What would you do

Zambia

By now you have all seen this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wear/6551589.stm

In short a 17 year old advertised an internet party in hers folks house (while they where out) and 200 people turned up and wrecked the place she expected 40.

She claims the site and her profile was hacked (lies how did they no the house was free).

Having no kids I would not even begin to know but I would like to hear what other people might do to correct/punish this behaviour.

Oryx

My kids are much younger, and I honestly have no idea how Id deal with something like that. In fact, it makes me kind of nervous to think that I have all that in front of me. :eek: I suppose Id base it on how my parents dealt with me... (tho I never trashed the house) you paid back for any wrong, through work at home, or replacing what you broke, and I was taught the importance of making a genuine apology.

littlebitdull

Its a toughie all right. I guess its something that could easily happen. After all anyone I knew as a teenager who had a "free house" would host a party. And word got around very quickly - and that was all before mobile phones and internet - bebo and the like.

I read about this insident here via your link and on another parenting site via the sky news link. I think the parents are right to leave the youngone living somewhere because I am sure they could not even so much as look at her, never mind get past what she has caused.

I would imagine it would be easy enough if you knew what you were doing to mess with someone's "my space", and i could see how this could become the event it turned into.

Two things I dont fully understand.... one is why did the girl not call the cops herself - she knew things had turned nasty - she is 17 not 7 - she knew she was in a difficult situation and should have known to call in help.

Another thing ... why did the neighbours not call the cops either?

One other thing is ... my kids will have to be working full time - and therefore have income to replace/repair any damage before I leave them "home alone"...

littlebitdull

As to the question about what punishment ...

Well I would deffinatly block her off the PC for a start.

And give her a mop and bucket and get her cleaning up the mess...

Then she could forget about "pocket money" for ... well forever really!!

Pherekydes

I'd wait a few months until she turns 18 and then give her the key (of somewhere else).

I just came back from Clare after leaving my 19 year-old home alone and specifically told him no parties, but he still had a "few friends around". Luckily, there was no damage, and I'm sure it's coz he knows what would happen...

A few years back, an older child was left home alone. What a disaster! Heating on full, windows wide open (coz it was too hot-the mind boggles); cigarette stub marks on the carpet, etc. Yet there was no parties (the neighbours would tell us). It was just her and her bf. Eventually, things came to a head and she was shown the door. She now has her own place to wreck (and she does). Free council housing. When people have no respect, they have no respect.

Carrigart Exile

I would immediately ban her access to the internet and then she would get herself a job and be made to pay back every penny it cost to repair teh damage her party cost

RainyDay

The really important question is not 'what would you do' but 'how did we get to this'? It is far too late to be worrying what to do after the fact.

Perhaps the parents just shouldn't have left the girl on her own. Perhaps she should have been dragged along on the trip, or farmed out to a relative, or a maiden aunt should have been moved into the house for the duration of the absence.

Khannie

I'm begging her to give the names to police

That's the clincher for me. Zero respect. It's not a case of what would I do because it'll never happen with my kids. Sure, they may have a party, and sure, the house may get damaged (we (nearly) all did it), but that quote above shows absolute disregard for her parents to me.

Kildrought

I made a decision a very long time ago that (barring a trip to A&E!), I would not leave mine home alone overnight (regardless of age!); if they are still living w. me by the time they are 25 then I've done something wrong!!

I haven't had any reason yet to revise that decision!

Jotter

Id go absolutely crazy if my kid did that. I never had parties in my parents house bec I was too afraid something like that would happen - not the 200 people but the damage! My husband is a great fan of parties and the last one we had his mates were messing and broke the handle off my new fridge - he was grounded for a month!

I would prob tell her to get a job and move out bec she has no respect for her parents after doing that and esp saying her site was hacked, what a load of crap. She should have called the police when she saw things were out of hand, I wonder was she a brat before the parents went away in which case she shouldnt have been left on her own at all.

Zambia

This was sort of the answer I was expecting, re the hacking of the my space add well I wouldsay that was just pure lies. what are the chances of the hack happening on the same night she was in a free house.

In regards calling the police i would say she was comatosed with drink early on in the night.

In another article it stated she was living with friends for a cooling off period.

ArthurDent

Kildrought wrote:

I made a decision a very long time ago that (barring a trip to A&E!), I would not leave mine home alone overnight (regardless of age!); if they are still living w. me by the time they are 25 then I've done something wrong!!

I haven't had any reason yet to revise that decision!

I'm with you on this:D

Kashkai

Nice to know I'm not the only strict parent on here. There's no way I'd leave my kids alone in the house (even though thats at least 10 years away ). They'd know by then that respect is a two way street. They can have their friends around but no parties or overnighters. If they abuse this, then bye bye friends.

There's far too much talk nowadays about trusting your kids and giving them their space to "grow and develop". I'm 38 and so fairly young but I believe kids need to learn rules and what is and is not acceptable. If they're not taught whats right from wrong at an early age, then what hope have you got when they are in the rebellious teens.

Our society is growing increasingly frayed around the edges from packs of kids vandalising public property, harrassing people in the street and at the extremes, robbing cars and joyriding. I'd almost forgotten what living in an urban neighbourhood was like until I had to move back to the parent's place while my house was being built. All of the above apply in their Dublin 13 estate where its not safe to go out after dark with the joyriders and packs of kids throwing bottles. Where are their parents? In a pub? If my kids go out at night, I'd like to know where they where.

Snowbie

Prosperous Dave wrote:

Nice to know I'm not the only strict parent on here. There's no way I'd leave my kids alone in the house (even though thats at least 10 years away ). They'd know by then that respect is a two way street. They can have their friends around but no parties or overnighters. If they abuse this, then bye bye friends.

Now just because you'd no friends when we where younger does'nt mean you begrudge your little uns when there older of friends.Yes i too saw the prison cell at the back of your new refubished house with the sign"For my Teenagers only from 13yrs onwards,cell door closed from 8pm to 8am friday to sunday" across the top:D
I do believe in a "when and where to draw the line approach"but not a "nazi style approach".

I believe kids need to learn rules and what is and is not acceptable.

Agreed but we can only do our best.:)

If they're not taught whats right from wrong at an early age, then what hope have you got when they are in the rebellious teens.

Have a party with them.Cant beat them,join them.At least the house be safe.;)

I'd almost forgotten what living in an urban neighbourhood was like until I had to move back to the parent's place while my house was being built. All of the above apply in their Dublin 13 estate where its not safe to go out after dark with the joyriders and packs of kids throwing bottles.

Well OMG!! Was much worse when we lived there under the same roof.Suppose you are living in the sticks much longer than you where living in D13.I can feel your isolation and sense of security of having to live beside sheep and cows besides you live in close proximity to modello,there are more screeching tyres there than where you are atm.:D

IF my kids go out at night, I'd like to know where they where.

They would have to find the key to the cell first.:rolleyes:

My solution would be...Be firm but be fair.Its nice to have your children as friends too when there older.Friendship would be the true winner here imo.It earns the greatest trust.

Beruthiel

Mini me would never have done this in the first place. She has a healthy fear of what I would do to her if she did and what's more, she knows I would actually do it. I am not the type of mother you cross.

Kildrought

Mini me would never have done this in the first place

Good Luck with that! Post back in 15 years time and let us know if all your parent plans went exactly the way you thought!

Nevyn

Considering that Beruthiel's daughter is now an adult they have.

Kashkai

Snowbie wrote:

My solution would be...Be firm but be fair.Its nice to have your children as friends too when there older.Friendship would be the true winner here imo.It earns the greatest trust.

Ha, your kids will ship you off to the looney bin, its called Cavan isn't it? No wait you want to move there yourself :eek:

As you well know, I get on terrifically with my kids but one has to have rules or anarchy reigns. That teenager in England should have gotten a royal kick in the ass and be forced to clean up the mess on her own and then to have any money she has in her own name put towards the repair bill. Perhaps her parents tried to be "friends" with her too and look what happened. Its kids like her who have absolutely no respect for anything that has the world the way it is. Hell if she can't respect her own home, what hope is there she could ever respect anyone or anything else.

Oh and finally, isn't one fairly strict with his own kids??????????????????

Snowbie

Prosperous Dave wrote:

Ha, your kids will ship you off to the looney bin, its called Cavan isn't it? No wait you want to move there yourself :eek:

Heard the sheep and cows are thourghobreds up there.

As you well know, I get on terrifically with my kids but one has to have rules or anarchy reigns.That teenager in England should have gotten a royal kick in the ass and be forced to clean up the mess on her own and then to have any money she has in her own name put towards the repair bill. Perhaps her parents tried to be "friends" with her too and look what happened. Its kids like her who have absolutely no respect for anything that has the world the way it is. Hell if she can't respect her own home, what hope is there she could ever respect anyone or anything else.

Whats done is done and unfortunate and expensive as it was,one would have learned from this.I dont think a repeat of this would happen again.But help her not reject her after an obvious punishment.

Oh and finally, isn't one fairly strict with his own kids??????????????????

Only when they call me da instead of dad.

Kashkai

Snowbie wrote:

Only when they call me da instead of dad.

You should hear what they call you behind your back

As for the eejit who threw the party, why would you have sympathy for her when her guests urinated on the mother's wedding dress, ripped light fittings out of the ceilings and generally thrashed the place. This wasn't simply a case of spilled beer on the carpet but gross vandalism while that teenage idiot did nothing to stop these vandals wrecking the house. At the very least she could have called the cops/other family members.

If you worked hard to buy and furnish your house and some idiot child then proceeds to let the place get destroyed, then you would be very p!ssed - I know you would!!!!!!!

Snowbie

I truly sympathise with the parents.Not only has their house has been turned upside down but so has their 17yr old.Yes she was wrong what she done advertising on the net(maybe she probably not using the net that long and did'nt understand the consquences it can have) but no one knows if a 200 strong mob was what she intended turning up,maybe she black out on two bottles of bacardi breezers and was left unconscience and the carnage began.Or would she have been in on the act herself?Only her and her intended friends could only answer this.

Nevertheless its something she has to live with for the rest of her life and the mental scars left on the unfortunate parents shoulders.
IMO this was meant to be a simple party that went way OTT and out of hand.She still has to face the repurcusions though and regain the parents trust which could take awhile.

loismustdie

i'm 23 and although i did my fair share of smoking, drinking, lying and even drugs when younger obviously against my parents wishes i NEVER brought more than one person at a time into my parents house when they were away because i respected them and their house too much. i saw my parents work hard to buy nice furniture and spend their day off from work cleaning windows and the like so would never jeopradize that.

this girl obviously doesn't deserve the comfort of living at home once she's 18, net should be taken away and jobs to pay for damage in the meantime. parents need to have a good talk to her

Selphie

I'm eighteen. My mother would hit the roof. She's always been lenient with me, she's quite young, so we get along like friends, but my God she'd be arranging my funeral.

I love the bit where it says, "I haven't forgiven her as yet..." Forgiven her? For doing that??

RainyDay

Beruthiel wrote:

Mini me would never have done this in the first place. She has a healthy fear of what I would do to her if she did and what's more, she knows I would actually do it. I am not the type of mother you cross.

Could you be more specific about what you actually would do, as this information may help other posters in their parenting?

Kildrought

....fear of what I would do to her if she did and what's more, she knows I would actually do it. I am not the type of mother you cross

I'm with RainyDay - do share.....

greenkittie

I think the 17 year old is an idiot. By that age she should have been able to recognise things getting out of control at the very least when people started pissing over stuff and called the police. I don't think there is much her parents can do to reprimand her but if she has even one brain cell in her head she will realise she really really messed up.

Beruthiel

RainyDay wrote:

Could you be more specific about what you actually would do, as this information may help other posters in their parenting?

Well, she's 19 now. If she had done this at 17, the following would happen:
She would hand over the money she got from the weekend job I would insist she gets.
She would be grounded/this would include no contact with friends and her b/f.
No pocket money.
The keys to the house would be taken off her and she would never be allowed in again while I wasn't there (this one is easy for me as she spends her time between my house and her fathers) Her father would also be informed and I would have him also make sure the grounding stickes in his house too, we get on to the point that he would do this.
Fuses would be taken out of the tv/stereo and nintendo in her room so she could no longer use them.
Her mobile would be taken off her.
Any spare time she would have will be taken up doing house work.

I have always taught her that she is the only one responsible for her own actions.
The cost of the damage done by that 17 year old was £20,000, mini me couldn't pay for that at 17 - but as soon as she got a job after college and had money, I would insist that it's paid back eventually.

All of the above is why it would never happen in my house.
She has way too much to loose. I have never made her life difficult and she does what she wants within house rules, I treat her like a responsible adult so she acts like one.
She's not stupid enough to let anything change that.
At the end of the day it's all down to parenting, that doesn't start at age 17, that starts when they are toddlers, so by the time they get to 17 your work should be done and they should have enough cop on to not do anything that stupid.
She hasn't seen my 'real' temper more than a handful of times in her 19 years, but she remembers the times that she has and she knows me and what I will tolerate, that is enough in itself to keep her on the straight and narrow.

Selphie

Beruthiel wrote:

I have always taught her that she is the only one responsible for her own actions.
The cost of the damage done by that 17 year old was £20,000, mini me couldn't pay for that at 17 - but as soon as she got a job after college and had money, I would insist that it's paid back eventually.

All of the above is why it would never happen in my house.
She has way too much to loose. I have never made her life difficult and she does what she wants within house rules, I treat her like a responsible adult so she acts like one.
She's not stupid enough to let anything change that.
At the end of the day it's all down to parenting, that doesn't start at age 17, that starts when they are toddlers, so by the time they get to 17 your work should be done and they should have enough cop on to not do anything that stupid.
She hasn't seen my 'real' temper more than a handful of times in her 19 years, but she remembers the times that she has and she knows me and what I will tolerate, that is enough in itself to keep her on the straight and narrow.

You remind me of my mama. I don't think I've ever seen her lose her temper completely - that said, it is something I never want to experience. Only difference is - my dad lives in Dublin, so when I was younger that was my threat, "You'll be sent to Dublin!! And you'll have to stay there!"
And since you remind me of my mother, I feel compelled to say (despite the fact that I know nothing about you) that you seem like an excellent parent. Forgive me if this is improper, or impolite or any of those things, I just wanted to say!

RainyDay

Beruthiel wrote:

Well, she's 19 now. If she had done this at 17, the following would happen:
She would hand over the money she got from the weekend job I would insist she gets.
She would be grounded/this would include no contact with friends and her b/f.
No pocket money.
The keys to the house would be taken off her and she would never be allowed in again while I wasn't there (this one is easy for me as she spends her time between my house and her fathers) Her father would also be informed and I would have him also make sure the grounding stickes in his house too, we get on to the point that he would do this.
Fuses would be taken out of the tv/stereo and nintendo in her room so she could no longer use them.
Her mobile would be taken off her.
Any spare time she would have will be taken up doing house work.

I have always taught her that she is the only one responsible for her own actions.
The cost of the damage done by that 17 year old was £20,000, mini me couldn't pay for that at 17 - but as soon as she got a job after college and had money, I would insist that it's paid back eventually.

All of the above is why it would never happen in my house.
She has way too much to loose. I have never made her life difficult and she does what she wants within house rules, I treat her like a responsible adult so she acts like one.
She's not stupid enough to let anything change that.
At the end of the day it's all down to parenting, that doesn't start at age 17, that starts when they are toddlers, so by the time they get to 17 your work should be done and they should have enough cop on to not do anything that stupid.
She hasn't seen my 'real' temper more than a handful of times in her 19 years, but she remembers the times that she has and she knows me and what I will tolerate, that is enough in itself to keep her on the straight and narrow.

Thanks for clarifying, and I'm glad to hear this works for you. Of course, this doesn't work for every child. There are kids who will climb out the bedroom window if grounded. There are kids who will buy/borrow/steal another mobile phone when you confiscate theirs. There are kids who will shoplift to get pocket money if you stop theirs.

I'm not criticising your approach - I just want to point out that one size does not fit all when parenting.

greenkittie

RainyDay wrote:

Thanks for clarifying, and I'm glad to hear this works for you. Of course, this doesn't work for every child. There are kids who will climb out the bedroom window if grounded. There are kids who will buy/borrow/steal another mobile phone when you confiscate theirs. There are kids who will shoplift to get pocket money if you stop theirs.

I'm not criticising your approach - I just want to point out that one size does not fit all when parenting.

This is true, this would never have worked on me, i'm far too strong willed to allow a parent to have placed any kind of restrictions on me. I would have sneaked out of the house and off to my boyfriends and you wouldnt have seen me for at least a couple of weeks untill you were begging me to come home.
Don't know how my own parents would have reacted to this, i never did anything bad that they ever found out about so as a result never found out what their punishment would be.

Nevyn

Well that is why I think you have to start with them and be trict with them when they are very young.
It does depend on the type of child my son just son't do things he knows he is
not allowed do as I have caught him out more then enough times.

My daughter on the other hand at 7 is still on this learning curve and as hard as this battle of wills and wits is I have to keep watching her and catching her and finding were she is hiding biscuits she liberated from the press when she tough no one was looking if I don't break her of this now and impress on her
the fact that I am the one in charge then it will go down hill when she hits her teens.

It sounds rough but you have to keep at it and be inventive even down to
not letting her pick out her own clothes for a week to impress upon her that
there are many many thing in her life I am in charge of and she gets an input
because I choose to let her. Hopefully this done now will prevent me from having to build a tower to lock her in.

nesf

Beruthiel wrote:

Well, she's 19 now. If she had done this at 17, the following would happen:
She would hand over the money she got from the weekend job I would insist she gets.
She would be grounded/this would include no contact with friends and her b/f.
No pocket money.
The keys to the house would be taken off her and she would never be allowed in again while I wasn't there (this one is easy for me as she spends her time between my house and her fathers) Her father would also be informed and I would have him also make sure the grounding stickes in his house too, we get on to the point that he would do this.
Fuses would be taken out of the tv/stereo and nintendo in her room so she could no longer use them.
Her mobile would be taken off her.
Any spare time she would have will be taken up doing house work.

I have always taught her that she is the only one responsible for her own actions.
The cost of the damage done by that 17 year old was £20,000, mini me couldn't pay for that at 17 - but as soon as she got a job after college and had money, I would insist that it's paid back eventually.

All of the above is why it would never happen in my house.
She has way too much to loose. I have never made her life difficult and she does what she wants within house rules, I treat her like a responsible adult so she acts like one.
She's not stupid enough to let anything change that.
At the end of the day it's all down to parenting, that doesn't start at age 17, that starts when they are toddlers, so by the time they get to 17 your work should be done and they should have enough cop on to not do anything that stupid.
She hasn't seen my 'real' temper more than a handful of times in her 19 years, but she remembers the times that she has and she knows me and what I will tolerate, that is enough in itself to keep her on the straight and narrow.

You sound a lot like my parents. I was never in fear of them or scared of them but I always feared what they'd do if I took breaking the rules too far.

Beruthiel

RainyDay wrote:

Thanks for clarifying, and I'm glad to hear this works for you. Of course, this doesn't work for every child. There are kids who will climb out the bedroom window if grounded. There are kids who will buy/borrow/steal another mobile phone when you confiscate theirs. There are kids who will shoplift to get pocket money if you stop theirs.

Because these kids have been brought up without being shown the difference between right and wrong, brought up without respect, brought up with no manners, brought up without ever knowing there are consequences to their actions, dragged up. The approach would indeed have to be different.
However, I can only discuss from my own experience and from my starting point with my own child. To my mind, if you do not put the work into your child from 2 to 12, then you reap what you sow in the following years.


Thanks Selphie

Kildrought

However, I can only discuss from my own experience

Fair enough, we would all say much the same thing.

if you do not put the work into your child from 2 to 12, then you reap what you sow in the following years

But here's where we would differ, there are no guarantees in child rearing; the most devoted, well-balanced and tuned-in of parents can and do find themselves having to cope with situations they never expected to have to handle.

Whilst I am sure you do your best - you can't be sure that you will never have to deal with painful or unpleasant events in regards to your children.

nesf

Kildrought wrote:

But here's where we would differ, there are no guarantees in child rearing; the most devoted, well-balanced and tuned-in of parents can and do find themselves having to cope with situations they never expected to have to handle.

Whilst I am sure you do your best - you can't be sure that you will never have to deal with painful or unpleasant events in regards to your children.

Surely though that's just how parenting works in reality. It's not a zero sum game where just doing it right from 2 to 12 gifted you with a perfectly behaved teen but I doubt Beruthiel was making that exact point. What I read of her post was more about the laying of bad foundations creating further problems during the teens rather that the laying of good foundations preventing any problems during the teens.

looksee

I agree with Beruthiel that its too late to start disciplining kids when they are old enough to be trouble. I know when my kids were small I was criticised on a few occasions for expecting reasonable behaviour from small children. Its not something you achieve by threats and punishment but by unwavering expectation of reasonable behaviour. Its much easier to give in to demands and bad behaviour, and I don't claim I got it right all the time, but in general it worked. There seemed to be an attitude that small children were too cute to discipline, but I think that to expect good manners and reasonable behaviour is an expression of love and caring just as much as games and cuddles. Children need the security of knowing where the boundries are.

If you haven't sorted who is in charge by the time the child is 7, you won't sort it later, and really its not fair to wait that long then try. Even if you do have hiccups of behaviour in their teens, if you have put down good foundations there is a much better chance that they will sort themselves out. And one of the most important factors should be 'do as I do' rather than 'do as I say'.

RainyDay

Beruthiel wrote:

Because these kids have been brought up without being shown the difference between right and wrong, brought up without respect, brought up with no manners, brought up without ever knowing there are consequences to their actions, dragged up.

Too many assumptions here. I recall a Joe Duffy Liveline programme years back with what sounded like absolutely great parents whose kids had turned into absolute nightmares, with violence, drugs, crime etc. One only has to look at recent events in Wexford or Virginia to see what mental illness can do. There are no guarantees.

run_Forrest_run

RainyDay wrote:

The really important question is not 'what would you do' but 'how did we get to this'? It is far too late to be worrying what to do after the fact.

Perhaps the parents just shouldn't have left the girl on her own. Perhaps she should have been dragged along on the trip, or farmed out to a relative, or a maiden aunt should have been moved into the house for the duration of the absence.

here here. I am getting chest pains at the thought of this from my lil girl, OK, she is only 15 months at the moment but still

greenkittie

RainyDay wrote:

Too many assumptions here. I recall a Joe Duffy Liveline programme years back with what sounded like absolutely great parents whose kids had turned into absolute nightmares, with violence, drugs, crime etc. One only has to look at recent events in Wexford or Virginia to see what mental illness can do. There are no guarantees.

True and you have no idea how they are going to be treated when you arn't around in school and that. I know of a case where a boy was abused in school as a child and dispite his parents best efforts at parenting when he got older he was messed up and acted out becuase of this.

nesf

RainyDay wrote:

Too many assumptions here. I recall a Joe Duffy Liveline programme years back with what sounded like absolutely great parents whose kids had turned into absolute nightmares, with violence, drugs, crime etc. One only has to look at recent events in Wexford or Virginia to see what mental illness can do. There are no guarantees.

I remember reading somewhere about a teen's peergroup as having largest influence on their behaviour as they grow older. What their friends do, they'll do or at least for the most part.

Zambia

And heres what happens when you decide to cave just a little and let her have a party

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6598883.stm

nesf

Zambia232 wrote:

And heres what happens when you decide to cave just a little and let her have a party

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6598883.stm

To be honest, if you agree to allow your teenage daughter to have a party for one hundred people in your house you are... Actually I can't find the words to describe that level of naivety.

Nevyn

Yes there are people that despite a good up bringing and all their needs catered to as children still become 'rotten apples'.
Put we never really know why and we as parents do our best despite that possiblity.