Speed LImit while overtaking

GG66

I was with someone today who got a speeding ticket for being clocked at 130kph (80mph) while overtaking a motorcycle and a car.

It was long stretch of road with no visible oncoming traffic. Both vehicles which were overtaken were travelling under the speed limit.

Made me think, seems a bit harsh, surely you have to speed to overtake and then is it not in your interest to overtake quickly. Garda says they usually all 10% over speed limit for overtaking..........

colm_mcm

he probably maintained a speed of 80mph for a while after overtaking.

astraboy

Seems a bit harsh all right if your friend was just over taking, I have no problem with people going over the limit while overtaking as it is a way of reducing your risk, ie your time on the other side of the road. 130KPH is fairly fast on a national secondary road though(assuming this is where it hapened) so I suppose the cop had to do him for it.

GG66

No, he dropped down to speed limit fairly quickly afterwards....it was a primary route, sligo-dublin, good road, long stretch etc.

He had overtaken another car just before that in what I would have judged to be a safe manner. Garda said he was driving dangerously overtaking a car and a bike at once, they were too close together to do it any other way.

Idleater

GG66 wrote:

No, he dropped down to speed limit fairly quickly afterwards....it was a primary route, sligo-dublin, good road, long stretch etc.

So he was doing 130 in a 100 zone?

embraer170

A bit harsh but not that unusual.

Then plenty will argue that if you had to go over the limit while overtaking, you shouldn't overtake at all.... but then what if you're struck behind someone who does a solid 100 on straight streches but drops to 70 in bends.. and back to 100 etc.

he probably maintained a speed of 80mph for a while after overtaking.

How would you define a while?

GG66

So he was doing 130 in a 100 zone?

yeah granted....but how long would it take to overtake a bike and a car doing 95kph. its quite easy to find yourself accelerating to 130 to clear both vehicles with a safe distance to spare...

GG66

How would you define a while?

long enough to do so safely without applying the brakes in a dangerous manner

MarkR

You know that the speed limit is a maximum limit, right? Anything over this, for whatever period, is exceeding the speed limit.

astraboy

PC brigade are going to have a field day.:rolleyes:

is_that_so

embraer170 wrote:

A bit harsh but not that unusual.

Then plenty will argue that if you had to go over the limit while overtaking, you shouldn't overtake at all.... but then what if you're struck behind someone who does a solid 100 on straight streches but drops to 70 in bends.. and back to 100 etc.



How would you define a while?

Well if the speed limit is 100 kph it is very hard to make any kind of case. I would say hitting 130 kph in a 100kph zone was the clincher - that's 30% over the speed limit. TBH it shows some serious impatience on his part. 110 kph is 10%.

colm_mcm

the Garda uses his/her discression, most wouldn't prosecute for going slightly over the speed limit when overtaking provided they resumed to the correct speed afterwards and didn't do so dangerously. chances are the Garda had been hehind the OP's friend for a while and observed his/her behaviour.

GG66

You know that the speed limit is a maximum limit, right?

Yes, but it would be difficult to pass 2 vehicles doing 95kph while remaining under 100kph. Both of them were varying speed up and down, on bends and straights with unnecessary breaking.

timmywex

the limit is the maximum, you cant go over the limit(in therory), do you mean to say that just becasue he was overtaking, its less risk to break the limit?

colm_mcm

I think the problem the OP has is that the Garda could have been more lenient.
Of course the law is that you cannot exceed the speed limit.

unkel

colm_mcm wrote:

I think the problem the OP has is that the Garda could have been more lenient.
Of course the law is that you cannot exceed the speed limit.

Exactly. I overtake at full throttle. Pretty much always. This means that I often exceed the speed limit during overtaking. I've no points yet, but that is the most likely way I'll get them...

DonJose

astraboy wrote:

PC brigade are going to have a field day.:rolleyes:

Don't forget the boyracers, they'll be defending the defenceless

GG66

do you mean to say that just becasue he was overtaking, its less risk to break the limit?

Yes in this case, I think so.

He broke the limit while overtaking and ensured that he was back on his own side of the road more quickly while leaving plenty of space in front of the other car rather than cutting in.

I've been in a position where I've been overtaken and the other car pulls directly in front of me and slows down causing me to brake. It's possible that this car remained within the speed limit but came closer to causing an accident..

I know the speed limit. All I'm saying is that the Garda could have been more lenient, it wasn't wreckless overtaking

Idleater

unkel wrote:

Exactly. I overtake at full throttle. Pretty much always. This means that I often exceed the speed limit during overtaking. I've no points yet, but that is the most likely way I'll get them...

but will you complain if you do get caught, as you admit, knowingly breaking the speedlimit?

To be fair, when you are driving in a car, overtaking is pretty pointless 99% of the time, because you are only going to catch up with the next car a minute further down the road.

Buy a bike if you really want to make progress.

:cool:

tinkerbell

I think going up to 130 kph in a 100 zone will definitely get you a speeding ticket. I've heard that they give or take 10% which would give you up to 110 kph to overtake. It shouldn't take you more than that to overtake someone who is going just under the 100 speed limit.

How fast were the car and motorbike going anyway? Seems a bit dodgy that your friend had to go so fast to overtake them .. plus, it's the May bank holiday weekend - the gardai are gonna be clamping down because of so many deaths on this particular weekend.

maidhc

I would think getting done at 80mph in a 62mph zone, is, all things considered a fair cop. In all likelihood the speedo in the car was reading in excess of 80mph, so, overtaking or not, I don't think there is a case for the garda to answer.

I'm not trying to be holier-than-thou here, I have often hit those speeds trying to get past a truck, and will do again, but when you are breaking the limit by over 20mph you must be aware that there is a possibility of getting done.

drdre

that seems abit harsh, but you cant really fight with the guards

Idleater

GG66 wrote:

I know the speed limit. All I'm saying is that the Garda could have been more lenient, it wasn't wreckless overtaking

Hang on a sec,

in the first post you are asking for a 10% "grace" from the gardai - in a 100 zone, that equates to 110kmph.

He was caught knowingly doing 130.

I am not a member of the "PC brigade" but at least have the decency to admit to being over the limit, and knowing the concequences of these risks. Just because 95% of the time you don't get caught, doesn't mean that if you do get caught you should be let away with it.

GG66

How fast were the car and motorbike going anyway?

They were travelling around the speed limit but were braking and accelerating a it erratic. overtaking seemed like a good idea to me.

Granted, the Garda was doing his job and 130 seems a lot when taken out of context. It seemed very normal at the time though. Really, this must be the longest straightest stretch of road in the county with v good visibility

GG66

I am not a member of the "PC brigade" but at least have the decency to admit to being over the limit, and knowing the concequences of these risks.

Erm.. he did admit it and accepted the consequences AND quite gracefully too

Case closed!!

drdre

GG66 wrote:

They were travelling around the speed limit but were braking and accelerating a it erratic. overtaking seemed like a good idea to me.

Granted, the Garda was doing his job and 130 seems a lot when taken out of context. It seemed very normal at the time though. Really, this must be the longest straightest stretch of road in the county with v good visibility

how many points do you already have?

Idleater

GG66 wrote:

It seemed very normal at the time though.

Speeding should never seem normal.

GG66 wrote:

Really, this must be the longest straightest stretch of road in the county with v good visibility

For such a good straight bit of road, surely the driver would have seen the Gardai so.

I would chalk this up to experience, learn from the lack of observation, and be thankful that what you didn't see was a garda with a speed gun rather than a tractor, other vehicle, child, football, etc etc.

L.

Idleater

GG66 wrote:

Erm.. he did admit it and accepted the consequences AND quite gracefully too

Case closed!!

Why post this thread so?

if everything was hunky dory, you could have posted a thread topic along the lines of

"A mate of mine was caught doing 130 in a 100 zone after overtaking 2 vehicles and not seeing the gardai up ahead. He was lucky to get away with a talking to and 2 points, but he has learned his lesson and won't speed again"

GG66

For such a good straight bit of road, surely the driver would have seen the Gardai so.

They were travelling 200 metres behind in an unmarked black 4x4

There were no tractors, children, oncoming cars, adjoining roads, or cute little puppies

GG66

Why post this thread so?

because I'm not you!!

what are you so upset about? I'm just passing some time having a chat to see if other people have had similar experiences. I've got no penaly points, they were my friends first.

colm_mcm

Jaysus, Didn't spot the PC brigade either.

Idleater

GG66 wrote:

They were travelling 200 metres behind in an unmarked black 4x4

There were no tractors, children, oncoming cars, adjoining roads, or cute little puppies

meh!

he was totally stung so.

GG66 wrote:

what are you so upset about? I'm just passing some time having a chat to see if other people have had similar experiences. I've got no penaly points, they were my friends first.

meh too.

I'm not upset. I just like the discussions where the two sides of the one coin are contradictory.

Side 1: leniency towards marginal breaking of the rules.
Side 2: lack of enforcement in general bad driving on the roads.

We all use the roads, we all agree that the lack of enforcement is one of the reasons for the bad driving, and we all want to be let away with less punishment if (and it is a big if) we get caught.

L.

GG66

he was totally stung so.

that's what it felt like, the 4x4 tinted windows 'n all. Wouldn't have been surprised if they jumped out in black suits and shades.

Must be fun speeding around in that!

DrivingInfo

A come on

If they were doing 95kph why overtake in the first place.

You should drive at a speed to suite the conditions.

Questions
1. The bike, was he in front?
2. Was he driving at 95kph due to conditions?
3. Was the car far enough away to allow for a car to overtake and pull in front, behind the bike?
4. What road marking?
5. Why have speed limits if you can do whatever speed you like if you are overtaking?

There are so many things you have to consider when overtaking think about the garda.

What the garda was thinking
“Look at this gobs..t” Doing 130 in a 100 limit and overtaking 2 vehicles at once.
Mmmmmmmmmmmm

unkel

nereid wrote:

but will you complain if you do get caught, as you admit, knowingly breaking the speedlimit?

Hopefully I'll be man enough to gracefully accept my deserved punishment without whinging too much or feeling sorry for myself

nereid wrote:

Buy a bike if you really want to make progress.

:cool:

Turning up for a full days work on the other side of the country in a suit + tie with an overnight bag and a heavy laptop plus loads of books and documentation kinda confines me to the cage

And believe me, overtaking in my car means the difference between getting up ridiculously early or just very early.

colm_mcm

DrivingInfo wrote:

A come on

If they were doing 95kph why overtake in the first place.



There are so many things you have to consider when overtaking think about the garda.

I get annoyed by drivers who are going slower than I'd like. In a 100kmph zone (conditions allowing) I usually travel at an indicated speed of 110kmph. I know that my speedo overstates mileage, and that a Garda wouldn't stop me for being 1 or 2 kmph over the limit.
If a driver is doing an indicated 95 kmph and is slowing down and speeding up all the time, I don't wanna be behind him.

GG66

1. The bike, was he in front?

No, behind

2. Was he driving at 95kph due to conditions

No he was driving at varying speeds as I posted earlier, repeated braking. Weather was clear

3. Was the car far enough away to allow for a car to overtake and pull in front, behind the bike?

No, the bike didn't leave a safe distance for another vehicle to overtake

4. What road marking?

On a 1 mile straight stretch, overtaking allowed

5. Why have speed limits if you can do whatever speed you like if you are overtaking?

Good idea :rolleyes: I never said people should do whatever speed they want.

Landcruiser 06

that was it but not 100% sure, they went by us so fast I couldn't get a proper look and didn't bother reading the badge on the back

DrivingInfo

What the garda was thinking
“Look at this gobs..t” Doing 130 in a 100 limit and overtaking 2 vehicles at once.
Mmmmmmmmmmmm

Whats your answer to this

colm_mcm

Could DrivingInfo be any more condescending?

The OP has previously stated that he understands that breaking the speed limit is wrong.

GG66

What the garda was thinking
“Look at this gobs..t” Doing 130 in a 100 limit and overtaking 2 vehicles at once.
Mmmmmmmmmmmm

That wasn't a question! If you read the thread I think it's quite clear what the Garda was thinking. He's speeding, stop him and give him a ticket.

I thought after taking the time to answer your questions you might have something constructive to add or why else would you ask???

Stop wasting my time, and add something constructive

Idleater

unkel wrote:

Turning up for a full days work on the other side of the country in a suit + tie with an overnight bag and a heavy laptop plus loads of books and documentation kinda confines me to the cage

Tee hee!!!

Buy a proper BMW.

Idleater

GG66 wrote:

No he was driving at varying speeds as I posted earlier, repeated braking. Weather was clear

I was out today and it was a little windy out.

A bike is more impacted by windy conditions than a car is.

L.

GG66

neired, glad to hear you're not getting too uptight about it.

I'm all for safer driving, it just bugs me that the Gardai always seem to be present on the best parts of our road network....while the minor roads provide more serious dangers

GG66

A bike is more impacted by windy conditions than a car is.

Thats possible why he was driving so close to the car in front? wind breaker?

DrivingInfo

GG66 wrote:

That wasn't a question! If you read the thread I think it's quite clear what the Garda was thinking. He's speeding, stop him and give him a ticket.

I thought after taking the time to answer your questions you might have something constructive to add or why else would you ask???

Stop wasting my time, and add something constructive

I know it was condescending of me and I do apologise but the speed limit is the speed limit
You should not overtake if the car is only 5kph under the limit due to the fact that you will have to do about 30kph faster than them to overtake them safely


The Speed Limit while overtaking is the speed limit.

colm_mcm

DrivingInfo wrote:

The Speed Limit while overtaking is the speed limit.

I'm afraid that's about as constructive as it's gonna get. What a gem

DrivingInfo

I'm all for safer driving, it just bugs me that the Gardai always seem to be present on the best parts of our road network....while the minor roads provide more serious dangers[/QUOTE]

Ok what comes to mind here, M7 and M9 pileup

DrivingInfo

colm_mcm wrote:

I'm afraid that's about as constructive as it's gonna get. What a gem

Ok what is the speed limit while overtaking?

Idleater

GG66 wrote:

Thats possible why he was driving so close to the car in front? wind breaker?

Was it a big bike or a small bike?

You can get a decent tow from trucks etc, on the bike, but because you are higher up than the roofline of the cars, you don't get much of a draft. Highly dangerous and I would not recommend it at all.

L.

GG66

no worries, but by that logic no-one should ever overtake a car that is doing more than 70kph because

you will have to do about 30kph faster than them to overtake them safely

So everyone should drive around at 70kph for fear of breaking the speed limit??

GG66

It seemed like a low powered bike with two people on it.

Highly dangerous and I would not recommend it at all.

maybe the Garda should have stopped it but it's more fun chasing after a car half a mile ahead at spped than advising someone not to drive too close to the vehicle in front.