Planning Permission

matt-dublin

Has anyone noticed the planning permission behind the crescent?

permission application for 91 dwellings,

2 high rise apartment blocks with underground parking, and something like 20 odd houses (can't remember exactly.)

What exactly is the policy for objecting to it.

future_plans

Hi Matt, where behind the Cresent? Is it the land between the cresent and the old Kilnacarrig road? Or are they just proceeding with the development that was mentioned after the rezoning of the land behind the park/grove...Also, did you see the name of the applicant?

Charlie-Bravo

Well, Matt...you need a reason, and a good reason at that, for objecting to developments (not just because you might have a nice view of the mountains and a development would be get in the way of your nice view).

Go to the planning department and see if the land is zoned accordingly for development of houses, etc. (it most likely is but check it anyway as you cannot rely on the Wicklow Co. Co. to get it right).

To get some indication if it is a suitable development you can read through the county development plan and also the local area plans. This is the best way of getting information that you can use in your objection. The objection must be received within 4-5 weeks of the receipt of the application...but you need to check the new planning regs 2006 which came into effect this month (Apr 07). And it costs €20 usually...again check the new regs!

Emma A

Saw the sign as well nearly had a heart attack as Im in the back row of houses - hope its not for directly behind us!
think it said Zipi Properties? cant figure out on wicklow county council website how to look for proposal or plans? any info greatfully rec'd!:)

matt-dublin

Its the land beside the crescent binshed, to the right of it. Recently re-zoned to residential after the kilnacarrig road upgrade was refused.

It was put up by Zapi Properties.

Emma A

rang wicklow county council they havent received notification yet of any new application from Zapi - the date on the notice was the 27th April so just friday - she said to keep an eye out all we can do I suppose!:)

Mullie

I'm right on the field too. Knew it was going to happen but its dissappointing all the same, and so soon!
I've heard that Zapi have held a number of apartments in the Cresent, something to do with that planning application itself. Not sure how it works.

Does anyone know what you could base an objection on?
I was thinking we could bury some old pottery and claim its a viking settlement!

matt-dublin

was there a planning application number on the notice?

Mullie

Heres the details from the poster:
There is no planning application number on it.
....
Zapi properties ltd intends to apply for planning permission for dev on 2.9 hectares of land....
- 91 dwellings in total.

- 2 x 2.5 storey 5 bed houses
- 29 x 3 storey 3 bed houses
- 60 apartments in 3 x 4 storey blocks with underground parking.

The signature on the base of the application is Michelle Nester and there is a reference to:
Tiros resourses ltd,
10, Hatch St,
Dublin 2

They're a plannign company http://www.tiros.ie/

Fiachra2

If you are looking for grounds for objection i suggest following up on a few of these:

Regional population guidlines. Greystones is well ahead of the target population set out for the region
Sections of the County plan referring to promoting industry in Greystones (This land was originally zoned for same)
Sections of teh county plan referring to promoting public transport usage. (This development will encourage car based conmmuting to Dublin.)

You must object to WCC but bear in mind that you will almost certainly have to appeal the decision to An Bord Pleanala. Because the rezoning was pushed through by a few Councillors agaionst the advice of the Council Planners, it is possible the application will be refused by hen appeal to An bord Pleanala. In this regard you should acquaint yourself with the content of the decision on the Pizzarro Development in Bray. This was refused on the grounds that the N11 is at capacity and should not take any more commuter traffic. This is potentially a very important decision and if the Bord applies the same logic consistently developments like this will be refused.

matt-dublin

Excellent Information Fiachra, Thanks

MimiQ

We called the independent candidate Evelyn Cawley about this and she came out to view the site notice this morning. She is looking for a contact name/number of the Court Residents committee so that she can follow up, if anyone has details? Thanks.

Access to the development is to be via Charlesland Court by the way!

neets

does the land being developed include the thin strip that runs behind the back row of charlesland park? are there any plans of the layout of the development ie. is there going to be a four storey block of apartments towering over me when i'm doin a spot of naked gardening?!

Wineman

MimiQ wrote:

Access to the development is to be via Charlesland Court by the way!

Who ageed to that, surely its private property under the management of our management company?

As to contacting the commitee try Estelle at charleslandcourt@hotmail.com

Basil Brush

wicklow planning office haven't recieved application yet (as of this morning) - apparently Zapi Properties (subsidary of Ballymore) have two weeks from date of site notice to apply for planning permission. we then have 5 weeks from when the application has been lodged to object.

I think it would be good for the land to be developed as waste land just lying there attracts the wrong kind of people and to be honest is not the prettiest to look out at from my back bedroom window but I would like to see little bungalows and not large houses and 4 storey apartment blocks!

matt-dublin

so basil you're telling me you would prefer to be overlooked from your back bedroom window than look at a field or potentially a park?

loss of privacy
your house price will take a hit
possibly having to look at ugly apartment blocks
and a potential of all of these dwellings being social affordable housing

Charlie-Bravo

Matt, its given that the field will built on. Yes, there is a requirement in the planning regs to provide social and affordable housing but this wouldn't be full saturation...we have social and affordable in charlesland already...so stop scare mongering.

The prices of the properties will go up or down depending on what they sell the new units for! Even with the original development, everytime they released a new phase the money shot up...don't see them dropping the price to get rid of them (but putting in furnishings as extras to attract people).

As for your privacy point...there is a 22 metre rule for directly opposing windows...if it is within 22m then you have a case...anything else you can forget about

neets

it's actually really nice having that little piece of field at the back. there's a big tree that's literally packed with birds twittering away. there's also a little pheasant or grouse that lives there and makes its own very bizarre noise. it makes you feel as if you're really in the countryside. you can guarantee that the tree and the birds will be gone rapido as soon as the bulldozers move in.

because the strip of land is so skinny, you can also guarantee that the development will be high density ie. high rise building completely blocking out all the sun. this won't be helped by the fact that it's already at a really steep gradient which will mean that any buildings will be literally towering over us. not a pleasant prospect.

i know that it's a given regarding the development of the land but unfortunately the developers as usual will squeeze the knickers out of it in terms of how much money they can milk out of a very small footprint ie lash up a load of apartments.

Emma A

dont think its for directly behind us in the last row - the planning permission sign is at the bin shed and there is another one further over the other end past the cresecent so I think is in between these two signs. we can object on grounds of no light if it is for behind the last row the 20ft wall we have in our gardens is bad enough surely!

neets

hate to tell you but there's a planning permission sign up on the back road near the bus stop directly opposite our back garden and we're in the last row in charlesland park

Emma A

****tttttttttttte!! thought it was too good to be true we better get our objection letters in order so !!

Fiachra2

neets wrote:

i know that it's a given regarding the development of the land but unfortunately the developers as usual will squeeze the knickers out of it in terms of how much money they can milk out of a very small footprint ie lash up a load of apartments.

Its not actually a given at all. The land was rezoned by a handful of local Councillors at the behest of Zapi but against the advice of their professional planners. You can object and in doing so you should obtain the minutes of the council meetings at which the lands were rezoned. You can then quote the council officals WHO ARE THE PEOPLE WHO WILL DECIDE ON THE PLANNING APPLICATION in you objection showing that they were opposed to the zoning.

Even if they grant permission you can appeal (see my previous post) and again you will have very strong grounds

slickmcvic

matt-dublin wrote:

and a potential of all of these dwellings being social affordable housing

...SHOCK HORROR!!
So that means the civvies like me (a poor teacher!!) might be able to afford to live within range of where I work...jeeez i hope that doesnt happen!!

matt-dublin

So i recieved the plans and architects drawings the other day, the crescent stands to lose 8 of their parking spaces by the looks of things,

24 of the 2 bedroom units and 4 of the 1 bedroom units will be social and affordable housing.

The R761 will be re-aligned

The three apartment blocks will be placed directly behind the crescent on the r761. The underground carpark entrance will be placed where the crascent binshed is currently. The other entrance will be placed at the other end of the crescent at the top of charlesland wood.

The planned binsheds will reduce the parking at the crescent to 1.354 spaces per apartment. That is a total of 65 spaces, it is currently 74 Spaces (i will have to count to confirm.

The greystones/delgany area plan states that the minimum requirement for a 2 bedroom apartment is 1 parking space. This means that there will be parking issues at the top of the wood/park and crescent as there is 60 apartments and only 84 parking spaces allocated for them. Allowing for the fact that almost all of the new apartment residents will have a minimum of two cars, i would estimate there will be about 110 cars and only 84 parking spaces allocated for them.

And as we all know there is already traffic and parking safety issues in charlesland which are currently unresolved.

For anyone wishing to view the plans and planning application please send me a PM

3 further binsheds will be placed in 6 of the crescent parking spaces.

The housing units will be place directly behind and on top of the final phase of houses up at the back of charlesland park.

Wineman

matt-dublin wrote:

The R761 will be re-aligned


.

Does this mean access to this development is from the road at the back of Charlesland?

matt-dublin

both,
access to the houses will be via the r761

and the apartments will have access from where the current binshed is at the crescent and also at the opposite end.

matt-dublin

Here is the application on the Wicklow Co. Co. Site:

http://www.wicklow.ie/ePlan/InternetEnquiry/rpt_ViewApplicDetails.asp?validFileNum=1&app_num_file=07956

neets

hey matt-dublin,

would you mind pming me the plans/drawings. thanks a million. (tried to pm you but was unable to - damned macs).

matt-dublin

need your email addy

Wineman

can anyone explain how this company have the right to have access through the Charlesland estate for their development?

avantarklu

According to the terms of the Wood's lease agreement (& I assume it applies to each of the estates), until such time as the developer hands over control of the common areas to the management company, they retain the right to make what ever alterations to the estate they desire. Following handover, the right to make alterations is in the hands of the Mgt Co, under the control of the residents.

matt-dublin

the official handover of the estate has not happened yet, thus they can still do pretty much what they want with access.

woodser

matt-dublin wrote:

the official handover of the estate has not happened yet, thus they can still do pretty much what they want with access.

Correct matt they still own the common areas and strictly speakin can apply for planning to build on them.Also from what I've read and studied of all the leases from all the Management Companies in Charlesland Grove, Wood ,Park, Court,Fairways,Seabourne View,Spine Road,Commercial,and overall umbrella Company over the whole estate I dont believe the estate can ever wholly be handed back.To the residents as each Company has juristiction over parts of the estate that others have:mad: :mad:

Emma A

Hi my sister is a solicitor and has drafted a really good objection letter for me. Anyone want a copy of details pls send me a pm thx

woodser

Checked it all out.The land is zoned residential so some housing will go there.What is proposed is way O.T.T.Lodging an objection on the access from Charlesland Spine Road on the basis of parking on North side .ie wood and Court side of the spine road has reduced it to one lane.Also objecting to when and if any construction starts that all construction traffic be banned from spine road as .If that doesnt work then just park both sides of the spine road -no double yellows then h.g.v.s wont be able to get upWhile cars can.:D

MuffinsDa

woodser wrote:

.If that doesnt work then just park both sides of the spine road -no double yellows then h.g.v.s wont be able to get upWhile cars can.:D

slightly off topic, but just to warn you: not a good idea at all! Because then ambulances and fire trucks won't be able to get through as well. So never do that under any circumstance!

pelemcg

Hi Emma A, could you pm me the draft for objection letter? Thanks!

neets

if you could pm me too emma a, that would be great.

Emma A

hi objections have to be in by 7th June and it costs 20 euro to lodge one thx

future_plans

When I was passing yesterday I noticed that there was work going on in the old Zapi marketing suite beside the Fairways. I was just wondering if they are now removing it, or building new models and redecorating for the new development? Does anybody know whats going on there? Or has anybody asked?

matt-dublin

the marketing suite is being removed and shipped off to sweden as far as i know.

Emma can you send me the address and any information on where the objections need to be sent to?

Marcais

Submissions can be sent by e-mail to:

plandev@wicklowcoco.ie

As far as I know, you will have a €25 fee to pay, so you should make sure that that your submissions are as relevant and coherent as possible. Evelyn Cawley assisted us with submissions on the last rezoning and has already met with committees on this issue. She has a post-graduate degree in palnning so knows her stuff (ps. not an election promise, she will help regardless!)

A public meeting sometime after 24th May might be the best way to go about this.

Also, very important to let Dail candidates and local "representatives" know your views on this now and ask for their support...BUT get it in writing!! they will (and have) tell you anything on your doorstep or on the phone.

About 100 submissions form Charlesland went in against the rezoning behind Charlesland. FG and FF councillors insisted in Wicklow Times etc. that Charlesland and Greystones were all behind the rezoning, withhout even acknowledging the objections which they were very much aware of. So it may be a good idea to let local media know about all concerns also.

MOSK

First time user of Boards - So don't know where this'll end up!

The zoning of the land above Charlesland Park is 'R2' - Residential with max of 17.4 residential units per Hectare (as defined in Greystones / Delagany Local Area Plan, and still zoned as such under proposed amendments of September 2006 - If this info. has been superseded could someone let me know?) - The proposal for 91 units into 2.9 Ha represents well over 30 units per Hectare, more than doube the zond max and which exceeds even the 'R1' zoning (max 22.2 / Ha). This (if my info is correct) is a serious material contravention of the LAP, which in itself is grounds for objection, but which may be supplemented on basis we bought houses in knowledge of zoning, but this is now being (or at least proposed to be) ignored.

Other grounds for objection might overshadowing (loss of light), Overviewing (direct sight into back garden), Visual obtrusion, loss of view / prospect 'P02' that was set as an objective for preservation under LAP (subject to zoning objectives), provision for 'Green corridor' (cycle / pedestrian path planned to run through the land- haven't seen the plans so don't know if this has been provided for), adequacy of exisiting water supply / waste water disposal systems to cope with increased demand (an issue raised in EIS of LAP variation, but not sure if addressed, so maybe query for confirmation rather than basis of objection), Childcare facilities (agian don't know if provided for in plans, but there's an objective of 20 places per 75 residential units, and of course traffic (local and N11).

If anyone's got the plans for the development in digital format, could they 'pm' to me as well (don't know what 'pm'-ing is yet, but I assume it'll turn up in my Email?)

Tom Bombadillo

In 2003 Zapi Properties Ltd. were refused planning permission for 4 Storey and Penthouse level apartment scheme arranged in 6 blocks with lower ground level car parking. The development consists of 1) 144 No 2 bed apartments, 2) 24 No 2 bed Penthouse apartments 3) lower ground level car park at the same location. Wicklow County Council gave 8 reasons for its refusal. http://www.wicklow.ie/ePlan/InternetEnquiry/rpt_ViewApplicDetails.asp?validFileNum=1&app_num_file=038233

The decision was appealed to An Bord Pleanala and only 2 of these reasons were upheld.
http://www.pleanala.ie/data1/searchdetails.asp?id=9066128&caseno=203001

REASONS AND CONSIDERATIONS of An Bord Pleanala

1. It is a stated objective of the current Greystones/Delgany Development Plan to realign/improve the R761 road in the vicinity of the site. Therefore development of the kind proposed would be premature pending the determination by Wicklow County Council of a road layout for the area.

2. It is considered that the proposed development by reason of its bulk and height would be visually dominant and out of character with the pattern of development in the area, and would seriously injure the amenities of existing and permitted residential property in the vicinity by reason of overshadowing, overlooking and loss of privacy. The proposed development would, therefore, be contrary to the proper planning and sustainable development of the area.




In the current submission for planning, the plans include realignment of the R761 and the proposed development has been scaled down from the previous one.

I intend to object to the development on the following grounds:

1: Endanger public safety by reason of serious traffic hazard in Charlesland, as there are not sufficient parking spaces currently around the crescent and the park, and the proposed development is going to remove 8 parking spaces from the crescent. Although the proposed development is providing the minimum number of car parking spaces under the Greystones/Delgany Local Area Plan; the reality is that currently there are not enough parking spaces around the Crescent and the Park. This results in residents parking their cars on the roadside between the spine road and the entrance to the underground car park in the proposed development.

2. The proposal may result in an unacceptable level of overlooking and loss of residential amenity to occupants to the east and a loss of light to existing adjoining properties.

3. The public open space associated with the proposed development appears not be an integral part of the development as it is located on the opposite side of the proposed realignment of R761. This also may endanger public safety by reason of serious traffic hazard for pedestrians crossing the R761.

Are there any residents committees formed to object against the proposed development?

matt-dublin

I think a lot of the committees are objecting,

1.You can probably also throw in that the crescent will also lose 6 parking spaces and their waste/bin shed

2. Most or all of the reasons for original objection have not been satisfied.

3. the 84 spaces assigned to the proposal apartment blocks is not sufficient for the amount of residential units and will result in an overflow to the crescent car park which will be overflowing due to the loss of six parking spaces resulting in illegal parking and a danger to general public safety.

4. This was not considered for the 2007 local area plan which was decided at christmas.

5. The N11 is currently up to capacity and public transport is sparse and overwhelmed proving that the current infrastructure cannot handle further increase in population

6. Unnacceptable noise levels, as proven before with the last phase of charlesland would create an unacceptable level of disturbance in the mornings and weekend.

7. Unnacceptable levels of drainage from the proposal, including waste drainage, water supply etc would be significantly affected resulting in potential overwhelming of waste drainage systems and water pressure through charlesland.

I would also suggest everyone get onto your local TDs

I also think that everyone should post up their reasons for objecting and that way our objections will have more reasons each if you know what i mean.

neets

My neighbours showed me the plans last night, including the side elevation. For anyone who is in the back row of Charlesland Park, the new houses will be at least 2 and a half storeys and because they are built on land which is already considerably higher than the foundations of our houses, they will literally tower over us. We will lose all sunlight in our back gardens and the new houses will be looking right into us, taking away any privacy we have. Does anyone know what the minimum required distance is between residential dwellings so as not to impinge or over shadow. Could this be another reason for objection?

Basil Brush

The plans are for 2 rows of houses behind the last row of Charlesland Park - which is just way too many and with being 2.5/3 storeys high they will definetly block our sunlight out.

I urge everyone on the back row to object - the more people the better. Everyone needs to object to original application - deadline June 6th. When it comes to the later appeal process depending on decision, you will only be able to object again if you made an objection to original planning application.

neets

Basil Brush wrote:

The plans are for 2 rows of houses behind the last row of Charlesland Park - which is just way too many and with being 2.5/3 storeys high they will definetly block our sunlight out.

I urge everyone on the back row to object - the more people the better. Everyone needs to object to original application - deadline June 6th. When it comes to the later appeal process depending on decision, you will only be able to object again if you made an objection to original planning application.

I know this is a dumb question as I've never objected before, but how do I object to the original application? How do I find out what the original application is?

Jun Wan

Same question, how can we object the original planning? By sending the objection letter to Wicklow County Council? Thanks.

Basil Brush

if you pop down to the wicklow county council offices in Wicklow Town (near Grand Hotel) you can get the plans for EUR10 - they'll photocopy what you want. Then you need to put in writing by June 6th your objection to Wicklow County Council. If every house does this individually.

Plans look a disgrace - houses way too high. To be honest, I do think that the land needs to be developed as it is just wasteland at the moment but I think large bungalowes or something like that would be perfect - they wouldn't overlook us or block out our sunlight. But obviously you wouldn't fit in as many large bungalowes as you would 3 storey houses (going high instead of going wide). The applicants could just be going all out on the first planning application knowing that they wont get it and will have to scale back. Also, I reckon the estate with the lovely bungalowes across the road at the back of us (they would be facing the land) will object heavily as well as their sea views could be in question

matt-dublin

whats the procedure for sending an objection by post?

address?
send cheque?