So I stepped off the LUAS this mornin...

Shadowless

...and was greeted by my friendly neighbourhood LUAS inspector.

"Ticket Please..."
"Eh..."

Can I just tell him to f**k off?
My luas journey is over, why do I need a ticket?
Does he have any recourse if I claim I left it on the luas?

Anyone got any ideas?
Please no "Buy a ticket you stingy ba**ard" replies...


Oh and is this the right forum for this kinda thing? The commuting and transport one looked a bit bleak...

cold_filter

You need to have a valid ticket on you while your journey is in progress, your journey had stopped as you had disembarked from the luas therefore you do not need to produce a ticket

Cal

Sorry Boss, The dog ate it.

m_stan

Buy a ticket you stingy ba**ard

Beano

Even if he stops you while are on the Luas you can just get off at the next stop as they dont have the power to detain you*.

*This is obviously just an opinion based on anecdotal evidence and should not be construed as legal advice.

HelterSkelter

Beano wrote:

Even if he stops you while are on the Luas you can just get off at the next stop as they dont have the power to detain you.

I always wondered this, especially on buses. If you just told him to get out of your way could you get off or does he have the power to restrain you. If he touches you is it assault? False imprisonment?

davyjose

No Comprendès Senor <keeps walking>

Overheal

Seriously....just get on, get caught and get off: how would they ever chase you for that?

I'd rather do that and force them to escalate their payment security than deal with the current sack of crap.

Random

In my experience on the bus the inspector asks you to pay, you say no, he asks you to get off the bus.

Then the scumbag junkie (yay!) decides he doesn't want to, then they radio for the guards, then everyone in 30 mins late for work because some asshole wouldn't get off the bus!

PeakOutput

i know its not the same as keeping you on the train but i saw 5/6 romanians being forcibly removed (thrown off hard) a dart so they do have the power to lay their hands on you and im sure there are by laws for the luas and the bus aswell giving them power to at least detain you until the police get there if necessary

if your already off i doubt they can do anything

biko

Shadowless wrote:

Oh and is this the right forum for this kinda thing? The commuting and transport one looked a bit bleak...

That's against the charter. But it's up to the mods what fits here or not.

Exit

Seriously, why not just pay?

Tá Mé Gaeilge

As my name might suggest I'm one of the angry Gaeilgoir types but it comes in handy in these situations. I get the Luas loads but never pay really. If you have any Irish at all ask them to ask you for your ticket in Irish..

"An féidir leat ceist a cuireadh orm i gcomhair mo thicéid i mo theanga féin le do thoill?"

... They will most likely stare at you so just quote a few articles of Irish constitution and tell them you have right to use any state service in Irish and they'll walk off feeling bad.

If they've already issued you with a fine complain that the writing on it is in English to the Luas Company people. I had to do this when one inspector was actually able to ask me for my ticket and I didnt have one! They wont bother persuing it after that

Miguel_Sanchez

Overheal wrote:

Seriously....just get on, get caught and get off: how would they ever chase you for that?

I'd rather do that and force them to escalate their payment security than deal with the current sack of crap.

Heading home on the Luas one night I saw two guys and a girl about 18 jump off at Harcourt Street when they saw ticket inspectors moving through the tram. The two inspectors each jumped out and headed them off at the stop. Everyone laughed at the kids, rich enough for Abercrombie and Fitch but too scabby to pay for tickets.

So yes, they will make some effort to catch you.

I think under the bye laws if the inspector sees you getting off the tram then they can ask you for your ticket so you're supposed to keep it on you until you've left the platform. In the same way you don't leave your DART ticket on the DART you don't leave your LUAS ticket on the LUAS.

Anyway - buy a ticket ya scabby bastard!

magick

...and was greeted by my friendly neighbourhood LUAS inspector.

"Ticket Please..."
"Eh..."

Can I just tell him to f**k off?
My luas journey is over, why do I need a ticket?

No ur still on the Luas , so hes well within his right to ask u for it

Jesus Wept

Shadowless wrote:

Does he have any recourse if I claim I left it on the luas?

littering charge

Judt

I think they have jurisdiction within a certain distance of the Luas - he couldn't chase you down the street for it, but if you're standing on the tracks then you're fair game.

If you don't buy a ticket then don't complain if you're caught.

phantom_lord

tut tut paraic. you're a working man now, not a poor student, shouldn't be freeloading like that!

bohsman

Got of the Dart at Pearse St recently, fella taking tickets on the way out, I couldnt be bothered searching through my pockets for it so walk past, he runs after me and grabs me by the shoulder, I know he cant lay a hand on me so I get pissed off shrug his hand of me and tell him to get his hands of me, he mutters something about me being barred from Pearse St.

I know security guards cant touch you once you leave the premises, would be fairly sure its the same with luas/bus etc

Lump

Seriously, asking for people not to Reply telling you to buy a ticket, just enforces the fact that you're a tight bastard.

People moan when stuff in Ireland costs so much, maybe it's because half the people using it don't pay!

Also, being on a luas platform, means you are still on the luas.
John

skywalker

Lump wrote:

Also, being on a luas platform, means you are still on the luas.
John

Hows that? all the public roads the luas stops are built on suddenly stopped becoming public roads/footpaths did they?

Red Alert

Buy a ticket and stop being an eejit. And the machines talk Irish as well as english.

I think however that they cannot stop you once you are off the LUAS and certainly not once you've left the platform.

singingstranger

Was gonna say what Tá Mé Gaeilge did... any official public service has a requirement of being administered bilingually. "Céard é sin? Cad faoin ticéaid?" and you're graaaand.

Saruman

It might be the case they technically he cant do anything to you.. however if he saw you again and remembered you he could ask you to leave. It may be a "what if" question but still its not worth the hassle.. especially if you actually have a ticket but "cant be arsed" to get it out. Thats just confrontational, gives you stress, gives him stress... gives other people something to look at so its also attention seeking... its pretty much stupid.

So next time.. just get your ticket out (if you have one) and smile and give it to him.

FlutterinBantam

This thread encapsulates the state the country is in.

jackasses who have probably toured the Far East,Vietnam, Australia,New Guinea with Pighead;) wont pay their fare on the Luas!!

They will be the first crowd to dis everything in Ireland without putting a red cent into it.

These smartasses seem to know all their rights,but have selective memories when it comes to responsibilities.

Just as well I'm not a Luas Inspector:mad:

source

Here's an idea....

1 Buy a ticket.....They're not that expensive.

2 Keep it somewhere accessible, that way if you're asked, which you know you can be, Then you have it to hand.

3 Stop being an idiot;)

Dragan

Shadowless wrote:

Please no "Buy a ticket you stingy ba**ard" replies...

The joy of an open forum is you don't always get what you want, now buy a ****ing ticket you stingy bastard.

singingstranger

Lump wrote:

Also, being on a luas platform, means you are still on the luas.

You sure about that? Surely then anybody who walks on the wrong side of the fence from Grafton Street to Harcourt Street and across the tiles at the Stephens Green station is fare-dodging? :rolleyes:

Dragan

Beano wrote:

Even if he stops you while are on the Luas you can just get off at the next stop as they dont have the power to detain you*.

*This is obviously just an opinion based on anecdotal evidence and should not be construed as legal advice.

That’s some fantastic advice there Beano, I assume you are looking to get the OP arrested?

Of course the Inspector has the right to detain you. Whatever way you want to cut it traveling on the Luas without a ticket is theft. I love the way it's excusable in this circumstance to some people because they assume the OP is a decent enough bloke. I wonder what you would be saying if the post said "got off the LUAS this morning and some scumbag was being pulled for not having a ticket…..priceless!".

If you don't have a ticket when asked, and the inspector is perfectly entitled to ask you as they see you getting off the Luas, then your fined. This is clearly displayed all over the stops and is a term and condition of use of the Luas. If you don't want to pay the fine then they can keep you there and call the cops on you if they feel the need.

This is what happens when you act the ****, you get get treated like one.

whiskeyman

interesting post.
Saw this happen to a girl at Beechwood at the weekend. 2 inspectors 'cornered' her at the Mortons shop and asked her for a ticket. It looked very intimidating and I thought was bang out of order. They should only be asking for tickets on the luas itself IMO.

I think the OP wants to know the legal standing, and doesn't need advice on how not to be a 'stingy b*stard' etc...

I would presume they have no recourse. What’s stopping the girl from sayig 'what do you mean, I just arrived and now I'm about to buy a ticket to go somewhere' since she wasn't on the luas? The Luas stops aren't exactly 'stations' and I doubt they are property of the operators (fair enough,. the ticket machines and stands are).

stovelid

I've often seen similar rows between inspectors and other fare dodgers.

The law should be changed so that they can extract the fare from you with a lump hammer and let the rest of us get to where we're going on time and in peace.

Shadowless

This thread's really taken off. I'm delighted.
The request for no "stingy bas*ard" replies was made in jest. Expected nothing else tbh.

keltoms

just turn ur earfones up full blast and walk straight by him!

stovelid

Shadowless wrote:

This thread's really taken off. I'm delighted.
The request for no "stingy bas*ard" replies was made in jest. Expected nothing else tbh.

Slow Motion

Tá M&#233 wrote: »

As my name might suggest I'm one of the angry Gaeilgoir types but it comes in handy in these situations. I get the Luas loads but never pay really. If you have any Irish at all ask them to ask you for your ticket in Irish..

"An féidir leat ceist a cuireadh orm i gcomhair mo thicéid i mo theanga féin le do thoill?"

... They will most likely stare at you so just quote a few articles of Irish constitution and tell them you have right to use any state service in Irish and they'll walk off feeling bad.

If they've already issued you with a fine complain that the writing on it is in English to the Luas Company people. I had to do this when one inspector was actually able to ask me for my ticket and I didnt have one! They wont bother persuing it after that

Well I'm and angry tax payer ! And angry that the portion of my taxes that goes to pay for the crap service I have to put up with is actually being wasted on freeloaders like you, stop being a smartar$e and contribute !:mad:

Gator

I think its one of the funniest things ever, have you ever seen these guys, huge jackets and im sure they have huge bellys, just leggit, theres not a chance they would be able to keep up, although im a good boy who always buys my ticket:)

takola

Well, what DID you do??

Beano

Dragan wrote:

That’s some fantastic advice there Beano, I assume you are looking to get the OP arrested?

Of course the Inspector has the right to detain you. Whatever way you want to cut it traveling on the Luas without a ticket is theft. I love the way it's excusable in this circumstance to some people because they assume the OP is a decent enough bloke. I wonder what you would be saying if the post said "got off the LUAS this morning and some scumbag was being pulled for not having a ticket…..priceless!".

If you don't have a ticket when asked, and the inspector is perfectly entitled to ask you as they see you getting off the Luas, then your fined. This is clearly displayed all over the stops and is a term and condition of use of the Luas. If you don't want to pay the fine then they can keep you there and call the cops on you if they feel the need.

This is what happens when you act the ****, you get get treated like one.

I'm not looking to start an argument but on what basis can they detain? In order to detain you they have to perform a citizens arrest. In order to do this it must be an arrestable offence. Would breaking the terms and conditions of the luas be considered an arrestable offence? There was a recent thread on citizens arrest on the legal discussion forum and the definiton of an arrestable offence was "An 'arrestable offence' is an offence for which the penalty, for a person who has no previous convictions, can be 5 years imprisonment or more" I dont think fare dodging on the luas falls in to this category.

luckat

If you really want to surprise the inspector, say: "Thank you, I've been waiting to see if the rules are enforced - here's the €320 I owe you for all the fares I've stolen from this nationally-run service in the last five years."

Anti

davyjose wrote:

No Comprendès Senor <keeps walking>

Oh i must remember that one, will save me 47€ a month. More money for beer is always a good thing.

Shadowless

takola wrote:

Well, what DID you do??

Well in truth, this happened to my mate yesterday, not me. I turned left off the Luas, he turned right and bumped straight into the Inspector.

My mate tried walkin past him but yer man started shoutin at him and followin him down the street. As he was headin to work at the time this was not a situation he could allow to continue so he sucked it up and took the ticket.

The inspector was really aggressive and demanded ID and the whole lot. He saw his company I.D. and wrote down the name of them, saying they'd find him through work if he didn't pay. To be expected I suppose, though I thought it a bit extreme myself. They must work on commission.

Afterwards I figured he just coulda said he left his ticket on the luas or that I had it and yer man could do nothin about it. He reckoned that wouldn't work. Thought I'd post it up here, see what the concensus was...

mikemac

Tá M&#233 wrote: »

As my name might suggest I'm one of the angry Gaeilgoir types but it comes in handy in these situations. I get the Luas loads but never pay really. If you have any Irish at all ask them to ask you for your ticket in Irish..

"An féidir leat ceist a cuireadh orm i gcomhair mo thicéid i mo theanga féin le do thoill?"

... They will most likely stare at you so just quote a few articles of Irish constitution and tell them you have right to use any state service in Irish and they'll walk off feeling bad.

If they've already issued you with a fine complain that the writing on it is in English to the Luas Company people. I had to do this when one inspector was actually able to ask me for my ticket and I didnt have one! They wont bother persuing it after that

That's a great suggestion and I will keep that in mind though I rarely use the Luas.
Hey, if Irish is the first offical language of the state they should be able to issue a fine in Irish also. I wonder do the inspectors pass an Irish exam like the gardai.

source

Fare dodging is theft, theft is an arrestable offence, if the op had said "i got a cab home the other night and ran off instead of paying the fare", posters on here would be saying something completely different.

But it really is the same as dodging a fare on a bus, train, luas, dart, airplane, ferry etc etc etc

Slow Motion

foinse wrote:

Fare dodging is theft, theft is an arrestable offence, if the op had said "i got a cab home the other night and ran off instead of paying the fare", posters on here would be saying something completely different.

But it really is the same as dodging a fare on a bus, train, luas, dart, airplane, ferry etc etc etc

Dodging the fare in the short term, but we all end up paying !

Ballerina

foinse wrote:

Fare dodging is theft, theft is an arrestable offence, if the op had said "i got a cab home the other night and ran off instead of paying the fare", posters on here would be saying something completely different.

But it really is the same as dodging a fare on a bus, train, luas, dart, airplane, ferry etc etc etc

you really think dodging $1.40 on the bus is the same as dodging a $500 airplane ticket?ok i know the principle is the same but come on..

Huggles

Beano wrote:

I'm not looking to start an argument but on what basis can they detain? In order to detain you they have to perform a citizens arrest. In order to do this it must be an arrestable offence. Would breaking the terms and conditions of the luas be considered an arrestable offence? There was a recent thread on citizens arrest on the legal discussion forum and the definiton of an arrestable offence was "An 'arrestable offence' is an offence for which the penalty, for a person who has no previous convictions, can be 5 years imprisonment or more" I dont think fare dodging on the luas falls in to this category.

Would you go into a shop and steal a pint of milk?

You use a service..you have to pay for that service. Its theft IMO

source

Ballerina wrote:

you really think dodging $1.40 on the bus is the same as dodging a $500 airplane ticket?ok i know the principle is the same but come on..

The amount written on the ticket doesn't come into it, If i walk into a shop and pick up a mars bar and walk out, it's the same as if i walk into another shop and pick up an mp3 player and walk out, It's all theft the price on the tag doesn't make it a different crime....it does make it a more or less serious charge and the sentence will be different, but the crime itself is the exact same.

so i'm not comparing a €1.40 fare to a €500 fare, i'm comparing theft with theft.

:|

Oh come on, how many of you have downloaded music, or copied cds recently. Stop trying to take the moral high ground

source

wrote:

Oh come on, how many of you have downloaded music, or copied cds recently. Stop trying to take the moral high ground

I can safely say that i haven't, i hate copied dvd's and cd's because the quality is never as good and i like having originals, also my connection is too slow for downloading. Theft is theft.

Ballerina

wrote:

Oh come on, how many of you have downloaded music, or copied cds recently. Stop trying to take the moral high ground

good point (although im sure they'll all try to say that they havent!) :rolleyes:

tbh

Tá M&#233 wrote: »

As my name might suggest I'm one of the angry Gaeilgoir types but it comes in handy in these situations. I get the Luas loads but never pay really. If you have any Irish at all ask them to ask you for your ticket in Irish..

"An féidir leat ceist a cuireadh orm i gcomhair mo thicéid i mo theanga féin le do thoill?"

... They will most likely stare at you so just quote a few articles of Irish constitution and tell them you have right to use any state service in Irish and they'll walk off feeling bad.

If they've already issued you with a fine complain that the writing on it is in English to the Luas Company people. I had to do this when one inspector was actually able to ask me for my ticket and I didnt have one! They wont bother persuing it after that

yes, you are quite the patriot. So much so, I actually don't mind paying the extra on my ticket to subsidise you. You're basically debasing both the Irish constitution and language to wiggle out of your obligation to pay for a service you've decided to avail of. Nice.