Nut flush Draw v. LAG opponent

DubTony

These hands seem to get me in trouble way too often. I usually find myself folding like a wimp or losing it all.

This guy open raised 6 or 7 in a row recently. He sat back for a few hands and is at it again. Its hard to put him ona ahand as he has only shown down once (KK, the last hand of his raising rush - All in preflop vs. AK)
He has re-raised and then folded to a raise a couple of times.



Full Tilt Poker Game #2295426398: Table Urtima (6 max) - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:35:13 ET - 2007/04/26
Seat 1: bnrocks ($4.75)
Seat 2: RicRock67 ($15.15)
Seat 3: vhdlr ($2.90)
Seat 4: TonyIE40 ($11.10)
Seat 5: StrongMonty ($3.70)
Seat 6: Toby97365 ($8)
TonyIE40 posts the small blind of $0.05
StrongMonty posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TonyIE40 [3h Kh]
Toby97365 folds
bnrocks folds
RicRock67 raises to $0.40
vhdlr folds
TonyIE40 calls $0.35
StrongMonty folds
*** FLOP *** [5h Ah 6c] Pot is $0.90
Toby97365 is feeling happy
TonyIE40 bets $0.55 Pot $1.45
[/B]RicRock67 raises to $2.55[/B] Re-raising seems fairly standard for him, although I don't know about the bet size


Anyone pushing here?

Lafortezza

I doubt he's folding any Ax so I'd probably check it to him on the flop. Then call or fold depending how much he bets.

Good to see Toby is happy though.

valor

PF is really bad

DubTony

valor wrote:

PF is really bad

Another fine example of the reason this forum has so many lurkers.


Thanks Valor. PF is really bad. I should have raised the f*cker or dropped it, but the question wasn't how's my play so far, it's more to do with what's next based on the information provided about my opponent.

Thanks for your useful comment though.

valor

lol, you sure arent getting any comments on the rest of the hand now

Hectorjelly

Preflop is awful, the reason its awful is because you get in situations like you find yourself here. Just let him take the blinds, by calling preflop you are creating a profitable situation for him.

As for the flop you should push all in once he raises you. He might not have an ace and he is unlikely to call without one, he may even fold one.

semibluff

i dont like the overbet on the flop- but that wasnt your Q

so i would flat call his re-raise on the flop and pray 4 a heart (he priced you into the call)
If he is a constant re-raiser then you prob shouldnt have inflamed (increased) the pot by betting out -

in fairness its very hard to just comment on the What to do next aspect - the problem is your play pre flop perhaps the overbet on the flop too - it is not being brought to your attention to "rub it in" but these are the questions that need answering more than the one you asked.

If your willing to call a large raise pre flop then tanking it with the nuts draw is one of the best scenarios you can hope for with K3h (although with prob no fold equity you shouldnt?!?!)

As played i check fold turn if missed (unless a rid small bet)

ahhhhhhhhhhhh my head hurts!

bed time

Hectorjelly

semibluff wrote:

i dont like the overbet on the flop- but that wasnt your Q

<snip>

ahhhhhhhhhhhh my head hurts!

bed time

he underbet the pot on the flop, and I think with your username you should be more aggressive in your advice. Do you not think an aggro opponent can raise his weak lead with less than an ace?

Hectorjelly

lafortezza wrote:

I doubt he's folding any Ax so I'd probably check it to him on the flop. Then call or fold depending how much he bets.

Good to see Toby is happy though.

how do you know he has Ax? Esp before you bet

Lafortezza

Hectorjelly wrote:

how do you know he has Ax? Esp before you bet

You don't, but a raise pf, you bet the flop, if you get action then Ax is a very high % for Villain's hand. At these stakes against an aggro opponent (who might raise hands other than Ax when you bet the flop) I think checking is better.

Hectorjelly

Why is checking better?

pok3rplaya

preflop is terrible. Get some discipline or give up poker.

And making smart ass posts when people try to help you is not a good idea if you want to learn anything.

Mr.Plough

valor wrote:

lol, you sure arent getting any comments on the rest of the hand now

lol say hes gutted

ntlbell

DubTony wrote:

Another fine example of the reason this forum has so many lurkers.


Thanks Valor. PF is really bad. I should have raised the f*cker or dropped it, but the question wasn't how's my play so far, it's more to do with what's next based on the information provided about my opponent.

Thanks for your useful comment though.

Tony as much as Valor gets up my t*ts with his bland unhelpfull comments.

PF is really really bad. You shouldn't have raised you should have just folded.

Getting involved with bad LAGS with muck is not the way to put manners on them, you're just playing into his hands.

phantom_lord

Tony as much as Valor gets up my t*ts with his bland unhelpfull comments.

i think valors replies are fine.


fold pf. prob just push now. good for the metagame anyway.

ntlbell

phantom_lord wrote:

i think valors replies are fine.

No.

ntlbell

phantom_lord wrote:

i think valors replies are fine.


fold pf. prob just push now. good for the metagame anyway.

And more to the point, when Valor posts some HH's and gets similar replies he wants people to explain why.

seems a bit one sided imo

pok3rplaya

ntlbell wrote:

Tony as much as Valor gets up my t*ts with his bland unhelpfull comments.

Maybe if you were willing to put a little bit of thought in for youself you would find them more helpful. Do you expect to be spoonfed the answers to every question you have?

RacingSilver

ntlbell Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom_lord
i think valors replies are fine.


fold pf. prob just push now. good for the metagame anyway.


And more to the point, when Valor posts some HH's and gets similar replies he wants people to explain why.

seems a bit one sided imo

Valor's HHs are interesting and worthy of discussion.
The PF play in this hand is the main issue, so Valor's comment is spot on.
As for the original question, not a great deal of difference between calling and raising all-in. Definitely don't fold, be happy, your bad call pre-flop combined with your opponent's min raise has turned a bad situation into a good one.

ntlbell

pok3rplaya wrote:

Maybe if you were willing to put a little bit of thought in for youself you would find them more helpful. Do you expect to be spoonfed the answers to every question you have?

No, I very very rarley ask for any help on the forum, but thankfully the rare times I have I've gotten decent responses.

So don't go directing your nonsense at me.

There is a big differencing in spoon feeding and explaining a response.

If a player asks a question about a preflop call or a specfic line he took in a hand answering "it's bad" "awful" doesn't really help the OP as it's not telling him why it's bad.

I don't want him to write essay's or spoon feed but if he's not going to explain his thought process or his bland unhelpfull answer then simply don't bother replying to the post.

ntlbell

RacingSilver wrote:

Valor's HHs are interesting and worthy of discussion.

We're not discussing his HH's but his responses to others.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

pok3rplaya

ntlbell wrote:

No, I very very rarley ask for any help on the forum, but thankfully the rare times I have I've gotten decent responses.

So don't go directing your nonsense at me.

There is a big differencing in spoon feeding and explaining a response.

If a player asks a question about a preflop call or a specfic line he took in a hand answering "it's bad" "awful" doesn't really help the OP as it's not telling him why it's bad.

I don't want him to write essay's or spoon feed but if he's not going to explain his thought process or his bland unhelpfull answer then simply don't bother replying to the post.

OK I'm sorry. Let me reprase.

Maybe if people were willing to put a little bit of thought in for themselves they would find them more helpful. I don't understand why people feel they deserve to be spoonfed the answers to every question they have. The reason I directed my response at you is because you were the person who voiced your opinion.

Firstly in defence of Valor, he posts in nearly every HH thread that gets posted on boards and IMO his advice is spot on 95% of the time. If people were willing to internalise the things he said and think about why he says them themselves, they would learn alot.

It seems though, like this sounds like far too much work for the majority of people who expect to be spoonfed the minute details of every bad decision they make.

Anyways, I cant remember wtf my point was. Just consider the possibility that maybe it's the people who wont think who are at fault and not the people who post short replys.

pok3rplaya

lol that was the worst pot ever

pok3rplaya

post even. I'm losing it today.

ntlbell

pok3rplaya wrote:

OK I'm sorry. Let me reprase.

Maybe if people were willing to put a little bit of thought in for themselves they would find them more helpful. I don't understand why people feel they deserve to be spoonfed the answers to every question they have. The reason I directed my response at you is because you were the person who voiced your opinion.

Firstly in defence of Valor, he posts in nearly every HH thread that gets posted on boards and IMO his advice is spot on 95% of the time. If people were willing to internalise the things he said and think about why he says them themselves, they would learn alot.

It seems though, like this sounds like far too much work for the majority of people who expect to be spoonfed the minute details of every bad decision they make.

Anyways, I cant remember wtf my point was. Just consider the possibility that maybe it's the people who wont think who are at fault and not the people who post short replys.

I'm sure there's a time and place for the killer one worded response and depending on who the poster is it might be well indeed enough.

But as I said before when Valor post's a HH's and gets a similar response he wants people to expand on them.

Now does he want to be spoonfed and answer or does he want someones genuine evaluation of the hand?

If it's the latter then he should also be willing to do the same for others not _all_ the time but when the hand warrant's a bit more information for the OP to understand his mistake.

If people like HJ/Fuzz/Pillowtalk/Ste05/Ian/yourself and other good posters answered like Valor this would be a very boring forum and no one would really benfit from it.

I don't want to drag this out anymore than it needs to be.

pok3rplaya

ntlbell wrote:

I don't want to drag this out anymore than it needs to be.

Aha!! Short answer!

bops

I can't believe i missed all the handbags!!

firstly, Preflop is fine if you want to call with probably the worst hand oop

secondly, push now

and finally:
WTF is this about??

Toby97365 is feeling happy

more handbags plz

ntlbell

bops wrote:

I can't believe i missed all the handbags!!

firstly, Preflop is fine if you want to call with probably the worst hand oop

secondly, push now

and finally:
WTF is this about??



more handbags plz

I'm assuming he was feeling happy about the nut flush draw.

I'll give you handbags!!!

phantom_lord

i presume it's the full tilt changeable avatars thing.

pok3rplaya

yeah your ma

valor

pok3rplaya wrote:

yeah your ma

HOLLA

Ste05

valor wrote:

HOLLA

LOL, is Pok3rplaya the spokesman and representative for Valor on all matters requiring more than 6 words??

pok3rplaya

pok3rplaya wrote:

yeah your ma

.

valor

Homie got my back on the internets yo

Ste05

valor wrote:

Homie got my back on the internets yo

Ahh Valor I was trying to restrict you to 6 words, You had to go and post 8... LOL

ntlbell

Ste05 wrote:

LOL, is Pok3rplaya the spokesman and representative for Valor on all matters requiring more than 6 words??

If I understand the situtation correctly they're "touch willie's" partners.


Valor: HeeHee!
Pok3r: What?
Valor: You touched it!!
Pok3r: What?
Valor: My Willie!!!
Pok3r: HeeHee!!

It's an interesting relationship.

pok3rplaya

too far bell, too far

pok3rplaya

It was all fun and games up to a point, but to attack a mans sexuality on a public forum...

bops

that's more like it girls! swing away!!!!

pok3rplaya

Lets just all gang up on bops.

That pobs guy huh... what an eejit..

bops

...fat head must be on holidays...

ntlbell

pok3rplaya wrote:

It was all fun and games up to a point, but to attack a mans sexuality on a public forum...

Having sex with a fellow male poker player doesn't make you gay.

Touching willie's doesn't make you gay.

It's the hugging and the kissing.

ntlbell

bops wrote:

we should get our own sub forum??

You bops should have your own forum.

bops

we should get our own sub forum??

[edit]not for homesexual discussions btw

bops

do you gaet banned often bell?

bops

ntlbell wrote:

You bops should have your own forum.

im liking your thinking - donkey corner??

ntlbell

bops wrote:

do you gaet banned often bell?

Once in about 3 years, why?:D

bops

ntlbell wrote:

Once in about 3 weeks, why?:D

slightly amended

ianmc38

ntlbell wrote:

If I understand the situtation correctly they're "touch willie's" partners.


Valor: HeeHee!
Pok3r: What?
Valor: You touched it!!
Pok3r: What?
Valor: My Willie!!!
Pok3r: HeeHee!!

It's an interesting relationship.

Legend.

pok3rplaya

right it's beer time. I'm out.