Growing Cannabis?

stewie01

Hello

My question is a simple 1. Is it illegal to grow the cannabis/hemp plant as i am interested in making some hemp clothes and hats.

ok im not really but could this be used as a defence in a court of law or is it cast iron law that states growin this plant is a crime FULL STOP

could you be prosicuted if 1 or 2 of these plants were found on your land?

Opinions?

stifz

illegal.

followed by a full stop .

stewie01

really, its that clear in the law books? do you have a link to this or is it just a guess/opinion? is there no grey area on the matter?

Also wat if you had a few hundred of them mushrooms that were banned a while back growing on your land, would you be prosicuted for that?

off topic but does any1 read legal discussions. i shudda posted in AH.

seamus

I can move it to after hours if you like.

It's specifically illegal to cultivate the plant. Along with other ones such as St. John's Wort. Bizarrely.

As regards the mushrooms growing on your land - maybe. I guess it would have to be shown that you were aware that the mushrooms were growing there.

padser

stewie01 wrote:

really, its that clear in the law books? do you have a link to this or is it just a guess/opinion? is there no grey area on the matter?

No link cos I couldn't be assed looking for one but it is that clear. No there is no grey area. Legislators are not (completely) stupid.

stewie01 wrote:

Also wat if you had a few hundred of them mushrooms that were banned a while back growing on your land, would you be prosicuted for that?

I'm not sure, was it a strict liability offence or was mens rea required?

stewie01 wrote:

off topic but does any1 read legal discussions. i shudda posted in AH.

You got a comprehensive answer within 6 minutes of posting your question. What more do you want? The reason you didn't get any more answers was because the question you posted didn't require them - there was no grey area - nothing to be discussed etc.

hullaballoo

stewie01 wrote:

off topic but does any1 read legal discussions. i shudda posted in AH.

Well, as padser points out, you got an answer within 6 minutes. You asked a "simple" question, and got a simple answer.

Plenty of people read this forum, and this question gets asked on this website about once a week, so most people just aren't bothered answering it at this stage, except for those who wishfully think there are loopholes that will let them get away with it.

There aren't any. Here's the law:

S 17 of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977 wrote:

(1) A person shall not cultivate opium poppy or any plant of the genus Cannabis except under and in accordance with a licence issued in that behalf by the Minister. (2) Every person who cultivates opium poppy or a plant of the genus Cannabis in contravention of subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.

Interestingly, the definition of cannabis expressly excludes "

(

a ) mature stalk of any such plant,

(

b ) fibre produced from such mature stalk, or ( c ) seed of any such plant"

That just means you can grow the stalks etc., but not the flower (the useful bit from the point of view of drugs).

rubadub

It is illegal. Even if growing by accident, i.e. hemp seed can be got in any pet store as bird seed, you could innocently be growing it unawares outside. Argument might work for agnes the 70 year old nun, but not for Micko with his 10 plants under his 1000W HPS bulb with white widow plants dripping with resin, "eh I didnt know what they were your honour".

Mushrooms are also illegal to grow and you could in theory be prosecuted for them growing on your land, but I cannot see that ever happening, again unless it is obvious they are being cultivated.

hullaball&#250 wrote:

Interestingly, the definition of cannabis expressly excludes "

(

a ) mature stalk of any such plant,

(

b ) fibre produced from such mature stalk, or ( c ) seed of any such plant"

That just means you can grow the stalks etc., but not the flower (the useful bit from the point of view of drugs).

That is so hemp products like clothes, seed & oil are exempt.

The laws were updated recently about the mushrooms. Salvia divinorum has been made illegal in many countries recently too. There are 100's if not 1000's of hallucinogenic plants out there, many when grown will contain illegal substances. I am not sure if the laws speficially mention any other than cannabis, opium, or mushrooms.

Is there a list of illegal drugs?

Our man in Havana

So canabis plants are only illegal if they have buds on them?

hullaballoo

More or less, yes. Basically the law is such that you can grow as many cannibis plants as you like once there's no possibility that you can get high from them.

It's probably one of the few areas where the law gets it right (in terms of what it's trying to do - I'm not sure I fully agree with the fact that cannibis is illegal as a drug).

rubadub

Bond-007 wrote:

So canabis plants are only illegal if they have buds on them?

I still dont think it is. The law specifically says

A person shall not cultivate opium poppy or any plant of the genus Cannabis

The rest is a definition given to "cannabis" as a substance, i.e. it is a nickname, it could have been replaced by marijuana.

It also says...

1.—(1) In this Act—

"cannabis" (except in "cannabis resin") means the flowering or fruiting tops of any plant of the genus Cannabis from which the resin has not been extracted, by whatever name they may be designated;

"cannabis resin" means the separated resin, whether crude or purified, obtained from any plant of the genus Cannabis;

The "genus cannabis" covers all 3 known varities and any future undiscovered ones. This is an important point, some states in the US specifically make cannabis sativa and/or cannabis indica illegal while the third strain could legally be grown. Some cases have been thrown out in the US because of incorrect botanical reports.

hullaballoo

That's incorrect in terms of the definition of "cannibis" which was amended by the 1984 Misuse of Drugs act, s. 2: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/act/pub/0018/sec0002.html#zza18y1984s2.

Misuse of Drugs Act 1984 wrote:

2.—section 1 (1) of the Principal Act is hereby amended by—


( a ) the substitution of the following definition for the definition of "cannabis":


"'cannabis' (except in 'cannabis resin') means any plant of the genus Cannabis or any part of any such plant (by whatever name designated) but includes neither cannabis resin nor any of the following products after separation from the rest of any such plant, namely—


( a ) mature stalk of any such plant,


( b ) fibre produced from such mature stalk, or


( c ) seed of any such plant;"

hawker27

so is it illegal or legal just to have some cannabis plants that only have leafs?.

Victor

hawker27 wrote:

so is it illegal or legal just to have some cannabis plants that only have leafs?.

Illegal.

You can only have stalks. No leafs, no roots.

rubadub

hullaball&#250 wrote:

That's incorrect in terms of the definition of "cannibis" which was amended by the 1984 Misuse of Drugs act, s. 2: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/act/pub/0018/sec0002.html#zza18y1984s2.

Right so the definition changed but it still appears to me to be illegal to grow any plant of the cannabis genus. If you had a mature stalk of the plant that is fine, but if some new subspecies within the cannabis genus was found that could be grown without leaves, roots or buds you would still be caught by

A person shall not cultivate opium poppy or any plant of the genus Cannabis

hullaballoo

rubadub wrote:

Right so the definition changed but it still appears to me to be illegal to grow any plant of the cannabis genus. If you had a mature stalk of the plant that is fine, but if some new subspecies within the cannabis genus was found that could be grown without leaves, roots or buds you would still be caught by

No, I don't think so.

"'cannabis' (except in 'cannabis resin') means any plant of the genus Cannabis or any part of any such plant (by whatever name designated) but includes neither cannabis resin nor any of the following products after separation from the rest of any such plant, namely—


( a ) mature stalk of any such plant,


( b ) fibre produced from such mature stalk, or


( c ) seed of any such plant;"

That seems to me to suggest that cultivating stalks would be ok.

johnnyskeleton

hullaball&#250 wrote:

No, I don't think so.


That seems to me to suggest that cultivating stalks would be ok.

I tend to agree with rubadub. The definition refers to cannabis as it is defined in the act as prescribed for the purposes of section 3, 15 etc.

However there is a separate offence of growing cannabis which says plants of the "genus cannabis". I think genus cannabis is different to the legal definition of cannabis in the act, and in the definition in section 1 it states

'cannabis' (except in 'cannabis resin') means any plant of the genus Cannabis or any part of any such plant (by whatever name designated) but includes neither cannabis resin nor any of the following products after separation from the rest of any such plant, namely(empahsis added)

.

Therefore I think genus cannabis is a botanical term that is ordinarily understood (and when used in the act means the whole plant), whereas the definition of cannabis defines what parts of the plant are illegal to possess.

In relation to whether wild mushrooms or cannabis growing on your land could be attributed to you, the courts are entitled to infer that you either knew of, or were reckless to, the existance of the plant on your property from the surrounding circumstances.

Victor

rubadub wrote:

Right so the definition changed but it still appears to me to be illegal to grow any plant of the cannabis genus. If you had a mature stalk of the plant that is fine, but if some new subspecies within the cannabis genus was found that could be grown without leaves, roots or buds you would still be caught by

I would love to know how one would grow such a plant without leaves roots or buds - biologicly difficult.

Goblin_insane

Victor wrote:

I would love to know how one would grow such a plant without leaves roots or buds - biologicly difficult.

Can someone please make a joke about genetically modified cannabis :P

...I get my hat

rubadub

Victor wrote:

I would love to know how one would grow such a plant without leaves roots or buds - biologicly difficult.

Exactly, it is a bit of a moot point, thats why I was talking of a hypothetical sub species which didnt have any, but it still would be illegal to grow.

Cannabis can be grafted onto the hops plant, dunno what would happen in that case (other than great beer)

hullaballoo

rubadub wrote:

Exactly, it is a bit of a moot point, thats why I was talking of a hypothetical sub species which didnt have any, but it still would be illegal to grow.

Cannabis can be grafted onto the hops plant, dunno what would happen in that case (other than great beer)

Lol.

Overheal

rubadub wrote:

Exactly, it is a bit of a moot point, thats why I was talking of a hypothetical sub species which didnt have any, but it still would be illegal to grow.

Cannabis can be grafted onto the hops plant, dunno what would happen in that case (other than great beer)

Graft the stalk/the legal bit onto a legal system of roots and a legal system of leaves.

Grass between the tracks

What are the actual penalties for growing cannabis?

amber2

Verdicts depend on the specifics of the case and the judge on the day.

http://www.corkman.ie/news/cannabis-grower-escapes-jail-time-2833627.html

srsly78

"subject to licence from the minister"

If you want to grow hemp for research purposes you can get a special dispensation. Here is a a taxpayer funded Teagasc report on "The performance of Cannabis Sativa (hemp) as a Fiber": http://www.teagasc.ie/research/reports/crops/4487/eopr-4487.pdf

Note: the minister will probably tell you to fsck off tho

Sunnyisland

Grass between the tracks wrote: »

What are the actual penalties for growing cannabis?

There was also a polish lad who got 6/7 years last week in donegal, He had about 70 plants.

source

Section 17 Misuse of Drugs Act 1977

17.—(1) A person shall not cultivate opium poppy or any plant of the genus Cannabis except under and in accordance with a licence issued in that behalf by the Minister.


(2) Every person who cultivates opium poppy or a plant of the genus Cannabis in contravention of subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.

Penalty under Section 27(5) Misuse of Drugs Act 1977

(5) Every person guilty of an offence under section 17 of this Act shall be liable—


(a) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding two hundred and fifty pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding twelve months, or to both the fine and the imprisonment, or


(b) on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding three thousand pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years, or to both the fine and the imprisonment.

So on summary conviction up to 12 months, on indictment up to 14 years.

tricky D

srsly78 wrote: »

"subject to licence from the minister"

^This is the important bit.

There's a lot of poor info elsewhere on this thread.

It is legal to grow hemp with the correct licence both in the Republic and Northern Ireland.

Hemp Ireland did this over a decade ago, but the markets didn't didn't latch onto it. The main outlet ended up being for horse bedding which was unsustainable so Hemp Ireland folded after a few years. I ran their website.

Cannabis can also be grown usually for medical research under strict licence but that's very unlikely to be granted unless you're a university or similar.

paky

stewie01 wrote: »

Hello

My question is a simple 1. Is it illegal to grow the cannabis/hemp plant as i am interested in making some hemp clothes and hats.

ok im not really but could this be used as a defence in a court of law or is it cast iron law that states growin this plant is a crime FULL STOP

could you be prosicuted if 1 or 2 of these plants were found on your land?

Opinions?

its not illegal if you dont get caught. i grew one in my window sill and it grew about four feet tall but turned out to be a male plant so no good. my neighbour across the street is ironicaly a detective in the drug squad and never noticed it

blueythebear

paky wrote: »

its not illegal if you dont get caught.

On the contrary, it is very much illegal. Just because you weren't caught doesn't make it legal. What would be the point of having laws if that was everyones' attitude?

paky

blueythebear wrote: »

On the contrary, it is very much illegal. Just because you weren't caught doesn't make it legal. What would be the point of having laws if that was everyones' attitude?

On the contrary, I disagree

Jagle

paky wrote: »

On the contrary, I disagree

if a cannabis plant grows and noone sees it, does it grow haha

blueythebear

paky wrote: »

On the contrary, I disagree

Then you're wrong. Breaking the law is breaking the law whether it's discovered or not.

Krieg

There was a thread in AH a couple months back about how the head shops were diversifying their products. (Im too lazy to try and find the thread sry).

The head shops are selling grow kits, basically compost, light bulb, pot. Then beside those kits, they were selling cannabis seeds.

A lot of questions were raised regarding the legality here and the accepted response (nobody seemed to question the validity of the post/poster), was that the cannabis seeds themselves are not illegal, but as soon as you attempt to grow them, its illegal. From reading the misuse of drugs act it does specify the word "cultivate" so it seems what they (head shops) are doing is perfectly legal (for the moment).


Anyway, doesn't matter how many plants you grow, its illegal as soon as you put the seeds into compost. Even though the Gardai use the distinction between "personal use" & "dealer", Id say 1 plant could still put you in the firing line of "dealer" since you could easily get an ounce out of 1 plant. From my own personal experience the Gardai seem to use 1/8 as the line between personal use/dealer e.g. If you have an eighth they call it personal use, if the quantity is higher than that or its split into 2 or more pieces, you are a dealer. Though I have no idea if the above distinction is written somewhere in law

paky wrote:

its not illegal if you dont get caught.

What a horrible phrase. So, if I rape someone and I dont get caught, is it still rape? :pac:

Jagle

Krieg wrote: »

TEven though the Gardai use the distinction between "personal use" & "dealer", Id say 1 plant could still put you in the firing line of "dealer" since you could easily get an ounce out of 1 plant. From my own personal experience the Gardai seem to use 1/8 as the line between personal use/dealer e.g. If you have an eighth they call it personal use, if the quantity is higher than that or its split into 2 or more pieces, you are a dealer. Though I have no idea if the above distinction is written somewhere in law

nonsense about them using 1/8th's.

first of all being a dealer, means selling weed, so they look for things such as baggies, cash, second phone, phone with messages/texts about drugs, scales, and so on,
I am in no way a dealer, but i consume alot of cannabis personally, i buy in large amounts as its cheaper, so if they bust me for being a dealer cos ive more then an 1/8th that just doesnt compute.

and 1 plant would be very much personal, medical patients in most american states that have medical weed legal allows for 12 plants per patient, hell, if someone needs 12 plants to keep themselves in weed how is jimmie with 5 plants gonna supply half of the county.

Krieg

Jagle wrote: »

nonsense about them using 1/8th's.

first of all being a dealer, means selling weed, so they look for things such as baggies, cash, second phone, phone with messages/texts about drugs, scales, and so on,
I am in no way a dealer, but i consume alot of cannabis personally, i buy in large amounts as its cheaper, so if they bust me for being a dealer cos ive more then an 1/8th that just doesnt compute.

and 1 plant would be very much personal, medical patients in most american states that have medical weed legal allows for 12 plants per patient, hell, if someone needs 12 plants to keep themselves in weed how is jimmie with 5 plants gonna supply half of the county.

Its merely from personal experience that I mentioned an 1/8th, im happy to hear other peoples experiences and opinions on this. I too get large quantities, but id certainly be paranoid about being caught with an ounce or more. I know the gardai will look for drug paraphernalia such as scales and bags and use them in court as evidence, but lets say an individual is caught with 10 ounces in a single bag with no other drug paraphernalia, I doubt the gardai/dpp will accept that its for personal use and move for a drug trafficking charge or similar?

Jagle

Krieg wrote: »

Its merely from personal experience that I mentioned an 1/8th, im happy to hear other peoples experiences and opinions on this. I too get large quantities, but id certainly be paranoid about being caught with an ounce or more. I know the gardai will look for drug paraphernalia such as scales and bags and use them in court as evidence, but lets say an individual is caught with 10 ounces in a single bag with no other drug paraphernalia, I doubt the gardai/dpp will accept that its for personal use and move for a drug trafficking charge or similar?

ya, as walking around with between3-4grand of weed is a bit strange even for me haha.

hard to prove that is for personal, but a few ounces i would.
im sure the gardai/dpp wouldnt tho, i was amazed how a gardai/friend was shocked at the amount of weed one of the lads recently, he had half an oz and the gardai thought it was loads, silly man

Our man in Havana

So what would 100 plants get you?

Jagle

Our man in Havana wrote: »

So what would 100 plants get you?

as in criminal sentence?

Our man in Havana

Indeed.

Jagle

well it depends on alot, but im gonna say 2 years

Oh_Noes

Our man in Havana wrote: »

So what would 100 plants get you?

Two years or so in prison. There was a story sometime last week about a guy caught with 70 plants and he got two years.

Just on the above dealing debate, a friend of mine was caught with four plants which were yielding about 150 grams of weed at least, so about 5 ounces. There was nothing in his place to do with weed other than his plants, grow equipment, some skins and a grinder. He wasn't charged with dealing at all, just cultivation and possession which were thrown in together in the court. He got community service.

Sunnyisland

100 plants, get an ounce of each plant , 36 x 1ounce is a kilo, nearly 3 kilos,No way that's just for personal use,so you be charged with dealing etc etc,i would think anything up to 5 years depending on your previous and your circumstances as do the garda know you etc.

Jagle

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Just on the above dealing debate, a friend of mine was caught with four plants which were yielding about 150 grams of weed at least, so about 5 ounces. There was nothing in his place to do with weed other than his plants, grow equipment, some skins and a grinder. He wasn't charged with dealing at all, just cultivation and possession which were thrown in together in the court. He got community service.

thats the right job too, justice, thank god your friend didnt get sent to jail.
Personally i believe we should adopt a similiar system to spain, cannabis may be grown in ones private residence for personal consumption, as long as you can prove you dont deal, again no baggies, evidence of it, and that you do smoke alot why make a criminal outta someone who is only trying to avoid crime

Sunnyisland

realies wrote: »

There was also a polish lad who got 6/7 years last week in donegal, He had about 70 plants.

That was last week.

RATM

Sentences on this can be all over the place as it is a relatively new crime.

The Polish lad getting 2 years is one end of the stick. I know of a man in Dundalk who had 84 plants and he explained them off as personal use (ridiculous I know). He also had previous for having possession of a fake Irish passport, fraud was the charge IIRC. For the 84 plants he got a suspended sentence...again ridiculous. The fact he was a former garda and knew the judge personally seems to have got him off the hook IMO.