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Just started watching wrestling again
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10-05-2007 7:19pm#1
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i also recently started watch WWE again
its grand now, I couldn't watch a live event
i have to sky plus it
i hate women wrestling:rolleyes:
i stopped looking at WWF after what happened to Bret Hart
Bret ... the best there was, the best there is and the best that will ever be
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{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote:i also recently started watch WWE again
its grand now, I couldn't watch a live event
i have to sky plus it
i hate women wrestling:rolleyes:
i stopped looking at WWF after what happened to Bret Hart
Bret ... the best there was, the best there is and the best that will ever be
Bret Hart truly was a great. Such a shame how it ended for him.0 -
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gimmick wrote:Nonsense. People are creaming all over Cena Vs Umaga, and Cena Vs HBK at Rumble and Mania respectively. Both of these matches were truly awful. Nothing will convince me otherwise. Cena HBK at Raw is a different story. They needed to do that match to redeem themselves after a ****ty WM Main event.
Truly awful? Someone's been hanging around the ROH smark forums a little too much. The most respected wrestling commentators have commended these matches. If they had happened in ROH you'd be fauning all over them.gimmick wrote:As for the best in 2007 being WWE, thats just plain wrong, even TNA have had as many good matches as WWE thus far.
Name one match from TNA that was as good.gimmick wrote:The best wrestling, that I have seen so far in 2007 is in ROH, with some amazing matches involving Roderick Strong, The Briscoes, Morishima, Samoa Joe, Nigel McGuinness. Hell, Ive seen more good matches in Pro Wrestling NOAH in 2007, and i dont even watch Japan all that often.
Please. We were told by the ROH smarks a few years ago that CM Punk was the greatest wrestler in the world yet he's not had one truly stellar match in WWE yet.
Talented wrestlers? Sure. The best? Hardly. ROH is the wrestling equivalent of Ronaldo. A lot of hype but if you want the cream of the crop you look elsewhere.
Funny how guys like Monty Brown get lauded in TNA yet they come to the big leagues and end up being as green as grass.validreasoning! wrote:Give up right here joe, seriously, MrNiceGuy needs to change his name to MrI'mAlwaysRight. You'll discover this in time.
Ooh someone sounds bitter. VR, you sound like you're having indigestion problems from all that humble pie you were forced to eat.joe123 wrote:Finlay is good but he looks to old to be anything now. William Regal? Are you serious?! Ha!
Yeah I'm not going to bother debating with you, mate. Keep supporting wrestling though. Good luck. 0 -
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Vince135792003 wrote:Well then your not listening to him or reading his newsletter. He's talked about ROH extremely highly.
He's given a load of their matches very high ratings. I wish I was up on the product and be able to tell you which ones but I'm afraid I can't.
Alvarez is less gushing towards ROH but on the whole for the past 6 months he's been covering it, he's generally been very positive towards it, especially Bryan Danielson.
Also Bruce Mitchell on the torch, said the dragon gate 6 man match from ROH was the best match he's ever seen.
EDIT, from wikipedia: Wrestling journalist Dave Meltzer of the Wrestling Observer has given full five-star ratings to several ROH matches, including the Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk sixty-minute bout from Joe vs. Punk II on October 16, 2004; Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi from Joe vs. Kobashi on October 1, 2005; and Do FIXER (Dragon Kid, Genki Horiguchi and Ryo Saito) vs. Blood Generation (CIMA, Naruki Doi and Masato Yoshino) from Supercard of Honor on March 31, 2006. At the time of Joe vs. Punk II, Meltzer had not rated any wrestling match in the US the full five-stars since 1997.
That's all well and good but none of those matches are from this year. Has Meltzer raved about any from this year? Not to my knowledge.
Even I as a non-ROH fan went out of my way to check out some of the great ROH matches such as the Joe-Punk trilogy but I've not heard talk of great matches from ROH at all. Maybe just maybe it's because WWE are putting on the best wrestling in '07?Double C wrote:How come when someone states that their personal preference is ROH, the word smark gets thrown around. Aren't you just a WWE smark?
I don't turn my nose up at good wrestling. The word smark probably gets used often when people come out with farcical views that the Cena/Umaga and Cena/HBK matches were "truly awful".Double C wrote:Well why don't you state your own opinions not rely on what your buddy Dave Meltzer says.
Meltzer's not my buddy but he is someone who most of the ROH fans treat with respect on account of him giving ROH their props as Vince touched on above. My own opinions have been stated plenty of times.Double C wrote:I'm not going to get into an argument about whether the Cena Michaels match was better than Joe Morishima or anything, that's apples and oranges, but ROH, and other indies for that matter, have put on matches of equal, better quality. Worse too of course. When they happen, people like gimmick and I come on here and tell everyone, if others check them out, good for them. Maybe you should too.
As I said above I don't turn my nose up at good wrestling and in the past I have checked out ROH's matches. I wouldn't regard ROH's matches as "truly awful" as it would be insulting to people's intelligence.Double C wrote:Christian Joe was terrific in my opinion. It was a solid example of ferocious challenger getting outdone by the cocky heel.
It was good but you really think it was as good as WWE's efforts?Double C wrote:When your stuck in the 3rd rate show fighting glorified jobbers every week its kind of tough to pull out a 5 star match.
No one mentioned having a 5 star match but he hasn't had any matches of real note in WWE, has he? Hell even Test had an Extreme Rules match with Van Dam that got people talking!Double C wrote:CM Punk has the potential to steal shows if given the chance.
Yeah if only he got the chance to showcase his talents (Leaving aside Survivor Series, December to Dismember, Wrestlemania 23 etc...).Double C wrote:Besides, who said he's the greatest wrestler? Plenty of people have been on here over the year or so that I've been posting saying he's good, he has potential, charisma etc. He's far from the greatest wrestler, he's no Kenta Kobashi. But he has had a 5 star match, acclaimed by Meltzer himself. Cena hasn't.
Fair enough but Cena has had four 4 star matches this year by my count and that's more than most in the world yet ROH fans seem to regard Cena as the Antichrist of wrestling. I would say Cena has had the best match of the year so far on a show broadcast around the world which is something Punk and the vastly overrated Kobashi can't say.Double C wrote:Who won both player of the year awards this year?
I'm not suggesting Ron's not talented (I am a Utd fan) but he's not the world's best as the Milan game showed. Reality is Kaka to quote Dunphy and in wrestling, Reality is Shawn Michaels.Double C wrote:Given both companies resources, in my opinion, ROH is by far more impressive than WWE. It is a minor league, but a minor league that people give a sh*t about. I for one would definitely prefer to support and give my money to ROH, and I'm not alone there.
It's a minor league that some people give a sh*t about. Obviously a lot of the TNA contracted wrestlers aren't too enamoured with it. Let's see how many buys they do.
The thing is ROH fans will watch the WWE product whereas it's rarely vice-versa with the majority of WWE fans. Reminds me of the time Punk signed his WWE contract on the ROH belt and all the ROH die-hards in the crowd told him "you'll be wrestling Funaki!", "you'll be doing the Masterlock challenge" etc. Oh how knowledgeable they were about the WWE product which was supposedly second-best to ROH!Double C wrote:I'm asking for it now, isn't that right VR! MNG, most of the time I agree with you but recently you have irritating me, and others, in these forums, putting your own opinion across stronger, and not heeding what others say. You have to remember it's peoples opinions they are giving here, they don't say what they do as if it was fact.
I thought I've always been irritating? Let's face it, who haven't I pissed off on this place?!
I do respect the opinions of people but lately I feel some people have been making some truly ridiculous comments.0 -
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Mr.Nice Guy wrote:Ooh someone sounds bitter. VR, you sound like you're having indigestion problems from all that humble pie you were forced to eat.
Not by a little smark on a board who bases his opinion as fact, rather than doing his research, and acknowledging actual facts. At first i thought it was just me, but it seems i'm obviously not the one who has this issue with you. And when it's pointed out, you feel that, for some reason or other (probably your post count), you talk down to and get all arrogant to other posters because they don't agree with you.
Like typical message boards, i agree with some posts, and disagree with some. And usually in the case of the latter, it can be rationally discussed with both parties usually listening to reason, but with you, it's a case of "i'm always right, fact! And you clearly don't know what you're talking about!"
Which is why i've no f*cking time for you anymore
Most of us provide discussion, you on the other hand, just provide argument
VR!0 -
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Fozzy wrote:There's not to be any personal insults thrown around, I don't want it descending to where I have to ban someone
Where was the personal insult exactly? All i did was say that i've no time for him and explain why. I didn't call him any names. I thought i was quite civil to be honest
VR!0 -
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validreasoning! wrote:Not by a little smark on a board who bases his opinion as fact, rather than doing his research, and acknowledging actual facts. At first i thought it was just me, but it seems i'm obviously not the one who has this issue with you. And when it's pointed out, you feel that, for some reason or other (probably your post count), you talk down to and get all arrogant to other posters because they don't agree with you.
LOL, If anyone here bases their opinions as fact it's you. Let's take a look at this exchange from the "10 reasons to hate Vince McMahon thread" on your view that Triple H had not botched his pedigree on Garner...Mr.Nice Guy wrote:This is what is known as your opinion. My opinion, and presumably the opinion of people who make vids on wrestling botches which includes that move, is that it was a botch. I hope my comment about you being learned about wrestling hasn't gone to your head.validreasoning! wrote:Most people who make vids on botches have about as much insider knowledge as yourself and i, which in turn, doesn't count for sh*t. As i said, by the looks of it, the recipient of that move was equally to blame, and thats not my opinion, thats what the actual footage LOOKS like, try all you wan't, but you can't dispute it.
Apparently we can't dispute what you say and everything that you say must be taken as Gospel. Sorry but I disagree.validreasoning! wrote:Which is why i've no f*cking time for you anymore
Most of us provide discussion, you on the other hand, just provide argument
I really don't care if you have time for me. You seem to have some worrying temper problems.validreasoning! wrote:Where was the personal insult exactly? All i did was say that i've no time for him and explain why. I didn't call him any names. I thought i was quite civil to be honest.
Well you've referred to me as an "ass" and a "mutant" in the recent past so you can see why Fozzy might be concerned.
Funny then how you feel you are the one to provide discussion whereas I just provide arguments! Funny stuff.0 -
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Fozzy wrote:That's just one person's opinion. If you look at this thread, which was posted after the 60 minute match, you can see that the majority of ROH fans have given Cena credit for his ability, definitely moreso than a lot of WWE fans have. ROH fans and anti-WWE fans are not the same people.
Well to their credit many do give Cena his due but the thread is called 'Could Cena work in ROH' and if you read on, for example to page 3, you see the kind of thing that I'm more familiar with:All of this is ridiculous. Cena is a decent wrestler who can do the fundamentals as well as anyone, but that is about it. He has been too souped up on sports entertainment to ever come back. If Matt Hardy was unable to work in ROH, Cena doesn't have a shot.
All of Cena's 'great' matches everyone talks about are matches where the other guy carried Cena through it. Michaels carried Cena last night, Umaga carried him at RR, and Edge carried him all last year. Like I said, pretty good fundamentals, but nothing ecceptional, and certainly nothing anyone should pay to see.
In ROH: Solid Mid carder...BJ Whitmer level.
This is the kind of BS I'm talking about. Even some of the ROH fans acknowledge the unnecesary hatred he faces from most of the ROH fans:I'd say probably not considering most fans wouldn't even give him a chance. However, I love Cena and I think he'd be a great mid-card talent.
Another guy:People hate on him for absolutely no reason, and most haven't actually seen him work a match since 2005.
See what I mean? I'm not going to tar ALL fans with the same brush but it appears to me that most ROH fans despise the guy for no good reason.validreasoning! wrote:Well given the fact that i referred to ALL ECW fans as mutants, so that wasn't a direct insult,
Er, no. What you actually said was:validreasoning! wrote:Again, given books and shoot interviews from those THAT WERE THERE, as opposed to an opinion of an ECW mutant fan who thinks his word is gospel, i'll have no problem on which side i'll pick. No offence.
That is a direct insult but don't worry I'm a big boy and I can handle it.validreasoning! wrote:as for the former, i said you acted like one, not that you were one.
Again you said:validreasoning! wrote:i'm just claiming that my explanation makes more sense, which it does. As opposed to your Triple H hating ass
Such hostility!
validreasoning! wrote:Proof that you do actually have problems reading what i type, which as you'd say "funny stuff", considering that you actually quote em!
As you'd say... keep up!
VR!
Yeah OK, see above. Clearly you have as much time for me as I do for you. I'm sure we'll both manage.0 -
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gimmick wrote:Would it be okay for me to call MNG a WWE fanboy Smark as his opinion differs greatly from mine?
If that's what you think, sure.gimmick wrote:The reason I felt Umaga Cena was truly awful was because it was a basic hardcore match. I do not like hardcore matches, rarely have I enjoyed one. The reason I felt HBK Cena I was truly awful was because it was meant to be the main event of WM. It was a poor effort by both, and Cenas blatant no sell pissed me off no end. Wow, see that, I made my own judgement on 2 matches without listening to other opinions to influence. Some that you, MNG, are still very prone to doing.
You think other opinions influence my own? After every PPV I watch I send in my thoughts to the main wrestling websites, plus this forum I might add, without having checked out what other people have said. It just turns out that the most respected wrestling minds agree with me whereas...well, I don't think I've read anybody besides ROH/TNA die-hards suggest Michaels/Cena at WM23 was "truly awful". But hey, you think what you like.gimmick wrote:As for better, or at least as good as, TNA matches, well Joe Vs Christian, Daniels Vs Sabin, Daniels Vs Lynn to name but 3.
You must be joking? Surely? A case can be made for the first one but the other two? Come on.gimmick wrote:Why is it BS? So, they are discussing whther they like Cena or not, and some have offered opinions as to how he would fit in ROH. Why is that wrong? Are you suddenly a smark if you dont like Cena?
It was BS based on the laughably bad argument put forward to support it. The guy I quoted said Cena had been "too souped up on sports entertainment to ever come back" ignoring the fact that two "suped up sports entertainment" wrestlers had put on a near 60 minute wrestling clinic which most in the wrestling world were raving about.
He also went on to suggest that Cena had been carried to every good match he's been in (surely it takes two to tango?) and that had he been in ROH, wait for it - he'd be a solid mid carder along the lines of BJ Whitmer (who?)
Yes gimmick, in my mind it is BS to suggest that the most charismatic wrestler of modern times, who has had by my count four critically acclaimed matches this year, and who is adored by many fans the world over, would amount to just a mid-card talent in a promotion which is in the minor leagues of pro wrestling and which, by my guess, is known by at most around 5% of wrestling fans worldwide.gimmick wrote:The reason for this is very simple. WWE books short matches 99% of the time. Not even HBK, Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit earned the reputations off very short matches like the ones Punk has been put in so far. RThe great WWE matches have gone on for 15+ minutes, that is where these guys excelled. Punk has not been given this oppurtunity just yet. he will prove soon enough whether the indy hype surrounding him is justified or not. Personally I think he will prove it, as having seen alot of his indy match, he impressed the hell out of me every time. Oh, but there I go again being smarkish.
Is smarkish another word for forgetful? I seem to recall CM Punk being placed in a big match at Survivor Series, the main event of December to Dismember and the MITB match at Wrestlemania 23. Did he blow anyone away with his performances? Did he get the wrestling world buzzing? No. Didn't Shelton Benjamin for example do just that in his first two MITB matches? Yes.
The majority of Punk's matches have been short but that doesn't explain why all his matches seem to go exactly the same way. Most wrestlers have signature moves for their finish but most of Punk's matches have been the same old story throughout - kicks, clothesline, bulldog, maybe a clothesline off the top rope if we're lucky. Hardly stellar stuff.
And it's worth noting that the guy has been given longer matches on other programs. He had a match with Kennedy on Smackdown I recall prior to WM23 and if anything, Kennedy looked the more impressive.b.ie polar wrote:So, yes, I am agreeing with you in that I don't think he has had any stellar matches, but I disagree with the inference that this automatically disqualifies him from being "the greatest wrestler in the world". The reasons why I disagree are contained in my earlier post.
Well I am of the view that if you are not putting on stellar matches then you ought to be 'automatically disqualified' from being labelled the best wrestler in the world. A 5 minute Shawn Michaels match is going to deliver way more than a 5 minute CM Punk match. Do you dispute that?b.ie polar wrote:But just because you've seen these comments before doesn't mean you can dismiss them every time as coming from ROH smarks.
I don't think I've done it every time.b.ie polar wrote:And so what if not everyone likes Cena as much as you?
But this is a discussion forum. If there's a difference in opinion between people what's the problem in, you know...discussing it? 0 -
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