We need cyclist education

daymobrew

I normally cycle into work after 9am (having done an hour or so work at home). This week I've had to be in for 9am. While we all know about driver behavior, I must admit that the quality of cyclists in the city is brutal! Red lights are frequently broken, turns/merges into traffic when cars are near (which must be freaky for the motorist) and footpaths mounted without concern for pedestrians (it's quite frightening when a cyclist cycles past at speed).

For the regular commuting cyclist, I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir - you all see it daily. It's quite depressing - I feel that my law abiding behaviour and courtesy is undermined by the actions of others. Unlike scumbags in a certain area, where it's often a minority causing all the trouble, I really feel that bad cyclists are not in the minority.

Back to the thread title, I wonder would safety training for children improve their adult behaviour and encourage more commuting cycling as adults.

End of rant.

el tel

I agree with everything you say about the awful riding that goes on in, certainly in Dublin. To many commuters and courriers alike, red lights appear to be meaningless, stopping at junctions is rarely done (especially while making left turns) and pavements are regarded as the highway. So much so that it has come to the point that I would barely feel any sympathy for any cyclist injured as a result of doing any of the above.

However I don't think training for children will be effective in stopping this unfortunately. It seems to me that those doing it are mature adults who know what they are doing and merely take measured chances. Ironically they are often kitted out in full safety gear-helmets, fluo reflective jackets etc.
In my opinion, the best approach would be to fine and prosecute cyclists who violate the rules of the road. Sadly again, it would seem that this would be beyond the scope and ability of the police who are barely capable of enforcing the same rules against motorists.

Raam

on the cycle path along Clontarf I see plenty of cyclists/pedestrians turning onto it without even bothering to check if someone is coming. It's worrying really. Some unfortunate soul might end up being knocked down by some clown who turns on without looking. One day I saw a fella cycle into a pole that is set in the path where it stops briefly for a car park. He was looking everywhere apart from where he was actually going.

There's some other feller who cycles along with his hands behind his back, with his earphones in, weaving all over the path. I'm expecting a Darwin award for him sometime soon

P

Itsfixed

Hmm. Agree with sentiments in the main but I think many 'thinking' cyclists are caught between a strict adherence to the rules of the road as it pertains to cyclsts, and frustration at how certain parts of the road system are geared very much towards accomodating cars and pedestrians, but not cyclists.

I'm all for a more selective approach to the Highway code as it pertains to cyclists, such as that expoused in this article (albeit by a UK journalist).

For instance, if you come to a straightforward red light, with no intersection, just there for pedestrians, and there are no pedestrians waiting, I would cycle through. If there are pedestrians waiting to cross, of course i would stop.

Things like that.

Membrane

daymobrew wrote:

I must admit that the quality of cyclists in the city is brutal! Red lights are frequently broken, turns/merges into traffic when cars are near (which must be freaky for the motorist) and footpaths mounted without concern for pedestrians (it's quite frightening when a cyclist cycles past at speed).

I wouldn't fully agree with your classification of what constitutes "bad behaviour". For example I frequently ignore red lights. Typical examples are going straight ahead at a T-junction, or turning left at a T-junction. As long as care is taken not to hinder or endanger other traffic and you give way to any pedestrians crossing, I reject the notion that doing so is dangerous. In the Netherlands signs typically exempt cyclists from having to obey traffic lights for similar situations. If it is considered safe there, why suddenly would it be dangerous here?

There is an argument to say that it pisses off other road users (typicaly cagers) and thereby causes resentment towards cyclists, but that's an issue to be resolved by creating more sensible rules for cyclists.

I doubt if cycling safety training for kids would have a noticable impact on their behaviour as adults.

Promoting bicycle commuting requires many things, some examples:

More sensible planning to bring down work - home travelling distances
Vastly reducing the risk of bicycle theft
Work facilities such as secure and dry bicycle parking, changing rooms with lockers, showers
Better quality road facilities
More sensible road rules for cyclists
More protection for cyclist in law (e.g. barring Bull-bars)

youcancallmeal

To be honest after spending the last 7 years cycling the same route in and out of Dublin City I couldnt care less any more and will break red lights, cycle on footpaths and dart in and out of traffic as I see fit. I wasn't always this cynical but I don't believe anything said here will change the fact that some motorists are simply poor drivers with no awareness of other road users and some pedestrians will step out onto a road expecting everything to stop for them. I've seen so much ignorance and pure lack of consideration for mine and other peoples safety over the years that I look after number one now and treat Irish roads exactly like what they are, a competition to get from A to B in as fast amount as time as possible.

Trampas

Has anyone else notice the increase of mopeds breaking red lights like cyclist.

Raam

youcancallme>al wrote:

I've seen so much ignorance and pure lack of consideration for mine and other peoples safety over the years that I look after number one now and treat Irish roads exactly like what they are, a competition to get from A to B in as fast amount as time as possible.

perhaps some of these poor drivers and pedestrians have adopted a similar stance to yours. Just a thought.

I prefer to follow the rules as best I can. That way I am behaving in an expected fashion and other road users can better anticipate what I am going to do. Unfortunately, there will always be incidents, but I feel that by following the rules, I am reducing the likelihood of an incident occurring.

P

markpb

Itsfixed wrote:

I'm all for a more selective approach to the Highway code as it pertains to cyclists, such as that expoused in this article (albeit by a UK journalist).

For instance, if you come to a straightforward red light, with no intersection, just there for pedestrians, and there are no pedestrians waiting, I would cycle through. If there are pedestrians waiting to cross, of course i would stop.

If this could be done, it would be the perfect solution!

It's worth pointing out that in parts of America, drivers are free to pass red lights at pedestrian crossings once the pedestrians have finished crossing that lane. They're also allowed to turn right on red if it's safe to do so. As long as people use their heads it work's very well. Pedestrian lights can go green more often and there's less time spent waiting at a pedestrian crossing with no-one crossing.

The problem at the moment seems to be that everyone assumes drivers are rude and rubbish so the system is designed to accomodate that. Long amber periods, dead time between red and greeen, lights to allow traffic to merge where courtesy would be more effecient.

Raam

Trampas wrote:

Has anyone else notice the increase of mopeds breaking red lights like cyclist.

Not a moped, but, this morning I saw a car stop at a red light on a main road where there is a T junction. I was stopped along side them. The driver then decided to drive through the junction just as the cars from the adjoining road on the left were turning onto the main road (they had the lights). Nobody even bothered to beep the driver

el tel

King Raam wrote:

Nobody even bothered to beep the driver

I've noticed that loads, whereby everyone seems indifferent about what anyone else is doing regardless how insane it is. Rarely in Dublin, or at least in the part of town where I live, do I see anyone lose their heads over near misses as a result of drivers, riders or pedestrians acting like gimps. Maybe this stoical attitude helps people keep their cool but afforementioned behaviour has become the acceptable norm as a result.

Ghost Rider

I agree. While many cyclists take foolish risks or are simply inconsiderate to others, I don't think the solution is for all cyclists to adhere slavishly to the rules of the road. It's all too obvious that many elements of traffic management (such as traffic lights and one-way-streets) are there to address problems caused purely by motorists. Thus, it behoves everyone, particularly law enforcement agencies, to take a broad-minded, pragmatic view when it comes to cyclists. (I firmly believe the law should be enforced quite literally when it comes to motorists, however. That's not because I hate motorists, it's because I think the risks they pose to themselves and others are so great that a strict code of behaviour is essential.)

That's not to say The Rules Of The Road should be ignored by cyclists; it's merely to suggest cyclists think of it less as a set of orders and more as a guide to safe and considerate cycling - less as law, more as protocol.

Every cyclist knows there are times when turning left on a red light is perfectly safe and there are times when it is hazardous, either to the cyclist himself or to pedestrians attempting to cross. As in all things, judgement is central.

Itsfixed wrote:

Hmm. Agree with sentiments in the main but I think many 'thinking' cyclists are caught between a strict adherence to the rules of the road as it pertains to cyclsts, and frustration at how certain parts of the road system are geared very much towards accomodating cars and pedestrians, but not cyclists.

I'm all for a more selective approach to the Highway code as it pertains to cyclists, such as that expoused in this article (albeit by a UK journalist).

For instance, if you come to a straightforward red light, with no intersection, just there for pedestrians, and there are no pedestrians waiting, I would cycle through. If there are pedestrians waiting to cross, of course i would stop.

Things like that.

Cabaal

King Raam wrote:

There's some other feller who cycles along with his hands behind his back, with his earphones in, weaving all over the path. I'm expecting a Darwin award for him sometime soon

P

No harm to be honest, gives people a bad name doing that type of thing

Cabaal

I try to follow the rules best as I can, I tend not to cycle on footpaths were ever possiabl;e, exceptions to this are...slow/weavy cyclists in front of me that make it dangerous to pass them out, if I come across one of these I might jump onto a path to overtake and then back onto the road
or
cars that drive too close to the side of the road making it next ti impossiable to get by.

Within the last week I've had two run-ins with cars, one nearly knocking me off my bike as it pulled out and overtook a car on the inside without bothering to look, I shouted after him with abuse and then he sped up and stopped dead along side me, this of course was extremely dangerous to cars behind him.

Also when I come upto the main roundabout on my route to work I always make sure to sit myself in the middle of the lane going onto the roundabout so cars have a less chance of not seeing me or hitting me, except I've twice gotten the same van driver who stops in the lane next to me as far out as he can so I can't see ongoing traffic then he pulls out infront into my name and takes off like a shot.....bloody muppet, anybody else has the sense to stay behind me.

youcancallmeal

Cabaal wrote:

Within the last week I've had two run-ins with cars, one nearly knocking me off my bike as it pulled out and overtook a car on the inside without bothering to look, I shouted after him with abuse and then he sped up and stopped dead along side me, this of course was extremely dangerous to cars behind him.

Also when I come upto the main roundabout on my route to work I always make sure to sit myself in the middle of the lane going onto the roundabout so cars have a less chance of not seeing me or hitting me, except I've twice gotten the same van driver who stops in the lane next to me as far out as he can so I can't see ongoing traffic then he pulls out infront into my name and takes off like a shot.....bloody muppet, anybody else has the sense to stay behind me.

Imagine this kind of thing happening to you at least once a day, would it not really dishearten you?

Ghost Rider

Dishearten and/or kill...

youcancallme>al wrote:

Imagine this kind of thing happening to you at least once a day, would it not really dishearten you?

Trojan

We need road-user education about bikes and their place and rights within the road system.

I admit I've become fairly selfish in the way that I cycle now, very defensively. I obey red lights about 80% of the time (normally because I need the rest!).

I think the repeated lack of respect from motorists to a cyclist like me, trying to do the right thing has turned me into a road warrior. I've had cars cut me off hundreds of times, nearly been doored many times because I was being pushed into the parked lane by traffic, had cars over take me on the right when I was in the middle of actually turning right from the centre of the lane (that was scary). So I try do my best to not be a bitter and selfish cyclist, but sometimes, well f#ck it

tywy

Everywhere but Ireland seem to have the right idea about cyclists. Instead of trying to change their actions, they accomodate them. One example in Dublin city is the cycle lane around stephen's green. There should be a designated cycle path through the park with sufficient warnings for pedestrians. In Montreal there was a cycle path through the city that took the shortest distance from A to B. It was on the road sometimes and not at other times. Same in Germany.

People should be supporting cyclists. Could you imagine if every cyclist decided on Monday that instead of cycling to work/college/school or whatever that they'd drive, the traffic would be crap. I think the government need to do something about educating drivers about cyclists, checking the left wing mirror for example, and need to make cycling more convenient and safe. I know a lot of people in college aren't "allowed" cycle into college because their parents see it as very dangerous. So what do those people do? Hop in their car and drive.

daymobrew

youcancallme>al wrote:

Imagine this kind of thing happening to you at least once a day, would it not really dishearten you?

It is of course very annoying and somewhat disheartening. I would probably never stop cycling because I love it so much, and the alternative modes of transport are not as attractive.

Another thing to remember is TrafficWatch 1890-205-805. I ring them a lot. Some of the operators recognise my name
I've said before that followup by Gardai is inconsistent but some of the incidents are acted on. Even a caution might make drivers think.

King Raam wrote:

Nobody even bothered to beep the driver

el tel wrote:

Maybe this stoical attitude helps people keep their cool but afforementioned behaviour has become the acceptable norm as a result.

el tel is probably right. I'm quite the opposite when I drive. I'm like a NY cabbie.

Membrane wrote:

For example I frequently ignore red lights. Typical examples are going straight ahead at a T-junction, or turning left at a T-junction.

While I understand your point of view, I feel that any violations of the law, further annoys other road users and erodes any respect law abiding cyclists have earned. Though, like other posters here who have have become cynical over the years, I'm not sure I can credit the other users with enough IQ to notice the good behaviour.

Raam

youcancallme>al wrote:

Imagine this kind of thing happening to you at least once a day, would it not really dishearten you?

It really is so annoying and does make you despair. Turning right at big junctions or on a roundabout can be a nightmare

Raam

daymobrew wrote:

Though, like other posters here who have have become cynical over the years, I'm not sure I can credit the other users with enough IQ to notice the good behaviour.

I think most people would tend not to notice the cyclist who adheres to the rules. It is always the more annoying/bizarre behavior that catches your eye and sticks with you. That said I swear that some people look at me funny when I don't go through red lights. It's almost as if I am expected to break it.

Itsfixed

King Raam wrote:

I think most people would tend not to notice the cyclist who adheres to the rules. It is always the more annoying/bizarre behavior that catches your eye and sticks with you. That said I swear that some people look at me funny when I don't go through red lights. It's almost as if I am expected to break it.

Nice to know that I'm not the only one who thinks this. On those days when I'm in no hurry and choose to stop at red lights that i usually ignore, while others sail past, i feel almost saintly.....

DirkVoodoo

I agree with youcancallme>al.

When you get overtaken pretty wrecklessly by drivers trying to squeeze past you on a regular basis, cars parking on cycle lanes because they don't want to obstruct buses but have no regard for cyclists and pedestrians who stroll across cycle lanes without looking, its easy to develop a cynical "me against the world" attitude.

However, we may gain more respect as a collective group by adhering to the law and letting motorists know we are a responsible bunch. I admit to breaking red lights at pedestrian crossings having checked the way is clear.

It is also the governments responsibility to protect cyclists with better quality cycle lanes (im sorry, but some of them are atrocious and in dire need of repair) and I believe that educating cyclists about respecting traffic laws will save far more people than helmets.

markpb

Trojan wrote:

I admit I've become fairly selfish in the way that I cycle now, very defensively. I obey red lights about 80% of the time (normally because I need the rest!).

I've been (commute) cycling for about two years and I'm the same. I don't think it's selfish though, it's safe. Things like moving to the middle of the lane to stop unsafe over-taking or not using the cycle lane when it's not safe to do so are just common sense.

daymobrew wrote:

I ring them a lot. Some of the operators recognise my name

You've got to admit, Daymobrew is a pretty unique name

Civilian_Target

In the main, I agree with the sentiments here that there a lot of rule breaking cyclists but I will say this for free: I have no time for a cyclist who breaks any light. Even the pedestrian ones.

I've seen pedestrians be hit by cyclists and I've seen cyclists hit other cyclists, and it's just retarded. Every time its happened there's been a cyclist in the wrong. (I've actually never seen a car hit a cyclist except for the time when a car hit me.) You're not in that much of a hurry, so why not just keep to the rules of the road, unless doing so threatens your personal safety? All the winding up is making you fitter anyway

When I see cyclists plough through the top of T junctions, through zebra crossings and pedestrian lights, I always hope they never get their comeupance. I can only imagine the shame in hitting some old lady on her green light.

One things for sure: I live in London and I sure as hell miss trafficwatch. Some of the bus drivers in particular over here are apalling - gives you an appreciation of how great Dublin Bus drivers really are!

[EDIT]Its worth saying, I take Trojan's approach on defensive cyclists - except I'd call it assertive cycling! I always hold road position so that there's at least a bike's-width between me and the kerb. I always clearly block the passage of cars at lights to ensure that I can take off safely and I often clearly assert myself at junctions by looking drivers turning onto my road who do not have right-of-way straight in the eye - a very effective technique. In short - I think for your own safety, its very important to be a decisive and assertive road user: take your position and stick to it.

Trojan

Yeah I cycle pretty assertively, but there's only so assertive you can be when you get some dipsh!t threatening you with 2 tonnes of metal because you took the lane and he thinks you should be in the gutter.

I generally stop at lights because I'm exhausted and need to catch breath, because I normally try to do 15-18mph in traffic to keep 'em happy and make it easier to keep my lane position. They generally respect fast moving bikes (and even if they don't we're too fast for them to do anything about it).

I normally cycle about 3-6 ft from gutter. In an on-road cycle lane I'm right on outside, I don't normally take off-road (on-pavement) cycle lanes for safety reasons. The exception is when I'm going uphill for a distance - I know I'll be moving significantly slower than traffic.

RuggieBear

A friend of mines stepfather was killed by a cyclist going the wrong way down a one way street (Pembroke street in Dublin)....got knocked to the ground, banged his head off the pavement and never woke up again.

Just coz it's a bike doesn't mean that not obeying the rules of the road will have no consequences for others

DadaKopf

RuggieBear wrote:

A friend of mines stepfather was killed by a cyclist going the wrong way down a one way street (Pembroke street in Dublin)....got knocked to the ground, banged his head off the pavement and never woke up again.

Just coz it's a bike doesn't mean that not obeying the rules of the road will have no consequences for others

Exactly. And I just found out a colleague of mine was killed cycling down Wolfe Tone Quay by a skip truck this week. She was extremely safety-conscious, and it just goes to show how cyclists are made more vulnerable by idiotic, stupid, impatient drivers.

I'm now frightened to cycle. No matter how well you know a route, you're vulnerable at every turn.

How many deaths will it take for something to be done?

Civilian_Target

I'm sorry to hear that Dada, but I'd have to tell you no safety concious cyclist would ever cycle down the quays - they're a complete death trap and several cyclists get killed on them every year. Don't let it put you off cycling, just let it stop you from ever cycling the quays on a bike.

It does illustrate the need for city cycle routes in Dublin, there's no reason why they shouldn't have installed one at the same time as the Luas, running parallel to it. Another opportunity missed...

ferdi

i would say, like civilian traget, that i am an assertive cyclist - i make sure i am safe. but i also do not break red lights and stay off the path unless absolutely needed (rare).

Stark

There are many situations when you're in the car and it looks like it would make perfect sense to go through a red light as there's nothing around. It's still illegal though and cycle groups would probably be the first ones to be in uproar over it.

Although I have seen cars ignoring red lights when turning left more and more these days. I once got beeped out of it while waiting to turn left at a red light because the **** in the BMW behind me wanted to go through. (It would have been safe but still illegal).

On a side note, I notice Labour promised to make cycling a priority issue today (http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/?jp=MHAUQLMHKFGB&rss=rss1). If they actually do plan on providing safe cycle routes through the city, they have my vote

Capt'n Midnight

Stark wrote:

On a side note, I notice Labour promised to make cycling a priority issue today (http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/?jp=MHAUQLMHKFGB&rss=rss1). If they actually do plan on providing safe cycle routes through the city, they have my vote

Let's not forget the Green Party too

snickerpuss

I was thinking about this thread when i read this report:

Women cyclists ‘risk death’ by obeying traffic lights

Women cyclists are far more likely to be killed by a lorry because, unlike men, they tend to obey red lights and wait at junctions in the driver’s blind spot, according to a study.

The report by Transport for London’s road safety unit was completed last July but has been kept secret. It suggests that some cyclists who break the law by jumping red lights may be safer and that cycle feeder lanes may make the problem worse.

The Times has obtained a copy of the study, which says that 86 per cent of the women cyclists killed in London between 1999 and 2004 collided with a lorry. By contrast, lorries were involved in 47 per cent of deaths of male cyclists.

The findings help to explain why the growing popularity of cycling by city commuters is resulting in frequent deaths of young women in similar circumstances. The death rate among women cyclists has increased since the report was completed, with two killed in collisions with lorries within 24 hours last month.

Amelia Zollner, 24, a Cambridge-educated scientist working at the Institute for Public Policy Research, was cycling to work in central London and had stopped at traffic lights in Russell Square next to a lorry. She was killed when the lorry pulled away after the lights changed.

Rosie Wright, 26, worked close by at the School of Oriental and African Studies, and spoke with friends about her distress on learning that a young woman had died. The next day she was killed by a lorry accelerating away from traffic lights.

The study states: “Women may be overrepresented in [collisions with goods vehicles] because they are less likely than men to disobey red lights.”

By jumping red lights, men are less likely to be caught in a lorry driver’s blind spot. Cyclists may wait at the lights just in front of a lorry, not realising that they are difficult to see.

In more than half the fatal crashes, the lorry was turning left. Cyclists may be deceived by a lorry swinging out to the right to give itself room to make a left turn.

The study states that cycle “feeder” lanes, which allow cyclists to overtake vehicles along the nearside kerb to get to the front of queues, may “exacerbate the problem”.

It also says that pedestrian guard railings may have contributed to three of the deaths because cyclists became trapped between the railings and the lorry, leaving them no escape route.

Peter Wright, the father of Rosie and a vehicle safety expert who heads the commission which regulates safety in international motorsport, criticised TfL for failing to publish the study. “Rosie was reasonably cautious, which seems to be the problem. It seems that you need to be aggressive and assertive to survive as a cyclist,” he said. “TfL’s attitude is unacceptable.

“It should stop withholding the study because we need an open public debate about the findings to seek ways of preventing more deaths. There is something wrong if the only way you can survive on a bike is to skip the lights.”

Adam Coffman, an official at the Cyclists’ Touring Club, said: “Women cyclists tend to ride more slowly and are less comfortable doing things that feel risky.

So, instead of positioning themselves out wide in the road where they can more easily see and be seen, they are more inclined to hug the kerb, a way of cycling that may feel safer but is in fact more risky.”

A TfL spokesman said the study had not been published because it was “produced solely to inform TfL policies”. He said that there was no direct evidence that women were more at risk because they obeyed red lights.

TfL last month mounted a poster campaign to inform lorry drivers and cyclists of the dangers of collisions at junctions.

What say ye?

cyclopath2001

snickerpuss wrote:

What say ye?

Taking a safe position on the road and making sure you're visible are key. But I'd also say that stronger, more experienced cyclists are more likely to be able to extricate themselves from a dangerous situations caused by wind, slipstream and dangerous overtaking by truck drivers. Experience too, will guide cyclists into avoiding dangerous scenarios. Male cyclists tend to be more experienced.

I've always deplored the ROTR advice to 'keep as close to the left as possible'. I think this exposes cyclists to doors, cars coming out of junctions and errant pedestrians. Hugging the kerb makes cyclists practically invisible to merging cars whose drivers are usually looking into the centre of the road.

daymobrew

Cyclists may wait at the lights just in front of a lorry, not realising that they are difficult to see.

In more than half the fatal crashes, the lorry was turning left. Cyclists may be deceived by a lorry swinging out to the right to give itself room to make a left turn.

The study states that cycle “feeder” lanes, which allow cyclists to overtake vehicles along the nearside kerb to get to the front of queues, may “exacerbate the problem”.

Because of experience, I know not to make the mistakes listed here. Which brings me back to my suggestion of cyclist education

Raam

cyclopath2001 wrote:

I've always deplored the ROTR advice to 'keep as close to the left as possible'. I think this exposes cyclists to doors, cars coming out of junctions and errant pedestrians. Hugging the kerb makes cyclists practically invisible to merging cars whose drivers are usually looking into the centre of the road.

Same here.
In my opinion "as close to the left as possible" is about 3 to 6 feet away from either the kerb or a parked car, whichever is closest to me. I've been beeped by drivers for being "in the middle of the road" when in fact I was in the middle of the lane because most of the left half of the lane was filled with a string of parked cars. If I'm doing 30kmph, I don't want to have to suddenly swerve to dodge a car door, so I'll stay well clear of them. It's much safer for me and for motorists because I won't have to suddenly swerve into their path. When I explained to one fella, that I don't want to be taken out by a car door, he never responded. He just drove off. He was also texting on his phone at the time, but I never thought to point it out to him. Ah well

DirkVoodoo

cyclopath2001 wrote:

Taking a safe position on the road and making sure you're visible are key. But I'd also say that stronger, more experienced cyclists are more likely to be able to extricate themselves from a dangerous situations caused by wind, slipstream and dangerous overtaking by truck drivers. Experience too, will guide cyclists into avoiding dangerous scenarios. Male cyclists tend to be more experienced.

I've always deplored the ROTR advice to 'keep as close to the left as possible'. I think this exposes cyclists to doors, cars coming out of junctions and errant pedestrians. Hugging the kerb makes cyclists practically invisible to merging cars whose drivers are usually looking into the centre of the road.

Exactly. I find that by keeping a good distance between yourself and the kerb, cars will not try and squeeze past you with oncoming traffic, instead waiting for a gap to properly overtake, much like they would any other obstacle. Out of necessity for the most part, the road where I live has been destroyed by constant building, heavy vehicles parked on roadsides, etc. so the area close to the kerb not only contains the usual drains, but some large and dangerous potholes which have to be avoided.

I tend to push out past the red light when waiting in traffic. Granted Im not driving in town, but at most junctions I try and sit well ahead of the traffic behind me to make sure they can see me. Tragic to know that so many of these accidents can be avoided by more driver and cyclist awareness over things like drink-driving and speeding.

Civilian_Target

Interesting what they say about guard railings at junctions - they're much more prevalent in England than in Ireland and they do leave you absolutely nowhere to go if things go wrong. On one occasion I've actually gone headlong into them to avoid a car that pulled out without looking! I think they're quite hazardous to cyclists and I notice any rececntly redeveloped street never has them.

As an experienced cyclists, I make few of mistakes listed above - I do cycle out a bit and I never stop or slow near heavy vehicles - I either stay well clear or make sure I have clearance to pass. It's the kind of not-necessarily-intuitive thing that cyclists ought to know....

Civilian_Target

Also - good point by cyclopath - I've never really thought of it much but you're right, a full left position leaves you very exposed to motorists joining your road....

tampopo

Civilian_Target wrote:

think they're quite hazardous to cyclists and I notice any rececntly redeveloped street never has them.

QUOTE]

Every recently redeveloped junction on Cork Street in Dublin has those railings. Dolphin's Barn Junction has been redeveloped in the last two years or so and is covered in them.

Cornmarket in the city centre near Christchurch was done about 10 years ago and is covered in them.

the junction at Crumlin Rd,Herberton Rd and Sundrive Rd has been redeveloped twice in the last five years and has those railings.

Off Rant! The S C Rd outside the Shell garage in Kilmainham road markings were changed from two lanes to one and a cycle lane (half way up the road). All cars ignore the road markings and squeeze two lanes of traffic to the edge of the kerb.it's a joke, and dangerous, besides being 100m from Kilmainham garda station. Cars at the new Hilton Hotel opposite IMMA/Royal Hospital constantly drive in the cycle lane. I agree with the poster who notes that if all the cyclists decided to feck it and drive from now on, the traffic would be worse, much worse. Drivers, cyclists are your friend. They reduce traffic. Give us some space. Please.

cyclopath2001

tampopo wrote:

Civilian_Target wrote:

think they're quite hazardous to cyclists and I notice any rececntly redeveloped street never has them.
QUOTE]
All cars ignore the road markings and squeeze two lanes of traffic to the edge of the kerb.i

I've noticed a practice by trucks & cars to drive with the left-hand wheels exactly on the continous white line marking the boundary of the cycle track. Over time, this has the effect of erasing the marking. There's many examples around town of obliterated cycle tracks where motorists can happily claim ignorance & drive in them.

The #1 key point in road safety advice, should be to always try and make eye contact with anyone, motorist, pedestrian other cyclist who might be about to conflict with you.

I recall a reprt that being blonde & attractive, might get you more road space than a hi-vis vest.

Capt'n Midnight

cyclopath2001 wrote:

tampopo wrote:

I recall a reprt that being blonde & attractive, might get you more road space than a hi-vis vest.

not even blonde - a wig would do.

hunnymonster

I've read that research and it seems pretty sound. Long blonde hair (helmetless) cyclists were involved in less accidents than cyclists with helmets. They also probed the theory that the helmeted cyclists felt more invincible but dismissed that based on a blind study of road users.


Here is another interesting one
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1695668.ece
The people involved in the research sound like they should be compitent but I can't help picking holes in it. Then again I should go and read the details rather than just the bits that made the paper.

robfitz

DadaKopf wrote:

Exactly. And I just found out a colleague of mine was killed cycling down Wolfe Tone Quay by a skip truck this week. She was extremely safety-conscious, and it just goes to show how cyclists are made more vulnerable by idiotic, stupid, impatient drivers.

I'm very sorry to hear about your colleague.

I've made an effort to visit the location of all the recent fatal cycling accidents in Dublin as soon as possible after they occurred. These are my photos from the location the day after the accident on Wolfe Tone Quay and Temple Street West.

DadaKopf would you mind giving me some more information about the cyclists, like which direction was your colleague likely to have been cycling in at that time in the morning, etc., PM me if you don't want to give the details on the forum.

Traumadoc

There was a man killed last year in tallaght - He wasin the cycle lane a truck turning left got the feeder arrow to turn left and the cyclist was trapped under the wheels. A lot of the fatalities seem to have the feature of a truck turning left.

Civilian_Target

Very much so - never go up the left at a green light, ever. Just wait with the cars....

beans

Aye, general rule when coming up on the back of a truck:

<-- Suicide ..... Passing Side -->

DirkVoodoo

Maybe we should have the haulage company bring in a blindside mirror. Mount it so that its pointing down next to the cab, give them a better view of their front side. Not sure about angles/positioning, just a thought that came to me there.

EDIT: or maybe just ask drivers to please use their mirrors. I brought my brother out driving and nearly hit him for turning left without looking over his shoulder.

youcancallmeal

A friend of a friend was killed a few years ago on the Walkinstown roundabout and I've heard of a few other fatalities there, I 've even had an accident on that roundabout myself :eek: Anyone who knows it will know how dangerous it is.

Also I cycle up the quays and then back down them every day on the way to work and I absolutely hate it. My main rule is always give Trucks/Buses the right of way and never get too close to them. Its crazy, only last week I came upon two buses sitting side by side in traffic with maybe a foot or two between them, just barely enough room to cycle between them basically. In front of me was a cyclist who went straight ahead and didnt even slow down to consider the danger he might put himself in, the bus on the left pulled to the right a few inches in preparation to rejoin traffic after picking up passengers and the guys bike was literally sandwiched, any further and it would of been him. The mad thing is he started going apesh*t at the bus driver, stupidest thing I've ever seen. I still cringe when I think about it now.

Danbo!

Hi everyone,
Fairly new to boards.ie as you can see, I am a daily commuter from south west dublin to the city centre and i have experienced much of what has been discussed here... I do break red lights often, sometimes, for example at cross-roads when the ped lights are green and theres no-one crossing.. had a nasty one though about a year ago though, breaking a red light at a T-junction in templeogue/terenure, one i had broken daily because it was "perfectly safe to do so." there is an entrance to a house on the left i had never given a second thought until the owner pulled out having seen the traffic stopped. i wasnt hit, but i swerved and hit the ground, certainly scared the bejaysus out of me.. and thank god your man was very sound about it.

Quick question also.. anyone know if its illegal to cycle on a road where a footpath-type cycle track is provided? from templeogue bridge down to the village there is generally cars parked on it/cars pulling out or good aul bin day, so i choose to use the road, seems to get some drivers fairly angry.

youcancallmeal

noblestee wrote:

Quick question also.. anyone know if its illegal to cycle on a road where a footpath-type cycle track is provided? from templeogue bridge down to the village there is generally cars parked on it/cars pulling out or good aul bin day, so i choose to use the road, seems to get some drivers fairly angry.

That cycle path is lethal but I would normally use it as opposed to staying on the road. I wouldn't see any reason why it would be illegal to use the road though, if anything is illegal its the idiots that always park in the cycle lane.