Live poker bankroll management

Slash/ED

How do people who play alot of live cash games manager their bankroll?

A couple of months ago I decided to keep my poker money completley seperate from my real money. I opened a second bank account and I don't even spend poker winnings on the taxi ride home anymore, it's all 100% for the bankroll. Now I'd built it up to around 1,000 but had to spend most of it very grugingly on an upcoming trip to America (I know...), so it was fairly depleted, anyway, Im back on a little over 1,000 now. Cash game wise, I feel this limits me only to the Jackpot 1/1 game on a monday.

I know how lucrative the 1/2 games are around town, and it's very frustrating to only get to play cash games for 3 hours a week. Also, alot of my mates who don't really maintain a bankroll at all seems to be fairly successfully sitting down at the 1/2 tables as the standard is, generally, fairly awful and they're simply all better players than the average. However, I dont want to sit down in the pl 1/2 games until my roll is above 2,000.

Is this simply stupid? Do I have more than enough now to sit down if Im confident Im better than the average player at the 1/2 tables? I've heard the standard is, if anything, worse than the 1/1 game in a bizzare way (As it seems to attract the fish degenerate gamblers more) and Ive only recorded one loseing session playing 1/1 so over the last couple of months so I know I could, long term, profit very nicely from it. Despite that, is it still absolutley essential to have at least 10 buy ins as a bankroll before I sit down? Should I have more even? My current plan is to grind it out to 2,000, start playing 1/2 until i'm at 4,000, then every profit I make I split 50/50 between the bankroll and real money, everything going exclusively to the bankroll before then. It's a long and slow process, but is it the only way to go about it? How much stock do people here take in maintaining a roll like that?

Sorry for the long meandering post. Basically it's just another bankroll, discuss post...Anyway any feedback would be appreciated on just when to move up levels (I'm playing exclusively live here keep in mind) and the like.

Marq

I'll answer this in detail later, but for now just a quick word to say that you should take your taxi home out of your bankroll and mark it down accordingly as expenses in your records whether you win or lose.
It's an associated cost and therefore part of the rake and your profit/loss.

jimmii

If you are going to stick to good bankroll management then 1k isn't strictly enough for 1/2. If you are doing well at the 1/1 then stick with it until you can afford to lose a couple of 1/2 buy-ins and not have to worry about it at all. For cash games i've stuck to 5% of bank roll for a buy-in with the occassional bit of shot taking every now and then. If you really want to move up build it up to 2k then have a couple of sessions at 1/2 and see what happens if you lose them you can go back to 1/1 if you win it could take you near to 4k anyway.

bops

if i was you i'd take a chance!

go play in one of the 1/2 games you've wanted to play in

bring 2 x 200 of your roll
play your normal game - don't play scared money

with the first 200 - try and build it up to 600 - then leave with double what you went in with

if you loose your 1st buyin, try and get back to 400 with your second - the leave with what you started with and try another day

if you loose you 2nd buyin - go back to the 1/1 game and build again

if you get the 800 you can confidently go back the next time with 2 "free" buyins and maybe 1 from your roll

just remember, if you hit your target or loose the 2 buyins - go home!! it's one big long game and will still be there tomorrow

good luck

...just a note of caution - the gamblers and fish are the ones likely to make it profitable for you in the long run, but they are the same one's that are most likely to take your roll in the short term...if you get me

phantom_lord

If you plan on having a dedicated bankroll totally seperate to the rest of your money/income then you need at least 5/6k to play 1/2 comfortably.


that said, I started playing 1/2 live off a borrowed 400yoyos

IHAVEACAT

i think your asking for troble laying 1-2 with a roll of 1k. as jimmi said why not stick to 1/1 if your a consistent winner and beat the levels. imo u defo should not step up to 1-2 with a roll off less than 3.5-4k. if your buying in for 200 in the 1-2 game then even with a roll of 2k ur playing with 10%of your roll on the table. i dont think thats too good. ive went on ugly runs at 1-2 and 2-4 that ive lost 5-6+buy ins rarely making a major error. i think ur mind is in get rich quick mode. thats not good. if u havnt already read pok3rplayas guide to building a roll.

IHAVEACAT

bops wrote:

if i was you i'd take a chance!

go play in one of the 1/2 games you've wanted to play in

bring 2 x 200 of your roll
play your normal game - don't play scared money

with the first 200 - try and build it up to 600 - then leave with double what you went in with

if you loose your 1st buyin, try and get back to 400 with your second - the leave with what you started with and try another day

if you loose you 2nd buyin - go back to the 1/1 game and build again

if you get the 800 you can confidently go back the next time with 2 "free" buyins and maybe 1 from your roll

just remember, if you hit your target or loose the 2 buyins - go home!! it's one big long game and will still be there tomorrow

good luck

...just a note of caution - the gamblers and fish are the ones likely to make it profitable for you in the long run, but they are the same one's that are most likely to take your roll in the short term...if you get me

i dont think this is good advice. i think this is bad advice

IHAVEACAT

phantom_lord wrote:

If you plan on having a dedicated bankroll totally seperate to the rest of your money/income then you need at least 5/6k to play 1/2 comfortably.


that said, I started playing 1/2 live off a borrowed 400yoyos

the joys of drogheda taxi drivers with deep pockets

bops

phantom_lord wrote:

If you plan on having a dedicated bankroll totally seperate to the rest of your money/income then you need at least 5/6k to play 1/2 comfortably.


that said, I started playing 1/2 live off a borrowed 400yoyos

true! but like you and me most people got the roll required by taking chances with your (whole) BR....or else went broke!

valor

play online

bops

IHAVEACAT wrote:

i dont think this is good advice. i think this is bad advice

please note:

bops wrote:

if i was you i'd take a chance!

why btw??

phantom_lord

IHAVEACAT wrote:

the joys of drogheda taxi drivers with deep pockets

fitz actually.

bops wrote:

true! but like you and me most people got the roll required by taking chances with your (whole) BR....or else went broke!

but that's not very advisable tho...

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

IHAVEACAT

bops wrote:

please note:




why btw??

because your effectively saying that he should gamble his whole roll on a short run of cards and if he gets colddecked on a table of donks then hes fcuked. just 1 bad swing and his rolls gone=fcuked. i would imagine that if 10 people of equal skill tried this then 1 would succeed where as if he just bult his roll up hed have a much better chance of playing in the 1-2 game and winning over the long run.

bops

Slash/ED wrote:

(I'm playing exclusively live here keep in mind)

i don't believe he has any interest in playing online?

bops

IHAVEACAT wrote:

because your effectively saying that he should gamble his whole roll on a short run of cards and if he gets colddecked on a table of donks then hes fcuked. just 1 bad swing and his rolls gone=fcuked. i would imagine that if 10 people of equal skill tried this then 1 would succeed where as if he just bult his roll up hed have a much better chance of playing in the 1-2 game and winning over the long run.

nope just 40% of his BR!! - hence the take a chance bit

the only other option as far as i can see is to stay playing 1/1 until you have 4k for example - and the truth is he hasn't even got the roll required for 1/1

some clown once said:
"you will never make any money in poker without taking the odd chance"
i tend to agree

phantom_lord

almost any non retarded tag could turn a profit playing 1/2 live, the same couldn't be said for online. most live players would probably be crushed online.

LuckyLloyd

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IHAVEACAT

bops wrote:

i don't believe he has any interest in playing online?

well then he said be a nut and gamble is whole roll like you said. or maybe he should just stick in on red no actually black wait actually even. if he doesnt play online with a roll of this size his edge over a 1/2 game,if any, will be made redundant as his roll cant take swings. you telling him he should bring 2 buy ins of 200 and if he loses 1 try and get back 2 400 is crazeeee. i think u know your giving him bad advice

bops

actually. come to think of it, i dunno anywhere where i can play 1/1 (besides the jackpot) - therefore most people, no matter what size of a roll they have, generally have to play 1/2 live??

it's not as if he's gonna find a live 10c/20c game and start building - as far as im concerned the bottom of the ladder is 1/2, and most good players started building their roll from a couple of hundred quid - you guys should take your online hats off for a minute

NickyOD

I prefer live but I know that its more profitable to play online. A good players edge is exponentially larger in a live game though. If I could 500 hands an hour live I would never play online.

IHAVEACAT

bops wrote:

nope just 40% of his BR!! - hence the take a chance bit

the only other option as far as i can see is to stay playing 1/1 until you have 4k for example - and the truth is he hasn't even got the roll required for 1/1

some clown once said:
"you will never make any money in poker without taking the odd chance"
i tend to agree

i think taking a chance and taking a complete crapshoot with ur roll are a tad differnt. he hasnt got the roll required for any live game but if he is playing 1-1 and winning he should grind it out. the quick fix wont work in this spot. i think any 1 who makes a living from playing cards will tell u that beating the levels is the best way to go. too many people have tried to jump their way up levels and destroyed their roll. if u wanna gamble go to the bookies. i like to have an edge and even though i know my edge can sometimes be counterfeited by "bad luck" i like to know i am rolled enuf to see through it

bops

IHAVEACAT wrote:

well then he said be a nut and gamble is whole roll like you said. or maybe he should just stick in on red no actually black wait actually even. if he doesnt play online with a roll of this size his edge over a 1/2 game,if any, will be made redundant as his roll cant take swings. you telling him he should bring 2 buy ins of 200 and if he loses 1 try and get back 2 400 is crazeeee. i think u know your giving him bad advice

????

whole BR does not = 40%
he's not even rolled for 1/1

maybe he should put it in the post office for 17 years until he has the roll required??

actually i fancy black...gimme a minute!

IHAVEACAT

bops wrote:

????

whole BR does not = 40%
he's not even rolled for 1/1

maybe he should put it in the post office for 17 years until he has the roll required??

actually i fancy black...gimme a minute!

i dunno watever. i get bored to easy. gamble gamble do it. let me know what happens either way. put it all on dundalk to sign ronaldo next yr. ud prob have the same chance of any roi

DITTag

phantom_lord wrote:

almost any non retarded tag could turn a profit playing 1/2 live:confused

phantom_lord

what? the standard's so bad live anyone that has a game that's even remotely solid can make money.

redzerdrog

I have to say i agree with Bops (cant believe i said that;) ) i would take the shot at 1/2 the standard live (drogheda) is worse than 5c/10c online.

IHAVEACAT

redzerdrog wrote:

I have to say i agree with Bops (cant believe i said that;) ) i would take the shot at 1/2 the standard live (drogheda) is worse than 5c/10c online.

the 1-2 game is pretty easy in drogheda but if he only has a 1000 roll a bad run of cards or marginal situations then he could be cleaned out pretty easy

Rb

DITTag wrote:

phantom_lord wrote:

almost any non retarded tag could turn a profit playing 1/2 live:confused

AFAIK it was a reference to tight aggressive, not you.

IMO, OP should stick the cash online and play lower stakes until hes built a sufficient roll to cope with the swings involved in the live cash games here

cooker3

This came last Thursday after I won the student tournament. Ross was shocked that I didn't sit in for the cash games but my view was I wasn't rolled for it properly and I can really could use the money in the states so I decided not to sit in.
Just play low stakes online and build from there would be best imo.

charlesanto

Bobs advice sits best with me ....
The €400 might be a bit ott, 300 would do (2x150)... lose and you still have 700 to go back to your 1/1 game.

Word of caution though... if you are beating the 1/1 game by LAGin against nitty students this won't work against regular 1/2ers in Dublin, they're mostly LAGtastic !

phantom_lord

cooker3 wrote:

This came last Thursday after I won the student tournament. Ross was shocked that I didn't sit in for the cash games but my view was I wasn't rolled for it properly and I can really could use the money in the states so I decided not to sit in.
Just play low stakes online and build from there would be best imo.

nit!

Mr.Plough

stick with 1/1

Marq

To consider myself adequately bankrolled for live 1/2 in dublin I'd need 10k. The reason for such a large amount isn't that the game is particularly tough, but because these days the game is playing much bigger than an average 1/2 game. Frequently you will get tables with 3 or 4 stacks over a grand, and with blind raises and straddles the game plays a lot bigger. I buy in for between 200 and 500 when I play live cash, usually tending towards the higher end. 20 buy-ins of 500 is 10k, so that seems pretty reasonable to me.

Having said that, this is what I would consider optimal to play the game very regularly. If you're just taking shots I think 2k is more than enough to get in there and nit up the game for a while on relatively short buy-ins.

robinlacey

has anyone experienced a live 1/2 game downswing of 10 buyins?

i remember when the legislation came in on HSNL a lot of the regulars were asking the live players what sort of rolls they kept for playing live,and they were saying 12-20 buyins,which surprised me.of course maybe a buyin meant 200+ big blinds.

to the OP-a lot of this depends on what happens if you lose the grand you have.if you have a job and can afford to take shots every so often,then go for it,i don't think you need 5k or whatever.you may as well wait till you get to 2k though,since you're only two good sessions away from it anyway.

phantom_lord

I had a -2400 week in the fitz once when I played there regularly. That said I wasn't top of my game at the time, and was running extremely bad. Plus I wasn't exactly great back then anyway.

1/2 live in dublin is pretty high varience, it's easy to have 3-5+ buyin sessions since the game plays so big.

bottom feeder

I suck at BankRoll management, as a result of bad management i have decided to discipline myself around same, however every time i walk past the roulette / blackjack tables i tend to clam up and white knuckle it while my body goes into withdrawals.......:eek:

[p.s. I usually find a couple my mum’s valium helps ease the pain :cool: ]

Sirtoyou

i agree with Marq.
i play the live 1-2 nl cash game in macau and it often plays more like a 5-10 online game.
most players i know arent adequitly bankrolled for it so most are shot taking
i also agree that you could take a shot with 2/3 150 buy ins and trust your good play,but as said its the numpties that bust you short term.

baker1

Marq wrote:

To consider myself adequately bankrolled for live 1/2 in dublin I'd need 10k. The reason for such a large amount isn't that the game is particularly tough, but because these days the game is playing much bigger than an average 1/2 game.

I think that 15-20k is an adequate bankroll for playing 1/2 plhe in Dublin for a living. As you say the games are playing much higher now than ever before.

Marq

If you're able to beat the game I doubt you'd need much more than a 10k bankroll to play for a living.
For anyone that's not playing for a living 2k-5k should be more than enough depending on skill level and playing style.

baker1

Bankrolls are very dependant on the stlye of players using them. A rock is going to need less of a roll than a super agro player. However in my opinion the optimual strategy for winning in these live games is far from rock. I therefore believe that the required bankroll for the optimual winning strategy is 15-20k

bops

I don't think the OP is on about playing for a living here - he is just trying to use a bit of common sense in relation to his BR.

I am fairly sure that 80% - 90% of regular players who sit with you at a live 1/2 table place zero thought into BR management - probably zero bankroll!! - firstly they are mostly loosing players, and secondly they play out of their pocket - just with disposable income (long live the celtic tiger! if they aren't gambling it - it's going up their nose or into their liver - it's probably the savest way of them spewing their (hand earned lol) money)

BigCityBanker

robinlacey wrote:

has anyone experienced a live 1/2 game downswing of 10 buyins?

?? anybody?

bops

BigCityBanker wrote:

?? anybody?

yes of course & 90% of other players im sure

Imposter

BigCityBanker wrote:

?? anybody?

I've had a 1600 downswing with 1/2 PLO in 2 nights (with 200 buy-ins at a time) if that counts. But it wasn't in Dublin.

BigCityBanker

Imposter wrote:

I've had a 1600 downswing with 1/2 PLO in 2 nights (with 200 buy-ins at a time) if that counts. But it wasn't in Dublin.

PLO iz a bit different tho.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

baker1

BigCityBanker wrote:

?? anybody?

I did €2300 about a month ago in a 1-2 N/L game. I might have been on tilt a little though.

Lissavalley

BigCityBanker wrote:

?? anybody?

I did 1.1k last week playing 1 3. Mixture of bad cards, bad play and big hands running into bigger hands.

BigCityBanker

Do people not cap themselves out at a maximum loss on any given night akin to a stop loss limit placed on a market trader?

Lose 2*200 and go home, there is always tomorrow!

The last race today can be the first race tomorrow.

baker1

BigCityBanker wrote:

Do people not cap themselves out at a maximum loss on any given night akin to a stop loss limit placed on a market trader?

Lose 2*200 and go home, there is always tomorrow!

The last race today can be the first race tomorrow.

While a stop loss system has its advantages it is often right to stay in a game even when losing. If you are suffeciently bankrolled and can avoid tilting or altering your playing stlye and the game is beatable why would you leave?