BBC Freesat is GO!

DMC

Remember Freesat? A satellite version of Freeview, also backed by the BBC?

Well, it seems this little bear has hibernated for too long. It wont be long before it leaves the cave and either be the king of the wood, or be shot by poachers the second it puts its nose out the door...

Statement from the BBC Trust, released today.

Freesat

Under the terms of the previous Charter the BBC submitted a proposal, approved by the Governors, to the Department for Culture, Media and Sport in June 2006 to launch a free open standard satellite service. However the Charter expired before the Secretary of State reached a decision and, in line with the terms of the new Charter, the decision now rests with the BBC Trust.

The Trust received the open file from the Secretary of State in January. Further to detailed scrutiny at its Finance & Strategy Committee and the provision of further independent advice, the Trust considered the proposal in detail at its meeting yesterday.

The Trust expects to publish its provisional conclusion soon, together with supporting evidence, and open a 28 day consultation before reaching its final decision.

The BBC Trust took over the duties that used to be performed by the BBC Governors, in fact a lot of previous governors are on the Trust. The Trust was one of the keystones to the new BBC charter, which was recommended after the Dr. David Kelly affair, which lead to the demise of Greg Dyke, he who gave unto us, the BBC free to air from Astra 2.

On the back burner, but moving to the front of the stove once again.

DMC

and it has got the provisional thumbs-up..

BBC Trust reaches provisional decision on "Freesat"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/news/press_releases/27_02_2007.html

27 February 2007

The BBC Trust has provisionally approved BBC management's proposal to develop and launch a free-to-view satellite platform, "Freesat".

BBC management envisages "Freesat" being achieved as a joint venture with other public service broadcasters. The Trust believes the service would create significant public value by offering licence fee payers an additional means to access digital services, including the BBC's digital television channels and radio services, which is subscription free and guaranteed to stay that way.

The Trust has today published its decision, and the evidence and analysis which informed its judgement, and opened a 28 day public consultation prior to making its final decision in April 2007.

Acting BBC Chairman Chitra Bharucha said: "The BBC's Royal Charter requires the Corporation to take a leading role in digital switchover which begins next year. From 2008 until 2012, as each UK nation and region switches to digital, all households that haven't done so already will have to choose a new way to access television. One of the benefits arising from digital switchover will be greater choice for viewers. For those 7 million homes yet to make the switch, it needs to be clear that the benefits of digital television do not need to equal "pay television".

"A new, guaranteed subscription-free satellite service would provide the public another option when deciding which platform to choose. Over half of those yet to switch fall outside the Freeview coverage area. For these homes, the new service would mean being able to access BBC digital services they have already paid for via their licence fee but until now have been unable to receive on a guaranteed subscription-free basis.

"We have considered the market impact and whilst there may be some negative effects, in our view these should be balanced against the potential positive market impact of greater choice. Overall, we believe a "Freesat" service to be in the public interest and we hope that other public service broadcasters would join the BBC in a joint venture. We welcome all responses to our provisional conclusion during the consultation. "

The BBC Trust has decided that "Freesat" meets the BBC's Charter and Agreement definition of a "non-service" activity and does not require a Public Value Test. Nonetheless, in reaching its provisional decision the Trust has considered the potential public value and market implications of launching the service.

In particular, the Trust examined the proposition in four key areas:

*
Whether the proposition would serve the best interests of licence fee payers:
Of the 7 million homes yet to switch to digital, over half fall outside the Freeview coverage area. Inability to access free-to-view digital is an issue frequently raised by the public in its contacts with the BBC. For some, this would remain an issue until the analogue system is switched off entirely in 2012. The Trust considers failure to address this issue to be inconsistent with its public service duties.
*
What public value the new platform might create:
The Trust has provisionally concluded there is significant public value in the "Freesat" proposition. It believes such a service would have a positive impact by introducing choice to the market and a guaranteed subscription free alternative to Sky's free satellite option. The costs to the BBC are modest and comparable with those of Freeview. Launching the proposition as a joint venture would further increase value for money.
*
How the proposition fits with the BBC's public service remit:
The Charter and Agreement set out a number of public service duties for the BBC. The Charter includes a Public Purpose to help deliver the benefits of emerging technologies to the public, and to take a leading role in digital switchover. Meanwhile, the Agreement states that the BBC "must do all that is reasonably practicable to ensure that viewers, listeners and other users are able to access the UK public services that are intended for them". The Trust has provisionally concluded that the objectives of the proposition are consistent with, and enhance, the BBC's public service remit.
*
The competitive impact of the proposals on the wider market:
The Trust’s provisional conclusion is that the proposition would have some negative impact on the wider market but increase choice for consumers. The Trust's view takes account of analysis of the proposition's potential market implications carried out by its own independent advisers within the Trust Unit and external independent economists.

Ends

DMC

Other reaction, from ITV in this MediaGuardian article.

4pm update
BBC Trust gives nod to Freesat


Chris Tryhorn
Tuesday February 27, 2007
MediaGuardian.co.uk

The BBC Trust has given provisional approval to the corporation's long-awaited plans for a Freesat service that would offer free digital television by satellite.

The trust, which succeeded the board of governors this year as the BBC's ultimate regulatory body, said the service would "create significant public value" by offering a new way of accessing digital TV services.

BBC managers have drawn up plans for a Freesat service to be run as a joint venture with other public service broadcasters.

Freesat was first proposed in 2003 and then outlined formally by the BBC and ITV in September 2005, when it was envisaged it would launch in the first half of 2006.

The thinking behind Freesat is to give an extra boost to the take-up of digital TV.

The BBC is particularly eager to expand access because of criticism that while all licence fee payers fund its digital services, not all of them can receive them without paying a subscription to satellite or cable.

At the moment Freeview, the digital terrestrial service that does not require subscription, reaches only three-quarters of UK homes, though its penetration will increase as digital transmission signals are strengthened in coming years.

With 7 million households, mainly in rural areas, still analogue-only just a year before the region-by-region switch-off of the analogue signal starts, Freesat is one way of helping to speed up the transition.

The new service would compete with an existing subscription-free satellite service that has been run by BSkyB since October 2004.

Sky's offering provides free access to 120 satellite TV channels and 80 radio stations for a one-off installation charge of £150.

The BBC Trust opened a consultation on the matter today and intends to make its final decision in April.

"Over half of those yet to switch [to digital TV] fall outside the Freeview coverage area," said the BBC acting chairman, Chitra Bharucha.

"For these homes, the new service would mean being able to access BBC digital services they have already paid for via their licence fee but until now have been unable to receive on a guaranteed subscription-free basis."

She added that Freesat would be in the public interest and encouraged other public service broadcasters to enter into a joint venture with the BBC to get it launched.

ITV welcomed the BBC's announcement that it would go ahead with Freesat.

The commercial broadcaster said it supported the Freesat plan in principle, but was still deciding what an "appropriate level of involvement" would be.

ITV and the BBC announced in September 2005 that they would work together to launch Freesat as a complimentary service to Freeview, the free digital terrestrial TV offering. At the time the two broadcasters envisaged a Freesat launch in the first half of 2006.

"ITV is supportive of an independent, free-to-air satellite platform which will enable those outside of Freeview coverage areas to receive our family of digital channels," an ITV spokeswoman said.

"We are working closely with the BBC to determine the appropriate level of involvement for us as a business."

Today's Freesat announcement was also welcomed by Help the Aged, with senior policy adviser, David Sinclair, saying it was "now essential that the BBC move quickly and deliver".

"In order to secure a successful switchover to digital, there must be adequate choice for those customers who are not able to afford subscription based services," Mr Sinclair added. "Digital switchover could deliver better television and a whole range of interactive services for older people. Freesat helps fill the gaps and adds to the choice for those unable to get digital terrestrial channels."

Ulsterman 1690

BBC managers have drawn up plans for a Freesat service to be run as a joint venture with other public service broadcasters.

Does this mean Channel 4 are coming on board

Surely they dont mean ITV :rolleyes:

DMC

Yes, one would suspect that Channel 4 would be a key stakeholder in this. If it were to launch next year, it would tie in nicely with the end of encryption deal they have with Sky.

Foggy43

Just found this report on BBC Freesat. Not sure if it of any benefit to you?

http://www.tech.co.uk/home-entertainment/video/digital-tv-receivers/news/bbc-freesat-promises-free-hd-tv?articleid=1764682293

This is the home page.
http://www.tech.co.uk/news

DMC

Freesat gets the thumbs up from BBC Trust.

BBC and ITV to launch a free-to-view satellite proposition
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2007/04_april/27/freesat.shtml

The BBC has today been given approval by the BBC Trust to launch a nationally available free-to-view satellite proposition as a joint venture with ITV.

"Freesat", as it is currently known, will provide a Standard and High Definition (SD and HD) enabled digital satellite proposition with launch anticipated for Spring 2008.

Consumers will be offered up to 200 channels plus full digital satellite interactivity and high definition capability, without the need to pay a subscription.

Consumers will also have a choice of equipment (including both SD and HD receivers, an HD personal video recorder and an integrated digital television), together with a range of installation options.

BBC Director-General, Mark Thompson, said: "The BBC's objective in launching Freesat is to support Digital Switchover by providing another way for licence payers to receive digital television channels and radio services, subscription free from the BBC and ITV.

"Its primary purpose is to drive digital take-up in analogue homes, particularly in those areas which are out of digital terrestrial coverage.

"Freesat also offers a trusted free-to-view digital upgrade path that gives licence payers all the benefits of digital television (notably high definition capability) guaranteed free of subscription."

ITV Executive Chairman, Michael Grade, said: "Freesat will build on the success of Freeview by offering viewers a simple and cost effective way of upgrading to digital TV. By filling in the current gaps in Freeview coverage, Freesat will ensure that a free-to-air, no strings attached option for accessing digital TV is available to the whole of the UK ahead of digital switchover.

"By offering HD capability we will future proof Freesat if, as expected, high definition television continues to capture the imagination of UK viewers."

The BBC and ITV have been working with selected manufacturers, retailers and installers to develop an innovative consumer proposition.

The proposal for a nationally available free satellite platform offered by the BBC working with other public service broadcasters was supported in the Government's White Paper on the BBC Charter.

It said: "The Government is keen to ensure that consumers have as wide a choice as possible of how they get digital TV. We welcome the plans being developed by the BBC and ITV for a free-to-view satellite service alongside Sky's offering and we hope that the other public service broadcasters will join them in this endeavour. This promises to enhance further both consumer choice and competition in the television market."

Note to Editors
The BBC Trust has issued a statement and published their reasons for allowing the proposition to proceed and to invest in Freesat on their website bbc.co.uk/bbctrust.

The BBC and ITV are currently in discussions with other broadcasters about joining the joint venture

watty

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/04/27/bbc_gets_freesat_green_light/

watty

From El Reg

The BBC has been given the go-ahead to partner with ITV to launch a free-to-view digital TV service transmitted by satellite. The service will include HD programming.

The BBC currently sends out all its channels via satellite in an unencrypted form. The free service the BBC and ITV are planning would allow viewers to tune into a wider range of channels by buying a one-off set-top box or a TV with an integrated tuner, and having a dish installed. It would replicate the terrestrial digital service, Freeview, but make use of the greater bandwidth to deliver more channels and HD programming.

Despite the Irish DTT "trial", while MPEG4 is practical on DTT, HD is not.

Dubbed Freesat - the same name, incidentally, as Sky's free package - the service is set to go live in Spring 2008

Actually Sky's service is called "Sky Freesat" or "Freesat from Sky" and adds the FTV card channels of C4 and Five, Five US, Five Live and Sky3.

C4 is widely expected to join with the BBC/ITV project when its contract with Sky expires in 2008.

So Next January sales may be the time to buy a real HD TV. Minimum 1920 x 1080i (1080 real lines, not just HDReady resampling to 768 or 720 lines) and 48" size minimum unless your living room is a broom cupboard.

watty

So yes it IS BBC and ITV, and very likely C4.

For various reasons Five is unlikely. But IMO no great hardship.

Sponge Bob

And a dedicated box will be required with _some_ crypto or other . I note that the service is intended to be available to UK "licence payers" from post above and to supplement freeview coverage ( or supplant it in remote areas)

This service to licence payers would be exactly what I have recommended that we do seeing as we are too incompetent to roll out DTT ourselves.

And it will support HD/MPEG4 too.

Hmmmm.

Ulsterman 1690

Despite the Irish DTT "trial", while MPEG4 is practical on DTT, HD is not

Ummm The Beeb are testing a DTT HDTV service in London and the USA have been doing HD-DTT for years

Although a national HD-DTT service probably wont be practical (for the UK) until after the analouge switchoff.

The Republic of Ireland could probably have at least one national HD-DTT multiplex right now though given that its UHF spectrum is not as intensively used in the UK what with having fewer legacy analouge services (some on VHF) and a favorable geographical position (No interference from a westerly direction and relatively little from the North and South)

Indeed at this stage a case could be made for "leapfroging" regular DTT and going straight for HD-DTT

channelsurfer

a bit worried about the cam aspect of it. will it mean the end of getting bbc and itv fta? and how will that affect ireland?

watty

It works of course. But if a "reasonable" number of channels more than one or 2 was HD there isn't the space.

Hence demand that released ANALOGUE TV spectrum be for DTT to allow same channels HD as on Satellite.

The current "only 1 ch HD" BBC trial, is a trail. Eventually like TV going colour most of the main channels will be HD. Not this year. maybe not before 2012. But possibly on satellite before the Analogue switch off.

watty

No card. BBC does not beleive in them. never did.

DMC

The BBC Freeview HD test has ended in the London area. It barely lasted 6 months.

Ulsterman 1690

No card. BBC does not beleive in them.

True

never did.

Not quite true (but only if you want to split hairs)

"Freesat also offers a trusted free-to-view digital upgrade path that gives licence payers all the benefits of digital television (notably high definition capability) guaranteed free of subscription."

While I dont see them going back to encryption (mainly because with them already brodcasting FTA in both regular and HD the genie is prety much out of the bottle and the use of encryption leaves them vunerable if the anti-licence fee bridade were ever to advance politically) I did notice the use of the term ""free-to-view" rather than ""free-to-air."

Sponge Bob

not "free to air" as such , no way is more 4 and e4 going free to air with their us import shows whereas c4 probably could, yet they are part of freeview

watty

These kind of articles quite often use terms inaccurately. More 4 & E4 may be PayTV, with Film4 and C4 FTA.

BBC & ITV are staying Free To Air.

In a way the delay due to Governors morphing into Trust delaying (2 or 3 years ?) the Freesat box release has proved advantageous as now it will likely be an MPEG4 /HD as well as SD and MPEG2.

The price differential MPEG4 HD / MPEG2 SD from a FTA box 2 years ago has vanished. You can get an HD PVR for the price a good SD receiver only used to be.

givecredit

Channel 4 has expressed interest in joining the Freesat proposition:

In a statement, the broadcaster said: "As a public service broadcaster we are committed to offering our innovative, high-quality content to UK viewers across all meaningful platforms. We note with interest the BBC and ITV's announcement to launch an independent, free-to-air satellite platform, and we are open to discussing our possible involvement in due course."

Channel 4 is currently party to an exclusive digital satellite carriage deal with Sky for its entire bouquet of channels, with the exception of the free to air Film4.

"Under the Communications Act we would expect to become subject to obligations to ensure the availability of the core channel on all satellite platforms, which would require that Channel 4 was available on Freesat," the broadcaster explained.

Sponge Bob

givecredit wrote:

"Under the Communications Act we would expect to become subject to obligations to ensure the availability of the core channel on all satellite platforms, which would require that Channel 4 was available on Freesat," the broadcaster explained.

Note Channel not Channels.

I suspect that BBC1 ITV1 Channel4 will remain or go FTA but that the other channels like ITV4 which carries champions league for example will not remain unencrypted and maybe a new BBC5 could be created which may be encrypted in a Freeview over Satellite system because of DRM issues .

If they wish to replicate Freeview over sat it would have to have the likes of More4 and E4 and they will require encryption of some sort as would RTE were they to take practical advantage of the economies of scale that this project would deliver .

Maybe this explains why DTT funding in Ireland runs out in 2008, eh!

DMC

ITV4 is already available, FTA on satellite, with no issue for Champions League and UEFA Cup matches.

FTA Rights issues with the BBC and ITV are sooooooo 2003.

Sponge Bob

FTA and "rights" have not gone away you know , otherwise why does channel4 blank out certain programming in the Irish EPG ???

lets see when the technical standards for freesat boxes are published , what

DMC

Sponge Bob wrote:

FTA and "rights" have not gone away you know , otherwise why does channel4 blank out certain programming in the Irish EPG ???

Because they are still encrypted on satellite, and didn't negotiate for Ireland rights back then. 2008 is just around the corner for Channel 4, and there is no other option but to go FTA on Freesat, in order to protect themselves from a Virgin Media-esque drop in audience share, like what Sky One and Sky News experienced.

channelsurfer

ok so does what was released today make it likely that bbc will go to some sort of encryption system thus alienating sky customers or will be totally fta? or is it all still up in the air.

DMC

I will be stunned and surprised if its not completely FTA.

watty

The BBC are on record many times as totally opposed to encryption, even if it doesn't cost them a penny.

UK Media are notoriously inaccurate on Technology stories.

Nop01

watty wrote:

So yes it IS BBC and ITV, and very likely C4.

For various reasons Five is unlikely. But IMO no great hardship.

Even Five seems willing to join Freesat.

This is their response:

Channel 5
Five supports the BBC’s Freesat initiative as a worthwhile contribution to the process of digital switchover. We recognise that because Freeview is currently unavailable to over one quarter of households, for many people the only digital option they have is Sky. A Freesat offering would provide a valuable alternative route to digital for people who are unwilling for whatever reason to take up Sky’s subscription or “Freesat from Sky” offerings.
Five looks forward to joining the Freesat venture and to our service being made available on the new platform. However, it will take some time for us to negotiate appropriate agreements with rights holders to enable us to broadcast “in the clear”.
We therefore urge the BBC Trust to approve the proposal for Freesat proposed by the BBC Management

Nop01
The Netherlands

watty

However, it will take some time for us to negotiate appropriate agreements with rights holders to enable us to broadcast “in the clear”.

Translation
But we are in no hurry

Sponge Bob

or translation #2 "We in 5 have two other channels ( 5 live and 5 usa ) that we would continue to broadcast encrypted just like channel 4 will , if we cannot cut a deal on the main channel we will move the programs there "

watty

Jungle Boy: Your post does not make sense.

The BBC/ITV/C4 Freesat will not be launching till the time frame C4 will be sorted regarding rights and FTA.

Stuff can move from one 2D transponder to another transponder and you won't notice. Anything encrypted can move off 2D.

C4 will be just as accessible as BBC in Ireland. C4 will not produce a separate Irish service. That is not in their UK PSB mandate nor commercially needed. No doubt theywill continue to have an N.I. Advertising region, which will continue to have ROI adverts as it does at present. There are 5 or 6 C4 regions, only for Advertising.

I doubt the Freesat boxes will have any feature to use a pay TV card. Sky will not licence NDS and C4 nor Five will pay for Dual Encryption. BBC & ITV have imports. Anything not cleared for FTA will indeed be on Sky only.

Irish coverage as has been explained before is not actually an issue. It is UK coverage of imports bought by an Irish broadcaster that is the problem. This has all been "done to death" before.

In summary.
SC4~digidol was used as a test case for difficulties of FTA satellite.
BBC then used this to go FTA, as they had always intended!
ITV saw that the world did not end and was able to also negotiate FTA.
C4 was contractuarily TIED to Sky, they can't go FTA before 2008, even should they wanted to when BBC or ITV did. ITV was actually delayed also for waiting for a Sky contract to expire.

What is the nature of these mysterious Sky Contracts?
Sky charge millions for things that cost almost nothing, Encryption & EPG. I you are a worthless channel of no content value, you will pay over the odds for EPG and Encryption. If you are a "valuable asset" (RTE), then you can be offered even free carriage, free encryption and free EPG.
Or you can get cheaper rates if you let Sky have a channel as part of pay TV package.
Or channels like Hallmark, Disney, Nat Geo, Discovery then Sky has to pay them a percentage of viewer. Disney and MTV at various times have threatened to pull out entirely as they felt Sky did not give them enough.

ITV & C4 both did deals where they paid less than BBC for the FTV card scheme in exchange for other channels being part of Sky package. Such a deal for encryption can't be withdrawn from early.

RTE was stupid. They could have held out for Sky paying them. Instead they thought the deal was good as it put them on Satellite in similar terms (they thought) to NTL or Chorus carriage.

RTE couldn't understand then that Satellite is NOT an MMDS from the Sky. They are locked in to deal where Sky decides pack & pricing of Irish channels, and where RTE CAN'T offer FTA or alternate encryption till the deal expires.

Neither ITV nor C4 will sign up to such a deal again. ITV was fortunate as their deal expired some while ago and they were able to go FTA.

At the end of the day the desire of US & Sports to Chop EU into different viewing rights regions are only Civil contracts that may technically contravene EU law. Sky also deserves to have UK courts find that Pay TV *IS* and industry, and that Sky have a near or actual monoploy. What Sports & International TV rights owners want suits Sky very well, but rips off the European Consumer and reduces competition.

givecredit

watty wrote:

Translation
But we are in no hurry

Would it not be commercial suicide for FIVE not to be on this platform from the beginning. Cutting themselves off from 1/4 of the UK population. I would be surprised if Five were not now actively trying to get all ready for a Spring Launch in 2008.

watty

Very few people watch "Five". Analogue Terrestrial coverage is less than 80% compared with 99.95 or more for BBC/ITV/C4

They are on Cable, DTT, and Sky. They are not at all cutting themselves off. They may be positioning themselves as Pay TV only. At one stage they talked about leaving Analogue, (and DTT too if not payTV) and being PayTV only on Sky (and DTT if allowed to be PayTV). If Sky get permission for MPEG4 pay TV terrestrially, Five might go the pay TV only route.

BBC/ITV & C4 are regarded as the "Core" channels in UK.

Five was infact originally not meant to be on Analogue at all. They are in an odd category. C6 in Ireland is not 100% different.

bk

C4 and C5 will jump on this platform as soon as they can.

As Watty pointed out Sky charge ridiculous amounts of money for EPG carriage and encryption. If this new platform is successful then it will force Sky to vastly reduce it's EPG and encryption rates or risk losing lots of channels like C4, C5, MTV and Discovery to this new platform of course with the knock on effect of losing customers.

DTT Freeview has been a massive success, just recently it has surpassed Sky as the number one digital platform in the UK. The only limiting factor of Freeview is the relatively small number of channels it can carry, this won't be a problem for a Freeview Freesat service, so if it is even half the success that Freeview is, then almost every channel is going to want to be on it.

As for the rights to US shows, it won't really be that big of a problem, C4 and C5 will just start to negotiate FTA rights. I don't expect that there will be all that great a premium, the new sat services typically can only be picked up in the UK and Ireland, so adding Irish rights to existing UK agreements shouldn't cost all that much extra and they'll probably make up for it with the reductions Sky will eventually be forced to make.

Eventually it will get to the stage where there won't be any premium for FTA content, C4 and C5 simply wont agree to carry any shows that aren't licensed for FTA and the US companies won't have a choice.

Yes, it may well take 2 or 3 years to completely sort out, so initially you might only see C4 and C5 on freesat and not E4, etc. but eventually they all will be. In fact Film 4 already pretty much proves this, it already carries a lot of US films which have obviously been negotiated for FTA. In fact I'd be surprised if C4 and C5 aren't already negotiating FTA rights for any new shows they are signing up.

The interesting thing is that in 5 years time, this could greatly hurt Sky and lead to a situation where Sky is basically forced to give away most channels for free and only charge a subscription on their sports and movie channels.

It is just a pain I can't put a sat up in my apartment

bk

watty wrote:

They are not at all cutting themselves off. They may be positioning themselves as Pay TV only.

In the long term I think it would be suicide for them to go into pay TV only. Freesat along with the success of Freeview IMO is the beginning of the end for pay tv for general entertainment TV (not sports and movies) in the UK.

People will have so much TV choice on the free channels that few people will be all that worried about what they are missing on the pay tv channels. And of course the less people who sign up to the pay tv channels, the more they will need to charge, thus driving even more people away from pay tv.

This has already been proven by Freeview. It has now surpassed Sky as the number one digital platform in the UK. This proves that for an awful lot of people, 30 free channels is more then enough TV for them, they don't need to pay lots of money for 100's of channels on Sky. With Freesat there will likely be even more free channels, this will lead to people not really caring about Sky and C5 being pay tv.

Just look at Virgin, losing Sky hasn't seemed to really hurt them all that much. In the end I honestly think that C5 and Sky One and News will be forced to go free also or become greatly relegated (Sky One's viewing figures have massively dropped to under 1% since being pulled from Virgin, Sky is going tolose lots of advertising money).

watty

If Sky1 was not AUTOMATICALLY in every Sky pack how many would watch it?

BopNiblets

So, this will be like Sky Digital but you don't pay every month? Just pay once off for the box?

Blaster99

bk wrote:

It is just a pain I can't put a sat up in my apartment

Are you not feeling well? I thought NTL/UPC ruled supreme?

Foggy43

I can't see the logic behind this? What is the point in buying a new dish and a new receiver when 'free to air' is already there.

What will the difference be? FTA channels available on a EPG?

DMC

The premise is "Freeview for satellite". Its branding. Its putting together a coherent, user-friendly non-pay-TV option, ideally for those who cant get Freeview (DTT)

watty

From testing a wide variety of FTA receivers, I can tell you some stink on User Interface. Freeview will offer Interactive, Digital text and 1 or 2 week detail EPG, all currently only on Sky.

givecredit

watty wrote:

If Sky1 was not AUTOMATICALLY in every Sky pack how many would watch it?

Quite right. This boosts the argument, How many would watch Ch5 if you would have to pay to watch it. Not many, 8 million Sky Subscribers, Virgin Media Subscribers. What about the 20 Million people who dont have access to freeview and dont want pay tv. No tv channel is going to ignore this great opportunity to boost their viewing figures.

Looking forward to seeing Ch4 and Ch5 on "Freesat" next year.

watty

Well, while your arguments convince me, "givecredit", Five will not be in a rush. C4 will likely be on Freesat from Day1. If the platform is successful and Sky Install base is static or falls, then Maybe Five will go Freesat in 2009 or whenever their contract expires, which may be 2009 or later. I don't think Fives contract is earlier than 2009 as they more recently than C4 or RTE renewed a Sky contract.

Five can't go FTA before contract with Sky expires.

kilasser

I wonder what are the chances of RTE going on this freesat service. Maybe their new Tara like channel could go on there if it ever materialises. But I wonder would the UK broadcasters want RTE or TG4 on there.

bk

Blaster99 wrote:

Are you not feeling well? I thought NTL/UPC ruled supreme?

My apartment can't get them, Smart Telecom have exclusive access to the apartment block for their SmartVision service, I'd give my right arm to get UPC or even sat for that matter.

Foggy43 wrote:

I can't see the logic behind this? What is the point in buying a new dish and a new receiver when 'free to air' is already there.

What will the difference be? FTA channels available on a EPG?

1) A standardised (and I assume) high quality user interface and EPG.
2) Perhaps even interactive services.

But perhaps most importantly is branding and advertising.

Many ordinary people in Ireland and the UK don't realise that you can get many channels for free on sat. Most people think you have to get Sky. Also most FTA receivers are rather "geeky" to setup and use.

If the BBC heavily advertise and promote an easy to use free sat service in the same great manner that they have promoted Freeview. Then most ordinary people will quickly discover this great service and the more people who switch to it, then the more likely other channels like Discovery and MTV would be likely to go FTA.

And that would benefit all of us, even those of us who already have FTA setups.

Foggy43

DMC, bk!

After saying what I said I found that there will be big problems providing the same coverage with 'Freeview' that analogue gives or gave in the UK.

It would be nice to have a satellite platform that RM does not own.

Sorry it took so long to write the above. Totally distracted by TG4. Congragulations to Waterford! Very good game!

easkey

Freesat will be made available to consumers on the basis of a one-time initial payment with a guarantee of no further or ongoing subscription charges.
So say BBC. So by this I would take it you will be able to buy a box(Deco) in
any Electrical shop.
Ch 4 said...
"Under the Communications Act we would expect to become subject to obligations to ensure the availability of the core channel on all satellite platforms, which would require that Channel 4 was available on Freesat,"
Freeview now out-numbers Freesat from s*y..
Poor old Ru-Mor Profits down:):)

Still he is making a lot of money in Ireland.

givecredit

watty wrote:

Five can't go FTA before contract with Sky expires.

Good point. Hopefully thats sooner rather than later.

I would also like to see the likes of MTV, Flextech and the Virgin Media channels on Satellite go down the route of MTV in Germany and sell "smart cards" with monthly/quarterly/half yearly/yearly subscriptions built in. For example If you wants the Freesat channels and the MTV channels (Based on German prices) this would cost you €39.00 for 12 months subscription to MTV's 6 channels. (Circa €3.00 per month) instead of having to pay Sky €22.50 per month.

Setanta Sports should also look at this option. €18.00 per months for freesat channels and 6 sports channels. Sounds good to me.

Of course all this depends on The Freesat proposition including a cam or some sort of encryption in the box.(Like TOP UP TV on Freeview)

watty

The BBC will be opposed to the Freesat box having a CAM as they trust British Governments less than the SF does.

However you never know.

BBC's Freesat you only pay for the box... maybe install, but nothing else. No-one is going to at this stage try and compete with Sky Pay TV for pay channels. Topup TV was making use of the pre-installed base of old Ondigital/ITV Digital boxes. They sell a separate DTT box now.

givecredit

watty wrote:

The BBC will be opposed to the Freesat box having a CAM as they trust British Governments less than the SF does.
However you never know.

I would imagine it will be down to the various manufacturers and your pocket as to wether your "BBC FREESAT" box will have a cam or not.

L1011

Yes, but like the Freeview spec - it won't be required to get the logo.. Meaning the VAST majority of boxes won't have it.