Txt generation - the end of civilisation?

mike65

This from the indo

The linky (only works for registered) http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=50&si=1818558&issue_id=15547

EXPERTISE in text messaging and email would appear to have affected spelling and punctuation.

The State Examinations Commission says the frequency of errors of grammar and punctuation, even among higher level students taking the Junior Cert exam, is a matter of concern.

"The emergence of the mobile phone and the rise of text messaging as a popular means of communication would appear to have impacted on standards of writing as evidenced in the responses of candidates," says the 2006 Chief Examiner's report for English.

It warns that text messaging with its use of phonetic spelling and little or no punctuation, seems to pose a threat to traditional conventions in writing.

The report says that if candidates are to achieve their potential in higher level English, they will need to have a grasp of the fundamentals of grammar, spelling, punctuation and syntax.

In sections such as 'Functional Writing', candidates are expected to compose and express their ideas in a style or genre appropriate to their purpose. Good layout, sentence structure and paragraphing are all functions of this purpose.

The report gives lots of examples of answers where candidates received top marks and many where they were penalised for poor answers, spelling, punctuation and lack of clarity.

It recommends that students should listen to language in as many and different ways as they can. They should listen to more than one radio station to hear the variety of ways in which people speak, and how the manner of speaking changes as different subjects are presented.

Contexts

They should speak the language in different ways and search out contexts in which they have to speak to people formally as well as informally.

"Take time to converse. Observe the different ways people speak and try to understand why they do so. Get involved in activities such as public speaking, debating or drama as a means of widening your spoken expression."

It also recommends that they read, widely, enjoyably and often. "Read a daily paper - free, if you call into your local library. Read magazines, books and instruction sheets that come with appliances and gadgets. Savour the styles of different writers.

"Take particular care with spelling and punctuation. English written in your examination answer book will be more complex and varies more than that used for texting on your mobile phone. Good spelling and well-used punctuation add clarity and precision to your writing," adds the report.

Some on the examples read out of radio this morning are just scary, forget rising seas and storms destroying our economy its going to be the bloody predictive text feature thats turn us into a third world country.

Mike.

Pepe LeFrits

Humanity is stupidering!

Crucifix

At least we have places like boards that (largely) don't tolerate text speak.

Mossy Monk

Those who use text speak on exams are too stupid to pass anyway. Text speak is sorting out the good from the bad for the future.

phantom_lord

This generation depresses me.

This is off the bebo profile page of someone I know.

Cnt w8 2 go 2 salou clas im gna bake meself nd get loked dat rite jane i chink so!!ha!! x x x x x and ciara woo hoo luvs yas lots x x x x

*☆*mUsIc ღ¤.·´¨`»...
rave + RnB. dj rankin deadly!!! (", )xxxx kooks dr class!!!! anythin dat gets me ass shakin and dat sets me wired !!! x x x x

ღ¤.·´¨`»..FiLmS...«´¨`·.¤ღ
WHITE CHICKS!! its a BF(deadly)!!! honey luv it... tommy tiernan nd brendan o carroll class fukin legends dey are!!!! The NOTEBOOK deadly nd me nd jane watched it 3 times in d last 4 days nd trisha did once loser!!ha!! xxxxxxxx

******Sports****** its al truexx
i dnt 2 sports if shoppin is one wel den im a pro!!!! DANCING in d nite clubs wit d girls wel tryin 2 dance...(", ) x x x x

Scared Of
dyin nd spider nd rats der jus yuck!!!! heights der d worst . . . x x x x x x x

***happiest wen!!!!***
with me mates all d girlies in clogher!!! der jus pure class!! wer goin mars girls!!ha!!! up d alley ye fags ye!!ha!!! nd havin d crac wit jane me best mate!!! nd blue after shock dat me, jane nd trisha (eh setruce neva agen)!!!luv it!!! out in earth prue twisted!!! deadly x x x x on d dance floor wit all d girls !!!! SLEEPING i luv my bed!!! x x x x

hates!!!
posh spas dey need 2 get der head removed 4rm der ass!!!! ppl who luv dem selves nd tink der beta dan evry1 else..... nd spiders.. x x x

nesf

The Irish Times Article: http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/frontpage/2007/0425/1177280209792.html


Short version: People are in general idiots. Children are no exception to this rule.

nesf

Oh and Mike, when quoting articles here could you link to the original in future please.

Binomate

cm on evry1 spells wrds shrtr in txts coz nobdy hs tym 2 typ ful wrds. it has hd no effct on my eng.

county

phantom_lord,that makes my head hurt, plus i have not got a clue what is says

tuxy

mike65 wrote:

forget rising seas and storms destroying our economy its going to be the bloody predictive text feature thats turn us into a third world country.

Mike.

I don't understand what you mean.T9 predictive text forces people to spell things correctly. It's the people that don't use predictive text that spell things phonetically.

flogen

Yes. Mobile phones are to blame, not teachers or parents. Of course.

Maybe we should tax all mobile phone handsets and operators to help pay for the Irish education system... sure it's their fault that people aren't learning, isn't it?

phantom_lord

The T9 dictionary actually improved my punctuation!

cornbb

Its horrible Text speak makes people look so goddamned stupid. My mom teaches honours JC english, it appears the word you is rapidly disappearing in favour of the letter u. And this is HONOURS english! :eek:

cornbb

phantom_lord wrote:

This generation depresses me.

This is off the bebo profile page of someone I know.

What age is this person, out of interest?

brianthebard

It would help if they continued to work on spelling, punctuation and grammar at least until the Junior cert. I see people in final year English in fucking university make mistakes all the time!

mike65

I did'nt know learning the boring building blocks of language is now passé in school. I feel my age when I rub up against this sort of thing.

Mike.

phantom_lord

18/19 I think. That type of, I don't even know what to call it tbh, "writing" seems very prevalent in the <18 age group.

Doodee

RECLAIM THE INTERNET!!! FIGHT BACK!

thelordofcheese

tuxy wrote:

I don't understand what you mean.T9 predictive text forces people to spell things correctly. It's the people that don't use predictive text that spell things phonetically.

predictive text forces people to spell things correctly?
sorry, what?

Isn't the point of predictive text that you just have to stab in the general direction of how the world is spelt, and it'll sort it out for you?

Besides, i'm fairly certain that most people use predictive text, then coach it to include things like "u" "wat" and other such muck.

Doodee

thelordofcheese wrote:

predictive text forces people to spell things correctly?
sorry, what?

Isn't the point of predictive text that you just have to stab in the general direction of how the world is spelt, and it'll sort it out for you?

Besides, i'm fairly certain that most people use predictive text, then coach it to include things like "u" "wat" and other such muck.

correct!

I dont use predictive Text and am forced to spell everything correctly, however, the people i know who use predictive often use txt spk lk dis lol

So Glad

Yeah, I don't blame phones to be honest, I blame people who are too lazy to use proper spelling, grammar and syntax when they text/use MSN/Bebo.

A mate of mine is seriously terrible at spelling/typing and he doesn't care, he'll talk to you on MSN like he seriously just mashes the keyboard, so frustrating, it's not that I'm shallow & pedantic, it's just that when it comes to having to actually use the English language, he'll be stumped, he'll forget how the words are actually spelled and used.

lol dats al i wanted 2 say i fink bords iz teh best on da net an any1 who tinks oter wies is gay!!!1!

k tnx bai

phantom_lord

Doodee wrote:

correct!

I dont use predictive Text and am forced to spell everything correctly, however, the people i know who use predictive often use txt spk lk dis lol

Why not use the dictionary to spell everything correctly, it's far quicker. I stopped using "txt spk" when I got a phone with predictive text.

scojones

It's shocking isn't it? I'm actually fairly concerned about this and have been for quite some time now. If someone sends me a text message written in txt speak, I will not read it.

Sure, that is me being pedantic but I actually find it hard to read txt speak. I can't understand why people chose to write in txt speak, as opposed to writing normally. It's alot easier to write 'properly', for me anyway.

thefinalstage

I don't even know how to text speak the concept boggles my mind

seamus

I reckon it's a temporary blip to be honest. This wonderful acceleration of information availability will increase the amount of reading that people do, and devices will become more useful for textual representation.

I can remember when I first got a mobile I used all that kind of crap. Then I realised that once I got a little faster, the difference between "you" and "u" was minimal. Then T9 came along, and I didn't need to try and think of intelligent abbreviations of short words.

I think it's still generally considered that people who use textspeak on mobiles are idiots. People who use textspeak on on the internet, even more so. I remember having an argument with someone about them typing "how" as "hw". They argued that it was faster to type. I argued that the extra time taken to type an "o" was miniscule compared to the time you lose attempting to re-read what you wrote (or someone else trying to understand you).

Once of course, you get into the business world, then you're going to crash and burn and look like a complete moron, if you attempt to use textspeak in any correspondence.

Doodee

I've often found that predictive doesn't force you to learn from your mistakes.
Now thats me personally. Can't speak for others.

Raskolnikov

thelordofcheese wrote:

predictive text forces people to spell things correctly?
sorry, what?

Isn't the point of predictive text that you just have to stab in the general direction of how the world is spelt, and it'll sort it out for you?

Besides, i'm fairly certain that most people use predictive text, then coach it to include things like "u" "wat" and other such muck.

I find that predictive text actually improves my spelling. For example, until I started using predictive text; I wrote disappointing as "disapointing". The predictive texting wouldn't allow my misspelling so I was forced to use the correct form.

In fairness though, I know plenty of people who leave "txt spk" to text messages, simply because they're unable to navigate a phone keypad.

Catari Jaguar

Says the users on boards who also use tbh, qft, lol, rofl, pwn, n00b etc and how it's cool to say liek and teh.

Either all stop shortening and making up computer slang etc and 1337 speak or leave text speak alone. They're just as bad as each other.

Mossy Monk

Predictive text is what I would use. It spells the words correctly. Much better than the encrypted crap that is text speak. Mobile phone users are lost forever but I really don't understand how people using a full keyboard or a pen and paper choose to use text speak instead of using the proper words. The mind boggles when trying to think of a valid reason for it.

So Glad

But I wonder if a new breed of words will spawn out of this. Some of my mates (only the ones that use "txt speak") don't know the basic functions of apostrophes. They don't understand that "your" isn't "you are" and "doesnt" is not a word without the apostrophe, so people who are doing their exams soon should really stop doing "txt speak" and make a conscious effort to learn how to use the English language (weird saying that).

Also, learning how to use apostrophes is fun! Because you can make up words that are actually proper words. For example, d'internet (the internet), d'coustic (the acoustic guitar), 'scraic (what is the craic?), 'til (until) and so on so fourth.

Love using them.

tuxy

Doodee wrote:

correct!

I dont use predictive Text and am forced to spell everything correctly, however, the people i know who use predictive often use txt spk lk dis lol

You must have some weird version of t9 on your phone. Because on any phone I have owned predictive text won't recognise "lk" or "dis" as words so I can't input it with out turning off predictive text.

seamus

Most new phones have some type of "learning" feature whereby the phone remembers words that you've spelled manually. Some phones need to specify "remeber this in the dictionary", whereas other phones (Mine for example), do this passively and just try to remember every non-broken sequence of characters you've ever input.

nesf

tuxy wrote:

You must have some weird version of t9 on your phone. Because on any phone I have owned predictive text won't recognise "lk" or "dis" as words so I can't input it with out turning off predictive text.

You can (depending on the phone) use an insert word command or similar and the phone will remember that word from then on. Very handy for people's names, pub names, places or train the phone to recognise two languages (i.e. Irish/English or whatever) etc but you can also use it to "train" the phone to predict text speak.

_feedback_

So Glad wrote:

But I wonder if a new breed of words will spawn out of this. Some of my mates (only the ones that use "txt speak") don't know the basic functions of apostrophes. They don't understand that "your" isn't "you are" and "doesnt" is not a word without the apostrophe, so people who are doing their exams soon should really stop doing "txt speak" and make a conscious effort to learn how to use the English language (weird saying that).

That's very very true ... I genuinely think it'll be difficult for these kids coming in to the real world. Say for instance somebody who has been using 'txt spk' for 5/6 years in school , even starting in college will be difficult trying to get a grip of spelling and grammar. Obviously long before this there were people that weren't great with it, but for these kids it'll be just a way of life! I really think it'll stand against them in later years.

Lil Kitten wrote:

Says the users on boards who also use tbh, qft, lol, rofl, pwn, n00b etc and how it's cool to say liek and teh.

Very True

shane86

I cant understand how txtspeek took off. It requires alot more effort than predictive ffs.

Only use it myself if i want to shorten a message and Im low on credit (well, generally, Ill type "wat" instead of "what" etc but nothing that isnt in predictive generally)

thelordofcheese

Well, it dates back to when there was no predictive text features on phones, and no way to chain text messages together. So people got inventive to squeeze as much as they could into the 160 characters available.

Then at some point it became cool, and spread to other mediums where space limits didn't apply, and thats the horrid beast we know today.

Bloody punk kids.....

Mushy

Find it quite funny that most people here are saying how they hate "txt" speak, when spelling text as txt, is text speak...if ya understand what I'm trying to say?

Anyway, I cant understand text speak for the most part. My head does actually begin to hurt when I see too much of it. Last time I was on MSN, my mate was writing like that, so I started giving him online grammer lessons:p. He got very annoyed...and all I was trying to do was understand what the hell he was saying. I'm of the age of where I'm supposed to be all up-to-date with this text-speak madness, and people cant fathom the idea that I dont understand it. I'm sure I'm not the only one either! The furthest I'd ever go with "txt" speak is typing in wat for what, or u for you, but thats not often. The worst one I find is when people put in n for and. My poor head cant grasp this one letter system operating as lots of words anymore

brianthebard

thelordofcheese wrote:

Well, it dates back to when there was no predictive text features on phones, and no way to chain text messages together. So people got inventive to squeeze as much as they could into the 160 characters available.

That was the main point of it all right wasn't it? All the vowels got it in the neck first and then it became as if minimalism had been applied to the English language.

Tar.Aldarion

When most friends text me I cringe.

nesf

Lil Kitten wrote:

Says the users on boards who also use tbh, qft, lol, rofl, pwn, n00b etc and how it's cool to say liek and teh.

Either all stop shortening and making up computer slang etc and 1337 speak or leave text speak alone. They're just as bad as each other.

There's a distinction I think between people who use acronyms and abbreviations in media that they are common and those for whom they begin to replace the words they use in general. I've no issue with groups of consenting adults/children who use txt spk or whatever while texting each other. It's when they start to put entire posts on a message board or entire emails into that format that I dislike it. Same as many people on message boards or IRC have bad habits like using tbh, imho etc (i.e. people like me) but don't use them in formal documents or formal communication.

Then, I only expect proper English in formal stuff not casual communication.

I can't do txt speak. I find it incredibly hard to even come close to writing in it. Though it is extremely scary a thought that people actually use this in state exams.

Word to all Leaving Cert Students:
Since your exam is coming up soon; do yourself a favour and do not use txt-speak for the next month or so. It will get you out of that thinking. For anyone younger than that, yer buggered (odd.. mozilla spell check doesn't understand favour but recognises buggered.. so it is an actual word, awesome!)

Bebo is the worst for doing txt speak. I hate people who use it and then use that font, the fancy one, which makes it even harder to read as it is.

Is it true that 'lol' is now a recognised anagram in the Oxford English Dictionary?

seamus

Deleted User wrote:

(odd.. mozilla spell check doesn't understand favour but recognises buggered.. so it is an actual word, awesome!)

The default spell check dictionary in Firefox is en-US. The Americans spell it "favor".

You can change the dictionary by typing "about:config" in the address bar and hitting return.

Filter for spellchecker.dictionary and double-click on it to change it. Change it to "en-GB" and hey presto!

cson

Deleted User wrote:

I can't do txt speak. I find it incredibly hard to even come close to writing in it. Though it is extremely scary a thought that people actually use this in state exams.

Word to all Leaving Cert Students:
Since your exam is coming up soon; do yourself a favour and do not use txt-speak for the next month or so. It will get you out of that thinking. For anyone younger than that, yer buggered (odd.. mozilla spell check doesn't understand favour but recognises buggered.. so it is an actual word, awesome!)

Bebo is the worst for doing txt speak. I hate people who use it and then use that font, the fancy one, which makes it even harder to read as it is.

Is it true that 'lol' is now a recognised anagram in the Oxford English Dictionary?

Im doing the leaving cert this year and all i'll say is thank god for boards. I like that poor grammar/text speak is frowned upon here. As you've said boneyarsebogman, it'll improve your writing and syntax etc if you write correctly on msn etc.

As for bebo..... I hate for anyone to take that as a reflection of the young in Ireland but unfortunately.....

Terry

scojones wrote:

It's shocking isn't it? I'm actually fairly concerned about this and have been for quite some time now. If someone sends me a text message written in txt speak, I will not read it.

Sure, that is me being pedantic but I actually find it hard to read txt speak. I can't understand why people chose to write in txt speak, as opposed to writing normally. It's alot easier to write 'properly', for me anyway.

I'm the same.
I will often reply to a txt spk message with a note saying something along the lines of 'please use proper English if you want me to reply'.
If the ****ers are too lazy to type in a few vowels, then they don't deserve a proper reply from me.

As for the use of l337 speak here, I find that most of it is tongue in cheek.

Onto bebo.
I recently asked my 14 year old cousin why he uses txt spk when he has a full qwerty keyboard in front of him. He told me that it was cool to use it.
You can't really argue logically with a 14 year old whose mother also butchers text messages.

Then I had something else to add, but I can't remember what it was.
To the pub, batman.

The Queen

I was looking at an essay that my friends sister had written for english. She's in honours, doing the inter cert this year and her essay had "u" for "you", "n" for "and", and god awful spelling. She has no grasp on grammar. How she has managed to get this far in honours is beyond me... It's so annoying to read. Thankfully, the people I text most hate it too!

Alter-Ego

I use txt spk in text messages when i'm running short on space and i'd rather not pay for 2 messages when i'll probably only go a few letters over limit in the first message.

When I see people using it online or written down it just makes them seem stupid or chavish. Theres also the over use of the "!", i.e. k thx bye!!!!!11!1

I hear lots of people say "i'll txt you on bebo later", Says it all really.

Pepe LeFrits

phantom_lord wrote:

This generation depresses me.

Cnt w8 2 go 2 salou clas im gna bake meself nd get loked dat rite jane i chink so!!ha!! x x x x x and ciara woo hoo luvs yas lots x x x x

*☆*mUsIc ღ€.·´¨`»...
rave + RnB. dj rankin deadly!!! (", )xxxx kooks dr class!!!! anythin dat gets me ass shakin and dat sets me wired !!! x x x x

ღ€.·´¨`»..FiLmS...«´¨`·.€ღ
WHITE CHICKS!! its a BF(deadly)!!! honey luv it... tommy tiernan nd brendan o carroll class fukin legends dey are!!!! The NOTEBOOK deadly nd me nd jane watched it 3 times in d last 4 days nd trisha did once loser!!ha!! xxxxxxxx

******Sports****** its al truexx
i dnt 2 sports if shoppin is one wel den im a pro!!!! DANCING in d nite clubs wit d girls wel tryin 2 dance...(", ) x x x x

Scared Of
dyin nd spider nd rats der jus yuck!!!! heights der d worst . . . x x x x x x x

***happiest wen!!!!***
with me mates all d girlies in clogher!!! der jus pure class!! wer goin mars girls!!ha!!! up d alley ye fags ye!!ha!!! nd havin d crac wit jane me best mate!!! nd blue after shock dat me, jane nd trisha (eh setruce neva agen)!!!luv it!!! out in earth prue twisted!!! deadly x x x x on d dance floor wit all d girls !!!! SLEEPING i luv my bed!!! x x x x

hates!!!
posh spas dey need 2 get der head removed 4rm der ass!!!! ppl who luv dem selves nd tink der beta dan evry1 else..... nd spiders.. x x x

This is off the bebo profile page of someone I know.

Braindead.

tuxy

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Braindead.

oh no, you come under this on her message

"hates!!!
posh spas dey need 2 get der head removed 4rm der ass!!!! ppl who luv dem selves nd tink der beta dan evry1 else..... nd spiders.. x x x"

Pepe LeFrits

tuxy wrote:

oh no, you come under this on her message

"hates!!!
posh spas dey need 2 get der head removed 4rm der ass!!!! ppl who luv dem selves nd tink der beta dan evry1 else..... nd spiders.. x x x"

Are you suggesting I'm a spider?

Sir, I challenge you to fisticuffs!

Mushy

tuxy wrote:

4rm

That is exactly one I dont get. Since when does four shorten down to an 'f'? If I was to read that phonetically, I'd sound like an idiot. To me, thats four-rem, which most certainly isnt 'from'

badgerbadger

i have no problem with "txt speak" but what i do have a problem with is people using "abreviations" that are the length as the word it takes the same amount of button pressing to write ov as it does to write of

i know i have bad grammar and i don't care i think language is always evolving
so future generations might not use grammar