The Proposed new High Content Sub Forum: Some thoughts

Ste05

OK since the discussion about the state of the Poker forum seems to have died down lately, I thought I'd just start a discussion about the next stage:

Based on this thread it seems a High Content Sub-Forum seems to be what the majority of posters want.

Here's some of my thoughts on how this Forum might work. [Disclaimer: I don't know if all these proposals are actually possible but anyway]:

1. Everyone should be allowed to reply to posts in the Forum, but not everyone can start threads in the forum.
2. People must apply to be allowed to start threads in the forum. (I would propose a simple sticky asking for permission to Start threads, obviously most of the regulars will be automatically given this right upon asking, e.g. HJ, Fuzz, Cardshark, Valor, etc. etc. etc. etc. (we all know who these people are)
3. An unknown poster can apply for permission either on the back of some analysis in the main forum (that demonstrates their knowledge of the game) or in replies in this new forum once 2 *Approved* posters/ mods second and third him. Alternatively they can write a piece on any aspect of Poker that if of a sufficient standard they will be granted posting rights. And this post will be moved to the new forum for discussion.
4. There would be a sticky in the forum where beginners or inexperienced posters can ask for topics be discussed. If there isn't a thread on a topic that some people feel will be interesting this would be the thread where they ask for someone to start a discussion. Whoever then decides to start a discussion would do so as they think best demonstrates the point be it based on a HH or just on a general level
5. The title of each thread will start with a general area the thread relates to, e.g. [Cash Game] [STT] [MTT] [General Theory] more to be decided upon. This will allow the forum to be sorted by name and therefore group the topics that a person might be searching for/ interested in.
6. There can be no off-topic discussion in this forum, every post must be strictly on-topic. This way every thread will keep it's high content.
7. There can be no 1 or 2 word replies, every post must be accompanied by an explanation as to why a person would act in a certain way. A full and detailed explanation is not needed, but some back-up or reasoning must be provided, however brief and repetitive.
8. This forum will not be newbie friendly and so a thick skin is essential if making a post. This forum is not designed to help new players learn the game, it will be for advanced concepts and in depth discussion to take place. The main forum and it's stickies provide ample information for new players. Obviously usual forum rules and it'll be strictly attack the post not the poster but there will be no need to sugar coat things and trolls will be banned quickly.

I'm sure there's alot more things that will pop into my head but I think I'll just get the discussion started. As I say I don't know if this (2.) possible but I just think if we are to have a High Content Forum it needs to have some strict rules in place or else it will just dilute the main forum and we'll just have 2 messy Poker forums.

I'm also not sure about the last point, I think it will either make the forum a battleground full of trolls or else might work and keep the noise down, strong modding will obviously be needed (luckily we have some of the best around) and if obviously incorrect theory is posted it will be quickly shot down.

5starpool

I don't know if some aspects to this are possible??? It also sounds very mod heavy, and there might not be enough in the way of mods at present to perform this level of policing. I agree that if this is created (by no means certain it seems) then it will need to be an on topic place, but there are kinks that need to be ironed out really.

shoutman

I like the idea and I think there is no problem with getting more mods for it if neccessary.... P_L lives on here!

Mellor

Sounds like a nice idea, lets hope its possible,
als if (2) works, then surely trolling wont be possible.

[edit] trolls dont have to start the threads, i somehow forgot it.

Also I dont think it should be a case were it becomes "we are elite, our HHs go here", regular HHs should be in the regular forum, HH that are always leading on to high content should do in, i'd actual like to see alot of articles, concept threads, rather than loads of HHs, and would rather the HHs kept to a min (they can be noise too)

5starpool

Not that you would know it at times, but they can be quite picky about mods on this site. I don't think people with red hair and a ponytail qualify...

Ste05

I think intitially it will probably be mod heavy setting it up alright, but after a while I would have thought it should calm down and should run smoothly enough. An off-topic forum would still be my personal preference but since I'm in the minority I thought I'd keep the debate moving along. And I'm sure some of it is impossible but I thought I'd post an outline to my ideal and see what's possible and what's not and move from there.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

breadmonkey

Ste05 wrote:

An off-topic forum would still be my personal preference but since I'm in the minority I thought I'd keep the debate moving along

I really don't think the poker forum regulars deserve an off topic forum. After all, there is all the rest of boards.ie!

Ste05

Mellor wrote:

[edit] trolls dont have to start the threads, i somehow forgot it.

Also I dont think it should be a case were it becomes "we are elite, our HHs go here", regular HHs should be in the regular forum, HH that are always leading on to high content should do in, i'd actual like to see alot of articles, concept threads, rather than loads of HHs, and would rather the HHs kept to a min (they can be noise too)

My fear of trolls is more in their replies to threads then in setting up trolling threads. Also for HH's usual analysis of hands would stay in the main forum, but certain concepts are often best discussed by using a HH to start a discussion on the topic.

Ste05

breadmonkey wrote:

I really don't think the poker forum regulars deserve an off topic forum. After all, there is all the rest of boards.ie!

Sorry I didn't mean just a bland off-topic forum, I more meant an Irish Poker community forum, but anyway that idea is dead, so there's no need to discuss it further here. There's a thread in the Forums forum and another one in this forum for discussion of that point. Apologies for bringing it up, I didn't mean to start a discussion on that point or to drag it back up here.

shoutman

I presume all, how did I play this hand kind of threads wouldnt go into this proposed higher content thread, more so it would be hand histories that are interesting and profitable, but not the standard play.

phantom_lord

I like the idea very much.

+1 for support.

Goodluck2me

UnLuckyLloyd wrote:

sticks hand up to mod if needs be...

I disagree... maybe a little too inappropriate FWOABW imo.

*slinks back slowly and quietly out the back door*

LuckyLloyd

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shoutman

For want of a better word. Now back on topic please....

5starpool is their any word at all on whether there will be another subforum within poker... or is it completely undecided.

5starpool

No idea. These things are decided way above my head.

Mellor

Shoutman wrote:

I presume not all, how did I play this hand kind of threads wouldnt go into this proposed higher content thread, more so it would be hand histories that are interesting and profitable, but not the standard play.

Fyp?

cardshark202

I thought Nialls idea was pretty good. That add-on yoke would do the job.

robinlacey

this sounds like a good idea

Imposter

shoutman wrote:

I presume all, how did I play this hand kind of threads wouldnt go into this proposed higher content thread, more so it would be hand histories that are interesting and profitable, but not the standard play.

I'm not sure! Under Ste's system anyone allowed to start a thread would think that their HH was the most important one ever and of course they'd post it there as they'd assume they'd get *proper* strategy advice. You'd have to be able to take away poster's permission from starting new threads as well!

And even then such a decision to remove a poster's thread starting rights is left to the mods, which is quite frankly a thankless job. What one person might think of as an interesting strategy post another might see as *standard*. Plus Marq could never say *move up levels*.

Ste05

I have thoughts on that point, but I won't post them yet, I think it's better to get other people's opinions on the possible forum first. This was just an initial outline to hopefully get discussion started. Everyone should pick it apart and improve it where they see problems.

Also does anyone know if this idea is even possible on vBulletin??

I'm going to bump the other thread to ask a Q about Niall's idea.

smurph

Im not sure I like the idea of this at all. Maybe this forum has a watered down content over the last couple of months because of its popularity, but the reason for its popularity is because it's a friendly enough (actually used to be a bit more friendly) site for the new players .

Just start a thread section like the bad beat section where the professional players can post hands, for analysis etc., It seems obvious that the better posters here are full time poker player = longer hours more poker, more hands for discussion etc., Im not saying that you have to be professional player to post in the section but its quite obvious that the top 10% of indepth posts come from the professional players. (waffly sentence but you get what I mean).

I feel it is bad for the forum to be honost, we should be helping new players and encouraging them to put posts up, instead of making them feel that their post has to cut the "Mustard" so to speak (sorry Mods)....

Maybe im one of the white noise people, so be it, i'll back off lurk in the bad beat section etc.,

Also I feel asking a Mod to decide if the content is worth posting is a bit strange, unless the are a professional playing, playing high standards etc.,

Mr.Plough

i like the idea, the only thing im worried about is that when the top boards players log on, they'll go straight to the high content forum as its contents is alot more relative to the level that they're at, therefore when a learning player posts HH's in the main forum they may miss out on some of the best analysis.

Ste05

This isn't the thread for discussing the merits of the forum. I've just bumped the one for discussing that. This is just to see how this new forum will work if it gets approval from up on high.

But in a quick reply [EDIT: to smurph], the main forum will still be there for all new players.

Jesus Wept

ste05 wrote:

My fear of trolls is more in their replies to threads then in setting up trolling threads

Can someone enlighten me to what trolls and trolling is, I still have no idea no matter how many times I see it around boards...

smurph

Fair enough,
leaving the thread so.

DeadParrot

I've a mixed bag of opinions on this.

One one hand i'm sure it will improve the quality of posts but on the other I wouldn't like this place turning into a 2+2 clone with the dreaded forum 'cliques'


If/When it does come about it will have to be carefully looked at to avoid the pitfalls mentioned in other posts about scaring off new blood.

5starpool

The-Rigger wrote:

Can someone enlighten me to what trolls and trolling is, I still have no idea no matter how many times I see it around boards...

A troll is someone who deliberately posts a remark to get a certain response from people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

Iago

DeadParrot wrote:

I wouldn't like this place turning into a 2+2 clone with the dreaded forum 'cliques'

lol

5starpool

If people genuinely want something to come of this issue then I wouldn't let the thread in the forums forum drop too far down the list.

Marq

UnLuckyLloyd wrote:

*Nods furiously at Ste's points and sticks hand up to mod if needs be...

Sticking one's hand up to mod a forum is usually a precursor to the mods deciding that you will never be a mod.

LuckyLloyd

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yahoo_moe

Ste05 wrote:

Based on this thread it seems a High Content Sub-Forum seems to be what the majority of posters want.

Yes, the high content theory sub-forum option got most votes individually in the poll but it's only a third of the votes cast overall. And together the first two options (extremely similar) got about the same number of votes. Maybe a majoriy of posters but certainly not a majoriy of the posters who actually voted

Personally, I agree with those who think that what you're proposing is a bit 'them and us' (in terms of some people being worthy of starting threads there and others not being) and I don't think it's really needed anyway.

If the category thing is possible, I think that looks good but even if it's not, there's nothing stopping 'high content' threads at the moment (if anyone can actually agree what exactly that is) - if they're kept alive, they'll always be on the front page anyway... or, if they're slow burners with replies a bit fewer and further between, just set up a 'high content' sticky with links to key threads so they're always easily accessible...

Ste05

This isn't what this thread is about either, but I'll address it anyway. If you lump the first 2 together (No new forum) you get 36 Votes, if you lump the 3 proposals together for new forums you get 70 Votes, with 10 abstainers, that comes to 60% in favour of a change, 31% in favour of no change and 9% abstaining. So the majority is in favour of a change, and of that majority most prefer a High Content forum (which I personally wasn't in favour of), hence this thread to try and work out how such a forum would work in practice. Boards.ie is not a democracy and the Admin's rule it with an iron fist, but as I've said before I'm just trying to keep this thing moving, if we get a definitive "No" then we can just go along our merry way and that will be the end of it, but until then, I'd just like to try and iron out the kinks.

In relation to your point about the "them" and "us", this is only in regards to "Starting" new threads, anyone can post replies, join in the discussion and apply to be allowed to start threads. We just do not want new comers coming along thinking the merits of folding AA pre-flop or folding top set on a drawing board for fear of getting outdrawn is worthy of a High Content thread. The common sense of the regulars I'd have hoped would cut down on the mods needing to be constantly screening all threads to check for "High Content". This is also what the sticky at the top of the forum would be for, where topics people would like to see discussed are posted.

Also, people seem to think the main forum will all of a sudden not exist any more, it will be exactly the same as it is now, except a very small % of threads will be moved over to this forum. In fact I think a harsher, more robust forum such as this will actually encourage more threads and discussions that at present would just get diluted in the main forum.

Also as I've said loads of times by now, this is just some thoughts on how to proceed. So if anyone else has any other points on how a proposed "High Content" forum would work let them be known.

peaderfi

What about having a High Content Sub Forum but instead of only allowing certain people to post in the forum have it so that noone can post in it. Instead people post as normal in the main forum and every month some threads from the main forum which have "High Content" in them are nominated to go into the sub forum. Then there is a vote on which ones should go in and which ones shouldn't. These threads can then be monitored and improved by normal members, additionally any trolling behaviour etc would get peoples replying rights to the threads in the sub forum removed.

This way their is no real eliteism about only some people having posting rights in the sub forum. and whats more there is less work for the mods to decide who has posting rights and who doesn't.

5starpool

That certainly won't workj as it would not allow discussions to be resurrected, as sometimes happens.

peaderfi

why wouldn't it allow discussions to be resurrected? i mean everyone could still reply to the posts in the high content forum and as such resurrect them. so i don't see a problem with that. just that people can't make new threads in the sub forum that they would have to be voted in

Ste05

peadarfi,

have you seen this thread, it groups all the best threads in one place and is basically what you are proposing as far as I can see:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=318504#post52602978

peaderfi

no i hadn't seen it, but that thread really gets rid of the need for a high content sub forum because any high content threads as such would just need to be updated to that thread

Scouser in Dub

As an inexperienced player who is interested in improving my game and also reading the views of those that have much to offer I have no issue whatever with a high strategy subforum. Whether this requires the more inexperienced players like myself developing a thick skin is moot. It could and indeed should be a forum where topics are restricted and I would support all of the suggestions made by the OP here.

As far as cliques go they are inevitable on any forum a high content strategy forum would do more to mitigate this than encourage it

LuckyLloyd

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LuckyLloyd

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shoutman

UnLuckyLloyd wrote:

This new forum can include HHs from the more reputable posters. It should probably include most Omaha threads initially as the general forum knowledge on the game doesn't seem to be good. Same for other variations. In my view it should not include:

ruling questions;
questions about bonus whoring / rakeback;
trip reports;
stuff to do with poker on TV;
technology questions; standard line checks;
threads on the difference between six - max and full ring;
questions on the difference between live and online poker;
Poker in Vegas/London/insert place here threads;
etc, etc.

Any talk about an "us and them" problem is rubbish. I want to learn from "them" and think it is vital that they are provided the space to discuss the game in depth and that they know where to go if they have some interesting strategic discussions to tease out.

So +1 on support for Ste's idea.

I agree wholeheartedly with the above, obvioulsy I would like any non hold 'em discussions to be clearly marked as I would imagine the vast majority of viewers would not know how to play omaha/low ball etc nevermind want to read about advanced thoughts on the subject.

Ste05

Yeah some nice additions there Lloyd, we could just lable Omaha threads etc. [PLO]; [Stud Hi]; etc. as part of my sorting catagories.

Any other suggestions for category seperations??

DeadParrot

Ste05 wrote:

Yeah some nice additions there Lloyd, we could just lable Omaha threads etc. [PLO]; [Stud Hi]; etc. as part of my sorting catagories.

Any other suggestions for category seperations??

Excellent idea Ste....mostly done already but it would be good to standardize it.

As for sub forum definitions.
PLO
NLHE
PLHE (Live SE/Fitz stuff probably)
Other poker variations
Tourneys
The hallowed metagame ( where the really good stuff would be )
and have the general poker forum for newbie posts, general questions, trip reports, rakeback etc. as llyod alluded to.

luckylucky

I think the sub-forum is definitely a good idea in principle, like a few others here I have a little weariness about it getting too cliquey but at the same time I think the poker forum here has gotten big enough to warrant one or more sub forums. I've definitely seen some good posts just drift off the radar due to getting swamped by the volume of less weighty posts.

pok3rplaya

pok3rplaya says YES

Marq

Ste05 wrote:

[*]The title of each thread will start with a general area the thread relates to, e.g. [Cash Game] [STT] [MTT] [General Theory] more to be decided upon. This will allow the forum to be sorted by name and therefore group the topics that a person might be searching for/ interested in.

this is an absolutely fantastic idea.
It would work perfectly in the main forum!
Strategy posts could be tagged a la ste and lloyd's recommendations, and the rest could be untagged or just labelled "[LOW CONTENT]" or "[BOLLOCKS (Standard)]"
it strikes me that there's no need for this retarded self-congratulating "high-content" sub-forum after all.

califano

Marq wrote:

this is an absolutely fantastic idea.
It would work perfectly in the main forum!

it strikes me that there's no need for this retarded self-congratulating "high-content" sub-forum after all.

.

valor

#7 There can be no 1 or 2 word replies, every post must be accompanied by an explanation as to why a person would act in a certain way. A full and detailed explanation is not needed, but some back-up or reasoning must be provided, however brief and repetitive.

I like this in general but I totally disagree with this point \o/

redzerdrog

in before lock!!!:D