Funeral Cermony

raido9

Just a quick question for atheists on this board.

Would you be opposed to a religious funeral cermony when you die?

Seeing as it wouldn't make a difference to you after your gone, and I'm assuming alot of your friends/family would be christian, would it not be better to have a christian cermony?

robindch

raido9 wrote:

Would you be opposed to a religious funeral cermony when you die?

Obviously not when it was happening and I can imagine more than a few people who'd enjoy the idea of me having to sit through a church service and not be able to do anything about it. Legally, I believe that a dead person's wishes for their own funeral can, without prejudice, be ignored, so saying in your will that you want one thing or another is pointless anyway.

But I must say that I'd certainly like to think that any family and friends still around when I depart would enjoy something more personal and more interesting than my 99yo grandfather's experience two years back, when the priest served up a minute's worth of wasn't-he-a-fine-fellow jemmied into ninety minutes of coma-inducing piffle.

Beruthiel

raido9 wrote:

Would you be opposed to a religious funeral cermony when you die?

Yes I would, but it's ok, cos I expect to go before my daughter so it's all sorted as she has her instructions, though she might have some trouble organising a viking funeral.

MrB

Reminds me of a line in an episode of Drawn Together
(from memory)
“We are here to bury her as a Mormon, not because she was a Mormon but because she hated Mormons and it would make her happy for us to bury one”
Of course that show is terribly low-brow and un-PC and I would never recommend that anyone who posts here watch it!!

Dave!

Yeah I would.

5uspect

Well I'd never know, but if a friend who was clearly an atheist died and wanted a non-religious funeral then I would be upset that their wished were ignored.

Zillah

Every one of my friends and family know my position on religion in general. Most of them would deem giving me a religious ceremony as innapropriate as throwing a Nazi themed funeral.

Right now I want my funeral to be something secular, but it won't matter once I'm dead.

Scofflaw

Zillah wrote:

Every one of my friends and family know my position on religion in general. Most of them would deem giving me a religious ceremony as innapropriate as throwing a Nazi themed funeral.

Right now I want my funeral to be something secular, but it won't matter once I'm dead.

That's the most important point. Atheist funerals (who else here has been to one?) are a great pleasure to atheists - living atheists, that is. The one in the coffin is past caring.

I think if those close to me were theists, I would allow them to give me a religious send-off. Fortunately, the question doesn't arise at the moment.

cordially,
Scofflaw

5uspect

There can be a big difference between what many may see as a traditional funeral and a religious funeral. I'm sure most nonreligious people would like traditional weddings, funerals etc, even baptism purely for their social benefits.

Tim Robbins

raido9 wrote:

Just a quick question for atheists on this board.

Would you be opposed to a religious funeral cermony when you die?

Seeing as it wouldn't make a difference to you after your gone, and I'm assuming alot of your friends/family would be christian, would it not be better to have a christian cermony?

No religious ceremony for me please. I would like to have some techno classics from the mid 90's era played along with a video of Colin McGinn (or any decent philsopher) played, along with an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm or some scenes from Cable Guy.
Are you listening Mum, Dad, anybody?

Schuhart

I've no strong opinions on the ceremony. My family can do whatever they feel suits their needs.

Zombrex

They can cut me open and march me up and down O'Connell St for all I care. I will be dead, I won't mind.
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actually that's not a bad idea ...

Dades

If I knew I was going to die, say, of a terminal disease, I'd spend a while making a showreel to be shown at my inevitable church funeral. It would begin something like:

"As most of you know, I lived and died - a complete atheist..."

Scofflaw

The Atheist wrote:

If I knew I was going to die, say, of a terminal disease, I'd spend a while making a showreel to be shown at my inevitable church funeral. It would begin something like:

"As most of you know, I lived and died - a complete atheist..."

Roughly the opening words to my father's oration for his mother. They're very good words, but 'atheist' is starker alone - the 'complete' weakens it, I think.

cordially,
Scofflaw

NotMe

I don't care what they do with me. I quite like the idea of the old-fashioned wake with alcohol and music.... or maybe a cremation with after-party I know if I died tomorrow my parents would give me a Christian funeral. It's not a problem if it would make them happy.

Asiaprod

I remember we had this debate before. As before, I will stick with having my ashes cast to the wind in the direction of Ireland; I have a date with Zillah and it involves a sneeze:D

5uspect

5uspect wrote:

There can be a big difference between what many may see as a traditional funeral and a religious funeral. I'm sure most nonreligious people would like traditional weddings, funerals etc, even baptism purely for their social benefits.

I wouldn't... if I get married it'll be in a reg office, no matter how much of a fuss the family kicks up...
as for a funeral well I want a cremation and no religion whatsoever. I know I'll be dead but just for the principle of the thing.

Tigrrrr

Why a cremation as opposed to any other option (compost heap/ burial/ get chucked into a slurry tank)? Just out of interest...

Tigrrrr

Tigrrrr wrote:

Why a cremation as opposed to any other option (compost heap/ burial/ get chucked into a slurry tank)? Just out of interest...

Oh. I don't really know right now. I'm sure I had a reason back when I decided.
I guess I don't see the point in having a rotting corpse sitting in a box for years... it's not that much more helpful for remembering someone.

DinoBot

bluewolf wrote:

I wouldn't... if I get married it'll be in a reg office, no matter how much of a fuss the family kicks up...
as for a funeral well I want a cremation and no religion whatsoever. I know I'll be dead but just for the principle of the thing.

I agree with bluewolf on that one. I went as far to say there should be no public praying at my funeral. My wife just hope she goes first, less hassle

I had been thinking about the normal 'body-in-the-ground' thing but recently Ive been moving toward cremation. Mainly because I dont want to "become" a grave.

What I mean by this is that the people I know who have had loved ones die go to the grave for many years and the person they once loved "becomes" the grave. People talk and say stuff like "did you go to see ma today, its her birthday"-- referring to the grave ! :eek:

The thoughts of my children seeing me as a grave is not pleasing. In and of itself its probably not a big deal and if it helps them along it might be good. But its not true, I will not be in the grave.

But this is a new concept for me, and as you know our culture is very much about having a grave so Im not sure what type of impact a cremation might have.

Has anyone experience with this ?

5uspect

bluewolf wrote:

I wouldn't... if I get married it'll be in a reg office, no matter how much of a fuss the family kicks up...
as for a funeral well I want a cremation and no religion whatsoever. I know I'll be dead but just for the principle of the thing.

I wouldn't either, I'd imagine most of the atheists here wouldn't too, its just that I'd imagine that most people (i.e. those who apparently know nothing about religion etc who don't post on this forum) would like the traditional thing.

Actually I wouldn't be too interested in a registry office either. Isn't there plans to change the laws to allow weddings etc be held in novel places?

5uspect

5uspect wrote:

I wouldn't either, I'd imagine most of the atheists here wouldn't too, its just that I'd imagine that most people (i.e. those who apparently know nothing about religion etc who don't post on this forum) would like the traditional thing.

Actually I wouldn't be too interested in a registry office either. Isn't there plans to change the laws to allow weddings etc be held in novel places?

I thought they already could, or is that anywhere but Ireland?
I wouldn't mind outside somewhere actually. I just meant if it was church vs reg office.

Zombrex

The Atheist wrote:

If I knew I was going to die, say, of a terminal disease, I'd spend a while making a showreel to be shown at my inevitable church funeral. It would begin something like:

"As most of you know, I lived and died - a complete atheist..."

I want "I told you I was ill" but I think that is taken already




Interestingly when I was checking I had the quote right I found from Spike Milligan's wikipedia page that the family had to get the quote put in Irish ("Dúirt mé leat go raibh mé breoite") because the diocese refused to let it be put in English .... more nonsense :rolleyes:

Scofflaw

bluewolf wrote:

I thought they already could, or is that anywhere but Ireland?
I wouldn't mind outside somewhere actually. I just meant if it was church vs reg office.

It's still basically church or registry office here:

"Marriages by Civil ceremony must take place in the Office of a Registrar of Marriages, except in very exceptional case of illness on the part of one of the parties, when the Registrar-General has power to grant a special licence for the marriage to be conducted elsewhere."

On the other hand, there's no need to make a big fuss of the registry office bit. It can be really very like a bit of bureaucracy, just with an oath sworn that requires witnesses. Think of it as the "registration" of the marriage with the government - and then do whatever you like as far as family and friends are concerned (get married in a garden, for example, which is what we did).

cordially,
Scofflaw

5uspect

bluewolf wrote:

I thought they already could, or is that anywhere but Ireland?
I wouldn't mind outside somewhere actually. I just meant if it was church vs reg office.

I remember hearing about the law being changed alright but I can't remember if it was actually changed in the end. They had a spot on the news about being able to get hitched in an inflatable bouncy church!

magicbastarder

your funeral is not for you. your funeral is for the mourners. let them decide.

Scofflaw

DinoBot wrote:

I agree with bluewolf on that one. I went as far to say there should be no public praying at my funeral. My wife just hope she goes first, less hassle

I had been thinking about the normal 'body-in-the-ground' thing but recently Ive been moving toward cremation. Mainly because I dont want to "become" a grave.

What I mean by this is that the people I know who have had loved ones die go to the grave for many years and the person they once loved "becomes" the grave. People talk and say stuff like "did you go to see ma today, its her birthday"-- referring to the grave ! :eek:

The thoughts of my children seeing me as a grave is not pleasing. In and of itself its probably not a big deal and if it helps them along it might be good. But its not true, I will not be in the grave.

But this is a new concept for me, and as you know our culture is very much about having a grave so Im not sure what type of impact a cremation might have.

Has anyone experience with this ?

Unsurprisingly, yes! One side of my family have no graves in the last three generations (with the exception of my great grandfather, who was killed in WWI - although even he's just "buried near this spot" on account of it being an artillery attack that killed him).

Ashes are usually disposed of (we dropped my great-aunt into the Thames in a Fortnum & Mason's bag, for example) reasonably soon after.

I find that while the dead are certainly remembered, they don't "become graves", as you put it (good phrase!). I'll be going that way myself.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Dades

Older thread here in case the OP is interested:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054903995

Zillah

Asiaprod wrote:

I remember we had this debate before. As before, I will stick with having my ashes cast to the wind in the direction of Ireland; I have a date with Zillah and it involves a sneeze:D

Oh yeah

Tigrrrr wrote:

Why a cremation as opposed to any other option (compost heap/ burial/ get chucked into a slurry tank)? Just out of interest...

Nice, clean and dignified end. Embalming + burial is a creepy Christian tradition that I want no part of. I hate the idea of my body slowly dissolving, and as DinoBot explained well, the whole "grave becomes the person" thing is not something I want a part of. When I die I want to vanish, not leave weird lingering bits that people still associate with me. Thats not to say remembering the dead is a bad thing, its quite nice, but associating them with a random spot in a graveyard just cos their corpse ended up there is very silly in my opinion.

humanji

I'd like to be buried just on the off chance that I can be either ressurected or come back as a zombie. I'd like that.

Personally, I want my death to be a cheerful affair. It always amazes me that catholic funerals are always so dismal and depressing when the person is supposedly going off to paradise. Shouldn't everyone be happy for them? It's us athiests and agnostics who won't be seeing them again. I want people celebrating the life I lead and to be thinking about the good times. Otherwise it'd really piss me off (if I was somehow still alive that is).

Crucifix

If I die suddenly I don't care. If I know I'm dieing though, I'd like to think my wishes would be honoured. They don't have to honour them, I'd just like to think they're going to.

stakey

always wanted to be cremated, however i've been playing with the idea lately of having my body rigged to sit up just as i go into the cremation unit just to freak my grandchildren out... hehe

but honestly i think it's a great disrespect to a person to not observe there wants. i'd also like to think that people missed me a little more than going to a one hour service to listen to some mental old fool babble religion at them over my corpse... the idea really makes me feel uncomfortable tbh...

Scofflaw

Scofflaw wrote:

On the other hand, there's no need to make a big fuss of the registry office bit. It can be really very like a bit of bureaucracy, just with an oath sworn that requires witnesses. Think of it as the "registration" of the marriage with the government - and then do whatever you like as far as family and friends are concerned (get married in a garden, for example, which is what we did).

cordially,
Scofflaw

Sounds good, wouldn't mind that.
But that's an if, as I always say-my grandmother asking me when I'm going to get married is becoming a little irritating. But I suppose that's what they always ask...

Obo

I've thought about this a bit recently as my sister had died at the start of the year and we had to do a bit of juggling in regards to peoples views for the service.

My sister, brother and myself were never christened despite pressure on our parents from elsewhere in the family. Our parents wanted us to be able to make up our own minds in regards to religion when we were old enough to think about such things (what I consider one of the best things they've ever done for me). But I always remember being secretly taken into churches and being made to say prayers at bedtime at a young age, by my grandmother when she had the opportunity to exert her influence.

When my brother had died at a young age my mother was too distraught at the time to focus on the arrangements, so she was manoeuvred into the full catholic deal, something she didn't really appreciate afterwards.

When it came time for my sisters funeral, although we didn't have anything actually organised, we were a bit more prepared for it (it was a long time coming).
My sister didn't really have any wishes for a service. She had learning difficulties and the subject of her impending death was best left alone. But at some point she had made it clear that she didn't want to be cremated. So other than that it was up to us.
My mother and I were pretty agreed that we didn't want a church service and all associated religious trappings, specifically not a replay of my brothers, but the trouble was finding a venue that would hold over 200 people and was nice enough to be respectful; not some dingy hall.

But we actually ended up in a church. My mothers friend knew the rector of a small local Church of Ireland church who was willing to allow us to do our own thing; he was more than happy to see the place full and as churches go it was a nice place.
We did have some small religious bits, to appease others (we're the ones who have to live on with them ), and besides although my sister wasn't religious she was accepting of others, as long as it wasn't forced on her (the nuns in the hospital used to get some looks when they tried to come into her room ), so it was fitting.
The rector led the proceedings so we agreed for him to say his bit, someone from the family did a 'small' reading suggested by the rector, and one hymn. The rest was our own music played by my sisters music tutors, and three personal 'tribute' speeches, which I gave the last of. I wrote it so that it gave a subtle but deliberate non-religious, humanist view on life and death, which was well received by all, even the grandmother. Maybe I got through to a few .

At the grave we simply got someone from the family to ask if anyone wanted to say something then they could come forward. A few came up and said their bit and then that was that.

So it all worked itself out.

Looking at a lot of the other graves and headstones it put to rest any doubts I may have had about not being buried. Everyone trying to outdo their neighbour by having the biggest cross or statue on their headstone really put me off the whole burial thing. Don't want to be taking up space among all that rubbish.
One near my sisters has greyhounds running around the top!

So it's cremation for me! And somehow having the ashes cast into a brick that could be used to build something practical seems appealing. Don't particularly feel like getting dumped somewhere and end up clogging up someone's lungs.

But by the time I die I fully expect to be able to download myself into a robot and then jump on a ship headed for Alpha Centauri!

Dades

Nice post, Obo.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with us, and sorry to hear of the losses you've had.

Getting sent into space sounds like a great idea BTW.

Zillah

The Atheist wrote:

Getting sent into space sounds like a great idea BTW.

Yeah I liked that too until I discovered that all these trendy "space burials" actually just send you on a jaunt for a few years and then it all falls back to earth.

Wusses wouldn't shell out for enough fuel to escape Earth's gravity.

Dades

Zillah wrote:

Yeah I liked that too until I discovered that all these trendy "space burials" actually just send you on a jaunt for a few years and then it all falls back to earth.

That just sounds like a pricy cremation.

You need to at least get out of the solar system if you're going to bump into a super-race who can resuscitate you.

Zillah

The Atheist wrote:

You need to at least get out of the solar system if you're going to bump into a super-race who can resuscitate you.

From ashes? Thats some impressive....God-like...technology that race has

I suppose if they had some device that can see back in time they could reconstruct your body by observing it from the future...

the_syco

Beruthiel wrote:

though she might have some trouble organising a viking funeral.

Well, if you buy the boat yourself, put it near a lake, it should be easy enough to get. Although whats the point, unless you plan to go down killing people. After all, warrios dying in their beds don't get into Valhalla, I don't think.

=-=

Meh. Putting my ass on a rocket (uncremated) and firing me into either the sun or a big bad-ass black hole appeals to me. Other than that, a burning Viking type ship sailing into the Burmuda triangle would be nice (confuse the aliens).

Scofflaw

I rather like the idea of being compressed into a diamond (yes, there's a company that does it). My daughter could have me as an earring that way.

weirdly,
Scofflaw

NotMe

Scofflaw wrote:

I rather like the idea of being compressed into a diamond (yes, there's a company that does it). My daughter could have me as an earring that way.

weirdly,
Scofflaw

Haha wow! That's pretty cool... and just a little creepy.

Imagine a family all doing that down through the years and having a necklace made up of all the ancestors

Scofflaw

NotMe wrote:

Haha wow! That's pretty cool... and just a little creepy.

Imagine a family all doing that down through the years and having a necklace made up of all the ancestors

Yup. I liked that idea too...

cordially,
Scofflaw

Zillah

Heh, nifty and creepy.

Scofflaw

Zillah wrote:

Heh, nifty and creepy.

One does one's best...

cordially,
Scofflaw

toiletduck

Beruthiel wrote:

Yes I would, but it's ok, cos I expect to go before my daughter so it's all sorted as she has her instructions, though she might have some trouble organising a viking funeral.

That's what I want aswell!

Asiaprod

Zillah wrote:

Heh, nifty and creepy.

Thats a cool idea, maybe my wife will finaly get that diamond I have been promising her.

Scofflaw

The only problem with the diamond idea is - well, let me put it like this: send your loved one's ashes to me, and after a long (and of course secret) process, I will return you one small diamond. Any takers?

fraudulently,
Scofflaw

matrim

I wouldn't want a church funeral, but only because I normally find them depressing and fake. I don't want some guy who didn't know me, saying what a loss it is, how I was a gool person, etc.
However, a friend of mine died a couple of years and an uncle of her's was a priest. Because he knew her, it gave a very personal feel to the funeral which was nice. So if I could get something like that I wouldn't mind.

The only thing I have said to people is that I want my body or ashes (I'd perfer my body but don't know the legalities) to be buried in the forest at the bottom of my parents farm without a coffin. Then I'd like an oak planted above it.
As with most people here I don't believe in an afterlife but like the idea that my last act is to help something like an oak grow.

RainyDay

I attended a church funeral recently of a 90-year-old gentleman where one of the family gave a 10-15 talk on the story of his life, with other family members bringing momentos and symbols of his life. It was really nicely done, and gave many of the attendees a bit of background to the deceased. I guess many of the attendees would have been present to show support for one of the family members, rather than because they knew the man himself. It was really nicely done, and showed to me that church funerals are not necessarily a bad thing.

For me, I wouldn't want to darken the door of a church. A nice family get-together at somewhere like Airfield House would be ideal, followed by a sprinkling of ashes on the top of Three Rock Mountain (though my missus reckons she'd never complete the hike up to the top). I have my iTunes playlist for my funeral songs shortened down to 14 songs (1.1 hours - Tom Waits, Nick Cave, Johnny Cash, U2, REM) though my workmates assured me that there is no way they'll be hanging round for all that. I'll have to leave instructions to hold the food until all the music is complete.

maitri

Beruthiel wrote:

though she might have some trouble organising a viking funeral.

Oh, it's not all that difficult. Just give her this link: http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ibn_fdln.shtml#Risala and make her scroll down and follow the easy instructions from §87. (And if you prefere to be buried with one of your male slaves ("treller") instead of that poor slave girl, just leave a note about it.)

Asiaprod

Scofflaw wrote:

The only problem with the diamond idea is - well, let me put it like this: send your loved one's ashes to me, and after a long (and of course secret) process, I will return you one small diamond. Any takers?

Good idea of yours, but now you have competition:

Carbon Copies (US)
Now you can have Pencils made from the carbon of human cremains. 240 pencils can be made from an average body of ash - a lifetime supply of pencils for those left behind.






This is for real:eek: