88/99 here. TT is possible but unlikely and would be read dependent.

phantom_lord

BrokenArrows wrote:

I dont think he ever reraises oop in the SB with 88/99 here. TT is possible but unlikely and would be read dependent.

I dunno, I may be wrong, but I think 3betting pairs out of the blinds vs a active button raiser is better than calling with them.

BrokenArrows

phantom_lord wrote:

I dunno, I may be wrong, but I think 3betting pairs out of the blinds vs a active button raiser is better than calling with them.

Possibly but the OP says that the villian has been reasonably aggressive when in position. Hes playing aggressive now OOP which narrows his range

Captain Tom

phantom_lord wrote:

I dunno, I may be wrong, but I think 3betting pairs out of the blinds vs a active button raiser is better than calling with them.

yeah i agree.it's very possible 88/99 are in his p/f 3-betting range.as regards what he would v/shove river with,TT+ for sure,possibly 99,very doubtful anything else.some people automatically consider you a lagtard when u open a lot of pots p/f so i tend to get v/bet lightly on occasion.

DopeyLocks

i call OR because of turn play but there u go.

In retrospect the perfect play is to make it 130 OF, AK/88/99 must fold now and if he calls u can give up on the turn or river with a clear conscience.

Dopey

phantom_lord

DopeyLocks wrote:

In retrospect the perfect play is to make it 130 OF, AK/88/99 must fold now and if he calls u can give up on the turn or river with a clear conscience.

all the hands that we beat??

and what happens when he min-raise shoves, are u gonna fold?

Ste05

DopeyLocks wrote:

In retrospect the perfect play is to make it 130 OF, AK/88/99 must fold now and if he calls u can give up on the turn or river with a clear conscience.

You realise this is bad? We want those hands to put all their money into the pot, not to make them fold. The longer those hands stay in his potential range the better for us, not vice versa.

DopeyLocks

phantom_lord wrote:

all the hands that we beat??

and what happens when he min-raise shoves, are u gonna fold?

Im playing this hand in fear, this guy has re raise pf.

Dopey

phantom_lord

what does that mean?

by making it 130 pf, u fold out worse hands and pretty much price yourself into calling a shove, and quite likely getting it all-in with the worst of it. it's really bad.

Ste05

DopeyLocks wrote:

Im playing this hand in fear, this guy has re raise pf.

Would you not prefer to fold instead of raising then??

DopeyLocks

phantom_lord wrote:

what does that mean?

by making it 130 pf, u fold out worse hands and pretty much price yourself into calling a shove, and quite likely getting it all-in with the worst of it. it's really bad.

i suggest making it 130 on the flop = OF not PF

Dopey

phantom_lord

no.

sikes

i fold the river. I cant see what we are beating here given the information. We have been seen to call down light and usually a quick shove on the river is a value bet from bad players.

ianmc38

probably fold for me.

opr

This is a fold for me here. Coupled with the fact that you have called him down light before and that i don't really see what shoves here that we beat i have to give it up.

Opr

Mr.Plough

edited because i'm a retard at reading hand descriptions

dougee19

me think its tough, odds are he has pockets, you just have to judge whether he would re-raise with lower than 10's, i would probably call to be honest but very reluctantly, and the wrong choice i would think

i would think the right move is to fold, i just cant make the right move...
i mean, you have a house, almost the nuts



would choose fold if live game, online i would call, not enough time....
honest answer i think anyway

hotspur

Calling is only +EV on your birthday, Christmas, and Mad Scandie Bluff Day (usually Thurs-Sun).

Captain Tom

hotspur wrote:

Calling is only +EV on your birthday, Christmas, and Mad Scandie Bluff Day (usually Thurs-Sun).

you're very wrong,every day is mad scandie bluff day:).

BrokenArrows

Captain Tom wrote:

you're very wrong,every day is mad scandie bluff day:).

right so alot of discussion here. What was he holding?

pok3rplaya

AA, KK, JJ = 18 combos
AK = 16 combos

he has to be bluffing his AK's 100% of the time to make this a call. I find it unlikely that he's RR 99/88 too.

I fold.

Captain Tom

pok3rplaya wrote:

AA, KK, JJ = 18 combos
AK = 16 combos

he has to be bluffing his AK's 100% of the time to make this a call. I find it unlikely that he's RR 99/88 too.

I fold.

is his range really that small?i woulda though with 88/99 a tag would rather 3-bet p/f rather than play the hand oop vs an aggressive player.please correct me if im wrong.

pok3rplaya

I dunno maybe I'm underestimating this guy. I'm just assuming that he's not good enough to have an aggressive 3betting range.

Anyways, say we do include AJ,99 that makes it 18 combos to 38 combos and he has to be bluffing his AK/AJ 50% of the time to make it a call (which I think id reasonable). So there you go, now you call his range. I'd err on caution though.

DeadParrot

anyone not factor him for a 6?
trying a 'I'm better than you' resteal from the sb preflop (esp given the LOL from earlier)
and then betting the flop cause it hit him
slowing down on the turn
betting the river as it gives him the house

Personally I'm calling

phantom_lord

Mr.Plough wrote:

4betting pf is spew methinks



edit: replied to page one of the topic

im 50/50 as to the river decision. Read dependant.

Does anyone like betting the turn when its checked to you?#

if he shoves the turn its a fold, calls you can fold to a river shove and if checked on the river you can check behind.

would make your decision easier

the pot is 200+ on the turn, he's got 170 left.

fuzzbox

Your hand looks really transparent, so I fold.

You have precisely what you are representing, and he shoves anyway.

Mr.Plough

oh ok, edited

Mr.Plough

double post

pok3rplaya

fuzzbox wrote:

Your hand looks really transparent, so I fold.

You have precisely what you are representing, and he shoves anyway.

yeah but he's a skandinavian.

fuzzbox

pok3rplaya wrote:

yeah but he's a skandinavian.

Oh, right, in that case, get his sisters number.

pok3rplaya

I dunno, they stay pretty young looking up there, I think it's a mistake not to go for his mother too. OP what was your read on the villans age?

Tar.Aldarion

Call.
You win. >_>

jimmii

Those Scandie players are sharp enough to know that you might be checking the turn to let them hang themselves on the river so I doubt he is doing this with much that TT beats. Is there any chance he is on tilt? If he's playing other tables has he just lost a big pot or anything like that? Have you seen him make big river bluffs before? I think you need a pretty good read of the player to be making this call.

Captain Tom

anyways i folded and he of course showed AJo.i think the hand coulda been solved by basic mathematics really.full house+scandinavian=$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Tar.Aldarion

I suppose if you really thought you were beat you should fold, but tbh, if I had 1010 I would call after the way he played it.

phantom_lord

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

I suppose if you really thought you were beat you should fold, but tbh, if I had 1010 I would call after the way he played it.

he'd probably play any hand that beats 1010 the same.