Kids wasting more than just their youth

fabsoul

from the Irish Independent, about irish open.

http://www.unison.ie/sportsdesk/stories.php3?ca=19&si=1808801

shoutman

if someone could copy and paste this that would be great.

delanec8

Any chance you could paste it?

Was it in today's paper. Cant find it

David Michael

shoutman wrote:

if someone could copy and paste this that would be great.

As Requested....

Billy Keane wrote:

...

YOU'D wonder if there's any point in sending the kids to school at all. Way back when I was but a pup and Bertie was only in power a short time, we were told we should study hard, but never to neglect our football.

Cynics barked we would "never make a shilling out of that oul' GAA", but we played all the same. Now, though, there's certain to be money for inter-county players courtesy of John O'Donoghue. Let no man question his lifetime love of the GAA.

There was always money to be made from wagering on darts, snooker and poker. But that was pennies.

Now the world darts champs are paid thousands in subsistence for their big fat bellies while the slave who got 11 honours in nine subjects in his Leaving is that busy paying off the mortgage, the credit cards and the loan on the car he spends most of his life in that he is reduced to drinking bottles of supermarket Chateau Kazakhstan in his slippers, at home.

Now it seems a proficiency at medicine is a sign of a mis-spent youth.

Snooker players get to wear a suit every time they go to work and the jockeys who left for England in diapers are the only ones who can compete financially with the builders who crossed the pond with a tenner, a rosary beads and a hot water bottle from the mother.

Roy Keane had no interest in school either, yet he sends me home a few pounds every week.

Roy would have often heard the line from the old Cork song 'there are different kinds of knowledge from the Courthouse to the College'. Yes, it's better kids if you study. You can't get enough of education, but many of the smartest people I know graduated from the university of hard knocks.

Now there's a new online school for the kids. A poker school.

Did we ever think we would see the day when poker would be regarded as a sport? It's only a matter of time before we have the Irish Pitch and Toss Masters.

Bookmaking firm Paddy Power is sponsoring the Irish Poker Open this weekend.

If a barman serves an under-18 in the honest belief he or she is overage, then the publican is guilty. It's called strict liability.

Big boys

I have no bother with the people playing in the Poker Open. They are all big boys and girls who know the game and everything is out in the open.

But little Johnny can gamble away to his heart's content in private and loads of little Johnnies will get into the online gaming after catching the bug from watching the Irish Open.

Online gaming is largely unsupervised. You would hardly expect the gambling firms to send a croupier round to all the houses of those gambling online just to check if kids are wagering.

RTE is showing much of the poker early in the morning. Promos were run during teen viewing time. And guess who will be watching this morning while the parents are in bed having their own bit of fun?

You might gather from the foregoing I see nothing wrong with responsible adults having a good time.

There's something noble, brave and skilful about horseracing and it's fun with large slices of skill involved in picking a winner, but gambling for the sake of it is like drinking to get drunk.

Paddy Power, in fairness, is very strict about underage gambling in their shops, but I have never heard of a conviction for underage online gambling. My local Paddy Power is very well run and I have seen drunks and kids ejected, but there is no breathalyser or ID check on a PC.

Let me stress too that Paddy Power is a hugely successful Irish firm and has taken on and beaten the big cross-channel outfits, all of them involved in online gaming. As a public company it has a duty to its shareholders to maximise profits. But at what cost?

We have the makings of an epidemic on our hands.

Online gambling is now Ireland's largest cottage industry. We urgently need to ascertain the extent of the problem.The online gaming companies will not give you a reply because they do not know the answers. Neither does the Government.

QED.

Billy Keane.

phantom_lord

obviously written by a clueless hack. I wonder what ppp did to piss off the indo

Is he not completely wrong? It's tough to sign up for a real money account! Need ID and proof of address and all that malark.

Seems like a really poorly researched article..

sikes

that paper has gone downhill at a rapid rate in recent years. I don't even read it anymore. It has a makings of an interesting piece, but thats the most airy fairy bull crap I have read from them and I cant believed it's actually being printed.

Are you sure its not a piece written for some secondary school paper?

Mellor

What a crock of sh1t.
He doesn't mention to in order to open up an online account a method of depositing is needed. No under 18s have credit cards. If they blow the bank, its their parents faut

Wreck

This kind of shoddy (almost sensationalist) journalism is appalling from a paper like the indo - but its hardly surprising considering Kevin Myers is one of their highest profile and most well paid journos.

ditpoker

did he just compare the skill of picking a winning horse to poker... pi$$ off billy keane!

valor

lol

shoutman

Will I know what I will be doing tommorrow, writing a response to that dribble and sending it off to that shower of "journalists" who write for that tabloid.

ambman

i tried to sign up for skypoker and because i didnt live in england they want 3 forms of id. ie driving lincense, passport and a utility bill. in the end couldnt be bothered with the hassle. but it is far from easy to sign up for a real money account. wonder if this halfwit tried himself before writing that load of crap

Wisesmurf

What a tool. A piece of lazy, poorly written, poorly researched journalism.

This is typical of a synical non-gambler/poker player and a paper that have pages to fill. The bank holiday weekend is a slow news weekend typically and stories like this with little fact behind them always appear.

Do Bulmers or Guinness ads make kids go drinking?

Rant over,
Wisesmurf.

BigDragon

Fuktard

Boston

I don't know anything about on-line poker, and even i would pause for thought about how yer meant to play the game without a credit card. Sounds like someone commissioned the piece.

Hitman Actual

David Michael wrote:

QED.

What the fcuk is the QED comment for at the end? What was proved? That he's an idiot?

I actually quite like the Indo, but this guy shouldn't even be let write for the Beano.

Ste05

David Michael wrote:

There's something noble, brave and skilful about horseracing and it's fun with large slices of skill involved in picking a winner, but gambling for the sake of it is like drinking to get drunk.

That is one of the worst pieces of journalism I think I've ever read, besides the obvious lack of research this part probably annoyed me more than anything else. I would be willing to bet that a HUGE proportion of Problem Gamblers use Bookies and Horse racing as their tipple of choice. And this idiot is saying that it's noble, brave and skillful!!!! :eek: :eek:

Think of the work, research etc. that goes into knowing enough to become a skillful Horse picker. If anything I'd say most people use the Horses as gambling for the sake of gambling, not Poker!!! It would certainly take about 100 times the work to become a winning Horse racing punter compared to what it requires to become a winning Poker player.

As an aside, I also think that while playing Poker, you can't help but learn a little as you lose, whereas losing at Horse Racing you learn nothing except possibly BR management. Other than that exactly what is to be learned by betting on Horses that will help you in future picks??

patmac

I have to say I usually enjoy reading Billy Keane(son of John can be very funny at times, but not this time. He's also a publican so no point in Poker Events calling there then.

Ste05

patmac wrote:

Billy Keane(son of John

:eek: I would say his father is turning in his grave with this utter tripe. The lack of research is unfathomable from someone with this kind of pedigree....

RoundTower

In fairness it's pretty easy for an underage kid to gamble online, I know several who do and I don't have much of a problem with it.

An Gaiscíoch

OOOHHH I can't wait for work in the morning! See what my fellow PP workers have to say about this!!! We have a strict security procedure in place for all online accounts. This boyo hasn't done his homework. I have a journalism background and this isn't good.

Ste05

RoundTower wrote:

In fairness it's pretty easy for an underage kid to gamble online.

With who's money??

bohsman

Agreed, its easy to set up an account with PPP/Laddies and walk into the shop and deposit cash, also ukash vouchers on a lot of sites.

And yes of course guiness etc advertising is going to get kids drinking their products.

You might gather from the foregoing I see nothing wrong with responsible adults having a good time.

Actually, William, i gather quite the opposite from your poxy, ill-informed, sensationalist pice of journo-babble. Your paper is a rag. You are a sap. Go home and tell your mother to get married.

patmac

Yeah the more you think about it the more annoying it is I mean he is a publican, so I bet there's never been any underage drinking, gambling or smoking after hours or people driving home drunk from his pub in Listowel, kettle pot black etc.

Wisesmurf

Ste05 wrote:

:eek: I would say his father is turning in his grave with this utter tripe. The lack of research is unfathomable from someone with this kind of pedigree....

In keeping with the the theme of article, unfortunately pedigree in writing skills is not similar to that of quality horses...

An Gaiscíoch

RoundTower wrote:

In fairness it's pretty easy for an underage kid to gamble online, I know several who do and I don't have much of a problem with it.

Yeah but the only way they can do it with a credit/debit card is if it is their parent/siblings give them their card and if they allow them to set up the account in their name. In that situation do you still put PP or any other nline company in the wrong?

David Michael

He was not far off the mark with the "there is no breathalyser or ID check on a PC"

Other than that a very, very badly written piece. It came across rather "bitter"

Did one of you lot take his bank roll or slow roll him?

Hitman Actual

RoundTower wrote:

In fairness it's pretty easy for an underage kid to gamble online, I know several who do and I don't have much of a problem with it.

Fair enough, but would you say we have "the makings of an epidemic on our hands"?

Ste05

Wisesmurf wrote:

In keeping with the the theme of article, unfortunately pedigree in writing skills is not similar to that of quality horses...

Very nice...

AdMMM

Fair enough, but would you say we have "the makings of an epidemic on our hands"?

I'm pretty sure that he had the makings of a deadline on his hands though

An Gaiscíoch

ok, from all the responses the general consensus sems to be the same. However, we as a group are "informed". How do you think the piece will be taken by any mother/father/joe soap off the street? Damaging to our game?

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

phantom_lord

lol sensationalistaments.

Wisesmurf

An Gaisc&#237 wrote: »

ok, from all the responses the general consensus sems to be the same. However, we as a group are "informed". How do you think the piece will be taken by any mother/father/joe soap off the street? Damaging to our game?

In a word, no. We are a culture of gamblers. The game is safe, for now.

hotspur

My response to that awful piece was the same as the rest of you and it annoyed me. But then having read the reponses I went back and reread it to see what specifically he wrote that was factually incorrect, and um, I didn't find anything.

Don't get me wrong it's a lousy piece of journalism, but he didn't say anything that was wrong. Let's not pretend it's hard to set up a poker account online, I have one everywhere and never once was asked to provide ID prior to depositing and playing, and yes that includes Paddy Power.

You know what, he was right when he said: "We urgently need to ascertain the extent of the problem" in this country, and [looks around to make sure no non-poker playering hysterical mothers are listening] Western society already has developed a problem gambling epidemic this decade.

Now there are a million better ways of putting it than he did, but it was only bad jounalism, he wasn't actually wrong.

AdMMM

I think most people who read that would realise that it is very weak factually. Most parents would wait until such scare stories reached TV before taking any drastic action such as protests.

PiperT

hotspur wrote:

Let's not pretend it's hard to set up a poker account online, I have one everywhere and never once was asked to provide ID prior to depositing and playing, and yes that includes Paddy Power.

OK, did you use a credit/debit card ? - If so, you would have had to provide ID to the financial institution in the first instance. You cannot get a credit card without providing the required documents and/or if you are under 18.

If you are using somebody elses credit card then I would presume the cashout would be directly to their card or the cheque would be sent to the cardholders home address.

If underage players are playing online I would suggest they are a significant minority of the broader poker playing population.

I play poker and I also like a flutter on the horses and dogs. I usually bring my daughter for the fun and excitement and yes, the wonderful state owned entity known as the "Tote" will accept bets over the counter from nine year old children. Go to harolds cross, shelbourne park, fairyhouse, leopardstown e.t.c. e.t.c. and you will see it all the time. And in my humble opinion theres nothing wrong with it if its all in the interest of fun.

This is not journalism. He's just latched on to this and jumped in with two feet.

phantom_lord

PiperT wrote:

....and yes, the wonderful state owned entity known as the "Tote" will accept bets over the counter from nine year old children. .

it was them that put me on the road the degeneracy!


a pound place here and there, next thing you know you're doing in the roll on Punto Banko!

RoundTower

lenny_leonard wrote:

Fair enough, but would you say we have "the makings of an epidemic on our hands"?

no of course not. We have epidemics of kids drinking smoking doing drugs playing pool not doing their homework watching too much TV bullying other kids bunking off school eating sweets playing violent video games and drinking fizzy drinks. You've read similar badly written rants on all of the above. Compared to these harmful activities a little game of cards is pretty harmless.

There's nothing wrong with writing an article on kids gambling. This is shoddy journalism because he didn't do any research. He didn't interview kids who gamble online. If there's really an epidemic they can't be too hard to find. He didn't find out how hard it is to deposit money into an online gambling account. He didn't do any research into the skill involved in poker compared to horse betting. He thinks online gambling is "Ireland's largest cottage industry". In fact besides the occasional small operator like GJP the market is dominated by firms worth a billion dollars plus: Paddy Power, Pokerstars, Party Gaming, etc.

Or just as likely, he did do a little bit of research and it didn't support his point of view so he left it out. After all, no one really cares how well informed the messenger is when he has a very clear message that YOUR KIDS ARE IN DANGER.

Shortstack

Just to add that you cat get money online to GJP with a Ukash voucher without age verification. The same applies to Electron cards that kids in the UK can get at 16 and use the Visa system.

Wisesmurf

[QUOTE=After all, no one really cares how well informed the messenger is when he has a very clear message that YOUR KIDS ARE IN DANGER.[/QUOTE]

Hmm.

Poker is not new, online poker is not new, gambling is not new. Kids are in no more danger now then they were 5 or 10 years ago. I'd suggest that some of the posters here are the kids/teens of 10 years ago, were you in danger?

Kids have no viable way of sustaining an online poker account in my experience. Can’t get a credit/debit card, a netteller account or moneybookers account. Where I work we don’t accept cards/ payment methods that have no guarantee of age i.e. ukash, 3v, some English debit cards.

Of course if a kid wants to play online they will find a way. Poker operators can only be reactive towards banning kids because of this. Where there is any doubt we'll ask for age ID.

The industry as a whole in my opinion is responsible with regards to the issue of kids playing. The industry is under enough scrutiny in general to add this as an issue. Of course some will always slip through the net but it’s by no means an epidemic.

Id view a school kid playing 60hrs of World Of Warcraft a week as more of a logical epidemic than poker.

Wisesmurf

dupe post.

ditpoker

Shortstack wrote:

Just to add that you cat get money online to GJP with a Ukash voucher without age verification.

damn... there goes my "sorry mike, i cant play on your network cos I have no credit card" excuse... ah well...

RoundTower

Wisesmurf wrote:

Kids have no viable way of sustaining an online poker account in my experience. Can’t get a credit/debit card, a netteller account or moneybookers account. Where I work we don’t accept cards/ payment methods that have no guarantee of age i.e. ukash, 3v, some English debit cards.

Of course if a kid wants to play online they will find a way. Poker operators can only be reactive towards banning kids because of this. Where there is any doubt we'll ask for age ID.

Well I don't want to spell it out to all you endangered kids out there but as an experiment I just opened an account on PokerStars and funded it to the tune of $100. I played a few hands and entered a tournament but Stars haven't asked me for ID.

Wisesmurf

stars will presumably check the name and address on your card correlates to that of your account. Of course you'll now argue that little johnny will take their mothers card but isnt that the same as johnny taking moms cigarettes, alcahol, drugs, WMD's....

Lafortezza

Anyone know if this guy has an email address?
Be interesting to invite him on here for some abuse/reasoned discussion.

phantom_lord

indo email:

To send a letter to the editor: independent.letters@independent.ie

For all general enquiries and requests for information: info@independent.ie

delanec8

If you don't want your kid playing online poker then you don't let them. Its not like alcohol where they can get someone to buy drink for them and drink in a field. Kids are hardly getting laptops and bringing them to wifi areas, where their parents won't find them, to play online poker. Its a lot easier for parents to monitor this "epidemic" than it is others.

RoundTower

Wisesmurf wrote:

stars will presumably check the name and address on your card correlates to that of your account. Of course you'll now argue that little johnny will take their mothers card but isnt that the same as johnny taking moms cigarettes, alcahol, drugs, WMD's....

I would have said kids losing their own money is OK, they generally shouldn't be given money they can't afford to lose. Losing Mam's money is a whole lot worse.

Yes I agree it's the same as taking your parents alcohol or cigarettes but we all started there too.