Who supports FF or FG?

cavedave

Roughly 2/3 of people vote for FG and FF.
The policies and viewpoints of these parties are both moderately authoritarian right wing. http://www.politicalcompass.org/ireland
I and others I have asked have yet to find anyone who supports this view when tested. http://www.politicalcompass.org/questionnaire

Can any FF or FG supporters post how they score in this test?
I am not saying the moderately authoritarian right wing view is wrong but I would like people you support these parties to at least believe in their viewpoint.

PH01

cavedave wrote:

Roughly 2/3 of people vote for FG and FF.
The policies and viewpoints of these parties are both moderately authoritarian right wing.

I disagree.
FF and FG are, or would like to see themselves as, centralist parties. And so too are the PDs if they are honest with themselves.
Labour are just slightly left of center.
While SF and the Greens are leftist parties.

Khannie

I'd love to see some others take the test. Like cavedave, I've yet to meet anyone who actually scores to the right. As I said in another thread, I tested the test to make sure it was reasonably possible to score right wing, and it definitely is.

PH: FF and FG are right of centre, but right none the less (IMO anyway).

edit: For what it's worth, I scored:
Economic Left/Right: -1.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.72

cavedave

I've yet to meet anyone who actually scores to the right.

I score to the right and know many people that do. I have yet to meet anyone who score non libertarian to the right though.

Victor Meldrew

Just did the report and i'm bang on centre leaning towards libertarian (but only a bit). Which is what I'd expect being a FG voter. Note, I think you'll find most FG and FF voters landing on the same or similar turf. It's not a belief issue, just the standard to which we hold our public representitives that distinguishes the parties.

Funny, I'm considered a bit right wing on many issues, but the questions in the survey were a bit "bland". I'd also be very skeptical of any survey which cites Robert Mugabe as having anything resembling a coherent, measurable political belief structure. Mugabe's a power mad kleptomaniac thug. end of story.

Khannie

Well...I'm glad some people are actually scoring to the right. Maybe it's a reflection of the people that I know that I haven't found people that score right wing.

Victor Meldrew wrote:

It's not a belief issue, just the standard to which we hold our public representitives that distinguishes the parties.

Can you elaborate on that a bit?

Victor

Khannie wrote:

Can you elaborate on that a bit?

FF are a purely populist party that will do pretty much anything to get elected. They are slow to rebuke errant members and reek of dishonesty, both in their promises and actions.

FG tend to be a bit more consistent, don't mind voicing the unpopular but right thing to do and are a lot more honest.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Victor Meldrew

Victor wrote:

FF are a purely populist party that will do pretty much anything to get elected. They are slow to rebuke errant members and reek of dishonesty, both in their promises and actions.

FG tend to be a bit more consistent, don't mind voicing the unpopular but right thing to do and are a lot more honest.

Thanks Victor, couldn't have put it better, and summs up the FG / FF divide.

luckat

A poll would be interesting. I don't support Fianna Fail - I don't want my country to be run by crooks. And I don't support Fine Gael - it would be like a whole government of National Teachers.

Khannie

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Hahaha. Maybe. You're still pretty moderate though and probably not /that/ far off my views. I am only mildly unshaven. I think to be a real beardie, you need to be more than -3,-3.

Victor

Victor wrote:

FF are a purely populist party that will do pretty much anything to get elected.

FG tend to be a bit more consistent, don't mind voicing the unpopular but right thing to do and are a lot more honest.

Fianna Fail are a more popular party and usually get elected. Power corrupts.

Fine Gael are not as popular, usually in opposition, and accordingly are not really worth corrupting...

The_Minister

Deleted User wrote:

Fianna Fail are a more popular party and usually get elected. Power corrupts.

Fine Gael are not as popular, usually in opposition, and accordingly are not really worth corrupting...

Nail. Head. In councils where FG controlled the balence of power they were just as bad. Its just that FF tended to be in power more often.

cavedave

So still no one in the same quater as FG,FF? Does anyone else find this odd?

FF and FG are, or would like to see themselves as, centralist parties. And so too are the PDs if they are honest with themselves.
Labour are just slightly left of center.
While SF and the Greens are leftist parties.

It does not really matter what parties see themselves as so much as what their policies actually are.
If the vast majority of people are libertarian why do 66% of us vote for an authoritarian party?



Economic Left/Right: 2.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.41

opa01_2000

I got an economic of -5.38 and Social of -5.69 and I have a beard. This leaves me more libertarian than the socialists.

How I would like to regulate Ryanair !!!

nollaig

ended up round the same place as Gandhi, so im happy:)

mikemac

Just took it.
Pfft.....you're all weak,soft liberals. .

Economic Left/Right: 0.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 5.08

JPA

I got:

Economic Left/Right: -4.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.10

Am I a hippy?

cavedave

Just took it.
Pfft.....you're all weak,soft liberals. .

Economic Left/Right: 0.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 5.08

Finally someone that thinks in the same quater as 66% of people vote.
The only explanation I have for this is that politicians want power and thus authority. This makes them more likely to be authoritarian.
This still does not explain why people vote for policies about personal freedom they do not support though.

mikemac

Cavedave, I think you'll be struggling to find more people with authoritarian views on boards.

I'm going to make a sweeping generalisation here but I'd imagine the majority of people on boards are young (<40) and have fairly modern and liberal views.
No poll on boards will come remotly close to the real election result

cavedave

Cavedave, I think you'll be struggling to find more people with authoritarian views on boards.

I'm going to make a sweeping generalisation here but I'd imagine the majority of people on boards are young (<40) and have fairly modern and liberal views.
No poll on boards will come remotly close to the real election result

Fair point about boards not being a random sample.
As for modern and liberal, the ideas of the guys who signed the American declaration of Independence or of Thomas Paine, Bastiat before that are hardly particularly modern. If by liberal you mean left wing (welfare state etc) that is not what I am refering to either as I do know many right wing libertarians.

Boston

Economic Left/Right: 2.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.31

Meh, the entire survey is bull. Theres no neutral option which would probably be the most popular option, and also people tend not to be consistently right or left complete. I was gearing up to be tatcher untill it hit questions relating to sex. Futher more it doesn't take into account how much people care about a topic. I may strongly agree with two things, but really only one or none are election issues for me, or take priority in my personal life.

Victor Meldrew

cavedave wrote:

If by liberal you mean left wing (welfare state etc) that is not what I am refering to either as I do know many right wing libertarians.

Fair point, I'd classify myself as a right wing libertatian but I land on labour's spot :eek:

the questions are too fuzzy and non specific vis a vis policy and legislation

Gillie

Economic Left/Right: -4.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.69

???

BeatNikDub

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.85

Apparently im a libertarian.....

It doesnt explain the outcome much though

Glenbhoy

Economic Left/Right: -2.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.15

No beard, but a heavy stubble!

jem

-0.63, -1.03 staunch FF voter.

athtrasna

Am flummoxed I got

Economic Left/Right: -5.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.41

But I've always considered myself to be just right of centre because of my law and order beliefs - now I'm practically Ghandi? Weird!!

Stark

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -3.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.10

It seems I'm quite close to Ghandi on the chart (yay) but also somewhat between the Socialists and the Greens (nooo).

Dar

Economic Left/Right: -2.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.46

Quite odd since I can't stand the Greens or Labour and find myself agreeing more with the ideology of the PDs (if only I trusted them they'd have my vote without any hesitation ).

The_Minister

I'm in FF or FG:eek:
I would be economically liberal ans socially liberal (PD).
That questionnaire is flawed.

They asked me if my rights were being excessively curbed for counter-terrorism. The answer is no, because I'm not american.

Jonny Arson

I'm apparently a hardcore commie according to the political compass!

cm2000

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.26
almost bang in the middle

Economic Left/Right: -0.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.92

Pretty close to last time. Not a single party in my vicinity.

The_Minister

Jonny Arson wrote:

I'm apparently a hardcore commie according to the political compass!

Thats because you are;)

Glenbhoy

The_Minister wrote:

I'm in FF or FG:eek:
I would be economically liberal ans socially liberal (PD).
That questionnaire is flawed.

They asked me if my rights were being excessively curbed for counter-terrorism. The answer is no, because I'm not american.

Well, since I was abroad in the middle of the ridiculous over-reaction to the so-called 'liquid bombs' last year, I was quite easily able to say, yes, as should anyone who can no longer use the travel case they bought last year for hand luggage....
Although of course, being a nordie, i was well used to be asked "what's your name?", "where you coming from?", "where you going?", "why?", "would you like to get out of the car sir?" by some snotty nosed teenager holding a high powered weapon, virtually everytime I left the house.

InFront

The_Minister wrote:

I'm in FF or FG:eek:

I thought you'd at least wait until the PDs officially left the building:D

I was economically on the left, and slightly on the authoritarian side. Quite far away from Stalin though, which is always reassuring, I suppose.

padraig_f

Economic Left/Right: -3.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67

The figure I'm closest to is the Dalai Lama. Haven't seen any posters up for him yet.

Erin Go Brath

Economic Left/Right: -5.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.38

Near to Nelson Mandelas and Ghandis score. Can't be too bad.

brianthebard

here's me Nothing surprising really....

cornbb

cavedave wrote:

Finally someone that thinks in the same quater as 66% of people vote.
The only explanation I have for this is that politicians want power and thus authority. This makes them more likely to be authoritarian.
This still does not explain why people vote for policies about personal freedom they do not support though.

Politicalcompass may provide the answer to this mystery in their description of FF and FG as parties who are grounded in history, not ideology. Same could be said of their older generation of supporters, who are less likely to post their preferences here.

Its a real shame that. Surely the voters in a healthy democracy should elect their leaders based on their capabilities and/or ideologies rather than out of habit? FF and FG are populist parties, as someone here said, and they will bend over backwards to pretend to make everybody happy rather than providing a real choice of government. I can pick out very few real distinctions between them - they talk about facts and figures and other nitty gritty details of government rather than about where they really stand on things. The only possibly outcome of this government is yet another slightly right leaning coalition. Look at the recent presidential election in France. The people had a serious choice to make which is now going to profoundly effect the future of their country and the ideals that govern it. There was a massive turnout and emotions were strong. That keeps a good democracy on its toes.

The junior partners of the coalition will determine an awful lot more than people give them credit for, IMO. They will pull any potential government to either the left or the right. Thats why a candidate from a small party will get my vote, not some fence-sitting FF/FG guy.

My 2 cents anyway. Sorry about the rant

fobster

Lots of vague questions and as someone said no neutral option.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-2.13&soc=0.36

I'm middle of the road on most things. Regarding the economy there should be regulation but it should not be overbearing etc., I strongly agree with the statement: Those who are able to work, and refuse the opportunity, should not expect society's support. Feckin' spongers...

On the social side of things I'm against abortion except in certain circumstances, same-sex marraige/adoption, but am in favour of women working outside the home and strongly disagree with the statement that one cannot have morals without being religious etc.

nesf

Last time I did that test I was economically right wing and socially liberal.

Which is fairly accurate.

Boston

Darkies should go home, gays should be castrated, corporations have our best interest at heart, developing nations are there to be raped, women should make with the babies, religion is at the core of morality, Jews are responsible for 9/11 and criminals should be hobbled.

Economic Left/Right: 7.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 7.90

Which apparently puts me in the same position as George W. Bush. This survey is unbelievably bias towards the left. Hold any reasonable view and you're a leftist.

The_Minister

nesf wrote:

Last time I did that test I was economically right wing and socially liberal.

Which is fairly accurate.

/Throws Breaking the Mould at nesf.

nesf

The_Minister wrote:

/Throws Breaking the Mould at nesf.

Just accept it and convert to FG

Dandesav

Economic Left/Right: -4.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.26

Basically I'm a sandal-wearing, pot-smoking hippy!:D This puts me near Nelson Mandela and the Green Party. I'm actually quite shocked- I would consider myself to be socially liberal on most issues, but not so left-wing economically.
This is strange because I would be an FG supporter. I will be voting for Labour and the Greens too- I like some of their policies, but also beacuse of the transfer pact.
Maybe it's a bit unfair on their plan of the Irish parties to have FF and FG so far to the right?

The_Minister

nesf wrote:

Just accept it and convert to FG

Ok, you're right...
/go's to shoot some travellers

nesf

The_Minister wrote:

Ok, you're right...
/go's to shoot some travellers

zappy

FG voter, yet also appeared diagonally opposite to them.

Economic Left/Right: -3.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.26

Elmo

My Political Compass

Economic Left/Right: -6.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.13
http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-6.00&soc=-5.13
Economic Left and Social Libertarian.

I knew this, why did I have to take a test?

They asked me if my rights were being excessively curbed for counter-terrorism. The answer is no, because I'm not american.

The_Minister: Perhaps they want you to think of the community of people in the world in general.

Also the site suggests that we will have the same government even with an FG/Lab government. Same old same old. But then I knew this. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Lab: Are you happy?
PD: Just don't throw it all away!
FG: It's in our contract, we're happy not letting them.
FF: Now honestly lads, who wants in?

Which apparently puts me in the same position as George W. Bush. This survey is unbelievably bias towards the left. Hold any reasonable view and you're a leftist.

I don't know, if you hold what you think to be a reasonable view and you are to the far right you might not consider it bias.
The site explains what it considers Left and what it considers Right. Whats wrong with being Right if you are, surely you provided your reasonable view on the questions provided. Those views are exceptable hence it places people in different group depending on the definition as given.

It also it allows people have left social views and right economic views and visa versa.