Students Disenfranchised

ella minnow pea

I'm fuming :mad: having just found out that I will be unable to vote in the General Election.

I'm a final year student from Galway, living and studying in Dublin at the moment. When I heard that the election was called for a Thursday I was a little put out as it meant I would be unable to travel home to vote. Many of my friends will also have exams that day. I still figured I could register for a postal vote...

BUT today I find out that I can't, because postal votes must be registered at least 15 days before the election i.e. tomorrow evening!! Since I didn't get to find the forms required online, print them, get them signed by the college registar and then post them home today, I will be denied a voice in choosing the next government of my country.

Everyone talks about the political apathy among young people, is it any wonder when we get treated like we don't exist??

karen3212

You can still register tomorrow in the Local area where you are studying. You will need either RFA3 form if you need to change address and are already registered at Home, and rfa2 if you are registering - your name will go on the supplement to the electoral register.

If you miss a classes tomorrow, do you think it will be worth it?

www.citizensinformation.ie

ella minnow pea

Thanks very the info, very helpful, I'll pass it on to the student reps

karen3212

Hi other people have also suggested that you get a receipt when you hand your form in - might be and idea

tenandtracer

I totally sympathize with students on this and am totally disgusted by our illustrious leader with this stunt. The Thursday election day puts those doing exams in a real fix.
I teach in a certain Dublin university and would totally understand if any student had to miss a class to register, I'm sure (hope) many of my colleagues would as well.

Ste.phen

Of course I agree in principle with the Thursday = Sneaky aspect here, but surely the specific date this time around doesn't prevent a huge problem, don't most colleges break up before that? Or at least finish lectures before that?

Dave!

The height of sneakiness

brianthebard

NUI exams will be on, which makes it even less likely that students will be able to vote. I wouldn't mind missing a lecture or two, but not my finals! Fortunately I will be finished in time and able to go home, but many, perhaps most, will not.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Is there some big reason why online voting could never work? Just seems like we should be doing it by now.

Oirthir

AFAIK you have until close of business, so in theory you could get forms in the morning, bring them to College Registrar (or whoever you have to) then go to your SU or a college office and fax them to the relevant county council.

swiss

The height of sneakiness

I too am exceptionally pissed off at this. I've moved up to Dublin a few months ago, and moved again only a few weeks ago from north to south Dublin, so I saw little point in re-registering in that constituency. In order for me to go home to Waterford and vote I will have to take the Friday off work and travel home (early-ish) on the Thursday to make it for the polling booth Thursday evening. Thumbs down to Bertie on this one.

Bottle_of_Smoke

have they given any sort of explanation as to why it's not a saturday, I would be well pissed off if I wasn't able to get to my polling station

Dontico

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

have they given any sort of explanation as to why it's not a saturday, I would be well pissed off if I wasn't able to get to my polling station

Yeah have given an excellent one at that. Why in Gods name would a party that on several occasions tried to distrupt the democratic process in 32', 37', 58', 68', 73'; would want the demographic(young people) that dislike them most to vote?

StephenRyan

For some reason you're not allowed to do a student postal vote unless you're studying at an "institution in the state".

I'm studying in England, but I can't see any reason why that should disallow my vote.

Gah...

Agent J

Seriously if i hear one more student about this without mentioning the fact they they are getting an RA3 form to change address...

Form RA3 and change to where you are living.

Then give it to the government between the eyes and get everyone else to do it.

Also fact of the matter is no matter when they hold its going to affect some people.

oscarBravo

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Is there some big reason why online voting could never work?

Lots, all to do with the importance of a public secret ballot. A topic for another thread.

Time Magazine

brianthebard wrote:

NUI exams will be on.

As will Trinity's.

The reason why student voters have to be in an institution in the state is the fairly logical idea that non-residents can't vote. Otherwise you'd have a pile of Yanks with Irish parents voting.

schween

Why can't students register to vote where they're studying? I'm studying in Galway for the last 4 years and I registered to vote ages ago. It's not as if I'm living back home so I don't see any point in me voting for politicians there as I don't live there. Also, this election has been coming for years...why leave it so late to register? ?
I do agree that the election should be held on Saturday or Sunday though.

Time Magazine

You can register in your college residence's constituency. Most people, myself included, would rather vote in their home town though.

schween

I know you can. You can register whereever you live....I'm just puzzled as to why they want to elect politicians to an area where they don't live

Time Magazine

They could be moving back there for the rest of their lives in six months.

gilroyb

StephenRyan wrote:

For some reason you're not allowed to do a student postal vote unless you're studying at an "institution in the state".

I'm studying in England, but I can't see any reason why that should disallow my vote.

Gah...

Ibid wrote:

The reason why student voters have to be in an institution in the state is the fairly logical idea that non-residents can't vote. Otherwise you'd have a pile of Yanks with Irish parents voting.

Ibid wrote:

They could be moving back there for the rest of their lives in six months.

Hence why can't those studying abroad for a year or four not do the same? If I'm away doing a masters in England for a year, why should I not have a postal vote for my home constituency still?

I think students should probably be encouraged to register in their new constituency while they're living there, it might even help improve university appeals for funding if those going for election know a large number of voters in a concentrated area are motivated by the issue. As it is now, parties know that extra funding for Trinity, UCD, etc, may appeal to the student voter (which isn't the same as all students with a vote by any means), but that this already reduced group is further dissipated by the fact they cast their votes across the 26 counties rather than a power that could be focused in the few Dublin races.

fuinneamh

The thursday election doesn't affect me but it does affect my sister. Family are fuming over it so you can be sure thats 4 votes fianna fail ain't getting.

ella minnow pea

schween wrote:

I know you can. You can register whereever you live....I'm just puzzled as to why they want to elect politicians to an area where they don't live

Exactly. I don't vote along party lines, and I want to vote in the place I'll be living for the duration of the next government - hence the discontent. I do have a change of address form but this isn't my constituency.

So just to recap: exams are on in NUI colleges, Trinity, and DCU during election day.

I understand that people would be put out whatever day was chosen, it just seems really illogical to me.

Cheers for the responses everyone, glad to see I'm not the only one annoyed.

stepbar

Leaving students aside for a moment, is there any particular reason why the election CAN'T be on a Saturday?

Aside from cost (which as far as I'm concerned is not a proper reason)

cast_iron

karen3212 wrote:

You can still register tomorrow in the Local area where you are studying. You will need either RFA3 form if you need to change address and are already registered at Home, and rfa2 if you are registering - your name will go on the supplement to the electoral register.

www.citizensinformation.ie

That citizens info site is a load of cack!

If you are already registered, and want to exercise your postal vote in your OWN constituency, then you need to send in a PV2 form (stamped by your college) by close of business tomorrow to your local county council, ie. by fax.

Murt10

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

have they given any sort of explanation as to why it's not a saturday, I would be well pissed off if I wasn't able to get to my polling station

You don't really believe that the established parties want students to vote do you? Students are seen as young idealists who are (used to be anyway or so it seemed) always protesting about something.

They would be expected to all vote for the Greens or the Shinners.

They will get their chance to vote soon enough, when they are working and paying taxes. Then, once they are paying through increased taxation for any improvements they are now demanding, their views and allegiances will change.

Likewise, the establishment doesn't want poor people to vote. Again they would be expected to vote for Sinn Fein or some other radical group. If they really wanted everyone to vote they would give everyone who voted a E50 or E100 voucher to spend wherever they liked when they were casting their vote. If they did this there would be queues at the polling stations all day (many looking to go off on the razz after voting).

Given that many candidates scrape in on the last count, with very few votes between them and the people they ghave defeated, having a large number of new unhappy voters exercising their right to vote would completely upset the status quo, so they'll leave well enough alone.

ballooba

Murt10 wrote:

You don't really believe that the established parties want students to vote do you? Students are seen as young idealists who are (used to be anyway or so it seemed) always protesting about something.

That stereotype is hilarious. I would think students who are politically active are a small minority.

Murt10 wrote:

They would be expected to all vote for the Greens or the Shinners.

We would be happy if they voted for the Greens as long as they vote.

is_that_so

Morning Ireland had a piece on it today which suggested that all students can register. It's not available yet but should be some time after 11. It's almost the last item on the programme if you download the full podcast. Link. Do it today!

Checked my exam timetable and I don't have an exam on the 24th (or 25th), so I'll happily find time to vote.

is_that_so

Morning Ireland piece on postal voting is now available on RTE site

ella minnow pea

Thanks for the Morning Ireland link.

I'm off to look for a fax machine...

Dontico

I have an exam. But I can make it on time. But there are others who cant. If the gov doesnt allow one person to vote, democraty fails.

And to reply to above person. The majority of students dont vote for radical groups. The party most popular for 18-24 year olds is Fine Gael.

cast_iron

Dontico wrote:

But there are others who cant. If the gov doesnt allow one person to vote, democraty fails.

And were they denied an oppurtunity to register for a postal vote?

Zaph

I do have a certain amount of sympathy for students who won't be able to vote, but what I can't understand is why they're only moaning about it now. It's not as if it was a great state secret so that nobody would know there would be an election before June, so why wait until the election is called to complain about there being no time to register for a postal vote? Most have had as long as they've been in college to sort it out, and even if it wasn't uppermost in their minds before there's been plenty of media coverage since the start of the year. So to blame it on the government being sneaky is deflecting the issue, IMO, if the students complaining were really that interested in their democratic right they would have sorted things out long before now.

Having said all that, I do think it's an absolute disgrace that anyone studying abroad can't use a postal vote.

zaph

zaph wrote:

So to blame it on the government being sneaky is deflecting the issue, IMO, if the students complaining were really that interested in their democratic right they would have sorted things out long before now.

Well, firstly I only found out last week that the postal vote process can include students. Secondly, I only got my timetable a week or two ago, so I wasn't sure until then whether I'd be free to vote. Also for students in UCD their timetable was being re-released (for the third or fourth time for some of my friends) which meant that they didn't know whether they'd be free to vote or not...

For someone living away from home cramming in final year, sorting out a postal vote mightn't be on the top of their list of priorities.

Zaph

Myth wrote:

Well, firstly I only found out last week that the postal vote process can include students.

Well in that case I'd be asking the student union why they didn't publicise this fact several months ago.

Myth wrote:

Secondly, I only got my timetable a week or two ago, so I wasn't sure until then whether I'd be free to vote. Also for students in UCD their timetable was being re-released (for the third or fourth time for some of my friends) which meant that they didn't know whether they'd be free to vote or not...

Fair enough, but why not have the contingency in place in case there was a clash of dates?

Myth wrote:

For someone living away from home cramming in final year, sorting out a postal vote mightn't be on the top of their list of priorities.

Not every student is cramming for their finals That said, I do appreciate the difficulties, I'm just pointing out that there are students, both here and in the papers, complaining about not being able to vote when they could for relatively little time and effort anytime since the start of the year, or earlier.

zaph

zaph wrote:

Well in that case I'd be asking the student union why they didn't publicise this fact several months ago.

Indeed. I only saw the posters placed up today in my college - but the effectiveness of a Students' Union (and / or USI) is a whole other thing to talk about!

Fair enough, but why not have the contingency in place in case there was a clash of dates?

I did - I read up on it last week It should have been publicised in advance (giving people a large amount of time, just in case) not only by relevant Students' Unions, but also by the Government. It may have been, for all I know, and if that was the case I must have missed it.

Plus I can hardly speak for UCD.

Not every student is cramming for their finals That said, I do appreciate the difficulties, I'm just pointing out that there are students, both here and in the papers, complaining about not being able to vote when they could for relatively little time and effort anytime since the start of the year, or earlier.

I appreciate the point, and agree with it in part. Perhaps my point was a bit selfish - I AM studying for finals, and was concerned about the timing

Students (not students' unions) can feel annoyed, since the deadline was not previously advertised as has been mentioned. Yes, it should have been highlighted by their SUs previously. But to just blame them would be a bit much, imo.

Beebox

DIT have their exams too.

Dontico

cast_iron wrote:

And were they denied an oppurtunity to register for a postal vote?

Dont being so bloody narrow minded and listen to what people are complaining about.

If I was studing in Cork and I wanted to postal vote, I could do it cause I'm politically active and I know about these things. But most people dont know anything about postal votiung. Alot of people dont know that they can vote even though they arent near thier constituencey.

Why didnt the gov inform people they can still vote?
Answer me that smart arse.

ninty9er

Dontico wrote:

Dont being so bloody narrow minded and listen to what people are complaining about.

If I was studing in Cork and I wanted to postal vote, I could do it cause I'm politically active and I know about these things. But most people dont know anything about postal votiung. Alot of people dont know that they can vote even though they arent near thier constituencey.

Why didnt the gov inform people they can still vote?
Answer me that smart arse.

Well smart arse. Ógra Fianna Fáil, Young Fine Gael and the Young Greens have gone about the process of handing the forms out in UL with the instructions.

ÓFF last week and YFG and Greens and ÓFF on Monday.

So if you want to see someone that's bloody narrow minded I suggest you look no further than the nearest mirror!!

(what I'd like to call you only for board rules:mad: :mad: :mad: )

Dontico

ninty9er wrote:

Well smart arse. Ógra Fianna Fáil, Young Fine Gael and the Young Greens have gone about the process of handing the forms out in UL with the instructions.

ÓFF last week and YFG and Greens and ÓFF on Monday.

So if you want to see someone that's bloody narrow minded I suggest you look no further than the nearest mirror!!

(what I'd like to call you only for board rules:mad: :mad: :mad: )

Are the younth-wings the government?
Is UL the government?
Does every student in Ireland go to UL?

Oirthir

If FF can pour €10m quid into that "vote Bertie's Team" ****e, then surely the Dept of Environment could have taken out a few full page ads in the major papers explaining the various procedures for voting..

ninty9er

ninty9er wrote:

Well smart arse.
(what I'd like to call you only for board rules:mad: :mad: :mad: )

You've already done enough to contravene them.
Take 2 weeks off.
pm me or one of the other mods when the time is up.

Dontico

Dontico wrote:

Dont being so bloody narrow minded and listen to what people are complaining about.

Answer me that smart arse.

Banned for 2 weeks for that

thelepo

The Greens came out today in criticism of the Thursday vote. They say that it was a deliberate ploy to silence the student vote, and I would tend to agree.

Where is the student protest I ask? I heard that USI were doing something about it. I haven't heard about any Student Unions etting out to fight this thing.

Generally students would tend to vote to the left. With the Greens likely to poll well during this election I would have thought that a lot of students would have given them their votes.

ballooba

thelepo wrote:

Where is the student protest I ask? I heard that USI were doing something about it. I haven't heard about any Student Unions etting out to fight this thing.

Student politics dominated by FF? in UCD anyway.

ApeXaviour

thelepo wrote:

Where is the student protest I ask? .

We're busy cramming...

Chakar

Dontico wrote:

The party most popular for 18-24 year olds is Fine Gael.

Interesting Don. So what did you use as a barometer for that statement?

Membership?

I think not.

UU

Here's an email I received from the SU in Trinity. I hope it helps! :

Hi all,



This e-mail below contains the procedures for registering students for the upcoming general election



1. Students not on the register.



If you're not registered to vote, it's not too late. Fill out form RFA2 and submit it as soon as possible. The closing date is specified in the Electoral Acts (1992, as amended at various times - in 1997 and 2001 with particular relevance to this). It is the day before 14 days before the vote takes place (without counting Sundays and public holidays), which in the current election means Saturday 5th May. However, as there is neither a postal service nor an obligation to open the offices on that day, the minimum requirement is for local authorities to accept what they receive by post/in person by the end of business on Friday 4th.



Some authorities are accepting things like something mailed at the weekend (i.e. received first post on Tuesday following) or faxed on Saturday with a hard copy to follow - but this is a matter of local interpretation and should be checked, either by the individual student or by the local authority in the area in which your institution is located (if you're encouraging people to register there).



Remember that a form for going on the supplement requires a Garda signature (ID verification). Occasionally, a friendly community Garda will sit in your college and sign forms for you. Worth a shot. County councils won't accept forms without this unless there are special circumstances (illness/disability).



Here's an RFA2 from Dublin City Council - http://www.dublincity.ie/Images/RFA2%20English%20-%20form_tcm35-49525.pdf - in practice you can use anyone's form, just make sure to send it to the right local authority! Most Councils have a PDF to download anyway.



2. Students on the register who wish to move.



There is a provision to allow those already registered in county X to move their registration to county Y (subject to the person being 'ordinarily resident' in county Y. What this means is a matter of dispute.). You send this form to the local authority IN WHICH YOU ARE REGISTERED - so county X in our example above. You are authorising them to delete you from their list and to be added to the other authority's list. The same dates etc apply.



Here's an RFA3 from Dublin City Council

http://www.dublincity.ie/Images/Change%20of%20Address%20RFA3%20English_tcm35-22813.pdf



3. Postal voting.



The postal vote list and the supplementary postal vote list is closed as of Tuesday May 1st. The rule here is 2 days after the election is called.



Those who have the postal vote should follow instructions that they receive - but they must do it via a Garda station, so the postal vote cannot be used from outside Ireland (Republic, in this case).



4. Other considerations.



Anyone who turns 18 before polling day (24th May) is (pursuant to recent amendments) absolutely entitled to register and to vote.



You must be an Irish or British citizen to vote in this election.



There are no provisions for voting abroad.



Polling will be open until 10.30pm on polling day.



You do NOT need a 'polling card' to vote. If you are on the register, just turn up with photo ID. I.e. if someone moves within the constituency and doesn't inform of the new address, turn up anyway with photo ID.



5. Checking the register



I have received some reports that checktheregister.ie is not 100% reliable. It's worth a student calling the local authority if they wish to check - they are obliged to help. If there is any doubt, send the form in anyway, if you are already registered it will just be disregarded. However, it's important to only use an RFA3 (change of address for the supplement) if you are already on the register and can confirm that.



Hope this answers all your questions.



David



David Quinn

Students' Union President
Trinity College Dublin
+ 353 1 6468435 / 085 703 1136
president@tcdsu.org

www.tcdsu.org

thelepo

UU, I like your tag. More of that I say. I think I shall get a t shirt made up encouragin people to vote. I'll drag them to the polls if I have to.