Valdanos rant at Rafa/Jose

KdjaCL

Valdano attacks Prem duo

Jorge Valdano has slammed Jose Mourinho and Rafa Benitez saying that their "cynicism" is founded upon both mens' failure to find success as players.

The former Real Madrid player, coach and sporting director fiercely criticised the Chelsea and Liverpool managers following the uninspiring Champions League semi-final tie between the English clubs.

"Football is made up of subjective feeling, of suggestion - and, in that, Anfield is unbeatable," wrote Valdano in Spanish daily Marca.

"Put a **** hanging from a stick in the middle of this passionate, crazy stadium and there are people who will tell you it's a work of art.
It's not: it's a **** hanging from a stick."

"Chelsea and Liverpool are the clearest, most exaggerated example of the way football is going: very intense, very collective, very tactical, very physical, and very direct.

"But, a short pass? No. A feint? No. A change of pace? No. A one-two? A nutmeg? A backheel? Don't be ridiculous. None of that.

"The extreme control and seriousness with which both teams played the semi-final neutralised any creative licence, any moments of exquisite skill," continued the Argentine's diatribe.

Despite his father's status in the game as a former Portugal goalkeeper, Mourinho never played professionally and instead focused his sights on a coaching future.

Benitez also only achieved success by working his way up the coaching structure, having failed to make an appearance in the Primera Liga.

Valdano believes that has led to a degree of cynicism as managers.

"The lives of Mourinho and Benitez have crossed in a world that is ever more scrutinised and exposed by the media, which is why they look at each other with such distrust," Valdano continued.

"But they have two things in common: a previously denied, hitherto unsatisfied hunger for glory, and a desire to have everything under control.

"Both of those things stem from one key factor: neither Mourinho nor Benitez made it as a player. That has made them channel all their vanity into coaching.

"Those who did not have the talent to make it as players do not believe in the talent of players, they do not believe in the ability to improvise in order to win football matches.

"In short, Benitez and Mourinho are exactly the kind of coaches that Benitez and Mourinho would have needed to have made it as players."

Makes some good points but trying to get both as manager kinda moots his point.


kdjac

super_furry

A bitter rant from a jealous man connected to a state-sponsored team which has spectacularly under-achieved despite the obscene amounts of cash thrown at them. Next.

Chucky the tree

Fergie was a world class player wasnt he?

:rolleyes:

leninbenjamin

its an interesting theory alright. he could well be onto something... although when they mentioned this in another thread someone pointed out to Wenger who never made it as a player but his team plays some of the most attractive football (or attempts to these days more like).

I think control though plays a huge part of it, both Benitez and Mourinho seem to be utter control freaks (much more so than Ferguson and Wenger at times it seems). you can exert a much greater level of control and consistency over the defensive organisation, positioning of the players, get the fitness levels up, and generally enforce the workmanship aspect of the game, whereas relying on genius, well it can be tempermental and sometimes inconsistent, kinda like Ronaldo and Henry.

Chardee MacDennis

"But, a short pass? No. A feint? No. A change of pace? No. A one-two? A nutmeg? A backheel? Don't be ridiculous. None of that.

Pure and utter crap. For example: the first 25 minutes against chelsea was all about Liverpools passing skill. Also most of these things player like Garcia, Gerrard, Robben, Drogba and Cole do in nearly every match.

"Those who did not have the talent to make it as players do not believe in the talent of players, they do not believe in the ability to improvise in order to win football matches.

Exactly the opposite of what most managers seem to think - i have seen quotes but can't be bothered to search. But i have seen manager say those who were solid players with not much skill prefer the skillful players and build their team around them, while the managers who were skillful players build there team around the tough and solid type players.

This guy sounds like he is talking pure B$.

EDIT: Also one league win in 3 seasons with Real, hardly a pedigree manger himself.

Mr Alan

this guy is talking crap.
can only comment about liverpool because they are the only team i watch week in week out but although they do have games thats are less than exilerating (what team doesn't) they also can play beautiful football. The passes some of the players can make (Gerrard, Alonso) are as extraordinary as any piece of skill (showboating) ya might see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US7eiFGiCG4

Long ball boring stuff or something special? You decide! (all one game as well)

PHB

I'd agree with him about his first comments, god awful football, but in terms of the second, Wenger was a **** player too

Zapp Brannigan

millersangel wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US7eiFGiCG4

Long ball boring stuff or something special? You decide! (all one game as well)

Watching that vid makes it glaringly obvious how poor Alonso has been this season

Mr Alan

Slurms wrote:

Watching that vid makes it glaringly obvious how poor Alonso has been this season

I wouldnt say he was that poor, just hasn't been able to capture his previous brilliant form. but ya know what they say, class is permanent, form is temporary.

heres hoping he can get it together (fingers crossed)

KdjaCL

PHB wrote:

I'd agree with him about his first comments, god awful football, but in terms of the second, Wenger was a **** player too

I think he is focusingg on the ****e football they play so got Rafa/Jose rather than Wenger.

He is spot on tho only Pool/ Chelsea fans would agree that **** on a stick is good football when its winning football. Whereas any other teams fans are nodding and thinking "spot on "

Valdano was a decent player and won the league with Real.


kdjac

Chucky the tree

A pats fan slating another team for playing **** football? Gimme a break.

el rabitos

KdjaCL wrote:

I think he is focusingg on the ****e football they play so got Rafa/Jose rather than Wenger.

He is spot on tho only Pool/ Chelsea fans would agree that **** on a stick is good football when its winning football. Whereas any other teams fans are nodding and thinking "spot on "

Valdano was a decent player and won the league with Real.


kdjac

well if anyone knows what **** on a stick football is all about, its "patselona's" and the eircom leagues number one fan himself

my monitor melts with the irony

PiE

Chucky the tree wrote:

An EL fan slating another team for playing **** football? Gimme a break.

Fixed.

Raskolnikov

millersangel wrote:

I wouldnt say he was that poor, just hasn't been able to capture his previous brilliant form. but ya know what they say, class is permanent, form is temporary.

heres hoping he can get it together (fingers crossed)

I've noticed in a lot of Liverpool matches that I've watch, that Alonso is getting bypassed far too much. Instead of him crossing the ball from the back, Agger simply hoofs it up the field.

KdjaCL

el rabitos wrote:

well if anyone knows what **** on a stick football is all about, its "patselona's" and the eircom leagues number one fan himself

my monitor melts with the irony

LOL Crouch wouldnt sign for us sadly his neck creaked from looking down all the time.

I am shocked Pool fans are annoyed at Valdanos rant really i am, like seriously i cannot believe that pool fans the epitome of total football are anooyed at Valdanos rant....mad it is mad!!!!!

kdjac

Chucky the tree

KdjaCL wrote:

LOL Crouch wouldnt sign for us sadly his neck creaked from looking down all the time.

I am shocked Pool fans are annoyed at Valdanos rant really i am, like seriously i cannot believe that pool fans the epitome of total football are anooyed at Valdanos rant....mad it is mad!!!!!

kdjac

What liverpool fan has said we are the epitome of total football? Feel free to quote it and show me.

Its his hole "Only ex-players can produce attractive football" that is the problem, complete bull****.

el rabitos

KdjaCL wrote:

LOL Crouch wouldnt sign for us sadly his neck creaked from looking down all the time.

I am shocked Pool fans are annoyed at Valdanos rant really i am, like seriously i cannot believe that pool fans the epitome of total football are anooyed at Valdanos rant....mad it is mad!!!!!

kdjac

/shrug.

cant say i gave much thought to his comment. thought yours was a joke though.

whats with the crouch slagging? he offend you?

KdjaCL

/shocked

Valdano trolls every pool/che fan and it works. When i seen that earlier i did giggle at the response the typical pool fan would have on here.

Does Crouch thrive on the long pass or the long ball ?

kdjac

KdjaCL

Chucky the tree wrote:

Its his hole "Only ex-players can produce attractive football" that is the problem, complete bull****.

So umm prove him wrong? I cant think of any manager who didnt play football yet got a side to play decent attacking football.


kdjac

leninbenjamin

KdjaCL wrote:

/shocked

Does Crouch thrive on the long pass or the long ball ?

kdjac

actually he's probably best with the ball on the ground.

Chucky the tree

KdjaCL wrote:

So umm prove him wrong? I cant think of any manager who didnt play football yet got a side to play decent attacking football.


kdjac

Whats you idea of playing football? Wenger?

LostinBlanch

C'mon it was a good metaphor! [where's the hold your nose smiley?] Also a bit too close to the bone for some.

Much more of Maureen and Benitez's take on George Graham football and then we'll start to see ads about jogo funcional rather than jogo bonito. Can't see Nike et al going for it though.

WhiteWashMan

leninbenjamin wrote:

actually he's probably best with the ball on the ground.

its got to be said, he has great ability with one touch flick ons. its only when he has to touch the ball a second time he starts gvetting that awkward look about him, but he still usually manages to do something with it.

KdjaCL

Chucky the tree wrote:

Whats you idea of playing football? Wenger?

Valdano said it i just agreed with it, Pool and Che play **** but winning football.

Wasnt Wenger a PROFESSIONAL footballer at some stage rather than a UCD type player for schools?

Still dont get your point.



kdjac

Chucky the tree

KdjaCL wrote:

Valdano said it i just agreed with it, Pool and Che play **** but winning football.

Wasnt Wenger a PROFESSIONAL footballer at some stage rather than a UCD type player for schools?

Still dont get your point.



kdjac

3 appearance, a dazzling career indead.


I thought my point was fairly obvious. You dont need to be a proffesional footballer to manage an attractive team that plays attractive football.

_blank_

PiE wrote:

Fixed.

Troll tbh.

Why come into a thread like this only to slate the eL?

So, your level of expectation might be stuck in the cash-rich Premier/La Liga/Serie A leagues, that doesn't give you the right to slate the people who go week-in week-out to actually support their local leagues.

Comparing the likes of the above mentioned leagues and the eL is an excercise in idiocy.

We all know the players at the level of the top leagues in Europe are better than that found in the eL, who can question that? Not me for sure, but some people expexct the absolute impossible when it comes to the eL. There is no money in it, and if people would come to games there would be more. And it would get better, but people expecting Premiership level football at eLoI grounds are delusional.

And to take a cheap shot like that is pure ignorance.

KdjaCL

Chucky the tree wrote:

3 appearance, a dazzling career indead.


I thought my point was fairly obvious. You dont need to be a proffesional footballer to manage an attractive team that plays attractive football.

So name one manager who wasnt a pro that manages a team that plays attractive football. Valdano is spot on tbh and the best way to summarise it is if Zidane played for either club what position would he play ? He has only one position but well its fairly obvious why it wouldnt work at certain clubs.


EDIT/// wtf do you think Rafa and jose play attractive football with pool and che?



kdjac

KdjaCL

seansouth wrote:

Troll tbh.



Comparing the likes of the above mentioned leagues and the eL is an excercise in idiocy.

I take it as complete retardedness but from a pool fan when their total fooballesqueness is questioned by a World Cup winner its expected, wouldnt get too worked up about it really.


kdjac

Chardee MacDennis

i dont understand why the media take what a world cup winner has to say as bible?

i would listen to mourinho, benitez, wenger, [put any other prem manager here] over say Jack Charlton, Tardelli, Voller, etc...

el rabitos

seansouth wrote:

And to take a cheap shot like that is pure ignorance.

and taking a shot at the 22+ players and the managers involved in that match is the mark of a intelligence?

_blank_

el rabitos wrote:

and taking a shot at the 22+ players and the managers involved in that match is the mark of a intelligence?

I was saying nothing of the Spanish man.

To think or imply I was, just to start an argument, is a mark of idiocy.

I wasn't having a go at your beloved English team tbh. Your paranoia amazes me.