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Nut flush Draw v. LAG opponent

  • 26-04-2007 11:59pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭


    These hands seem to get me in trouble way too often. I usually find myself folding like a wimp or losing it all.

    This guy open raised 6 or 7 in a row recently. He sat back for a few hands and is at it again. Its hard to put him ona ahand as he has only shown down once (KK, the last hand of his raising rush - All in preflop vs. AK)
    He has re-raised and then folded to a raise a couple of times.



    Full Tilt Poker Game #2295426398: Table Urtima (6 max) - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:35:13 ET - 2007/04/26
    Seat 1: bnrocks ($4.75)
    Seat 2: RicRock67 ($15.15)
    Seat 3: vhdlr ($2.90)
    Seat 4: TonyIE40 ($11.10)
    Seat 5: StrongMonty ($3.70)
    Seat 6: Toby97365 ($8)
    TonyIE40 posts the small blind of $0.05
    StrongMonty posts the big blind of $0.10
    The button is in seat #3
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to TonyIE40 [3h Kh]
    Toby97365 folds
    bnrocks folds
    RicRock67 raises to $0.40
    vhdlr folds
    TonyIE40 calls $0.35
    StrongMonty folds
    *** FLOP *** [5h Ah 6c] Pot is $0.90
    Toby97365 is feeling happy
    TonyIE40 bets $0.55 Pot $1.45
    [/B]RicRock67 raises to $2.55[/B] Re-raising seems fairly standard for him, although I don't know about the bet size


    Anyone pushing here?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,806 ✭✭✭Lafortezza


    I doubt he's folding any Ax so I'd probably check it to him on the flop. Then call or fold depending how much he bets.

    Good to see Toby is happy though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭valor


    PF is really bad


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭DubTony


    valor wrote:
    PF is really bad

    Another fine example of the reason this forum has so many lurkers.


    Thanks Valor. PF is really bad. I should have raised the f*cker or dropped it, but the question wasn't how's my play so far, it's more to do with what's next based on the information provided about my opponent.

    Thanks for your useful comment though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭valor


    lol, you sure arent getting any comments on the rest of the hand now


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Hectorjelly


    Preflop is awful, the reason its awful is because you get in situations like you find yourself here. Just let him take the blinds, by calling preflop you are creating a profitable situation for him.

    As for the flop you should push all in once he raises you. He might not have an ace and he is unlikely to call without one, he may even fold one.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭semibluff


    i dont like the overbet on the flop- but that wasnt your Q

    so i would flat call his re-raise on the flop and pray 4 a heart (he priced you into the call)
    If he is a constant re-raiser then you prob shouldnt have inflamed (increased) the pot by betting out -

    in fairness its very hard to just comment on the What to do next aspect - the problem is your play pre flop perhaps the overbet on the flop too - it is not being brought to your attention to "rub it in" but these are the questions that need answering more than the one you asked.

    If your willing to call a large raise pre flop then tanking it with the nuts draw is one of the best scenarios you can hope for with K3h (although with prob no fold equity you shouldnt?!?!)

    As played i check fold turn if missed (unless a rid small bet)

    ahhhhhhhhhhhh my head hurts!

    bed time


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Hectorjelly


    semibluff wrote:
    i dont like the overbet on the flop- but that wasnt your Q

    <snip>

    ahhhhhhhhhhhh my head hurts!

    bed time

    he underbet the pot on the flop, and I think with your username you should be more aggressive in your advice. Do you not think an aggro opponent can raise his weak lead with less than an ace?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Hectorjelly


    lafortezza wrote:
    I doubt he's folding any Ax so I'd probably check it to him on the flop. Then call or fold depending how much he bets.

    Good to see Toby is happy though.

    how do you know he has Ax? Esp before you bet


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,806 ✭✭✭Lafortezza


    how do you know he has Ax? Esp before you bet
    You don't, but a raise pf, you bet the flop, if you get action then Ax is a very high % for Villain's hand. At these stakes against an aggro opponent (who might raise hands other than Ax when you bet the flop) I think checking is better.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Hectorjelly


    Why is checking better?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭pok3rplaya


    preflop is terrible. Get some discipline or give up poker.

    And making smart ass posts when people try to help you is not a good idea if you want to learn anything.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭Mr.Plough


    valor wrote:
    lol, you sure arent getting any comments on the rest of the hand now


    lol say hes gutted


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    DubTony wrote:
    Another fine example of the reason this forum has so many lurkers.


    Thanks Valor. PF is really bad. I should have raised the f*cker or dropped it, but the question wasn't how's my play so far, it's more to do with what's next based on the information provided about my opponent.

    Thanks for your useful comment though.

    Tony as much as Valor gets up my t*ts with his bland unhelpfull comments.

    PF is really really bad. You shouldn't have raised you should have just folded.

    Getting involved with bad LAGS with muck is not the way to put manners on them, you're just playing into his hands.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,895 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    Tony as much as Valor gets up my t*ts with his bland unhelpfull comments.

    i think valors replies are fine.


    fold pf. prob just push now. good for the metagame anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    i think valors replies are fine.

    No.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    i think valors replies are fine.


    fold pf. prob just push now. good for the metagame anyway.

    And more to the point, when Valor posts some HH's and gets similar replies he wants people to explain why.

    seems a bit one sided imo


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭pok3rplaya


    ntlbell wrote:
    Tony as much as Valor gets up my t*ts with his bland unhelpfull comments.

    Maybe if you were willing to put a little bit of thought in for youself you would find them more helpful. Do you expect to be spoonfed the answers to every question you have?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 143 ✭✭RacingSilver


    ntlbell Quote:
    Originally Posted by phantom_lord
    i think valors replies are fine.


    fold pf. prob just push now. good for the metagame anyway.


    And more to the point, when Valor posts some HH's and gets similar replies he wants people to explain why.

    seems a bit one sided imo

    Valor's HHs are interesting and worthy of discussion.
    The PF play in this hand is the main issue, so Valor's comment is spot on.
    As for the original question, not a great deal of difference between calling and raising all-in. Definitely don't fold, be happy, your bad call pre-flop combined with your opponent's min raise has turned a bad situation into a good one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    pok3rplaya wrote:
    Maybe if you were willing to put a little bit of thought in for youself you would find them more helpful. Do you expect to be spoonfed the answers to every question you have?

    No, I very very rarley ask for any help on the forum, but thankfully the rare times I have I've gotten decent responses.

    So don't go directing your nonsense at me.

    There is a big differencing in spoon feeding and explaining a response.

    If a player asks a question about a preflop call or a specfic line he took in a hand answering "it's bad" "awful" doesn't really help the OP as it's not telling him why it's bad.

    I don't want him to write essay's or spoon feed but if he's not going to explain his thought process or his bland unhelpfull answer then simply don't bother replying to the post.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    Valor's HHs are interesting and worthy of discussion.

    We're not discussing his HH's but his responses to others.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,502 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭pok3rplaya


    ntlbell wrote:
    No, I very very rarley ask for any help on the forum, but thankfully the rare times I have I've gotten decent responses.

    So don't go directing your nonsense at me.

    There is a big differencing in spoon feeding and explaining a response.

    If a player asks a question about a preflop call or a specfic line he took in a hand answering "it's bad" "awful" doesn't really help the OP as it's not telling him why it's bad.

    I don't want him to write essay's or spoon feed but if he's not going to explain his thought process or his bland unhelpfull answer then simply don't bother replying to the post.


    OK I'm sorry. Let me reprase.

    Maybe if people were willing to put a little bit of thought in for themselves they would find them more helpful. I don't understand why people feel they deserve to be spoonfed the answers to every question they have. The reason I directed my response at you is because you were the person who voiced your opinion.

    Firstly in defence of Valor, he posts in nearly every HH thread that gets posted on boards and IMO his advice is spot on 95% of the time. If people were willing to internalise the things he said and think about why he says them themselves, they would learn alot.

    It seems though, like this sounds like far too much work for the majority of people who expect to be spoonfed the minute details of every bad decision they make.

    Anyways, I cant remember wtf my point was. Just consider the possibility that maybe it's the people who wont think who are at fault and not the people who post short replys.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭pok3rplaya


    lol that was the worst pot ever


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭pok3rplaya


    post even. I'm losing it today.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    pok3rplaya wrote:
    OK I'm sorry. Let me reprase.

    Maybe if people were willing to put a little bit of thought in for themselves they would find them more helpful. I don't understand why people feel they deserve to be spoonfed the answers to every question they have. The reason I directed my response at you is because you were the person who voiced your opinion.

    Firstly in defence of Valor, he posts in nearly every HH thread that gets posted on boards and IMO his advice is spot on 95% of the time. If people were willing to internalise the things he said and think about why he says them themselves, they would learn alot.

    It seems though, like this sounds like far too much work for the majority of people who expect to be spoonfed the minute details of every bad decision they make.

    Anyways, I cant remember wtf my point was. Just consider the possibility that maybe it's the people who wont think who are at fault and not the people who post short replys.

    I'm sure there's a time and place for the killer one worded response and depending on who the poster is it might be well indeed enough.

    But as I said before when Valor post's a HH's and gets a similar response he wants people to expand on them.

    Now does he want to be spoonfed and answer or does he want someones genuine evaluation of the hand?

    If it's the latter then he should also be willing to do the same for others not _all_ the time but when the hand warrant's a bit more information for the OP to understand his mistake.

    If people like HJ/Fuzz/Pillowtalk/Ste05/Ian/yourself and other good posters answered like Valor this would be a very boring forum and no one would really benfit from it.

    I don't want to drag this out anymore than it needs to be.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭pok3rplaya


    ntlbell wrote:

    I don't want to drag this out anymore than it needs to be.

    Aha!! Short answer! :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭bops


    I can't believe i missed all the handbags!!

    firstly, Preflop is fine if you want to call with probably the worst hand oop

    secondly, push now

    and finally:
    WTF is this about??
    Toby97365 is feeling happy

    more handbags plz :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    bops wrote:
    I can't believe i missed all the handbags!!

    firstly, Preflop is fine if you want to call with probably the worst hand oop

    secondly, push now

    and finally:
    WTF is this about??



    more handbags plz :)

    I'm assuming he was feeling happy about the nut flush draw.

    I'll give you handbags!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,895 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    i presume it's the full tilt changeable avatars thing.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭pok3rplaya


    yeah your ma


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭valor


    pok3rplaya wrote:
    yeah your ma

    HOLLA


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Ste05


    valor wrote:
    HOLLA
    LOL, is Pok3rplaya the spokesman and representative for Valor on all matters requiring more than 6 words?? :D:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭pok3rplaya


    pok3rplaya wrote:
    yeah your ma
    .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭valor


    Homie got my back on the internets yo


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Ste05


    valor wrote:
    Homie got my back on the internets yo
    Ahh Valor I was trying to restrict you to 6 words, :D You had to go and post 8... LOL


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    Ste05 wrote:
    LOL, is Pok3rplaya the spokesman and representative for Valor on all matters requiring more than 6 words?? :D:D

    If I understand the situtation correctly they're "touch willie's" partners.


    Valor: HeeHee!
    Pok3r: What?
    Valor: You touched it!!
    Pok3r: What?
    Valor: My Willie!!!
    Pok3r: HeeHee!!

    It's an interesting relationship.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭pok3rplaya


    too far bell, too far


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭pok3rplaya


    It was all fun and games up to a point, but to attack a mans sexuality on a public forum...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭bops


    that's more like it girls! swing away!!!! :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭pok3rplaya


    Lets just all gang up on bops.

    That pobs guy huh... what an eejit..


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭bops


    ...fat head must be on holidays...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    pok3rplaya wrote:
    It was all fun and games up to a point, but to attack a mans sexuality on a public forum...

    Having sex with a fellow male poker player doesn't make you gay.

    Touching willie's doesn't make you gay.

    It's the hugging and the kissing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    bops wrote:
    we should get our own sub forum??

    You bops should have your own forum. ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭bops


    we should get our own sub forum??

    [edit]not for homesexual discussions btw


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭bops


    do you gaet banned often bell?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭bops


    ntlbell wrote:
    You bops should have your own forum. ;)

    im liking your thinking - donkey corner??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    bops wrote:
    do you gaet banned often bell?

    Once in about 3 years, why?:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭bops


    ntlbell wrote:
    Once in about 3 weeks, why?:D

    slightly amended


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,754 ✭✭✭ianmc38


    ntlbell wrote:
    If I understand the situtation correctly they're "touch willie's" partners.


    Valor: HeeHee!
    Pok3r: What?
    Valor: You touched it!!
    Pok3r: What?
    Valor: My Willie!!!
    Pok3r: HeeHee!!

    It's an interesting relationship.

    Legend.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭pok3rplaya


    right it's beer time. I'm out.


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