what happens if you (intentionally) skip the Irish exam?

declan_lgs

Would I be locked outof the universities?

afatbollix

you fail your LC and would have to repeat....

you HAVE to pass english, maths and irish to pass

JackKelly

You don't need Irish to pass. TCD accepts students without Irish as far as I remember. You will need another language though. Ordinary Irish is very easy to pass with even a tiny amount of preparation.

Moonbeam

Iirsh or English is a requirement.

If you fail Irish or do not sit it you do not fail your leaving cert

Enemy Of Fate

This is a good question actually.I'm exempt from having to pass Irish to get into any of my choices (because I was born in England, and all my choices are in NUI colleges/ITs) but i'm not sure if I actually have to sit the exam (at the moment i'm not planning too).Anyone else in the same situation as me?

qwertplaywert

man/.i wise the england rule applied to people born in northern ireland........

tolosenc

Gaeilge is the only compulsary subject fo the LC. Ergo, you must pass it. AFAIK your whole LC is void without a pass in even Foundation Irish.

Tribal Joe

Did you do the orals?

Naikon

obl wrote:

Gaeilge is the only compulsary subject fo the LC. Ergo, you must pass it. AFAIK your whole LC is void without a pass in even Foundation Irish.

Get your facts right:)

disturbedangel

I was exempt from irish because i was born in England, and if you fall into this catagory you certainly dont need to sit irish and you dont have a "void" leaving cert or anything like it. If youre not exempt and you dont sit the exam, you wont satisfy the matriculation requirements for alot of college courses, most notably all (im open to correction) NUI courses. If irish isnt a requirement for the course you want to do, then not sitting the exam shouldnt cause you any short term problems.
Ordinary level irish might be worth giving a go even just to get a pass in case you dont like whatever course you get and you want to do something else, lots of friends of mine had their heart set on a particular course for ages and then when they got into it hated it, so i wouldnt recommend limiting your options by just not turning up for irish!

Enemy Of Fate

qwertplaywert wrote:

man/.i wise the england rule applied to people born in northern ireland........

..........It does.In fact it applies to ANYONE born outside of the 26 counties.Doesn't matter if you were only born there and have spent ever day of your life since birth in Ireland (like I pretty much have), you don't have to pass Irish to get into NUI colleges (UCD, UCC, NUIM and NUIG), assuming you fill out the forms......which I suggest doing soon if you want the exemption.

Rozabeez

Look, you're doing ordinary level yeah? if things are bad next year, do foundation. At least you'll still pass.

declan_lgs

Look, you're doing ordinary level yeah? if things are bad next year, do foundation. At least you'll still pass.

OL, yep. But I'm not worried about failing it. I don't want to sit it outof protest at it being compulsory for at least people like me who study for seven other (HL) subjects (including French, so I would hope to be well sorted if I could have some faith in our education system).

Gaeilge is the only compulsary subject fo the LC. Ergo, you must pass it. AFAIK your whole LC is void without a pass in even Foundation Irish.

Huh? I always heard that was only for maths. I'll look it up from a reliable source when I get the time.

Anyhow I defo won't be skipping it if it might get in the way of the college/uni choices I want. That's what I'm trying to find out. And I'm not doing the LC 'till next year so I've a while to work it out.

tolosenc

I should have stated that that doesn't include those with an exemption. And yes, English and Maths, though compulsary for entry to most colleges, are not compulsary LC subjects.

Enemy Of Fate

Rozabeez wrote:

Look, you're doing ordinary level yeah? if things are bad next year, do foundation. At least you'll still pass.

Ah but some colleges (definitely the NUI ones anyways) don't accept a pass in foundation irish for matriculation purposes (which is very strange as they accept a pass a pass in foundation Maths), so that wouldn't be much good if he only wants Irish for matriculation purposes.

Naikon

One of my mates is not sitting Irish despite having no exemption.
This does not mean his LC is void.
If this claim were true, were is the Evidence?
Besides only NUI colleges require Irish.

sd123

im doing pass and i hate it but i will pass it no bother.i was born in england but i'm doing irish since i was 9. its a waste of 5 classes a week imo. the only thing is that ive no other language and tcd is my first few choices. if i got that exemption could i still go there without a foreign language?

declan_lgs

Naikon wrote:

Besides only NUI colleges require Irish.

****e. Guess I'll be sitting it.

tolosenc

A minimum of six subjects is presented, including Irish

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaving_Certificate

Under: Programmes - Established Leaving Certificate

Naikon

Yeah, but average Joe can edit Wikipedia so I would question the authenticity
of that statement.
Find an official statement from the SEC, heck e-mail them and I assure you they will tell you otherwise.

JC 2K3

declan_lgs wrote:

OL, yep. But I'm not worried about failing it. I don't want to sit it outof protest at it being compulsory for at least people like me who study for seven other (HL) subjects

omg ur such a rebel like!!111

Like it or not, since the establishment of the free state it has been a goal of the Irish government to promote a bilingual society. Considering the fact that if you can't pass OL Irish you're either very lazy or mentally retarded, you essentially are protesting against nothing. Get over yourself.

Iorónta go leor, mhaithfí an scrudú Gaeilge dom dá lorgóinn é toisc gur rugadh mé sna Stáit Aontaithe.

Steve01

JC 2K3 wrote:

Considering the fact that if you can't pass OL Irish you're either very lazy or mentally retarded, you essentially are protesting against nothing. Get over yourself.

Agreed. If the OP thinks he's too good to sit the OL Irish paper and pass it then he deserves to fail. I dunno why the vast majority of students resent Irish so much. Is aoibhinn liom an teanga.

ethernet

Enemy Of Fate wrote:

..........It does.In fact it applies to ANYONE born outside of the 26 counties.Doesn't matter if you were only born there and have spent ever day of your life since birth in Ireland (like I pretty much have), you don't have to pass Irish to get into NUI colleges (UCD, UCC, NUIM and NUIG), assuming you fill out the forms......which I suggest doing soon if you want the exemption.

AFAIK, you don't have to do it if you come to Ireland when you're eight years or older.

Enemy Of Fate

JC 2K3 wrote:

Considering the fact that if you can't pass OL Irish you're either very lazy or mentally retarded, you essentially are protesting against nothing. Get over yourself.

No.Its statements like these that show you're mentally retarded.So someone who can get 400+ points in the leaving but can't pass OL Irish is retarded?Do you realise how stupid that sounds?OL Irish is NOT easy, especially if you haven't learnt any Irish in 11+ years.

For instance back at the start of 5th year when I thought I had to pass Irish to get into my college choices, I started going to grinds and putting SERIOUS amounts of work into Irish and my Irish improved amazingly quickly.But it still would have taken me many, MANY hours of (pointless) work just to scrap a D3, and those hours could be better spent on other subjects which are actually important (to me).So saying someone who can't pass OL Irish is retarded is just ****ing moronic.

TommyGrav

I got through the leaving first time without doing irish, and am in psychology in trinity. DCU and Trinity don't require it, but UCD and NUI's do.

Compulsory irish is a joke, you don't foster love of a language by threatening people's future with the learning of it. It's not necessary and far less relevant to life than many optional leaving cert subjects.

Enemy Of Fate

ethernet wrote:

AFAIK, you don't have to do it if you come to Ireland when you're eight years or older.

No they changed that last year.Now it doesn't matter if you went to primary and secondary school here, and have learned Irish all your life (like I have) if you were born outside of the 26 counties you are exempt from having to pass Irish to get into any NUI colleges (which are UCD, UCC, NUIM and NUIG).But ONLY if you apply for the exemption.You don't just get it automatically, you have to fill out the paperwork, send in your birth cert (the actualy cert, not a copy), get your school to sign the paperwork and loads of other stuff too.Took me about a month to get my exemption, but it sure as hell worth it!!!

Enemy Of Fate

TommyGrav wrote:

Compulsory irish is a joke, you don't foster love of a language by threatening people's future with the learning of it. It's not necessary and far less relevant to life than many optional leaving cert subjects.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

JC 2K3

Enemy Of Fate wrote:

So someone who can get 400+ points in the leaving but can't pass OL Irish is retarded?

No, they're non existant.

Enemy Of Fate wrote:

For instance back at the start of 5th year when I thought I had to pass Irish to get into my college choices, I started going to grinds and putting SERIOUS amounts of work into Irish and my Irish improved amazingly quickly.But it still would have taken me many, MANY hours of (pointless) work just to scrap a D3, and those hours could be better spent on other subjects which are actually important (to me).So saying someone who can't pass OL Irish is retarded is just ****ing moronic.

What the hell were you doing during your Junior Cert? Many hours to barely scrape a D3? Maybe if you had serious difficulty learning languages(arguably a form of mental retardation) and/or only started learning Irish in 5th year you might have problems. And anyway, if you haven't learned any Irish in 11+ years, much of the fault lies on yourself, no matter how bad the teaching methods were.

Enemy Of Fate

JC 2K3 wrote:

No, they're non existant.

No they're not.I know many people like this, and I myself intend to be one of these people.

JC 2K3 wrote:

What the hell were you doing during your Junior Cert?

I did **** all during the JC.Barely managed a D.However I got a B in my honours German and plan to do something similar in the Leaving Cert.

JC 2K3 wrote:

Many hours to barely scrape a D3? Maybe if you had serious difficulty learning languages(arguably a form of mental retardation) and/or only started learning Irish in 5th year you might have problems.

Well like I said earlier I got a B in Junior Cert honours german, and am planning on getting something similar in the LC.Its not my fault Irish is so difficult and downright frustrating to learn (not to mention it is definitely the most pointless course on the leaving cert).Also I like the way you jump to the conclusion that anyone who can't learn languages is mentally retarded?Real intelligent.Ever hear of anything called dyslexia?

Haven't a Clue

I dunno. I find Irish one of the handier subjects. Like, you've got the poems on the paper, the choice of essays that'll come up are very limited, the stories all have an easily identified theme in them.

I can understand how some people wouldn't like it at all, but difficult? I dunno.

tolosenc

JC 2K3, I agree with you, for once.

And TommyGrav, I hope that defeatist attitude serves well you in later life.

TommyGrav

obl wrote:

JC 2K3, I agree with you, for once.

And TommyGrav, I hope that defeatist attitude serves well you in later life.

I'm as optimistic as they come really mate!
What defeatist attitude? Learning German and French which I plan to use extensively through life and sacrificing a language that's useless to me?
I got everything i wanted out of the leaving cert, ignoring Irish hasn't hurt me, I didn't compromise anything...
How is that defeatist? What do you think defeatist means?

JC 2K3

Enemy Of Fate wrote:

No they're not.I know many people like this, and I myself intend to be one of these people.


I did **** all during the JC.Barely managed a D.However I got a B in my honours German and plan to do something similar in the Leaving Cert.

You're lazy, simple as.

Enemy Of Fate wrote:

Well like I said earlier I got a B in Junior Cert honours german, and am planning on getting something similar in the LC.Its not my fault Irish is so difficult and downright frustrating to learn (not to mention it is definitely the most pointless course on the leaving cert).

Irish isn't any more difficult as a language than German or French(although the standard of LC Irish is higher than LC German/French). And is equally as pointless as both those subjects(don't give me the "you might go to Germany/France" crap, everything is in English nowadays) as well as English etc.

Enemy Of Fate wrote:

Also I like the way you jump to the conclusion that anyone who can't learn languages is mentally retarded?Real intelligent.Ever hear of anything called dyslexia?

The "mentally retarded" thing is pedantic, replace it with "severe learning difficulty" if you wish.

JC 2K3

TommyGrav wrote:

Learning German and French which I plan to use extensively through life

You plan to use them extensively through life? Ha! Doing what? Fair enough if you plan to live/work in France/Germany for the rest of your life, but apart from that there is no need for either of those languages. Most French/German people speak a reasonable level of English anyway.

Enemy Of Fate

JC 2K3 wrote:

You're lazy, simple as.

No, i'm not.I just don't see the point in doing Irish.It is beyond ridiculous that is still a compulsary subject for secondary school, and is sheer madness that many colleges require it for entry.Simple as.

JC 2K3 wrote:

Irish isn't any more difficult as a language than German or French(although the standard of LC Irish is higher than LC German/French). And is equally as pointless as both those subjects(don't give me the "you might go to Germany/France" crap, everything is in English nowadays) as well as English etc.

Ah but see theres a big difference between planning to use Irish and planning to use French/German.Those languages are still the primary languages in those countries (and a few others).While most people in both countries do speak English (I know this from personal experience) there'll always be a certain amount of people who don't, and also should you ever choose to work in a country that speaks those languages (for instance i'd love to work in someplace like Berlin) speaking the language would be a major selling point for yourself......Compare that with here.Everyone speaks English.Being able to speak Irish gives you no benefit whatsoever.Its not our primary language (in fact its NOWHERE near being our primary language).A very, very, VERY small amount of the population speak Irish in any decent way, and even less speak it fluently.Thats just the reality of the situation.So no.Irish is nowhere near as relevant as German/French.

JC 2K3 wrote:

The "mentally retarded" thing is pedantic, replace it with "severe learning difficulty" if you wish.

Fair enough.

JC 2K3

Enemy Of Fate wrote:

No, i'm not.I just don't see the point in doing Irish.It is beyond ridiculous that is still a compulsary subject for secondary school, and is sheer madness that many colleges require it for entry.Simple as.

As I said before, like it or not, since the foundation of the free state it has been the goal of the government to promote Irish and a bilingual society.

Enemy Of Fate wrote:

Ah but see theres a big difference between planning to use Irish and planning to use French/German.Those languages are still the primary languages in those countries (and a few others).While most people in both countries do speak English (I know this from personal experience) there'll always be a certain amount of people who don't, and also should you ever choose to work in a country that speaks those languages (for instance i'd love to work in someplace like Berlin) speaking the language would be a major selling point for yourself......Compare that with here.Everyone speaks English.Being able to speak Irish gives you no benefit whatsoever.Its not our primary language (in fact its NOWHERE near being our primary language).A very, very, VERY small amount of the population speak Irish in any decent way, and even less speak it fluently.Thats just the reality of the situation.So no.Irish is nowhere near as relevant as German/French.

Irish gives you the benefit of being able to work in a wide range of jobs in the Gaeltacht and in Irish language media. Enthusiasm for Irish is at one of its highest levels for decades, more and more Irish speaking schools are being founded and more and more people are speaking Irish.

Irish not as relevant as German/French? Relevance is relative, my friend.

And I'm sure if you ever do work in Berlin or somewhere and you meet with Irish people there you'll be slightly disappointed that you can't speak some of your native language.

Enemy Of Fate

JC 2K3 wrote:

And I'm sure if you ever do work in Berlin or somewhere and you meet with Irish people there you'll be slightly disappointed that you can't speak some of your native language.

In fairness i'd actually be more surprised that I've met someone who can actually speak Irish, and in a foreign country no less.I can imagine how the conversation would go now.....

Jimmy Patrick O Toole Dempsey:So you're Irish?I'm Irish too!!Conas ata tu?
Me: O.O
..............Ta fadhb na drugai go forlaithean in Eireann faoi lathair.Ta said i nGach ait.Ta said na bailte mor agus fuain tuath.Usaideann gach daione drugai anois agus arois, mar ta dha cineal drugai an.Drugal dileateca and drugai midileatheca.
Jimmy Patrick O Toole Dempsey:...................... *Starts backing away*

JC 2K3

You seriously underestimate the amount of people with a reasonable level of Irish that exist. I heard that there were approx 700,000 people with at least some level of conversational Irish in Ireland. Something like 100,000 use it every day.

Selphie

Why bother intentionally skipping the exam? Just go and give it a shot anyway? The OL paper, as far as I know, requires only a basic level of Irish. Five poems, is it? And the stories. I'm not sure what else there is on it, but as someone else said, OL Irish could be passed with just minimal preparation. So, you quite possibly would pass Irish, and not have to worry about being locked out of any universities. Tbh, I don't see why anyone would intentionally skip an exam. Might as well try.

declan_lgs

JC 2K3 wrote:

Like it or not, since the establishment of the free state it has been a goal of the Irish government to promote a bilingual society.

I guess I have a small problem with that.

Considering the fact that if you can't pass OL Irish you're either very lazy or mentally retarded, you essentially are protesting against nothing.

Protesting against extremely poor flexibility in subject choices. If things don't change, more people WILL be prevented from taking up all of the other subjects - geography, history, physics, applied maths, Spanish, Latin, etc.

This could be improved extremely efficiently by allowing just those who will keep 7 subjects to drop Irish.

Get over yourself.

Ahh Jimmeh..

TommyGrav wrote:

Compulsory irish is a joke, you don't foster love of a language by threatening people's future with the learning of it.

I like that.

And hmm if DCU and Trinity don't need Irish, that's really cool of them, I'll be looking at getting into 'em so.

Moonbeam

obl wrote:

Gaeilge is the only compulsary subject fo the LC. Ergo, you must pass it. AFAIK your whole LC is void without a pass in even Foundation Irish.

I think you will find that that information is incorrect.

I know more then one person who went through the Irish university system who failed Irish in their leaving certs,and did not repeat it at any later date.

JC 2K3

declan_lgs wrote:

Protesting against extremely poor flexibility in subject choices. If things don't change, more people WILL be prevented from taking up all of the other subjects - geography, history, physics, applied maths, Spanish, Latin, etc.

Please explain how. You have to do OL Irish so you can't do other subjects as well?

declan_lgs wrote:

This could be improved extremely efficiently by allowing just those who will keep 7 subjects to drop Irish.

Or a better idea, which is currently in process, would be to incite more interest in the language in society and change the way it's taught at both primary and secondary level, which is happening. We learn the language for 14 years in school and yet most people's Irish doesn't reflect this due to bad teaching methods. Tweak the system slightly, get more kids actually speaking Irish in school and all the problems are fixed, simple as.

declan_lgs

JC 2K3 wrote:

Please explain how. You have to do OL Irish so you can't do other subjects as well?

You can't do as many other subjects, or you can't do the other subjects as well as you could otherwise.

And the real shame is in the fact that in the optional subjects, many of them are really, really useful. I don't have biology so my options are cut in becoming a doctor or surgeon, and I'd be seriously interested in those. I don't have biology, but I do have Irish. ZOMG WORLD WATCH OUT!

What's the big problem with just giving us the choice to drop it?

Or a better idea, which is currently in process, would be to incite more interest in the language in society and change the way it's taught at both primary and secondary level, which is happening.

Great, does that mean we can finally stop dragging people to Irish class?

Tweak the system slightly, get more kids actually speaking Irish in school and all the problems are fixed, simple as.

No, they aren't. Many people would prefer be studying something else, is that not acceptable?

JC 2K3

declan_lgs wrote:

You can't do as many other subjects, or you can't do the other subjects as well as you could otherwise.

And the real shame is in the fact that in the optional subjects, many of them are really, really useful. I don't have biology so my options are cut in becoming a doctor or surgeon, and I'd be seriously interested in those. I don't have biology, but I do have Irish. ZOMG WORLD WATCH OUT!

What's the big problem with just giving us the choice to drop it?
Great, does that mean we can finally stop dragging people to Irish class?No, they aren't. Many people would prefer be studying something else, is that not acceptable?

LC students are 17/18. We're not old/mature/important enough to be accommodated according to what we want to study. You have your whole life after the LC to choose what you want to/don't want to study. The LC is simply a competition to get into college and has very little influence on what you actually learn in college. You're options are not cut in the slightest should being a doctor/surgeon interest you. You have the rest of your life to study biology in depth if you so wish.

Irish is part of our culture, like it or not. All that is asked of you is to pass the OL exam. Little or no study required. After the LC it is no longer imposed on you in any way.

Once again, get over yourself and stop trying to be so rebellious over something so small. At 17/18 you're simply not important and no one cares.

ZorbaTehZ

JC 2K3 wrote:

Irish is part of our culture, like it or not. All that is asked of you is to pass the OL exam. Little or no study required. After the LC it is no longer imposed on you in any way.

Hear, hear.

MathsManiac

Regarding the confusion about compulsory or not:

1. Schools receive money from the Department based on the number of recognised pupils in the school (called the "capitation grant"). In order for you to be a recognised senior pupil, your programme of study must include an approved course in Irish. This is the sense in which Irish is the only compulsory subject. (i.e. if the school doesn't make you do it, they aren't entitled to claim the money).
   
2. The Department allows exemptions from the above Irish requirement for people in certain circumstances, including having spent certain periods of time abroad, and in the case of people with specified learning disabilities.
   
3. The NUI exempt from the entry requirement all those who are exempt from the Department's point of view, AND also exempt others, including those born outside Ireland. You have to submit the paperwork.
   
4. You will be given a certificate no matter how many or what subjects you sit, irrespective of what grades you get.
   
5. As far as the Department and the SEC are concerned, there is no such thing as "pass" or "fail" grades. Many people who use your certificate to make decisions about you (including third-level institutions and employers) may choose to regard E and below as fail grades. That is their business. (They don't always, by the way; for example, an E in Higher maths is accepted for many courses where the minimum requirement is some specified grade at ordinary level.)

Hope this clarifies.

Anyway, give it a lash. You've nothin' to lose, and no-one will give a toss about your "protest".

While you're at it, why don't you answer your maths paper through Irish as well. Just write "Frg" instead of "Ans" and get a bonus!

declan_lgs

MathsManiac wrote:

Regarding the confusion about compulsory or not:

1. Schools receive money from the Department based on the number of recognised pupils in the school (called the "capitation grant"). In order for you to be a recognised senior pupil, your programme of study must include an approved course in Irish. This is the sense in which Irish is the only compulsory subject. (i.e. if the school doesn't make you do it, they aren't entitled to claim the money).
   
2. The Department allows exemptions from the above Irish requirement for people in certain circumstances, including having spent certain periods of time abroad, and in the case of people with specified learning disabilities.
   
3. The NUI exempt from the entry requirement all those who are exempt from the Department's point of view, AND also exempt others, including those born outside Ireland. You have to submit the paperwork.
   
4. You will be given a certificate no matter how many or what subjects you sit, irrespective of what grades you get.
   
5. As far as the Department and the SEC are concerned, there is no such thing as "pass" or "fail" grades. Many people who use your certificate to make decisions about you (including third-level institutions and employers) may choose to regard E and below as fail grades. That is their business. (They don't always, by the way; for example, an E in Higher maths is accepted for many courses where the minimum requirement is some specified grade at ordinary level.)

Hope this clarifies.

Thank you.

While you're at it, why don't you answer your maths paper through Irish as well. Just write "Frg" instead of "Ans" and get a bonus!

Hmm. What bonus? And would I not have to do my physics etc in Irish too?

MathsManiac

Well, I was half-joking, but since you ask:

No, you can do some subjects through Irish and others not, and:

If you enter for answering through Irish, you'll be automatically given the Irish version of the paper. However, you are allowed to get an English copy as well if you request it. This means that you basically have a glossary of most of the words you might need (if any!)

You do need to say in advance that you may want to take the exam through irish; otherwise there may not be any Irish versions of the paper sent to your school. So, you might need the co-operation of the school to do this.

The bonus in the case of maths is 5% of your marks if you get up to 75%, and thereafter it reduces on a sliding scale.

JC 2K3

MathsManiac wrote:

While you're at it, why don't you answer your maths paper through Irish as well. Just write "Frg" instead of "Ans" and get a bonus!

Hehehe....

You'd have to have ticked the box on your form you filled in with your subject choices though.

But yeah, Irish bonuses ftw. Sucks to do the LC through English

layke

Lol, the rumours here

I did what you are suggesting. I still got my LC just without Irish on it.

Went to college and all that.

Naikon

layke wrote:

Lol, the rumours here

I did what you are suggesting. I still got my LC just without Irish on it.

Went to college and all that.

As will I.....soon.