Order of Weights on Bar

Leon11

This is going to seem like I'm a crazy dillusional dumbass so here goes anyways:D I was doing squats on friday and went to 90k and found it very tough coming back up on the last one. The plates were loaded as 25k +20k on each side.

Anyways earlier the gym was pretty busy with the more established lifters hogging up the 20's n 25's so I had to load my bar with 90k as follows 15,10,10,10 on each side. This was way easier for me to do and I hit an extra 2 reps no problem.

Notes:
1) I ate the same thing 50mins before training both times.
2) Squating was done after benching both times.
3) Benching number of reps increased on 2nd session.
4) I have a bad headache today.
5) I had plenty of good sleep both previous nights

When I say it was easier I mean easier as say doing an assisted pull up as opposed to doing a pull up with extra weights on.

Has anybody ever experienced this feeling?

Feel free to throw the book at me now!

BossArky

Are you sure they were kgs and not lbs the second time around?

Leon11

I hope so, better get the eyes checked:eek: No the weight was def the same.

Hanley

There can be some fluctuation in what the weights actually weigh versus what's printed on them. BUT you could also just have gotten plain stronger....

Btw if you're using an olympic bar then you were actually squatting 110kg right??

Leon11

Ye that's right, goal is to hit 140k squat 150k deadlift and 120k bench for 5 lifts all without the bar. I've two more squat days this week so I'll switch up and do the same again ie wed big plates and fri small plates. I know it sounds ridiculous but I can't describe it. Maybe Ram is kicking in I don't know?

Hanley

120kg worth of plates on the bench for 5??? That would be insanely sick.

Leon11

Ye I know, they're pretty tough goals esp the benching but I believe that it is plausible within the next 12-18 months.

I'm only really getting in to the weights now since I can see the advantages it will make towards my rugby. I'm not interested too much in the aesthitics side of weight training it's purely to make me as strong and as powerful as possible. I've always had an awkward jump, lifters complained of me being a dead weight to lift after a certain height etc, so I decided to incorporate TBT since Jan. My standing jump has already improved dramatically and I put it purely down to the lifts I'm doing.

Edit
I'm only at 55k for the bench so this are obviously needs a lot lotta work to be done. DL's are at 90 also. Think I may also post a training log up to keep an online track of things

tribulus

Any reason why you don't count the bar weight?

It's always going to be 20kg.

Leon11

Don't know really I used to but then I trained with some rugby lads up in the gym and they just counted plates. Guess I'll use bar weight included from now on. Seems less confusing too.

tribulus

And it helps the ego

110 sounds so much better than 90!

Money Shot

Leon11 wrote:

Ye that's right, goal is to hit 140k squat 150k deadlift and 120k bench for 5 lifts all without the bar. I've two more squat days this week so I'll switch up and do the same again ie wed big plates and fri small plates. I know it sounds ridiculous but I can't describe it. Maybe Ram is kicking in I don't know?

Can I ask what you a benching and deadlifting at the moment, as 140kg for five reps is quite a goal - you might have to put on a fair bit of weight to make that ? I take it you're quite a big guy yourself.

Leon11

110k for squats and deads, Only 75k for benching. Realistically it's gonna take me at least 18months to get anywhere near that benching figure but I've got at least a year of college left so there's no reason why not too. If I can add 1.25-2.5 k a week it should see me get there.

Benching from me is extremely weak for my size, 6"4 @ 104/105 kilos

brianthebard

At 6' 4 you are going to have fairly long arms so that will impact your bench to a degree, since you have to push the bar further to lockout. Those numbers are quite impressive and you have a good attitude to lifting and good goals. Keep up the good work!

Money Shot

Leon11 wrote:

110k for squats and deads, Only 75k for benching. Realistically it's gonna take me at least 18months to get anywhere near that benching figure but I've got at least a year of college left so there's no reason why not too. If I can add 1.25-2.5 k a week it should see me get there.

Benching from me is extremely weak for my size, 6"4 @ 104/105 kilos

Benching is lagging behind alright, but some tall guys can have problems with some lifts - Bench presses, squats or deadlifts, or even all. You might be benching too much - how many times a week do you bench ?

I wish you the best of luck in your goal tjhough, pretty much doubling your bench in a year would be some achievement. I'v never found it that easy to add 1.25-2.5 kg a week on to my bench. I tend to reach a plateau that I just can't pass. I then leave benching for a while, and work on other muscles, lifts, then go back and build the bench up again - usually, I can go past where I was, but not always.
Having said that, given your size, I'd reckon you will get yourself up to 100-110 kg on the bench without too much trouble.

Hanley

It's gonna take a serious effort alright mate. You'll probably get to 100-110 with no problem and stall out around then.

It took me a whole year to put 5kg on my bench ffs!! And it still sucks...

Patto

I got caught out in a few weeks ago using what I thought was an oly bar up in Total fitness in Sandyford. I thought I was making great progress until I discovered that the bar was shorter than me (i.e. it was a 6' bar not a standard 7' oly bar).

Good luck with those goals, its interesting that your squats are so close to your deadlift, do you go all the way down (ATG) on the squats?

t-ha

Could be extra strength. Could be inaccuracies in the mass of the weights. Bring them up to a scales and measure them - unless they're high quality plates you'll often find they're a bit off here and there.

Jak

I have never noticed any difference in lifting with regard to ordering of plates - although generally I go heavy to light from the inside of the bar. However, I would interchange 25s, 20s regularly in my bench session and never even think about it. So I would suggest looking elsewhere for your answer.

As for goals and plateaus - a serious bench is tough and longer term in my view. Your upper body is generally weaker than your lower body and receives less daily attention - even fat guys have legs that probably have a reasonable level of strength.

When I started lifting it was all about deads and squats because they were easy to get up to impressive weights (relatively) in. Now I find running, biking, rowing take care of my lower body very well nowadays.

Anyway - few points for bench:

6ft 4 and 105kgs is not an ideal build for bench - quite simply round barrels with short arms tend to make better benchers. Once they arch up the range of movement is really quite short. Irrespective, your genetics and build play a huge role - you can only adapt your shape within certain limits and you are stuck with your genes. If you are looking for serious lifts these start to become relevant, if you are just hoping to bench your body weight then it's irrelevant.

Have a spotter - training partner. If not - give up any idea of developing a heavy bench this decade.

When assessing your bench - have a proper 1rm session. On a Saturday I might have 15-20 sets of mixed bench work with some low 2 or 3 rep stuff in there. 10 or so work sets will not leave you in any fit shape to estimate your 1rm. Have a set program for testing - be rested - eat twice and have a snack and plenty of liquids handy in the session (applies for most sessions). Food and rest have a massive impact in any given week on your session.

Don't overtrain your bench - if you have other upper body work and you train properly, your shoulders are likely taking a fair beating each week. One solid full on bench session a week should suffice and leave adequate rest for rebuilding. Don't ever train shoulders the day before a bench session - it is just pointless.

Be aware that bench takes time. You make early quick gains and then it slows significantly. I had goals of 100kg when starting, then 120, 140, 160, 180, 200+. Take a relative shorter term goal for yourself and work towards it. Once you break it try to to do it again, or close to it, in following sessions. It is important for progression that you don't continue to 'respect' weights you have passed - your mindset needs to be - "I've done this, it's beneath me".

However, you may reach a plateau of sorts. At 29, 6ft 1, 105kg, I believe that I have more or less reached a plateau for my current size, lifestyle and balance between my other training and need for endurance. I'd still do the odd one or two at 180/190, but I'm no longer really pushing for higher weight. When I was 17st + I broke 200, but frankly the trade-off in weight gained was not worth it to me. Nowadays my current interest is in developing lower range endurance - 10x140 etc. and being a strong paddler!

Now I'm not saying plateaus can't be broken and certainly for your training you can try things like:

Variation - pyramids, reverse, partials, chains, supersets, dumbbells, negatives, dropsets, auxillary excersises etc etc. There are endless ways to continually shake up your program - be sure you always keep it mixed.

Gain weight - Now at 6ft 1 and 105kgs I long ago decided I was not willing to pile on the pounds for having a heavier bench. As mentioned, at over 17st I had a bench of just over 200kg - but I was carrying too much weight and it simply was not worth it for my other sports/activities. Bulk mattered for breaking plateaus was what I learnt. At your height you could easily hold another 5kgs, assuming what you have is not mostly blubber.

Be semi-pro - What I mean by this, is that as a student I found I would make good gains in the summer, when I could literally train and then go home and sleep and then train/eat etc. If you have the free time, put more focus on resting and quality eating as well as your training.

Supplements - Related to weight, just make sure you are covering your protein needs and creatine if you feel it is worth it - etc.

Gluck,

JAK.

BrianD3

Does the distribution of weight on the bar make a difference? I don't know but it is an interesting question. Obviously if you are using smaller and more plates for something like a deadlift your ROM is altered so it can make quite a difference. For a bench or squat? A relatively large number of smaller plates may mean more weight towards the ends of the bar possibly causing more bending/springing of the bar. What effect this would have if any I don't know.

edit: for more constructive advice, see JAK's post above!

Leon11

Patto wrote:

I got caught out in a few weeks ago using what I thought was an oly bar up in Total fitness in Sandyford. I thought I was making great progress until I discovered that the bar was shorter than me (i.e. it was a 6' bar not a standard 7' oly bar).

Good luck with those goals, its interesting that your squats are so close to your deadlift, do you go all the way down (ATG) on the squats?

I would go about 95degrees if that makes sense. I've had trouble getting a full ROM doing squats but I've improved my ROM unbelievably in the last 3 weeks or so.

I could go more for deadlifts but I'll already be wrecked doing 5x5 so after doing Squats and Benching those DL's get harder.

Jak,

That's some great advice and I'm going to keep a copy of what you said just for some pointers. I've hit up the diet aspect of training in the last 6 weeks and feel better and more equipped to lift heavier.

Regarding weight I thought I was nearly 30% bodyfat, I ordered a calipers and it turns out I'm at 21-23% which is a lot better than I thought. My ideal weight is between 98k-105k which is where I am now but the composition needs some changing:D

Anyways cheers all for the input and I guess the answer to my original question is that it doesn't matter!

Hanley

Your ideal weight...? According to who?

The majority of guys that I train with that are 100kg are in the 5'8 - 6' range. Taller guys just need to be heavier. It's all a matter of leverages.

I'm 5'10 and about 92kg at the the moment, which just isn't good enough leverage wise, so I will be making the move towards 100kg over the next 10 months.

I really think you could do with being heavier if you're to have anychance.

brianthebard

Leon11 wrote:

I would go about 95degrees if that makes sense. I've had trouble getting a full ROM doing squats but I've improved my ROM unbelievably in the last 3 weeks or so.

I could go more for deadlifts but I'll already be wrecked doing 5x5 so after doing Squats and Benching those DL's get harder.

Just wondering cause this sentence was a bit ambiguous, but are you training squats deads and bench on the same day?

Leon11

ye training all 3 on same day though not every session it's just once a week like this, I'm following Chad Waterburys 5x5 program at the moment up to late June. I'll then switch over to split training for the rest of my summer which will obviously allow me to develop more. However I'll only do this because I will have a lot of free time, I prefer Total Body Workouts because it means I can do them during the season. Admittedly I was one of those guys who would do 2 weeks of gym then stop for a 6 weeks and start again. I've changed that now albeit without rugby to distract me.

Regarding my weight, I'm not really interested now in becoming huge (I know it's not likely). At my height the most I would want to weigh compared to other guys in my position is 110kg which quite frankly for a loose forward a lot of weight to be carrying around!! I like to be fast and find that once I'm over 100k my mobility drops as does my acceleration.

I'll take on the comments regarding the weight etc and maybe I'll come to realise that I will have to lower my target weight and reps but for now I'm gonna work my arse off to get there.

brianthebard

If you are lifting heavy for each of those three lifts then you should really reconsider doing them all together imo. You will really compromise your potential, and combining deads and squats in the one day is a recipe for injury afaik. Even if it weren't you won't be able to give 100% to each of those lifts if you do them all on the one day. Although having said that I haven't seen the programme, others will no doubt post their thoughts.

Hanley

brianthebard wrote:

If you are lifting heavy for each of those three lifts then you should really reconsider doing them all together imo. You will really compromise your potential, and combining deads and squats in the one day is a recipe for injury afaik. Even if it weren't you won't be able to give 100% to each of those lifts if you do them all on the one day. Although having said that I haven't seen the programme, others will no doubt post their thoughts.

Thing is training multiple times per week on the same lift with varying intensity is an excellent way to gain strength, and is the whole basis behind the Sheiko routines. http://www.extremefitness.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-20790.html

Sets and reps are reversed in Russian programs... so 5x1 = 5 reps and one set

HammerHeadGym

Hanley wrote:

...probably get to 100-110 with no problem and stall out around then...

Yeah, the bench plateaus there for a while alright. Took a serious effort for me to break away. Improvements slowed down then, slow but steady. lol

daveirl

This post has been deleted.