Thursday 17th of may and the nurses

PeakOutput

ooopppppppsssss

hit edit instead of quote and deleted everything


again........there is a thread already for discussing the rights and wrongs of the nurses strike.........

this thread is for if you hear about any strikes in beaumount next thursday please let me know here

Blush_01

My grandmother's been in hospital for almost 3 weeks now. The nurses strike hasn't effected her standard of care, nor have any of her surgeries been effected. If it happens that your appointment with a consultant (emm, since when are consultants nurses?) is effected, it'll hardly be BY the nurses, will it. If it happens that someone with an actual urgent problem which is more severe than yours (and they therefore need the consultant more than you) leads to your appointment being cancelled, will that also be the nurses fault?

GhostInTheRuins

It won't affect it all. I was staying in beaumont while the nurses were striking and there was no patient care compromise. It's all hype built up by the hse to show the nurses in a bad light imo. Don't worry about it

PeakOutput

Blush_01 wrote:

My grandmother's been in hospital for almost 3 weeks now. The nurses strike hasn't effected her standard of care, nor have any of her surgeries been effected. If it happens that your appointment with a consultant (emm, since when are consultants nurses?) is effected, it'll hardly be BY the nurses, will it.

i need to have an xray taken beforehand as far as I am aware the nurses do that

also according to my parents the consultant clinics are nurse run if they are not thats great but iv been told they are

If it happens that someone with an actual urgent problem which is more severe than yours (and they therefore need the consultant more than you) leads to your appointment being cancelled, will that also be the nurses fault?

now im no expert in what a maxio facial consultant deals with but i doubt there are that many dental emergencies tbh..............if he deals with other stuff and thats the cause of a cancelation i can fully accept that but what are the chances???? seriously

It won't affect it all. I was staying in beaumont while the nurses were striking and there was no patient care compromise. It's all hype built up by the hse to show the nurses in a bad light imo. Don't worry about it

fingers crossed

GhostInTheRuins

It is true that the nurses do the x-rays and are about in the outpatients when you see your consultants but when you get in there that you'll realise that it's all been blown out of proportion. The only thing that effects anything is their work to rule where they can't answer phones and stuff up in the wards. It especially won't effect the out-patients.

PeakOutput

D.T. Jesus wrote:

It is true that the nurses do the x-rays and are about in the outpatients when you see your consultants but when you get in there that you'll realise that it's all been blown out of proportion. The only thing that effects anything is their work to rule where they can't answer phones and stuff up in the wards. It especially won't effect the out-patients.

come to think of it ...work to rule....will i get a phone call if its cancelled????

GhostInTheRuins

PeakOutput wrote:

come to think of it ...work to rule....will i get a phone call if its cancelled????

Haha yeah you will. It's your consultants secretary that would call you not a nurse lol.

Mossy Monk

Heard one nurse on the radio this morning go on about how she only earns €44,000 a year. Only €44,000 a year, I am earning just over half of that and she wants the publics support. She really didn't do them any favours.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

DarkJager

The more I hear these nurses whinging about their pay (44,000 a year isn't enough for you?? Go **** yourself) the more I'm wishing humanity could be invincible to illness so we could fire all of these patethic whinging bastards...

Mrs_Doyle

Blush_01 wrote:

My grandmother's been in hospital for almost 3 weeks now. The nurses strike hasn't effected her standard of care, nor have any of her surgeries been effected.

Lucky Her! My granny was taken, by ambulance, to hospital last Saturday night, she arrived at 9.50pm and was examined by a doctor.
It was 3.30am before any one returned to check on her.
The woman is 83 years old, she was nervous and upset and wanted to go home. Every time we asked a nurse (nurses aid) when she would be attended to they told us she was next on the list.
She is still in hospital now and I would describe the level of care she has received as being sub standard - at best!

My sister went to our GP yesterday morning, at 9am, suffering with a sharp pain in her chest and ribs. He referred her to Holles Street hospital.
She waited for 3 hours only to be told that they didn't have the machine needed to carry out the examination.
She was then referred to Beaumont Hospital.
She arrived there at 3pm, and was examined by a nurse - SHE IS STILL WAITING IN THE A+E (18 HOURS LATER) AND HAS YET TO BE ATTENED TO BY A DOCTOR!!!!
She is 5 months pregnant, she is in pain, she is nervous and very, very upset, and has spent the last 18 hours in a cramped waiting room!!!!

At this moment in time I could quite happily see every single nurse being fired from there positions and black listed for the next 5 years.

(Obviously I realise that would not be practical or even possible, but I'm just trying to get explain how I feel about the nurses strike right now.)

tallaght01

If anyone is actually interested in debating the issues involved in the nurses work to rule, then why not have a look at the thread in the politics forum on the same issue, rather than throwing pointless anecdotes around in here, and blaming the nurses for 18 hour waits in A+E etc.

skywalker

Thats pretty horrible stuff Mrs D. Hope it all works out ok for you & yours.

Mrs_Doyle

tallaght01 wrote:

blaming the nurses for 18 hour waits in A+E etc.

Who would you blame? Who do you believe is at fault?

tallaght01

A+E waiting times are the result of a poor hospital infrastructure, and chronic understaffing, and the abuse of A+E by people who don't need to be there. It's the result of the fact that we haven't done enough in Ireland to tackle alcohol abuse, violence, smoking and obesity. It's a multifactorial problem. It's most certainly not the problems of the nurses or doctors or nurses aides, who are the ones keeping the system barely afloat. It's not like there's a whole world of nurses sitting on their asses in A+E drinking tea in the staffroom for hours on end whilst people are waiting a fortnight to be seen.

Mrs_Doyle

tallaght01 wrote:

A+E waiting times are the result of a poor hospital infrastructure, and chronic understaffing, and the abuse of A+E by people who don't need to be there. It's the result of the fact that we haven't done enough in Ireland to tackle alcohol abuse, violence, smoking and obesity. It's a multifactorial problem. It's most certainly not the problems of the nurses or doctors or nurses aides, who are the ones keeping the system barely afloat. It's not like there's a whole world of nurses sitting on their asses in A+E drinking tea in the staffroom for hours on end whilst people are waiting a fortnight to be seen.

I would have thought that a young pregnant woman would be a priority case. She was left sitting in a waiting room for 18 hours - that is wrong!!
That's 18 hours on her feet, or sitting in a plastic chair. Add to that the hours spent getting from our GP to Holles St, the 3 hour wait in Holles St, and the time travelling from Holles St to Beaumont.
That's 25 hours of great pain and discomfort.
I wouldn't be surprised if she came out of this ordeal feeling a damn site worse then she did to begin with.

I have no sympathy for the nurses, I do not support them in any way shape of form and I do blame them for a lot of the discomfort that my Nanny and Sister have suffered this week.

DemonOfTheFall

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

Who would you blame? Who do you believe is at fault?

Wow. Just wow. Near irresistable urge to say something to you that will get me banned. With logical powers like that I have to ask, have you finished your junior cert yet?

tallaght01

You're right, Demon, there's no need to say anyhting nasty. Mrs Doyle is angry. It's human nature to lash out at those who are easily identifiable with what you're angry at. People see nurses in A+E, so that's who they blame.

Pregnancy doesn't guarantee you urgency in Ireland. Sad but true. Having a life threatening illness is pretty much all that guarantees you a quick passage though A+E.

I remmeber when I did paeds A+E, my least fave part of the job was the hassle I would always get fromt he parents. They're all pissed at having to wait for ages. But we had to treat the sickest first. There is simply no other way around it. I've seen parents standing int he middle of waiting rooms screaming their heads off at no-one in particular because they are so angry. It's sad, but you have to ignore it and just plough on.

Everyone knows A+E waiting times are not the fault of nurses, but anger is a powerful emotion, and when a family memberis faced with the Irish A+E system in all it's glory, it's hard not to lash out.

Mrs_Doyle

Before this work to rule business I had an accident which involved attending the A+E in Beaumont, and to their credit, the staff were fast, efficient and pleasant.
Ever since the 'work to rule' I have heard nothing but horror stories from people unfortunate enough to have to attend hospital.

tallaght01

I think when you're calmer you'll realise that there have been A+E horror stories for a long long time, many much worse than the stories you have told. This has been happening since way before the work to rule I'm afraid.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

I would have thought that a young pregnant woman would be a priority case. She was left sitting in a waiting room for 18 hours - that is wrong!!

And yet what has this to do with the nurses working to rule? I have been hearing stories like these for a hell of a long time before the nurses have been on strike... You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

Mrs_Doyle

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote:

And yet what has this to do with the nurses working to rule? I have been hearing stories like these for a hell of a long time before the nurses have been on strike... You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

I have been on Boards for a while now and have yet to understand why people feel to need to insult someones opinion without good reason, or understanding of the factors that contributed to that opinion.

How can you say I have no clue? Why would you say that? I have spent the best part of the last week in various hospitals, I have witnessed the service, and have watched how poorly my Nanny and sister have been treated.

I can assure you, had you seen their pain and upset, had they been your relations, you would probably be as angry as I am right now - if not more so.

loz

Mossy Monk wrote:

Heard one nurse on the radio this morning go on about how she only earns €44,000 a year. Only €44,000 a year, I am earning just over half of that and she wants the publics support. She really didn't do them any favours.

I f only you had listened at school then maybe you would be earning more ?

monkeyfudge

tallaght01 wrote:

A+E waiting times are the result of a poor hospital infrastructure, and chronic understaffing, and the abuse of A+E by people who don't need to be there. It's the result of the fact that we haven't done enough in Ireland to tackle alcohol abuse, violence, smoking and obesity. It's a multifactorial problem. It's most certainly not the problems of the nurses or doctors or nurses aides, who are the ones keeping the system barely afloat. It's not like there's a whole world of nurses sitting on their asses in A+E drinking tea in the staffroom for hours on end whilst people are waiting a fortnight to be seen.

This is a very good summing up of the issues.

I've done some contract work for one of the hospitals mentioned in this thread and they way the place was run was ridiculous and I was only scratching the surface.

I'm lucky that the only time I've had to use their A&E I was pouring blood all over the floor off the waiting room so I was seen to straight away. Horrible hospital... Staff were excellent though...

Mossy Monk

loz wrote:

I f only you had listened at school then maybe you would be earning more ?

Hardy har har. You have no idea of how I did at school :rolleyes:.

sam34

D.T. Jesus wrote:

It is true that the nurses do the x-rays
.

Eh- no they dont. radiographers do the XRays

sam34

PeakOutput wrote:

i
now im no expert in what a maxio facial consultant deals with but i doubt there are that many dental emergencies tbh..............if he deals with other stuff and thats the cause of a cancelation i can fully accept that but what are the chances???? seriously
QUOTE]

Emergencies for a max-fac surgeon? things like reconstructing someones facial bones after theyve been smashed in a car crash/ fall from a horse/ building site injury/ mugging.....

PeakOutput

Emergencies for a max-fac surgeon? things like reconstructing someones facial bones after theyve been smashed in a car crash/ fall from a horse/ building site injury/ mugging.....

a google search basically said they are orthodontists but ill take you rword for it like i sadi if that s why its cancelled thats fine

also the last time i had an xray it was defo nurses doing it the radiographer then looked at it and said i was clear.............

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

I have been on Boards for a while now and have yet to understand why people feel to need to insult someones opinion without good reason, or understanding of the factors that contributed to that opinion.

How can you say I have no clue? Why would you say that? I have spent the best part of the last week in various hospitals, I have witnessed the service, and have watched how poorly my Nanny and sister have been treated.

I can assure you, had you seen their pain and upset, had they been your relations, you would probably be as angry as I am right now - if not more so.

Because you obviously have no idea of what you're talking about, you're just blaming the nurses working to rule for every problem the health system has been having for years... So you think because nurses are not answering phones or using computers, things they are not supposed to be doing any way, are causing the huge delays and shortage of beds in hospitals? Do you not think the nurses would be giving an even higher standard of attention if they didnt have to deal with all these distractions?
Tallagh01 has already done a great point of summing just about everything wrong with A&E and you dont seem to have even read his/her post.

timmywex

the nurses are fast losing public opinion and the public are against them on pay, but most would like to see shorter hours for them i think, if they up their action nexdt week, people are just going to hate them more, and patients WILL DIEas a result of all the nurses being outside!!

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Well not all the nurses are going to be outside.... There still going to be nurses inside the hospital working as normal... They're not going to let innocent people die! God will you people stop believing what you read in the tabloids...

GhostInTheRuins

timmywex wrote:

patients WILL DIEas a result of all the nurses being outside!!

No they won't.

PeakOutput

THIS IS NOT A ARE THE NURSES RIGHT OR WRONG THREAD

theres a perfectly good one around already


im sure youll carry on regardless but just thought id reiterate

timmywex

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0510/nurses.html

my interpretation of that is most of the nurses wont be inside and there will defo be reduced cover, i can easily see a problem occuring on one of the wards...

Wishbone Ash

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

How can you say I have no clue? Why would you say that?

He/she probably said it because you posted that your sister had been waiting 18 hours to see a doctor and then you blame the nursing staff for the lengthly wait!

timmywex wrote:

patients WILL DIE as a result of all the nurses being outside!!

Using your logic would mean that patients are at risk 12 hours each night when there is no industrial action. Night staffing levels are maintained during work stoppages.

D.T. Jesus wrote:

It is true that the nurses do the x-rays

:rolleyes: Radiographers/radiologists do X-Rays.

gandalf

Mrs. Doyle I understand what you are going through. Just over 2 years ago my Father had a major stroke attended A&E and only got into a bed after 2 days and us pulling every string we had within reach. In his time in A&E he was left for hours in his own **** on a trolley. When he made it to a ward it was discovered he also had a bleed on his brain. He died after 8 months fighting for his life and 2 doses of MRSA. The only people in that whole time I had any respect for were the nurses who went above and beyond the call of duty most times understaffed.

Last year my mother had a very serious illness and was 3 weeks in hospital via the brand new A&E in Vincents, she still sat on a trolley for 3 days, critically ill and again when she did make it to a ward the same thing was apparent that the nurses were excellent.

The problem is simple there are not enough beds in the system, the HSE is administratively bloated and needs to be trimmed down (by that I mean they need to fire alot of wasters rapidally). The nurses strike may be causing minor problems but I believe the HSE are blowing it out of proportion to mask their own significant deficiencies. Look towards the gutless twits who have been in Government for the last 10 years as well if you want to find people to blame.

Wishbone Ash

gandalf wrote:

the HSE are blowing it out of proportion to mask their own significant deficiencies

Yes, instead of managing hospitals, the HSE instructed senior managers to spend their time highlighting negative aspects to the 'work to rule' and to try to find a dissatisfied patient and emphasise that patients story to the media.

gandalf

And those are the managers that actually bother to work and not the twats that got guaranteed jobs for life.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0104/health.html

I thought when organisations merged jobs were duplicated and thus people were made redundant ?

Therefore you would cut costs, thus have more cash for more beds and associated services thus reducing waitings lists, trolleys queues etc. Its not difficult it just takes people to take control.

The age of a job for life in the Civil Service should end, they have wages on par or in some cases surpassing the private sector. They normally have better holidays and conditions its time that they are subject to the same market forces that us in the private sector are.

SimpleSam06

gandalf wrote:

The age of a job for life in the Civil Service should end, they have wages on par or in some cases surpassing the private sector. They normally have better holidays and conditions its time that they are subject to the same market forces that us in the private sector are.

But we can't do that, they'd just hold the country (and the people who pay them, the taxpayers) to ransom by striking again! Honestly, the nurses have duffed it up utterly this time, public opinion is entirely against them. The last straw will be when arse falls completely out of the increasingly dodgy housing market, and the govt has to push up taxes to compensate. That will be interesting...

gandalf

Why not, if they strike fire them and I am talking about the Admin wasters in the HSE and general civil servants not nurses btw. The nurses have a point and I agree with them.

sam34

PeakOutput wrote:

a google search basically said they are orthodontists but ill take you rword for it like i sadi if that s why its cancelled thats fine

also the last time i had an xray it was defo nurses doing it the radiographer then looked at it and said i was clear.............

Nah, nurses dont take Xrays. the radiographers do, then they - the radiographers - may have a "quick" look at it to see if theres anything grossly abnormal, but they are not qualified to properly read xrays, thay are technicians. the xrays are read by radiologists, who are doctors who specialise in radiology.

a friend of mine whos a max-fac surgeon was highly insulted to hear himself being described as an orthodontist! max fac surgeons are doubbly qualified, in medicine and dentistry and undergo seemingly interminable post grad training. they are called in when there is surgery involving the facial and jaw bones etc.

FlutterinBantam

tallaght01 wrote:

A+E waiting times are the result of a poor hospital infrastructure, and chronic understaffing, and the abuse of A+E by people who don't need to be there. It's the result of the fact that we haven't done enough in Ireland to tackle alcohol abuse, violence, smoking and obesity. It's a multifactorial problem. It's most certainly not the problems of the nurses or doctors or nurses aides, who are the ones keeping the system barely afloat. It's not like there's a whole world of nurses sitting on their asses in A+E drinking tea in the staffroom for hours on end whilst people are waiting a fortnight to be seen.

My bollox!!! its largley a result of the intransigent attitude of people in the HSE.

You people work there, get a fcukin grip and DO something about the kip.

I'm sick to death of people in the HSE blaming everyone else for the woes that are endemic throughout the system.

You have people every day on here quoting this that and the other about the HSE. Nobody will move in this impasse.Everybody blames the other Dept/Speciality/process.

There is Fcukin Millions being pumped into the HSE, get off your lazy arses and earn it!!!!

tallaght01

FlutterinBantam wrote:

My bollox!!! its largley a result of the intransigent attitude of people in the HSE.

You people work there, get a fcukin grip and DO something about the kip.

I'm sick to death of people in the HSE blaming everyone else for the woes that are endemic throughout the system.

You have people every day on here quoting this that and the other about the HSE. Nobody will move in this impasse.Everybody blames the other Dept/Speciality/process.

There is Fcukin Millions being pumped into the HSE, get off your lazy arses and earn it!!!!

If you're happy to live in a world where chronic underinvestment in health promotion/drug+alcohol abuse services etc don't contribute to the A+E problems then that's fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion.

I'd be interested to hear what we should be doing instead of sitting on our "lazy arses".
I don't think I'm lazy. I'm rostered for a 98hour week from monday, and did the same last week.
But your thoughts on how exactly the junior staff that work in A+E could change the system so radically? even despite all the "millions" that are pumped into the system

PeakOutput

sam34 wrote:

Nah, nurses dont take Xrays. the radiographers do, then they - the radiographers - may have a "quick" look at it to see if theres anything grossly abnormal, but they are not qualified to properly read xrays, thay are technicians. the xrays are read by radiologists, who are doctors who specialise in radiology.

a friend of mine whos a max-fac surgeon was highly insulted to hear himself being described as an orthodontist! max fac surgeons are doubbly qualified, in medicine and dentistry and undergo seemingly interminable post grad training. they are called in when there is surgery involving the facial and jaw bones etc.

i could honestly be mistaking radiographer with radiologist i was told go get an xray and dont leave till "whoever the proper person is" sees it as it could be serious and they will know. two young enough ladies did the x-ray so in my ignorance i assumed they were nurses

sam34

PeakOutput wrote:

i could honestly be mistaking radiographer with radiologist i was told go get an xray and dont leave till "whoever the proper person is" sees it as it could be serious and they will know. two young enough ladies did the x-ray so in my ignorance i assumed they were nurses

i was just clarifying the issue, am keen not to give the nurses credit for things that they dont do

FlutterinBantam

tallaght01 wrote:

If you're happy to live in a world where chronic underinvestment in health promotion/drug+alcohol abuse services etc don't contribute to the A+E problems then that's fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion.

I'd be interested to hear what we should be doing instead of sitting on our "lazy arses".
I don't think I'm lazy. I'm rostered for a 98hour week from monday, and did the same last week.
But your thoughts on how exactly the junior staff that work in A+E could change the system so radically? even despite all the "millions" that are pumped into the system

The only world I'm happy to live in is one where everybody pulls their weight.

I'm quite sure you work extremely hard and so do many others in the HSE.

This brings to the nub of the problem..... vested interests.

At the top, nobody is prepared to play ball.. consultants/doctors/nurses/operative staff/local management..

What we have we hold is the mantra, and until there is agreement in the round that the whole caboosh needs change,then I am not happy to be taxed up the hole to pay more to people whoi are already well paid.

I make no apology for saying that.

In the current situation ,in my opinion,you have a Union leader who should have seen common sense from the start and used the agreed vehicle of IR .

Now he is locked in and cannot find a way out.

As a stakeholder and paymaster in this debacle,i rightly uphold my responsibility to critisise the parties involved,not individuals.

get real and get a bit of sense .

tallaght01

FlutterinBantam wrote:

The only world I'm happy to live in is one where everybody pulls their weight.

I'm quite sure you work extremely hard and so do many others in the HSE.

This brings to the nub of the problem..... vested interests.

At the top, nobody is prepared to play ball.. consultants/doctors/nurses/operative staff/local management..

What we have we hold is the mantra, and until there is agreement in the round that the whole caboosh needs change,then I am not happy to be taxed up the hole to pay more to people whoi are already well paid.

I make no apology for saying that.

In the current situation ,in my opinion,you have a Union leader who should have seen common sense from the start and used the agreed vehicle of IR .

Now he is locked in and cannot find a way out.

As a stakeholder and paymaster in this debacle,i rightly uphold my responsibility to critisise the parties involved,not individuals.

get real and get a bit of sense .

My apologies for not having the ability to "get real" about the situation. I've obviously no idea what the A+E problems are and what could possibly the root causes. The number of attendences related to the issues I've described above must be some kind of coincidence, or statistical anomaly.

Having said that, I'm glad you're right, because that means that the introduction of the new consultant contract, coupled with facing down the nurses, will result in a resolution of the A+E crisis. Phew.

FlutterinBantam

Good man, glad you agree.

Now what you and all the other hard workers in the HSE need,is the balls to tell the union dudes that ,hey,get off the frikken high podium and look at the big picture. Cop yourselves on.

you see the old adage in this situation is never truer.

All it needs for evil to triumph over good is for the good to do nothing.

You will always get the auld warhorses splutterin and shoutin about being "downtrodden" "not valued" all articulate and verbal and will complain and bitch till the cows come home.

The same punters will go sick/use the system/abuse the system/garner the most advantage for the least productivity/swing the lead/know their entitlements but not their responsibilities.... I could go on;)

Your task ,should you accept it is to root out those barsters,and free up the system,for hard working professionals like yourself.

Now am I right ,or am i right:D

tallaght01

FlutterinBantam wrote:

Good man, glad you agree.







Now am I right ,or am i right:D

Well, to be honest, I'e never ever heard such misinformed opinion. But it's your right to have it. I guess all we can do to find out of you're right is to sit back and wait for the new contracts to start and the nurses to be told they're not getting the conditions they want, and all will be well with A+E.

Whilst I don't agree with you, I admire your balls for posting that in public :P

Nightwish

When the nurses withdraw their services entirely, will the union be paying them? If so the INO will be bankrupt in a day.

Sangre

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

I would have thought that a young pregnant woman would be a priority case. She was left sitting in a waiting room for 18 hours - that is wrong!!

In fairness a young pregnant woman wouldn't be a priority case, especially if she is conscious and able to move about. This is the A+E, priority cases are when people are about to DIE. That's car crashes, stab victims, heart attacks, serious accidents etc.,