Constitutional Referendum

Out of curiousity, has anyone voted yet? The polls were open today from 4pm - 8pm (in the Hamilton & Arts anyways) and are open tomorrow from 10am - 5pm (I think).

My guess for turnout is 900. Info from the 'weekly' e-mail:

Hey guys,

After a motion passed at SU Council last week, we will next week be polling on whether or not to adopt a new Students' Union Constitution. The new document is an updated version based on the current one and its formation has come about after discussions within the Students' Union Council, the Executive, a special meeting of the Union Development Committee and other fora.

If you wish to view the proposed constitution, visit:
http://www.tcdsu.tcdlife.ie/downloads/ProposedConst.pdf

If you wish to view the current constitution, visit:
http://www.tcdsu.tcdlife.ie/downloads/constitution.pdf

To read a brief summary document which explains the changes, visit: http://www.tcdsu.tcdlife.ie/downloads/Constitutional%20Change%20Summary.pdf

Polling will take place on Wednesday and Thursday of next week (25th and 26th April). Details of exact times will be included in the general weekly e-mail.

There will be an open meeting in the Joly Theatre in the Hamilton Building on Tuesday 24th April at 7pm where Union members can come along and hear an explanation of changes and may ask questions and seek clarification on any issues.

While this is relatively short notice, the hope is that people will have the chance to view the documents over the weekend and the early parts of next week. All the information necessary is now online so check it out whenever you can. If you have any queries and can't make it along on Tuesday, please e-mail Rob on education@tcdsu.org or Dave on president@tcdsu.org.

And don't forget to get out and vote if you can.

David

europerson

B.ie, Ibid and I all voted earlier. We (most specifically Ibid) were almost "excluded from the polling area" by Awayindahils and some Electoral Commission chap for questioning practically everything about the SU, its policies, the referendum, and the Electoral Commission and its procedures.

If you don't get this, don't worry: following the PHB School of Estimation of Readership and Electoral Turn-Out, I'd put turn-out at about nine people.

foxybrowne

Will vote tommorrow - I can't wait. I am worried though that in a fit of insanity I might vote no. Anyone else got the same concern?

Tacitha

So do postgrads get to vote on this one?

Yep.

Ideo

My word of the day? Apathy.

xebec

Tacitha wrote:

So do postgrads get to vote on this one?

Good question, they have their own Union but as far as I know they also have a say in the regular SU.

I'd say they'll be lucky to get near 1000, I think it's more likely to be around 700.

Time Magazine

I voted No in light of the shambolic organisation of the event. Regardless of the ineptitude of any particular sabbatical officer, it's ridiculous that those students who had no access to emails over the weekend found out about this referendum on Monday at the earliest. This, in Week 4 of Trinity Term.

Tacitha

Well, given that the new constitution revises the relationship between GSU and SU, and presuming that postgrads can vote in this referendum, I'd certainly be inclined to vote no on the basis that 29% of the electorate seems not to have been told anything at all.

Haven't had an e-mail about it yet. Are there posters around campus?

Main problem with the text messages, I think, would be that the officer identifies himself as 'from the SU'. Which seems to go against 5d in the document:

The Union shall treat both sides in a referendum
campaign equally....

What's the rush, anyway? I can't imagine there'd be much trouble getting this through without this very offputting approach. I think it's quite bad for the union.

King.Penguin

I actually was caught by surprise by this referundum. I didn't read any of the material so I didn't know what the story was. I remembered (or imagined) I read something about someone improving the constitution so I voted yes.

I remeber hearing stuff about this.. didn't it make a bit of a fuss last year? Or was that a different thing?

Stargal

Wasn't there something about students being able to vote online for this referendum? Someone told me about this last week, but from what Myth posted it doesn't sound like it's actually happening.

original_psycho

original_psycho wrote:

I remeber hearing stuff about this.. didn't it make a bit of a fuss last year? Or was that a different thing?

There was a constitutional referendum last year. I don't remember any bit of a fuss about it though!

Laika wrote:

Wasn't there something about students being able to vote online for this referendum? Someone told me about this last week, but from what Myth posted it doesn't sound like it's actually happening.

It was suggested that the EC look into it, but I've no idea what happened with it. I voted yesterday using "our silly aul' system" to paraphrase aul' Bertie.

osd

original_psycho wrote:

I remeber hearing stuff about this.. didn't it make a bit of a fuss last year? Or was that a different thing?

Last years campaign was run by myself since almost everyone else involved in the drafting was either an SU Sabbat, electoral commission or involved in an election campaign. There was only positive feedback when I was on the stands and handing out manifestos for it. So crossing fingers you're thinking of something else.

The year you're probably thinking about was Heledd's year where there were reps struck off mid council to try and get the motion calling for a constitutional referendum. The meeting was ended by Francis (Chair at the time) and an emergency council was called for a few days later. TN went to town about her actions at the time.

My only comment on the text message thing is that Myth was very strict with me about running the yes campaign and to make sure that it didn't look like an SU supported campaign in the interest of fairness. In addition when previous referenda were held with Sabbat's pressing for a yea or nea they would take the day off and campaign on their own time (Will Priestley & USI affiliation as a case in point).

xebec

Ah feck, was down that end of college a while ago and had the intention of voting, but I forgot. Now I have to make the long walk all the way down there again At least it's sunny

Crash

You all have high aims for turnouts - was working polling in the hamilton from 10 til 2 today - dont think it'll get all that high

King.Penguin

what do people think about internet voting? Something along the lines of, you throw your student number and date of birth into a webpage and vote for the different officers? We could see voting go up from 3-4000 to 7-800. especially if campaigners were good at getting people's details.

Comhra....

my estimate for turnout is about 200 or so

xebec

Looks like it's gonna be a Yes win, I saw the ballots from the first 3 of the 5 boxes. With a turnout of around 200 - 250. (My estimates!)

Crash

if it close to 245 I win a bet.

Total poll was 203 so I was told, with 3 being spoils. 151 Yes and 49 No.

Moorsy

The Turnout was...wait for it....203.

3 Spoils
151 Yes Votes
49 No Votes.

The referendum was deemed to pass.


It was a bit of a mess from a publicity side. Polling was only finalised last Thursday( note a day after the TCDSU President sent an e-mail saying the dates!!). The publicity Officer did nothing in retrospect to publicity or informing students. While I was at the stand the most common comment was "Is this the levy thing for the Sports Hall?".

Moorsy

God dammit you got there before me....

Moorsy

Moorsy wrote:

"Is this the levy thing for the Sports Hall?".

Yeah... today's referendum mightn't be the last referendum this year.

Moorsy

10th of May is the unconfirmed date for the next referendum. Becasue the SU Council didn't get it through DUCAC went ahead and did the shizle themselves.


As Far as I have heard the levy is 70 euro..........

Moorsy

Moorsy wrote:

10th of May is the unconfirmed date for the next referendum. Becasue the SU Council didn't get it through DUCAC went ahead and did the shizle themselves.

As Far as I have heard the levy is 70 euro..........

What happened to the proposal for €40?

Moorsy

Well I'm not sure. Either they didn't listen to Quinn or they just went ahead and negotiated with College on there own. I think the latter is the true version.

So get ready for another turnout of defo below 1000. One day voting just Hamilton and Arts Block.

70 * 15,000 = €1,050,000.
40 * 15,000 = €600,000.

That's some bit of difference! Where's the €450,000 extra going? The difference is now more then the SU or CSC or DUCAC get per year.

Crash

yeah, I don't think this levy is gonna be one supported by el presidente etc. - 70 is waaay steep in comparison with 40. love to see how those figures work out.

xebec

Moorsy wrote:

So get ready for another turnout of defo below 1000. One day voting just Hamilton and Arts Block.

I'd say that referendum will get a far larger turnout than this one. I wouldn't be surprised at 1200 - 1500 turnout. It needs to be promoted much better than this one though!!

And why just one day of polling? They could set up a polling booth in Goldsmith on the Friday morning to catch the people collecting their Ball tickets.

xebec

xebec wrote:

And why just one day of polling? They could set up a polling booth in Goldsmith on the Friday morning to catch the people collecting their Ball tickets.

Hrm. Goldsmith would be mad enough on that day tbh.

King.Penguin

lolololol 200 votes. ddi the su officers not even get their friends to vote?

Time Magazine

And so 151 people, less than 1% of the 15,428 or so people registered, pass a new constitution for the Students' Union.

Well done lads.

Stargal

What a joke. If there are any contentious issues arising from that constitution in coming years it's going to be very difficult for it to claim any kind of legitimacy.

europerson

I'm a reasonable man, but that really is a sham.

Andrew 83

What an appalling turnout, shockingly bad.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

wow ... 203 ... just wow

PHB

PHB's school of estimation wasn't far off was it?

foxybrowne

Is there not a minimum needed to pass a const. ref.?

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

foxybrowne wrote:

Is there not a minimum needed to pass a const. ref.?

no, there was a change a few years back (changed from 10% of student body to no minimum AFAIK)

King.Penguin

This means they could have a referendum about anything, not publicise it, have 10 people vote in favour and get it passed. Now that's what I call fast-track politics.

osd

King.Penguin wrote:

This means they could have a referendum about anything, not publicise it, have 10 people vote in favour and get it passed. Now that's what I call fast-track politics.

Nope...
Constitutional Referenda requires 500 signatures OR three-quarters majority of SU Council to be called.
Policy Referenda requires 250 signatures OR two-thirds majority in SU Council.
The Union is constitutionally obliged to publicise referenda.

Time Magazine

osd wrote:

The Union is constitutionally obliged to publicise referenda.

And they met that constitutional requirement with honours this time around...

Constitutional requirement my arse. Who should one complain to about Simon's entire lack of publicity? The EC? As I said, my arse. The Electrical Conditioners are about as capable and competent in upholding the sacred SU Constitution (now the third one since I entered College) as they are to showing common sense.

osd

Ibid wrote:

And they met that constitutional requirement with honours this time around...

Constitutional requirement my arse. Who should one complain to about Simon's entire lack of publicity? The EC? As I said, my arse. The Electrical Conditioners are about as capable and competent in upholding the sacred SU Constitution (now the third one since I entered College) as they are to showing common sense.

Sorry for being brazen but... It's OUR responsibility! The only way to fire a Sabbatical Officer is to call a referendum with signatures or via council. It's been tried before so it's not a fanciful idea.
I've been through 6 or 7 amended constitutions since I came to TCD, it's a living document that is updated when needed so don't think twice about it.

Time Magazine

osd wrote:

Sorry for being brazen but... It's OUR responsibility! The only way to fire a Sabbatical Officer is to call a referendum with signatures or via council. It's been tried before so it's not a fanciful idea.
I've been through 6 or 7 amended constitutions since I came to TCD, it's a living document that is updated when needed so don't think twice about it.

Well I'm as hammered asa skunk right now but let me tell you one thing.... one year fecking unrenewable contract that's alrready been given to another person? Who the fock cares if theman is let go like? He probably doesn't care.He's probably gotten 8 of his 10 grand at this stage.

Living document doesn't necessarilyu mean changed at a fecking whim document.

The space bar is hard to press .

I might g3e3t some signatures to get Rob to resign for the ironing value though. Rob.

xeduCat

Can someone lock that post so that Ibid can never delete it?



I mean...

Cansho&m 1 lcok that poistt so that ibId can never dletit!

Stargal

Ibid wrote:

Well I'm as hammered asa skunk right now but let me tell you one thing.... one year fecking unrenewable contract that's alrready been given to another person? Who the fock cares if theman is let go like? He probably doesn't care.He's probably gotten 8 of his 10 grand at this stage.

Living document doesn't necessarilyu mean changed at a fecking whim document.

The space bar is hard to press .

I might g3e3t some signatures to get Rob to resign for the ironing value though. Rob.

I drunk Ibid. Don't ever sober up.

xebec

Ibid wrote:

Well I'm as hammered asa skunk right now but let me tell you one thing.... one year fecking unrenewable contract that's alrready been given to another person? Who the fock cares if theman is let go like? He probably doesn't care.He's probably gotten 8 of his 10 grand at this stage.

Living document doesn't necessarilyu mean changed at a fecking whim document.

The space bar is hard to press .

I might g3e3t some signatures to get Rob to resign for the ironing value though. Rob.

I'm quoting this so he can't delete it

Time Magazine

You all BETRAY me! BETRAY ME!

You will bge the first against the wall I tell ye! Just you ****ing wait until my namesake is [strikethrough]king[/strikethrough] "taoiseach".

King.Penguin

thanks for clearing that up osd.

gg drunk ibid (seen in the flesh today)

europerson

Perhaps I ought to have hung around to make sure Ibid was all right on Friday!