To Grind Or Not To Grind.

cson

That is indeed the question. I had a heated debate today with one of my classmates about grinds. I think they're an aid to understanding a topic if you need them whereas she thinks they're just a moneyspinner and highlight the two-tiered nature of our education system.

For example in our school a certain teacher has not finished the course in a subject yet if you go to him for grinds he'll have it done. Its cynical that you have to pay to finish the course so to speak and that he may be holding back in class too.

I'm sure this has been debated to death already here but im interested to see what our year of leaving certs think.

JC 2K3

Money spinner, playing on students insecurities.

At the end of the day even a bad teacher will be able to explain a concept you don't understand if you ask, and you have to do the same amount of study, grinds or no grinds.

Assez Bien

total moneyspinner......hello i hav dat biology teacher....waste of time i may aswell teach myself d entire course cuz we only hav bout 60% of the course completed.....and we have not even consulted d biology book over the past 2yrs...also all definitions dis certain teacher has given us have not been correct, according to the syllubus anyway! Grrrr!!!

OctavarIan

cson wrote:

That is indeed the question. I had a heated debate today with one of my classmates about grinds. I think they're an aid to understanding a topic if you need them whereas she thinks they're just a moneyspinner and highlight the two-tiered nature of our education system.

Well for the most part there she's wrong, I got grinds in maths and physics and they helped enormously. Everyone I know who has gotten grinds in fact has said they were a huge help.

cson wrote:

For example in our school a certain teacher has not finished the course in a subject yet if you go to him for grinds he'll have it done. Its cynical that you have to pay to finish the course so to speak and that he may be holding back in class too.

Well I'm not in your class so I can't say for sure, but maybe, just maybe the reason you would pay him is because he is taking overtime to help you? You can't expect him to do it for free, very very few teachers would do that on even a once-off occasion. In the majority of cases it's not the teacher's fault that coursework falls behind schedule. As I said though I'm not in your class so I don't know what the story is in your case, maybe he is blatantly holding back the class, I wouldn't know.

cson

Peronally I'd advocate them in the case of a poor teacher, in Maths for example if the teacher cannot teach you to understand the concepts then it is going to be very difficult for you to do it yourself.

Its gone out of control though, all the grinds, revision books, revision courses, online grinds.......

How the hell did any leaving cert manage 10 or 15 years ago with feck all help

OctavarIan

cson wrote:

How the hell did any leaving cert manage 10 or 15 years ago with feck all help

They didn't have bebo and they like back then

Assez Bien

cson wrote:

Peronally I'd advocate them in the case of a poor teacher, in Maths for example if the teacher cannot teach you to understand the concepts then it is going to be very difficult for you to do it yourself.

Its gone out of control though, all the grinds, revision books, revision courses, online grinds.......

How the hell did any leaving cert manage 10 or 15 years ago with feck all help

Because it was bet into them!! They had no distractions i.e the internet r d mobile.....also they didn't hav the ridiculous points system so there was less pressure, it was all class based, those who had money were the ones who did the l.c. cuz they were the ones who cud pursue 3rd level education, Paul!

cson

OctavarIan wrote:

Well I'm not in your class so I can't say for sure, but maybe, just maybe the reason you would pay him is because he is taking overtime to help you? You can't expect him to do it for free, very very few teachers would do that on even a once-off occasion. In the majority of cases it's not the teacher's fault that coursework falls behind schedule. As I said though I'm not in your class so I don't know what the story is in your case, maybe he is blatantly holding back the class, I wouldn't know.

Consider the subject is Biology. Now the Dept. Of Education sets out a syllabus for each subject that can be comfortably completed in 2 years. Any other way just wouldn't make sense. Most subjects can be completed a few months in advance of the exams, sometimes before the mocks. You should not in truth be struggling to complete a course 3 weeks before the exam.

Fair enough it is overtime, but do you know any other job where the O/T rate is €20 - €25 an hour? If you do please tell me :rolleyes:

The fact that he may be holding back in class to encourage students to get grinds off him is disturbing to say the least.

Assez Bien, you know who i'm talking about.

Assez Bien

Fact! That certain teacher enrages me, also those who don't get grinds have to deal with his snide remarks about how u should drop levels n d like.....plainly because he knows its close to impossible 2 get a high grade without takin his grinds.

Also he is possibly the biggest miser i know as in when its his round in the pub, he'll leave......or so many sources have told me!

cson

I heard of a teacher making €20,000 in grinds year. Which is tax-free afaik.

The life of a teacher - €35 ish grand a year, €20k in grinds, off at 4/3 most days, summers off, weekends off, what a life!

Anyway on topic, the way I see it is that if you have money (i.e. if your parents are loaded) you can do whatever you want, the institute, grinds, revison books/courses whatever, should get ya whatever points you need.

Basic fact is the education system is the same as the health system, two tiered and it aint gonna change.

ZorbaTehZ

What I hate is when I see these knob-heads down at grind-centres - some of them have 5/6 classes ahead of them on a saturday - and knowing that there is a possibility that they may take the place of a student of equal (or possibly more) intelligence (who may not be as financially well off as them) because they can afford to take better quality classes and extra classes.

I openly despise these people (there's two in my class); they hardly bother doing any work in classes: "Ah sher I have grinds later". One of them has fluent Irish and lives in the gaeltacht and is taking Irish grinds !!! Her Irish is better than mine - and I got an A1 in the Mocks !!! The same person is getting grinds in all her subjects!!!

Also another worrying thing that stems from the fact these grind-schools employ absolutely incredibly good teachers is that, every other teacher is held up in comparison to these teachers, for example "Dr. Bob" is legendary around Galway City, and regularly I here people say things like "X teacher explained that better in grind class", which must have some kind of a detrimental effect on school teachers.

lal, rant over.:)

cson

Yup, heard all about "Dr Bob" for Hl Maths in Galway. Supposedly brilliant. Well he'd want to be good at maths to count all the money he's raking in from grinds.

OctavarIan

ZorbaTehZ wrote:

What I hate is when I see these knob-heads down at grind-centres - some of them have 5/6 classes ahead of them on a saturday - and knowing that there is a possibility that they may take the place of a student of equal (or possibly more) intelligence (who may not be as financially well off as them) because they can afford to take better quality classes and extra classes.

I openly despise these people (there's two in my class); they hardly bother doing any work in classes: "Ah sher I have grinds later". One of them has fluent Irish and lives in the gaeltacht and is taking Irish grinds !!! Her Irish is better than mine - and I got an A1 in the Mocks !!! The same person is getting grinds in all her subjects!!!

Also another worrying thing that stems from the fact these grind-schools employ absolutely incredibly good teachers is that, every other teacher is held up in comparison to these teachers, for example "Dr. Bob" is legendary around Galway City, and regularly I here people say things like "X teacher explained that better in grind class", which must have some kind of a detrimental effect on school teachers.

lal, rant over.:)

Money makes the world go round.

ZorbaTehZ

OctavarIan wrote:

Money makes the world go round.

No wai?

OctavarIan

ZorbaTehZ wrote:

No wai?

Lol of course not, I was joking. The world doesn't spin round, that's ridiculous.

JC 2K3

OctavarIan wrote:

Well for the most part there she's wrong, I got grinds in maths and physics and they helped enormously. Everyone I know who has gotten grinds in fact has said they were a huge help.

pfft, everyone who does grinds says they're a "great help". Perhaps they do help. But why? Better teacher? No. Better notes? No.

The reason they help is because the student is actively focused on the subject for a longer period of time than if they didn't do grinds, and since there's a teacher present, they can't let their minds wander like they might if they were simply studying on their own.

You can make all these bs arguments about some people having learning difficulties, some people having lower attention spans etc. But the cold, hard truth is that those who "need" grinds simply are too lazy to make a concentrated effort on learning something.

Let's take maths for an example. I am classed as an "above average" student. With maths everyone seems to think these types of classifications are to do with natural ability and are an inherent part of someone. This is a load of crap. As an "above average" student, does everything come to me easily? Not exactly. I learn the basics like everyone else, however, if I want to learn how to do harder questions I know I must make a concentrated effort on doing harder questions. When doing hard questions from a new topic in maths I used to often spend over an hour on a single question/part of a question trying many different things before I decided that ultimately I could not do the question and would need to ask the teacher what I was doing wrong, though I found I rarely reached this point as if you put a concentrated effort into a question you get the right answer most of the time. But do other, weaker students do this? No. They give up on hard questions after 20 minutes of getting nowhere with one method.

Grinds will spoonfeed them and improve their maths, but they're just after wasting a load of money because they're not willing to put in a decent effort on their own.

In other cases high achieving students take grinds because of the pressure on them and the fúcked up mentality that if they don't do grinds they're not going to do their best in the LC, again, load of bollocks.


All you need to learn is a book. The only purpose a teacher serves is to introduce you to different elements of the course and give you a basic understanding, as well as functioning as someone to answer any questions you might have. It's up to you to do the work.

Fobia

cson wrote:

Fair enough it is overtime, but do you know any other job where the O/T rate is €20 - €25 an hour? If you do please tell me :rolleyes:

...most decently paid skilled jobs?

9-5 Monday to Friday, if you're on 45k a year, that's about €20 an hour, I think. Overtime is usually a time and a half..?

OctavarIan

JC 2K3 wrote:

You can make all these bs arguments about some people having learning difficulties, some people having lower attention spans etc. But the cold, hard truth is that those who "need" grinds simply are too lazy to make a concentrated effort on learning something.

Grinds will spoonfeed them and improve their maths, but they're just after wasting a load of money because they're not willing to put in a decent effort on their own.

Well I actually CAN make that arguement because I did have lots of trouble with maths for the LC. I wasn't going to waste the teacher's time in class and set back the other 20-odd people. I got grinds because I just couldn't understand it on my own (and believe me I did try hard). For me it wasn't a case of laziness or not putting in effort. Your 'cold hard truth' is nothing more than some bull**** you're spewing off the top of your head, you won't get far in life with that narrowminded outlook buddy.

JC2K3 wrote:

All you need to learn is a book. The only purpose a teacher serves is to introduce you to different elements of the course and give you a basic understanding, as well as functioning as someone to answer any questions you might have. It's up to you to do the work.

You're sorted for college then. (serious)

Naikon

ZorbaTehZ wrote:

What I hate is when I see these knob-heads down at grind-centres - some of them have 5/6 classes ahead of them on a saturday - and knowing that there is a possibility that they may take the place of a student of equal (or possibly more) intelligence (who may not be as financially well off as them) because they can afford to take better quality classes and extra classes.

I openly despise these people (there's two in my class); they hardly bother doing any work in classes: "Ah sher I have grinds later". One of them has fluent Irish and lives in the gaeltacht and is taking Irish grinds !!! Her Irish is better than mine - and I got an A1 in the Mocks !!! The same person is getting grinds in all her subjects!!!

Also another worrying thing that stems from the fact these grind-schools employ absolutely incredibly good teachers is that, every other teacher is held up in comparison to these teachers, for example "Dr. Bob" is legendary around Galway City, and regularly I here people say things like "X teacher explained that better in grind class", which must have some kind of a detrimental effect on school teachers.

lal, rant over.:)

Dont stress about it......at least in third level courses money cant buy the best Lecturer:)
I wonder will grinds school students hack independant learning and not just "rote learn" or "memorise" the information but actually think about it?
It would be unfair to paint everyone in a grinds school to be like this, but from people I know personally.....this observation seems justified.

cson

Fobia wrote:

...most decently paid skilled jobs?

9-5 Monday to Friday, if you're on 45k a year, that's about €20 an hour, I think. Overtime is usually a time and a half..?

Meh, their overtime is taxed. And €20 is the lower end of the scale. I've heard rates of €60 from some of my friends that live inside the pale.

OctavarIan

cson wrote:

Meh, their overtime is taxed. And €20 is the lower end of the scale. I've heard rates of €60 from some of my friends that live inside the pale.

Who the hell pays €60 an hour :eek:

Steve01

JC 2K3 wrote:

You can make all these bs arguments about some people having learning difficulties, some people having lower attention spans etc. But the cold, hard truth is that those who "need" grinds simply are too lazy to make a concentrated effort on learning something.

Tá an fírinne searbh! But its so very true. I have friends who are getting grinds in at least 4 out of 6 honours subjects. And why bother with them? Not just because they're lazy but because they have this backwards notion that if they give some intelligent person enough money somehow the work will be done. When will people learn...

cson

OctavarIan wrote:

Who the hell pays €60 an hour :eek:

You'd be surprised how many do. I know of a guy whose family spent the guts of €3000 on Maths grinds for him......in order for him to get a C3 at Ordinary. That definitely comes under JC 2K3's point of laziness. Three ****ing grand!

OctavarIan

cson wrote:

You'd be surprised how many do. I know of a guy whose family spent the guts of €3000 on Maths grinds for him......in order for him to get a C3 at Ordinary. That definitely comes under JC 2K3's point of laziness. Three ****ing grand!

€3000 for a C3 in ORDINARY maths? I'm actually lost for words lol

cson

Thats laziness for ya.

JC 2K3

OctavarIan wrote:

Well I actually CAN make that arguement because I did have lots of trouble with maths for the LC. I wasn't going to waste the teacher's time in class and set back the other 20-odd people. I got grinds because I just couldn't understand it on my own (and believe me I did try hard). For me it wasn't a case of laziness or not putting in effort. Your 'cold hard truth' is nothing more than some bull**** you're spewing off the top of your head, you won't get far in life with that narrowminded outlook buddy.

I'm sorry, but what could your grinds teacher have possibly told you that gave you an epiphany regarding understanding maths?

I'm not denying your grinds helped you. But I mean the book explains everything(don't use the "the book was shíte" argument, apart from the fact that you could have gotten a better book, these days you can use the internet to get hundreds of explanations of mathematical concpets, and even ask for help and have it given by helpful people for free like this forum)), and the odd question when something was unclear wouldn't have held your whole class back.

Grinds, in most cases these days, especially considering our generation has the internet, are unecessary and a waste of money IMO.

ZorbaTehZ

Typical example in Galway (I won't name the place but I'm sure you can guess)

Easter Week:
7 day English Course E290 (for a 1.5 hour class a day)
Thats E27.61 an hour.

35 people in the classroom.
Thats E966 an hour.
Or E10k+ plus a week.

Runs at least 3 of these in the week (2 weeks in easter)
Thats E60k+

WTFPWNED? Thats only the English courses !!! They run maths, biology, history, physics etc.!!!

WTFPWNED? Thats only 2 weeks in the bloody year!!!

EDIT:Typo

OctavarIan

JC 2K3 wrote:

I'm sorry, but what could your grinds teacher have possibly told you that gave you an epiphany regarding understanding maths?

I'm not denying your grinds helped you. But I mean the book explains everything(don't use the "the book was shíte" argument, apart from the fact that you could have gotten a better book, these days you can use the internet to get hundreds of explanations of mathematical concpets, and even ask for help and have it given by helpful people for free like this forum)), and the odd question when something was unclear wouldn't have held your whole class back.

Grinds, in most cases these days, especially considering our generation has the internet, are unecessary and a waste of money IMO.

He was able to go through it step by step at my own pace. I guess I was lucky in that I wasn't extorted price-wise and I got to choose what areas to focus on. Books or text on a screen can never substitute for having someone next to you who can help. I'll agree a lot of grinds are a waste of money (€3000 for ordinary maths!!) but they're aren't unnecessary. Now, places like the institute and that €50 english seminar day, they're just money making schemes alright.

lilmizzme

I believe that if the individual feels they need grinds, then they should go ahead and get them....I hate, however, the attitude that so many in my year have "Oh Im not going to bother in this class, I'll do X topic in grinds later anyway" or "Im not doing homework for X teacher, Ive already got enough grinds homework as it is" It's so distracting trying to listen in a class where there's a group of girls down the back having a chat because either way, Mammy and Daddy will fix everything with classes in the Institute...:mad:

I do feel many grinds school, such as the Institute, play on student's fear, and exploit their panic to make money...I have gone to a grind in Maths only to realise after 2 or 3 weeks that I din't actually need them as much as I thought...

ZorbaTehZ

lilmizzme wrote:

I believe that if the individual feels they need grinds, then they should go ahead and get them....I hate, however, the attitude that so many in my year have "Oh Im not going to bother in this class, I'll do X topic in grinds later anyway" or "Im not doing homework for X teacher, Ive already got enough grinds homework as it is" It's so distracting trying to listen in a class where there's a group of girls down the back having a chat because either way, Mammy and Daddy will fix everything with classes in the Institute...:mad:

Thanks.
Nice to know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

lilmizzme

And whoever said it earlier about those better off are taking places in college of people who can't afford the grinds are spot on...stupid grinds schools are messing up the whole points system....

Point of Information: 70% of Institute students drop out of college in their first year....daddy's money can't help you in Uni it seems....

fuinneamh

The only reason you should need grinds is if you can't understand a concept and the teacher is failing miserably to do so. Although i do think that any concept can be explained by the resident experts here on boards, so there shouldn't be any need for grinds. in short the leaving cert is a graph with work and results on the axis' and a straight line through the origin. So if you don't do well your just being lazy.

shazzyshaz

ZorbaTehZ wrote:

Typical example in Galway (I won't name the place but I'm sure you can guess)

Easter Week:
7 day English Course E290 (for a 1.5 hour class a day)
Thats E27.61 an hour.

35 people in the classroom.
Thats E966 an hour.
Or E10k+ plus a week.

Runs at least 3 of these in the week (2 weeks in easter)
Thats E60k+

WTFPWNED? Thats only the English courses !!! They run maths, biology, history, physics etc.!!!

WTFPWNED? Thats only 2 weeks in the bloody year!!!

EDIT:Typo

HAHA thats my school!!! bloody good school too. -those easter courses are a little overpriced though! but the termtime fees- hell its worth it!

shazzyshaz

lilmizzme wrote:

And whoever said it earlier about those better off are taking places in college of people who can't afford the grinds are spot on...stupid grinds schools are messing up the whole points system....

Point of Information: 70% of Institute students drop out of college in their first year....daddy's money can't help you in Uni it seems....

ahem.(though i dont go to the tute)

OctavarIan

fuinneamh wrote:

So if you don't do well your just being lazy.

That's quite frankly, bull****. It's a pity schools don't teach people to not be narrow-minded snobs.

cocoa

Bah, let them take grinds if they wish to take grinds. What do you care? You can still do your work and get your good marks just the same as if they weren't getting grinds. The only difference is that, hypothetically if we assume their marks are going up due to grinds, your marks are devalued. So work harder. I'm serious, the Leaving Cert is an entirely doable exam with nothing that requires extraordinary abilities, rote learning for the most part will suffice. There is nothing stopping you surpassing the performance of grinds students, so just do it yourself.

I have never had the misfortune to attend grinds so I won't deny that they can help. But I will say that anything achievable in grinds is also achievable on your own and grinds will only be truly effective if the students focuses and makes sure to use the time wisely and resolve their problems within the grind time. Grinds will have very little or no effect if the student is passive.

One thing I will say in defence of grinds (one to one grinds) is that they can cut back on the time needed to solve something. If, for example, the student does some work on their own and hits a problem they can either struggle with it for an hour and maybe get it out (which admittedly would be very encouraging and gratifying) or they can save that thought and have the grinder go through it and fix the problem in a shorter space of time. To me, that's the only difference.

unnameduser

ffs...

my opinion on this is quite simple.

If one can get benefit out of grinds and improve their grades well i see no problem. what is wrong with some extra help... The fact that the person makes money from this does not matter. YES the school / teacher should be able to educate the pupil but if this is not happening then the pupil must get outside help.;

Some one holding up a class to ensure that students attend his / her grind... well, that is out of order.

If a teacher can make 20k a year extra out of grinds i say fair play to them. They give grinds cause students need them. For those of you who complain about the money that teachers / grind schools make then finish the leaving cert and become a teacher or open a grind school.

lilmizzme

You go on to a grinds thread where people are openly complaining about grinds, then you post a grinds website as your signature....are you openly looking for an argument???

unnameduser

signature removed to keep the peace. But lilmizzme if you took the time to have a look at it, the link had nothing to do with grinds.. it was about software that showed mandatory experiments for biology for LC students.

cson

I think you'll find that a lot of people would have a problem with a teacher making €20K a year tax free. In no other job can you get upwards (and very upwards sometimes) of €20 an hour "overtime" and not have to pay a cent tax on it. *(Afaik, grinds are tax free).

Its a sad reflection on an individual or indeed their parents if they feel they need to go to a grind school a la Yeats, The Institute etc in order to obtain a 'good' leaving cert.

You could get 9 A1s in the leaving, will it make you a good doctor? Who knows? You could have the worst social skills in the world. And lets be honest those grind schools extra-curricular activities aren't how shall I say, prevalent in those schools.

OctavarIan

cson wrote:

You could get 9 A1s in the leaving, will it make you a good doctor? Who knows? You could have the worst social skills in the world.

Don't they have an aptitude test for LC students wanting to go into medicine now?

cson

unnameduser wrote:

it was about software that showed mandatory experiments for biology for LC students.

I'll presume its not free.

Tamato, Tomatoe, you're charging for biology 'software', you're obviously not doing it for the good of your health or god forbid to help leaving cert students. You're doing because its a way of making money, you play on the insecurities of students.

It's not a service you're offering, its a product. A product that will make you money.

cson

OctavarIan wrote:

Don't they have an aptitude test for LC students wanting to go into medicine now?

No this year, straight up 600 pointers will get into it. Afaik next year the aptitude test and interview will come into it from a random selection of applicants who get 450 points. I think UL and RCSI are providing it but im not 100% sure about it.

unnameduser

cson wrote:

I'll presume its not free.

Tamato, Tomatoe, you're charging for biology 'software', you're obviously not doing it for the good of your health or god forbid to help leaving cert students. You're doing because its a way of making money, you play on the insecurities of students.

It's not a service you're offering, its a product. A product that will make you money.

it is a revision product. just like any rapid revision, revise wise, or less stress more success product. ah they all playing on the insecurities of students or just providing a good product

cson

unnameduser wrote:

it is a revision product. just like any rapid revision, revise wise, or less stress more success product. ah they all playing on the insecurities of students or just providing a good product

Meh, you're still making money off the backs of the student populace so I wouldn't get high and mighty by saying "that link wasn't for grinds, it wasfor biology experiments".

Are less stress/revisewise/rapid revision there to benefit the student populace? No they're there to make a profit and so are you.

unnameduser

I will finish by saying this. These products are out there. Yes students are the target audience. Its all about supply and demand. If you want them, they can be bought. If you dont, then leave them on the shelf.

Anyway, each to their own opinion.

Best of luck in your exams.

SamHamilton

What I hate is when I see these knob-heads down at grind-centres - some of them have 5/6 classes ahead of them on a saturday - and knowing that there is a possibility that they may take the place of a student of equal (or possibly more) intelligence (who may not be as financially well off as them) because they can afford to take better quality classes and extra classes.

I was so happy when I met a few of my friends who go to private schools after my junior cert exams. They spent thousands on three years of spoon-feeding and grinds and I went to a school that doesn't teach physics, chemistry, applied maths, history, etc. and is full of 'cultchies' or so my 'friends' put it and I got all A's in all higher level subjects. I'm not the gloating kind and I don't think getting all A's or getting 600 points is better than 400 points or whatever, but I was so satisfied at their surprise:p ! They actually couldn't believe how someone in the gaeltacht could achieve it.

Money will never be a substitute for decent, hardworking people. While that may be slightly utopian but I believe it.:D

Darren1o1

I sometimes do teach people maths who are struggling (mainly family and friends) and from what i have seen of the students needing help, is that it is not always their fault and it is not always laziness. Alot of the students who i have helped have had problems with unstanding "why?" more than anything. It some classrooms (as was the case when i did leaving cert) teachers just simply threw infomation at students rather than explaining. I am currently finishing a degree in engineering currently and the applied nature of the mathematics tends to suit students who cannot understand in classes as such.

Then also there are the students who are lazy and who only wake up in easter of leaving cert and say "F**k".

In a way it is a two tiered system for those who can't learn within the standard curriculum must pay for a second crack at learning. Alot of the people i have helped would not have been able to afford grinds and would have failed as a result. But also it has alot to do with the type of student and teacher when learning a subject. Some teaching types just do not work for certain students and thats what it comes down to.

SamHamilton

Getting back onto topic...

They brought a psychologist into our school for three days to teach us how to study more effectively. We had something similar to this for a week earlier in the year and I just thought if we spent the hours we're spending (wasting in my opinion) learning how to study (I believe every one has their own methods anyway) studying we would get so much more done.

Also, the whole grinds thing...I know someone who travels for 40 mins to grinds and 40 mins back. If she spent that 80 mins studying, working at the subject she'd most likely do just as well.

Darren1o1

SamHamilton wrote:

Getting back onto topic...

They brought a psychologist into our school for three days to teach us how to study more effectively. We had something similar to this for a week earlier in the year and I just thought if we spent the hours we're spending (wasting in my opinion) learning how to study (I believe every one has their own methods anyway) studying we would get so much more done.

Also, the whole grinds thing...I know someone who travels for 40 mins to grinds and 40 mins back. If she spent that 80 mins studying, working at the subject she'd most likely do just as well.

I did the same at leaving cert. I felt it did not help me at all and was a complete waste of time and money. It was not until second year at uni that i developed a way which was best for me. It takes time to understand the methods which suit you best.

OctavarIan

cson wrote:

Are less stress/revisewise/rapid revision there to benefit the student populace? No they're there to make a profit

They're there to do both really. Obviously they have to make a profit, that's what business and the real world is about. However they also help students, I've seen too much evidence of that to think otherwise.

For instance take business studies. You could trawl through the book looking for the definitions, or you could buy a little book that has them all in it for a price that doesn't hurt your wallet. The amount of time you'd save with the little definitions book is worth the money imo.