FF to drop Stamp Duty

ballooba

From Politics.ie:
http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=19649

Watch the change in tack from the FFers here now.

stepbar

Wow, they really are desperate. Do away with Stamp Duty and pay off the national debt in 5 years :eek: We may as well move to America right now because there's only one way this country is going if FF get back into power. Going Bankrupt....

ballooba

It does sound strange that they are proposing a refund of all stamp duty paid since April 1st though. Could it be a joke?

SeanW

It's a little late for April Fools ... unless they're actually serious :eek:

stepbar

Well considering they've been a bit of a joke since 1997, anythings possible...

Was there not a quote somewhere where Bertie said that he would not be getting involved in "auction politics"?

Dirk Gently

not sure how accurate that is, especially after just watching a web video of Brian Cowan on primetime tonight.

http://rte.ie/news/primetime/

Seth Brundle

Brian Cowen mentioned on Prime Time that they had something up their sleeve which would be revealed tomorrow.
Will they remove stamp duty on rented properties also?

ballooba

clown bag wrote:

not sure how accurate that is, especially after just watching a web video of Brian Cowan on primetime tonight.

http://rte.ie/news/primetime/

That's what makes it so funny.

Dirk Gently

ballooba wrote:

That's what makes it so funny.

If whats been said in that politics.ie thread is true,(back dating repayments too) Brian Cowan will be a laughing stock, and also, FF must believe they're in even more trouble than most people think. It's really amazing to even think this could be true. I had a feeling Cowan would have to make some sort of comprimise under pressure from within his own party, but to hang him out to dry like this is something I never saw coming.

I will be genuinely shocked beyond belief if this is announced tomorrow.

ballooba

Politics.ie will seriously lose face if it is false. Given that they are running with it on the homepage.

What are FF playing at? Are they actually trying to lose the election?

Dirk Gently

If true it will mean that bertie has destroyed the only real rock in his government. Cowan was always a great speaker and regularly makes mince meat out of opponents in debates. cowan must be gutted, I'd say there was internal war with cowan resisting this to the last before bertie finally pulled rank on him.

I was looking forward to the PD's not exisiting in any real sense after this election but this could really damage FF in a significant way too. (once rabbit / kenny actually put the boot in and don't let cowan talk his way out of it)

The_Minister

ballooba wrote:

What are FF playing at? Are they actually trying to lose the election?

I've noticed that recently too. They're not even making the effort. I can't help wondering if they know something we don't.....

Jonny Arson

If it is true, they had 5 f**king years to do something on Stamp Duty but they didn't. Low and behold they do it 3 weeks before the election :rolleyes: I wouldn't put it past them to pull this.

The_Minister

clown bag wrote:

I was looking forward to the PD's not exisiting in any real sense after this election

They were told last time to expect two seats, they rose to eight, with the roughly the same polling as now,. They may lose a seat or two, but they aren't going anywhere.

Dirk Gently

The_Minister wrote:

They may lose a seat or two, but they aren't going anywhere.

out of government will do for me.

Dirk Gently

By Harry McGee, Political Editor
FIANNA Fáil will this morning promise to abolish stamp duty for all first-time buyers in a dramatic policy shift that it hopes will divert attention away from the controversy surrounding the finances of Taoiseach Bertie Ahern.

link
http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=31862-qqqx=1.asp

stepbar

stepbar wrote:

there's only one way this country is going if FF get back into power. Going Bankrupt....

Yeah, because like the last 10 years have been so bad, compared to the golden era 1982-1987. Everyone's leaving now, remember in the 80s when hundreds of thousands flocked to this country looking for work and everyone had a job?

Fine Gael have a lot to answer for in the current housing crisis. There is no doubt but that their comments about stamp duty have contributed to the freefall in the market at the moment, the simple fact is that the housing market has collapsed and Fine Gael have made a healthy contribution to that. The situation, even at the end of last year, was very different, and anyone remotely connected with the property market will tell you that. Compare stats on sales between last Autumn and this Spring and it is clear that the market has completely changed. Stuff like 'they had 5 years to do it' completely ignores those changes.

Cardinal

Yes, of course it was Fine Gaels comments which caused the property market to start dropping. Nothing to do with those in government making actual decisions.

The real question is not why is the propert market currently falling, but why was it allowed to get so bloody high in the first place. Anyone in their first year of business in secondary school will tell you that a market cannot continue to rise indefinately. Something should have been done to slow the rise to more sustainable level. Letting it rocket up like it did in the last few years was asking for trouble.

Seth Brundle

@Conor74 - IIRC it was Michael McDowell's comments prior to the last budget

ixoy

Has anyone questioned them on how this measure isn't going to affect the majority of FTBs? Or do they think most FTBs are in a position to shell out over €317k?

Jonny Arson

This has to be one of the most hilarious u-turns at any election. A few weeks ago Cowen waffling about how any changes in stamp duty will completely destroy the market and calling FF/Lab irresponsible and now just look. Brian Cowen has zero credibility now, it is complete and utter desperation from Fíanna Fáil, they know they're losing this election. Whatever policies they have had have been trumped the oppositon and are doing whatever is possible to steal this election. After 5 years of eating up first time buyers stamp duty payments I find what they're doing 3 weeks before the election absolutely sick.

Either way folks, if FF or FG are elected were gonna have 1977 all over again.

Deleted User wrote:

Fine Gael have a lot to answer for in the current housing crisis. There is no doubt but that their comments about stamp duty have contributed to the freefall in the market at the moment, the simple fact is that the housing market has collapsed and Fine Gael have made a healthy contribution to that.

:rolleyes: I know you're a Fíanna Fáiler so that type of nonsensical delusionary spin is only to be expected, but these are FACTS - House prices have been falling since last summer long before the words stamp duty came out any FG or McDowell's mouths. House prices are falling simple because we are in a housing bubble that has been left grow and grow under Fíanna Fáil's watch because they didn't want to interfere with their billionaire housing developer buddies building endless amounts of crap unplanned lego shoeboxes across the county which are at astronomical prices

Deleted User wrote:

The situation, even at the end of last year, was very different, and anyone remotely connected with the property market will tell you that. Compare stats on sales between last Autumn and this Spring and it is clear that the market has completely changed. Stuff like 'they had 5 years to do it' completely ignores those changes.

I've seen the stats, they were falling anyway and falling at similar rates month and month. The ''stamp duty causing the housing slump'' issue is a complete and utter red herring, sure it hasn't helped confidence but it is only accelerating what is already going to happen.

kbannon wrote:

@Conor74 - IIRC it was Michael McDowell's comments prior to the last budget

Again, as much as McDowell isn't my cup of tea - His comments have had NOTHING to do with the housing market freefall.

cavedave

Mortgage interest relief is hardly the most progressive tax.
It helps you if you can afford a mortgage, poor people cannot. They can afford for their tax money to reduce the amount of interest I pay on my mortgage though. Thanks for that. While they are paying my mortgage could they also give me a few quid for a new car and maybe a yacht?

Ardent

Give it a rest Conor, you're not fooling anyone anymore.

Jonny Arson

cavedave wrote:

Mortgage interest relief is hardly the most progressive tax.
It helps you if you can afford a mortgage, poor people cannot. They can afford for their tax money to reduce the amount of interest I pay on my mortgage though. Thanks for that. While they are paying my mortgage could they also give me a few quid for a new car and maybe a yacht?

Exactly. The whole stamp duty issue has been completely overblown, these changes will affect few people. Whoever benefits from it will almost certainly pay it back be it through stealth taxes or general increases elsewhere. It still shouldn't be touched by either FF or FG/Lab, whoever is in the next government will be desperately needing whatever stamp duty returns they can get when the property market crashes.

is_that_so

Jonny Arson wrote:

Either way folks, if FF or FG are elected were gonna have 1977 all over again.

I'd be surprised if it did . There are huge differences now. One the big deals about 77 was the abolition of rates and not finding any funding to replace it.

All the same going back to past times, certainly any time before the nineties really does not offer any useful comparison given how much everything has changed.

I am not at all surprised at the "U-turn" , seeing as everyone else is offering the same thing. But I reckon that Cowen had nothing to do with it.

As some posters have observed elsewhere, whatever we choose it will be more or less the same type of policies. What we will be looking for is the approach to government.

LostinBlanch

This isn't going to affect many people as how many FTBs actually pay stamp duty? And as ixoy said, could they afford more than €317K with rising interest rates anyway? Desperate attempt to deflect attention away from Bertiegate.

@ KBannon will they reduce stamp duty on rented property!

Villain

What in the name of god are FF doing, I know they needed to deflect from Bertie's issues but this U-Turn is biazzre to say the least.

I mean Brian Cowen's comments now look nothing more than silly, they must be getting bad feedback on the door steps to try and buy the election with this stunt.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote:

Fine Gael have a lot to answer for in the current housing crisis. There is no doubt but that their comments about stamp duty have contributed to the freefall in the market at the moment, the simple fact is that the housing market has collapsed and Fine Gael have made a healthy contribution to that.

I don't agree.I think it would be better to describe what they and initially the pd's did as actually somewhat of a good thing.It forced people to reflect on what they were going to pay for a house and secondly it injected some much needed realism into house sellers expectations.

The situation, even at the end of last year, was very different, and anyone remotely connected with the property market will tell you that. Compare stats on sales between last Autumn and this Spring and it is clear that the market has completely changed. Stuff like 'they had 5 years to do it' completely ignores those changes.

Why on earth would anyone have proposed stamp duty reform 10 years ago or even 7 or 8 when money was being handed out willy nilly and at a time when one of the few things stopping some people from buying was their hope prices would fall which they never did.
No party needed or saw the need to mess with the great government stamp duty earner for most of the last decade because things were for the most part rosy.

I can see some logic in Biffo's u turn in that at least they are the first party to put a definite date on a stamp duty proposal.
Fine Gael have given no date blaming some ridiculous cop out notion that you dont mention budget details before a budget.

At least if you knew FF were to be back and they implimented this and since its back dated,then you could buy a house now as a first time buyer and know you'd be paying no stamp duty.

I don't see them getting re elected though.
That said Biffo was way better than Richard Bruton,I thought, on primetime last night,he's got the lawyer brain when it comes to debate.

raven136

Anyone listen to rte's live streaming of the manifesto launch.Vincent Browne tore Bertie to pieces and its not looking good for their stamp duty publicity

OTK

Say you have never bought a house but you inherited a house worth 500k in Dublin from your parents. You have a joint income with your wife of 100K. Now you can buy a million euro house with no stamp duty.

Ardent

Ardent wrote:

Give it a rest Conor, you're not fooling anyone anymore.

I appreciate that a percentage of the electorate is foaming at the mouth to have a go at FF, even at the expense of logic.

If anyone cares to read my post, I was blaming FG for contibuting to the collapse in the housing market, not for causing it.

raven136

raven136 wrote:

Vincent Browne tore Bertie to pieces

As part of Vincent's campaign to single-handedly change Irish society, or a new project?

Judt

Phew, talk about a U-Turn alright. Though funny to see government ministers saying "no no, it's what we'd planned to do all along." But minister, just last week you clearly said... "NO NO! That's not what I said!!!"

FF must really think they're in trouble, but we could all be screwed if they start throwing the sound foundations of our economy out the window just to win an election.

ateam

FF have made the sensible decision reacting to save the market. Unfortunately, other parties including the PD's kickstarted the stamp duty worries and it has an effect on the market. FF are acting correctly.

Seth Brundle

FF are not reacting to the market - they are reacting to negative publicity about allegations made against their leader in the run up to an election. They stated several times in recent months about how they would not unbalance the market by playing with SD.

raven136

kbannon wrote:

FF are not reacting to the market - they are reacting to negative publicity about allegations made against their leader in the run up to an election. They stated several times in recent months about how they would not unbalance the market by playing with SD.

...very true,Paddy Powers(not that reliable i know,but when did you last see a poor bookie)have installed the alternative coalition as favourites.Bertie is under severe pressure and influential journalists aint helping him.
Who knows the sindo might back Bertie this sunday,now that he has reacted to their months of stamp duty reform campaigning

Judt

ateam wrote:

FF have made the sensible decision reacting to save the market. Unfortunately, other parties including the PD's kickstarted the stamp duty worries and it has an effect on the market. FF are acting correctly.

If by market you mean opinion polls... Stamp Duty issue itself is more a political one, it'll be a good move economically. But if they start selling the furniture to pay for the house then we're going to be in trouble by the time this election campaign is over. They'll give away everything they want to govern to get into government.

Villain

Anyone know where I can get a listen of the launch with Vincent Brownes questions?

raven136

irish1 wrote:

Anyone know where I can get a listen of the launch with Vincent Brownes questions?

Try the rte website,i got it live there this morning

Seth Brundle

I think this might be it...http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0503/election1_av.html?2244681,242,209

Zambia

ateam wrote:

FF have made the sensible decision reacting to save the market. Unfortunately, other parties including the PD's kickstarted the stamp duty worries and it has an effect on the market. FF are acting correctly.

Only a few months ago FF announced a budget ,if in FF's opinion the market needed saving and this could have saved it.

Well the last budget was the time to do it.

This announcement at this time is pure prostition for votes.

raven136

raven136 wrote:

...very true,Paddy Powers(not that reliable i know,but when did you last see a poor bookie)have installed the alternative coalition as favourites.Bertie is under severe pressure and influential journalists aint helping him.

And who is favourite to become next Taoiseach?

AS of yesterday, it was still comfortably Ahern.

Seth Brundle

hmmm, watch this space

Sniipe

I am only after hearing the news myself having watched the stream on RTE. I'm delighted! I just bought a 2nd hand house with stamp duty on it in the city. And on top of this an extra 2000 per year for couples. We're delighted. FF & Labour have my vote and then some to the greens.

This announcement at this time is pure prostition for votes.

Of course the election is all about getting votes, its all about giving the people what they want. Some people want what they are offering so they vote for them...

nacho libre

What was it Brian Cowen said recently about this issue?? I like the way FF supporters are spinning this as being done solely for economic reasons.;)

SkepticOne

Sniipe wrote:

I am only after hearing the news myself having watched the stream on RTE. I'm delighted! I just bought a 2nd hand house with stamp duty on it in the city. And on top of this an extra 2000 per year for couples. We're delighted. FF & Labour have my vote and then some to the greens..

Who says you can't buy votes?

Glenbhoy

Deleted User wrote:

And who is favourite to become next Taoiseach?

AS of yesterday, it was still comfortably Ahern.

Comfortably Conor??
As of this morning with betfair it was:
Ahern 1.95
Kenny 2.24

There's nothing in it, but this announcement may just be the beginning of the end, I can't see FF turning it around now - what are they thinking? Kenny is doing a good job, by simply keeping a low profile, whilst every time Bertie opens his mouth he makes a bigger gaffe. It'll be interesting anyway.

Glenbhoy

Sniipe wrote:

I am only after hearing the news myself having watched the stream on RTE. I'm delighted! I just bought a 2nd hand house with stamp duty on it in the city. And on top of this an extra 2000 per year for couples. We're delighted. FF & Labour have my vote and then some to the greens.


Of course the election is all about getting votes, its all about giving the people what they want. Some people want what they are offering so they vote for them...

Unfortunately for FF there are not many people for whom today's announcement will make any difference at all.

Sniipe

Exactly SkepticOne ^^ he certainly bought mine Only thing I'm worried about for furture house buyers is that the house price may go up anyway to what it would have been with the stamp duty...

I've never been as interested in an election this is fantastic... so close

Colonel Sanders

Deleted User wrote:

And who is favourite to become next Taoiseach?

AS of yesterday, it was still comfortably Ahern.

ladbrokes 'the magic sign' have both Kenny & Aherne priced up at 5/6 (i.e each outcomes as likely as the other). The best price enda kenny I can find is 11/10 (i.e. just under a 50% chance) after being 11/4 with hills only 2 months ago.

Not so comfortable now eh?

Colonel Sanders

sorry Glenbhoy, only saw your post now. My odds are from conventional bookies and not the exchanges.