Tobacco and other drugs?

Filan

A Muslim resident during my childhood told me that he was allowed to smoke cigarettes, yet a former Islamic colleague told me that Islam prohibited her from consuming Tobacco. Who is speaking the truth? The first mentioned man also said that Islam permitted Hashish and substances such as Cocaine etc as they are not prohibited in the Koran. What is the Islam position on these? They are obviously damaging to health but does Islamic doctrine explicitly deem their consumption a sin?

wes

Filan wrote:

A Muslim resident during my childhood told me that he was allowed to smoke cigarettes, yet a former Islamic colleague told me that Islam prohibited her from consuming Tobacco. Who is speaking the truth? The first mentioned man also said that Islam permitted Hashish and substances such as Cocaine etc as they are not prohibited in the Koran. What is the Islam position on these? They are obviously damaging to health but does Islamic doctrine explicitly deem their consumption a sin?

I am pretty sure mind altering drugs are prohibited in general. A lot aren't specifically mentioned so some people may think, because of this they are permissible.

blackthorn

filan wrote:

A Muslim resident during my childhood told me that he was allowed to smoke cigarettes, yet a former Islamic colleague told me that Islam prohibited her from consuming Tobacco. Who is speaking the truth?

Far as I am aware, the opinion on smoking cigarettes (in general) ranges between scholars from it being 'disliked' to it being prohibited because of the harm caused to health.

InFront

Tobacco is prohibited, as are marijuana and cocaine. I've often wondered if cocaine is prohibited in anaesthesia, have never really found an answer to that though.

As wes said, these drugs are not specifically mentioned from the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) so they are not directly and explicitly named as being haraam. However, from clear religious principles and precedents, it can be extrapolated fairly conclusively that taking tobacco, marijuana and cocaine, as well as other recreational drugs of this nature are not permissible.

You are right that there are Muslims who smoke tobacco, but doing so is contrary to being a good Muslim.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543740

Osman

Greetings,

I think that some or most of the scholars of the opinion that Tobacco is haraam (forbidden) because of this verse:

007:157
Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e.Muhammad SAW) whom they find written with them in the Taurât (Torah) (Deut, xviii, 15) and the Injeel (Gospel) (John xiv, 16)[], - he commands them for Al-Ma'rûf (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism and all that Islâm has ordained); and forbids them from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds, and all that Islâm has forbidden); he allows them as lawful At-Taiyibât [(i.e. all good and lawful) as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.], and prohibits them as unlawful Al-Khabâ'ith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.), he releases them from their heavy burdens (of Allâh's Covenant), and from the fetters (bindings) that were upon them. So those who believe in him (Muhammad SAW), honour him, help him, and follow the light (the Qur'ân) which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful.

Regards

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

are muslims allowed do anything fun?

wes

Mordeth wrote:

are muslims allowed do anything fun?

Well going by what we are talking about in this thread. Taking substances that will slowly kill you in the most painful manner are hardly fun.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

well, it's what they do to you before they kill you slowly and painfully that's fun. If I wanted to get anal, I could point out that life generally kills you pretty slowly and can often be quite painful, but that's no reason not to live life and enjoy it.

it's the same with drugs

just like to apologise for the above post of mine too, it may have come off as being insulting or somesuch.. I haven't slept yet, so I'm not performing at my peak.

wes

Mordeth wrote:

well, it's what they do to you before they kill you slowly and painfully that's fun. If I wanted to get anal, I could point out that life generally kills you pretty slowly and can often be quite painful, but that's no reason not to live life and enjoy it.

it's the same with drugs

just like to apologise for the above post of mine too, it may have come off as being insulting or somesuch.. I haven't slept yet, so I'm not performing at my peak.

No offense taken. A lot of friends have asked me as much. You are right that we are all dieing, but I find it best to not help it along as much as possible.

InFront

Mordeth wrote:

are muslims allowed do anything fun?

Yes, of course! Like wes I don't see the fun in lung cancer, but I see what you mean in general; it's a common myth that Muslims are angry or uptight or are, for some reason, opposed to fun. That's really not the case.

There are certain things which simply need to be taken seriously, like religion and maintaining personal health (which is itself a requirement within Islam anyway). Yet Islam is not 'anti-fun'. It's not a good idea for anyone to be miserable or doom-laden individuals; Islam is a practical religion, and in practice you sometimes really need to have a sense of humour. Islam does not endorse being excessive in our practices, I see no reason to think it endorses being excessively serious.

Playing sport, travelling, hanging out with friends, joking, bungee jumping - these things are perfectly fine. It's having fun without engaging in what is haram that matters. It's easy to be a happy Muslim, God has provided us with many great things to be happy about.

the_new_mr

Mordeth wrote:

are muslims allowed do anything fun?

Like InFront pointed out, there are LOADS of things you can do for fun that aren't forbidden. Playing computer games is something I enjoy doing in my spare time . A good bit of sport is something else you can do for fun as well and it's really good for your health on the plus side as well. The list is endless really... which is nice

HelterSkelter

InFront wrote:

Tobacco is prohibited, as are marijuana and cocaine. I've often wondered if cocaine is prohibited in anaesthesia, have never really found an answer to that though.

Why would the cocaine prohibited in anaesthesia be forbidden? Maybe I'm wrong but the reason alcohol and cocaine are forbidden is because the cause you to lost control and possible commit sinful acts which you would not do in your normal state of mine. Anaesthesia is necessary for medical purposes and to be honest I think anyone who believes it is haram is off the wall.

HelterSkelter

Mordeth wrote:

are muslims allowed do anything fun?

It's sad that a lot of Irish people don't consider anything which doesn't involve the intake of alcohol or drugs as fun.

(P.S. I am an Irish and I drink alcohol)

InFront

HelterSkelter wrote:

Why would the cocaine prohibited in anaesthesia be forbidden? Anaesthesia is necessary for medical purposes and to be honest I think anyone who believes it is haram is off the wall.

Yes I would guess that you're right, it does sound like the most likely answer.

I was just thinking out loud. I know that because of what some feel to be characteristic impurity of alcohol even without consumption, there are some Muslim Doctors who avoid it in swabbing wounds, especially since alternatives are easy to come by.
Cocaine would be used in a similar manner on the body (applied topically) but can also be taken orally for oral surgery, I'm just wondering if it is considered impure (bearing in mind that in most cases, there are alternatives).

It's just a minor question, I will try find out a bit more about it:)

the_new_mr

HelterSkelter wrote:

It's sad that a lot of Irish people don't consider anything which doesn't involve the intake of alcohol or drugs as fun.

Yeah, know what you mean.

HelterSkelter

A quick question for the Muslims here. Would you eat food which has alcohol as one of it's ingredients? Or something which was cooked in alcohol? Someone was telling me shellfish are cooked in wine but all the alcohol evaporates during the cooking. Would you eat shellfish cooked in this way? What about a sauce with alcohol as an ingredient, or a dessert? The alcohol content would never be enoug to intoxicate you so does this make it ok?

blackthorn

When buying food, I'd always check the ingredients. If there is alcohol listed, then I wouldn't eat it. Doesn't matter how little there is. At a restaurant I would ask if the sauces etc contained alcohol.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

it is very easy to have fun without alcohol

there's weed, acid, ecstasy and many many more:)


and like.. books and stuff

HelterSkelter

Mordeth wrote:

it is very easy to have fun without alcohol

there's weed, acid, ecstasy and many many more:)

What is your favourite way of having fun without using any of the above?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

reading mainly, if watching television or listening to music I can easily do it if I'm stoned but reading I have to be completely sober. Some people say to me they can read stoned, but I just don't see how it can be done.. can't follow a single thing on the page and I keep distracting myself.

the_new_mr

HelterSkelter wrote:

A quick question for the Muslims here. Would you eat food which has alcohol as one of it's ingredients? Or something which was cooked in alcohol? Someone was telling me shellfish are cooked in wine but all the alcohol evaporates during the cooking. Would you eat shellfish cooked in this way? What about a sauce with alcohol as an ingredient, or a dessert? The alcohol content would never be enoug to intoxicate you so does this make it ok?

Funny you should mention that. I was going to start a topic about this. Don't have time now though. In short, I think I prefer to stay on the safe side and not eat anything with minor traces of alcohol. As for the cooked with alcohol thing and it evaporating, it's a tough one.

HelterSkelter

the_new_mr wrote:

Funny you should mention that. I was going to start a topic about this. Don't have time now though. In short, I think I prefer to stay on the safe side and not eat anything with minor traces of alcohol. As for the cooked with alcohol thing and it evaporating, it's a tough one.

It would be an interesting topic. I have a Muslim friend who has drank "alcohol free" beer. As most people know it is never totally alcohol free, but there is less than 0.01% alcohol content (I think). How would you feel about drinking that?

Bottle_of_Smoke

HelterSkelter wrote:

It would be an interesting topic. I have a Muslim friend who has drank "alcohol free" beer. As most people know it is never totally alcohol free, but there is less than 0.01% alcohol content (I think). How would you feel about drinking that?

Eh you sure about that? I would have assumed it was just a beer flavoured drink.

the_new_mr wrote:

As for the cooked with alcohol thing and it evaporating, it's a tough one.

I would have said best asking a chemist, if you could be sure it was completely evaporated/sufficiently chemically changed by the heat so that it would not have the mind altering affect of alcohol would you be comfortable with it?

InFront

Yeah non-alcoholic beer does in fact contain alcohol as HelterSkelter said. Even at such low volume, I would just avoid it. Think about it this way, even 0,01% alcohol in a glass still contains millions of molecules of ethanol! (alcohol):) It's usually better to dwell on the safe side I think

if you could be sure it was completely evaporated/sufficiently chemically changed by the heat so that it would not have the mind altering affect of alcohol would you be comfortable with it?

There is a process called istihalah (a transformation where the ingredient is chemically changed) which renders some things halal. I can't think of any examples at the moment, but personally I would feel comfortable with that, provided it was authentically chemically transformed.

Filan

Iran I believe sells non-alcoholic beer...surely this nation above all would not sell a product containing alcohol?

InFront

You'd be surprised... all sorts of things go on in apparently Muslim countries that are not Islamic, Iran is no different as far as I know. In London there are Muslim shopkeepers who sell wine, in parts of Pakistan some people make their own alcohol for tourists, I think the moral is that we shouldn't judge what is permissible by the actions of just anybody.

I'm not sure if the "non-alcoholic" beer that Helterskelter was referring to is actually haram or not though. If in doubt, just have some milk:D

donaghs

Do you ever find that Muslims who've grown up in a largely Islamic countries tend to take a more relaxed view of these strictures, but those who've grown up in the Western countries (and consider themselves religious) are far more strict? From experience also, converts tend to be ultra-strict in trying to apply the rules of their new faith.

But thats something which just doesn't apply to religion. And there's the phrase "zeal of a convert".

I didn't know there was any prohibition on smoking. I visited Morrocco a few years ago and literally every local I met there was a chain-smoker.

Filan

Those thoughts had entered my mind Donagh...During my 3rd level History studies one of my lecturers said that people, (the Irish included) tend to practice their religion more when abroad..for several reasons. Religous organs tended to be communal meeting points for otherwise isolated emigrants. Converts choose to enter a religion and therefore their motivation is high..whereas people born into a religion have no choice ...and often eveolve into 'cradle muslims' or 'cradle catholics'. I have met Muslims in Turkey..often highly educated Muslims who told me that they had never read the Koran..but "yeah I'm a Muslim" "those rules originate from a long time ago" "Sher that was year 4 or 600..the world is different now" A convert would not speak in that manner. Also western societies allow people the freedom to choose whether to practice... In many 'Eastern ' countries people are born into repressive regimes which base their legitimacy on religion..government and religion are equated and both resented.

Oh dear I realise I have ventured into politics..sorry didn't intend to Hobbes, INfront, New Mr..please feel free to move this to a more appropriate home!

Alan

Wibbs

InFront wrote:

Yeah non-alcoholic beer does in fact contain alcohol as HelterSkelter said. Even at such low volume, I would just avoid it. Think about it this way, even 0,01% alcohol in a glass still contains millions of molecules of ethanol! (alcohol):) It's usually better to dwell on the safe side I think

I can see your point with this, but do not other things you may ingest not contain minute traces of alcohol? Obviously medicines(cough mixtures etc), but if you eat over ripe fruit would it not have a couple of molecules of alcohol drifting around in the mix? I suspect if you took the bus home from town on a saturday night breathing might be all you would need to get a fair few molecules of alcohol. I would suspect it's down to the intention of it all though.

InFront

I think that's exactly it - alcohol isn't completely avoidable. As Muslims we don't hold our noses when we refuel the car, nor can we avoid the fact that alcohol is used in everything from industrial cleaners in food production...to traces of alcohol in yeast, etc.
I really don't think we should be impractical about it, or go to what would largely be considered unnecessary extremes. Nor should we, as was discussed recently in another thread, try to make things haram which are not intended as such. On the other hand, I think veering on the safe side of caution is always preferable to disregarding caution when something is, or might be, doubtful - such as small trace amounts of alcohol in a drink.

InFront

Do you ever find that Muslims who've grown up in a largely Islamic countries tend to take a more relaxed view of these strictures, but those who've grown up in the Western countries (and consider themselves religious) are far more strict?

Certainly society and upbringing has some influence, I think it has more to do with family. I wouldn't use the term 'strict', but being removed from an Islamic environment might cause a Muslim to strive harder to actively preserve his faith which he might otherwise take for granted in a traditionally Muslim country.

On the other hand, some Muslims who are born here might seem to neglect or forget their beliefs.
So perhaps there is an ‘amplification effect’ to emigrating, but that’s just speculation.

I do agree with you however that converts (reverts) tend to be particularly exemplary to the rest of us.

Bottle_of_Smoke

InFront wrote:

Yeah non-alcoholic beer does in fact contain alcohol as HelterSkelter said. Even at such low volume, I would just avoid it. Think about it this way, even 0,01% alcohol in a glass still contains millions of molecules of ethanol! (alcohol):) It's usually better to dwell on the safe side I think

Yeah, & there's absoloutly no practical benefit because it tastes so very, very....VERY bad!

HelterSkelter

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Yeah, & there's absoloutly no practical benefit because it tastes so very, very....VERY bad!

You might want to look cool by drinking it!! lol And actually, I've had tiger beer (non-alcoholic) and it was very nice. But this is coming from an irishman who is used to drinking beer!!

maitri

InFront wrote:

Yeah non-alcoholic beer does in fact contain alcohol as HelterSkelter said. Even at such low volume, I would just avoid it. Think about it this way, even 0,01% alcohol in a glass still contains millions of molecules of ethanol! (alcohol):) It's usually better to dwell on the safe side I think

Just being curious: You say you want to "dwell on the safe side". What's the risk here, then, as you see it?

And if there really is a risk, don't you have the same risk with apple juice (or even apples and other fruits) and some kinds of milk?

BTW, while writing this post I just came across this Muslim article that seems to shed som light on the topic (though I don't know whether you agree with the writer or not):

http://www.themodernreligion.com/health/diet.html

Regards,

M.

InFront

maitri wrote:

You say you want to "dwell on the safe side". What's the risk here, then, as you see it?

What I mean here is risk in terms of Islamic health - avoiding things that have valid doubt attached. Or even if it were found to be halal, I would have a problem with the "implied" content of something labelled "beer", just on a personal level... not sure why really! Anyway there are so many normal drinks, why bother with it?:) (Interesting link btw)

don't you have the same risk with apple juice (or even apples and other fruits) and some kinds of milk?

It is sometimes said if you were to walk into any supermarket you could trace something in everything that comes from possibly "doubtful" sources - be they industrial cleaners, extraction methods, shared production machinery with pork - it could be anything. Unlike n.a. beer, we don't really know. I don't think we should spend too much time worrying about it. If we as Muslims avoided haram in daily life as much as we avoid haram of the diet, we would be very pure people indeed!

Truther

What about soft drinks like Coca Cola, and others, that contain a dangerous sweetener called Aspartame, and many other harmful ingredients? I don't think soft drinks contain alcohol, or tobacco, but would these drinks also be forbiddon?

the_new_mr

Well, looks like there's no need to start a few topic about then

It's a very long and complicated issue. I for one didn't know that non-alcoholic beer always had a small trace of alcohol. I just thought there was some that had small traces and others that had none at all. I enjoy the odd can of non-alcoholic beer myself.

My wife's husband (God rest his soul) was a big dude when it comes to religious issues. He was one of the heads of a sufi organisation. Honestly, I don't know much about him but I do know that once he asked for some non-alcoholic beer when visiting my family and my father informed him that there was 0.05% or 0.5% alcohol in it or something like that. Anyway, he said that it was okay since it was such a small amount.

Whether or not I'm not comfortable drinking non-alcoholic beer now, I'm not sure. But the point raised by Wibbs about fruit is a very good one.

And while writing this post, I decided to do a quick check on wikipedia to see if all non-alcoholic beers have alcohol in them. It seems they don't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-alcoholic_beer

And that article has a link to a very interesting article on the islamtoday.com website which seems to make sense.
http://islamtoday.com/showme2.cfm?cat_id=2&sub_cat_id=561

So, I think I feel a lot more comfortable now about drinking non-alcoholic beer whatever it's alcohol content. But, for the record, I don't like bananas that are too ripe. I prefer them nearly green. Useless piece of information for you there

blackthorn

newMR wrote:

My wife's husband (God rest his soul)

the_new_mr

WHOOOOPS!!!!

I meant to write my aunt's husband (God rest his soul).

I'm not speaking to you from beyond the grave

//Edit
Or maybe that could have been interpreted as my wife's former husband. It wasn't though. I've never been married

Truther

EDIT: Oh ok, lol

maitri

InFront wrote:

It is sometimes said if you were to walk into any supermarket you could trace something in everything that comes from possibly "doubtful" sources - be they industrial cleaners, extraction methods, shared production machinery with pork - it could be anything. Unlike n.a. beer, we don't really know. I don't think we should spend too much time worrying about it.

Good point!

InFront wrote:

If we as Muslims avoided haram in daily life as much as we avoid haram of the diet, we would be very pure people indeed!

the_new_mr

So, a family friend of ours gave us a gift of a box of Belgian chocolates about one and a half months ago but before deciding to try one of them, I thought I'd check the ingredients and, lo and behold, there it was: alcohol. It was number 15 on the ingredients list out of 21 items which means it must have been a particularly small amount. However, I still felt uncomfortable about it.

Then, the topic of what is okay and what isn't came up on this thread and I eventually became convinced that having one or two of these chocolates would be okay based on what was written on that islamtoday.com article. Wibbs' very good point of the overly ripe fruit also got me thinking.

So, tried two of them today and made a secret prayer under my breath to God to affirm to Him that it's not my intention to eat the chocolates for their (albeit small) amount of alcohol. In the end, they weren't very nice But at least now I know in case anyone offers me one in the future

Just before I ate one, the subject of chocolates with alcohol came up in the house and I think it's pretty safe to say that liquor chocolates (that is, chocolates with a large amount of liquid whiskey inside them) must surely be haram (forbidden) as they have a large amount in them. Can't see them being too nice anyway to be honest.