Is Clontarf going down the tubes?

gurramok

From todays shooting murder http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0407/shooting.html?rss to the last shooting murder in late '05 http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1118/rochen.html and coupled with drug seizures, armed robbery over last couple years etc
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0113/drugs.html
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0207/robbery.html
http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0801/clontarf.html
http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/1023/drugs.html

As these are only what the media report as major stories and don't report the minor stuff, is Clontarf getting that bad?

copacetic

i wouldn't say so, is the latest one even in clontarf? I'd call it more Marino/Fairview..

Zebra3

Yes, it's safe to say Clontarf is an absolute hellhole. After all, it is on the northside.

Anyway Clontarf property owners who want to sell up fast (and cheap) before they're murdered in their own home, please pm me.

Mossy Monk

gurramok wrote:

is Clontarf getting that bad?

Maybe those on the Dublin board can answer this for you.

monkeyfudge

2 murders over 3 years?

Pah!

Here in Coolock it doesn't feel like the week has ended properly unless some has been murdered in a brutal fashion.

Bob the Builder

The West is worse, people getting run down by tractors, and falling into manure pits...
But down here in the Wesht, we hear most about Coolock been a gangland area worse than anywhere else..

Sangre

'Northside suburb going down the tubes' SHOCKER! In other news, the 'Antarctic is cold'!

judas101

i live in clontarf. i think its fine. better than most places in dublin (yes including the southside)

most of the areas around here (artane, raheny,ect.) are defo getting better than worse.

by the by, chalemont road is in marino not clontarf.

admiralofthefleet

judas101 wrote:

by the by, chalemont road is in marino not clontarf.

thats exactly what i was going to say, clontarf isnt going to the dogs, its still very upmarket and safe, compared to a lot of places in dublin (south, west and north), try getting a bus to loughlinstown on the southside after 7pm, you wont, the service has stopped because of anti-social behavior.

judas101

Bang on.

furthermore, one of the above links os about someone who got knocked down on the clontarf road. how does that make clontarf a bad area?

another link is of a post office that was attempted to be held up. you think robbers rob their local post offices? didnt think so.

theres only been one major incident in the last while in clontarf being that shooting a while back and that turned out to be gang related deal from dublin west based gangs.

Isn't Barcode in Clontarf?

InFront

Yep. And The Monk lives in Clontarf. But, I think he's clean now.

In fairness, anyone who thinks Clontarf is a bad area needs to look harder at the places you pass through in getting to there. It's a nice place.

judas101

i mean if you look hard enough for bad stuff you'll find it whether youre in dalkey or on talbot st.

i still think the monk has his fingers in a few pies tbh.

spurious

Clontarf when you're selling, Marino/Fairview/Killester etc. when you're buying.

No worse or better than it was years ago.

johnnyrotten

judas101 wrote:

i live in clontarf. i think its fine. better than most places in dublin (yes including the southside)

most of the areas around here (artane, raheny,ect.) are defo getting better than worse.

by the by, chalemont road is in marino not clontarf.

Charlemont Road is in Clontarf!!! Its about 500 metres south of Clontarf Golf Club BTW

PeakOutput

my only real experience of clontarf was barcode and it just seemed to me to be scumbags wit ha bot more money than most scumbag areas.................theres alot of it in malahide too, although not to the extent of murder and they are nowhere near in the majority, alot of the "kids" seem to have gone down the knacker route regardless of how well off their family is

copacetic

johnnyrotten wrote:

Charlemont Road is in Clontarf!!! Its about 500 metres south of Clontarf Golf Club BTW

it's not really, only by a very generous definition. At best it is on the border of fairview, marino and clontarf but most people who live anywhere near it would say it is Marino. Clontarf golf club isn't really in clontarf either, certainly not the entrance anyway.

PeakOutput

copacetic wrote:

it's not really only, by a very genrous definition. At best it is on the border of fairview, marino and clontarf but most people who live anywhere near it would say it is Marino. Clontarf golf club isn't really in clontarf either, certainly not the entrance anyway.

its either clontarf by its address or its not

copacetic

PeakOutput wrote:

its either clontarf by its address or its not

rubbish, there is no such thing as defined limits for town names in Dublin, only postcodes and even they get a bit iffy on borderline areas.

PeakOutput

copacetic wrote:

rubbish, there is no such thing as defined limits for town names in Dublin, only postcodes and even they get a bit iffy on borderline areas.

there are probably more areas in dublin now without postcodes than with (obviously taking county dublin into account) if it says clontarf in the address and no marino or artane or coolock then it is clontarf ........i dont understand how that can be disputed

sorry i just re-read your post....so your saying that the name you put above the postcode does not matter it will still find its way there???? and there are no conventions for deciding where the borders of different areas start and end???

johnnyrotten

The Malahide Road splits Clontarf and Marino. East of it is Clontarf.

Dub13

johnnyrotten wrote:

The Malahide Road splits Clontarf and Marino. East of it is Clontarf.

100% spot on.

copacetic

PeakOutput wrote:

there are probably more areas in dublin now without postcodes than with (obviously taking county dublin into account) if it says clontarf in the address and no marino or artane or coolock then it is clontarf ........i dont understand how that can be disputed

sorry i just re-read your post....so your saying that the name you put above the postcode does not matter it will still find its way there???? and there are no conventions for deciding where the borders of different areas start and end???

exactly, what I am saying is who defines the address? the person who lives there. obviosly the post office would be a bit miffed at artane or coolock as they are miles away but once it says D3 the post would get there...

Dub13

Postcodes in Dublin are a Joke,I am just off the Grange Road in D13 I have got letters in my door marked D5,D3,D17,D14.

copacetic

Dub13 wrote:

100% spot on.

I disagree, most people would say it is the howth road that splits clontarf from donnycarney, killester and marino. Between the malahide and howth road is still marino (or donnycarney further up for that matter).

Also isn't the famous Marino Crescent in Clontarf by your definition?

Supercell

Moot point, 2008 we get post codes.
Will be interesting to see the tempory effect on the property market.

copacetic

Longfield wrote:

Moot point, 2008 we get post codes.
Will be interesting to see the tempory effect on the property market.

not really though, people will still be putting the 'posh' area on their address if they can, if anything the fact that postcodes will not be as easy to decipher will mean the townland name will be more, not less, important and definitely not moot.

Dub13

copacetic wrote:

I disagree, most people would say it is the howth road that splits clontarf from donnycarney, killester and marino. Between the malahide and howth road is still marino (or donnycarney further up for that matter).

The biggest plot of land between the Malahide and Howth Roads would be Mount Temple school & Clontarf Golf club,have you ever heard of these been referred to as Marino ...?

copacetic

Dub13 wrote:

The biggest plot of land between the Malahide and Howth Roads would be Mount Temple school & Clontarf Golf club,have you ever heard of these been referred to as Marino ...?

never heard of them as clontarf either. In fact mount temple is just malahide road, D3. I should know.

Also directly north of the golf club is Donnycarney church and the whole area of Donnycarney, all east of malahide road, are you saying that is actually clontarf?

mikemac

copacetic wrote:

exactly, what I am saying is who defines the address? the person who lives there. obviosly the post office would be a bit miffed at artane or coolock as they are miles away but once it says D3 the post would get there...

Artane and Coolock are in D5, no? Maybe I'm misreading your post so maybe you know this already
Guys, this road is question is defo Clontarf.

Easy to see where the cofusion lies. Most of the snobs in Killester and Marino reckon they are in Clontarf.
They may get away with it, but as for people from Donnycarney, :eek:.

copacetic

micmclo wrote:

Artane and Coolock are in D5, no? Maybe I'm misreading your post so maybe you know this already
Guys, this road is question is defo Clontarf.

Easy to see where the cofusion lies. Most of the snobs in Killester and Marino reckon they are in Clontarf.
They may get away with it, but as for people from Donnycarney, :eek:.

peak seemed to think they were in the same area, I was pointing out they were miles away. Again, I love all the 'defo' and '100% spot on'. Based on what? As I asked above, are you all saying that the famous Marino Crescent is in Clontarf?

PeakOutput

copacetic wrote:

peak seemed to think they were in the same area, I was pointing out they were miles away. Again, I love all the 'defo' and '100% spot on'. Based on what? As I asked above, are you all saying that the famous Marino Crescent is in Clontarf?

i was only pointing out why your point that its all about the post codes is not correct i know exactly where these places are

Supercell

copacetic wrote:

not really though, people will still be putting the 'posh' area on their address if they can, if anything the fact that postcodes will not be as easy to decipher will mean the townland name will be more, not less, important and definitely not moot.

LOL, thats all I can say, if you think Irish house buyers won't do their homework on this then you are sorely out of touch imho.

copacetic

PeakOutput wrote:

i was only pointing out why your point that its all about the post codes is not correct i know exactly where these places are

didn't do a very good job did you, since you didn't point out or prove anything.

copacetic

Longfield wrote:

LOL, thats all I can say, if you think Irish house buyers won't do their homework on this then you are sorely out of touch imho.

where did I say that? I was just pointing out that when postcodes come in, area names are not going to dissapear. Which is what you seem to think based on your post above?

PeakOutput

copacetic wrote:

didn't do a very good job did you, since you didn't point out or prove anything.

so you honestly think that you can leave out the town name and put in the area code and the letter will get where it needs to go???

mikemac

copacetic wrote:

rubbish, there is no such thing as defined limits for town names in Dublin, only postcodes and even they get a bit iffy on borderline areas.

I understand how borders between townlands can be difficult, but postcodes?
I've a map book here in front of me and it couldn't be clearer on where the postcode boundary are. Sure many of them wind around parts of the same estate (they did when I lived in Artane) but there can be no confusion on what post area you are in.

Townlands are a different matter

copacetic

PeakOutput wrote:

so you honestly think that you can leave out the town name and put in the area code and the letter will get where it needs to go???

I don't honestly believe it, I know it for a fact. eg mount temple above, they don't even use a town name, they just use the road and the postcode. I know loads of people that do the same. Where I live now people vary the town name and the postcode and all the post gets here.

copacetic

micmclo wrote:

I understand how borders between townlands can be difficult, but postcodes?
I've a map book here in front of me and it couldn't be clearer on where the postcode boundary are. Sure many of them wind around parts of the same estate (they did when I lived in Artane) but there can be no confusion on what post area you are in.

Townlands are a different matter

so I used to think but where I live now is debatable between D18 and Co. Dublin, some people use one, some the other and the post office aren't sure of the boundary since everything is new. They say you can use whichever you like until the new system comes in. For instance in your mapbook where is the line between co. dublin and D18 in the sandyford/stepaside area?

PeakOutput

copacetic wrote:

I don't honestly believe it, I know it for a fact. eg mount temple above, they don't even use a town name, they just use the road and the postcode. I know loads of people that do the same. Where I live now people vary the town name and the postcode and all the post gets here.

ok well i know for a fact that you are wrong............in malahide there were new houses built near the border of malahide and swords closer to swords than malahide........the developer had to withdraw his advertisements stating the estate was in malahide because it was actually(according to the county council borders as far as i remember) in swords........so it is very clear that there are set down boundary lines for address's. people can send mail to wherever they want and if the postman happens know what they mean(for example i got a letter delivered to my house even though it was adressed wrong because the postman recognised the second name) it will get were it needs to go. this does not change the fact that the official adress of the property will be on the deeds

gurramok

copacetic wrote:

i wouldn't say so, is the latest one even in clontarf? I'd call it more Marino/Fairview..

Strange that our dail seem to think its in clontarf http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:tcTybcmUfPUJ:historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0317/D.0317.197911270030.html+charlemont+road+clontarf&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ie&client=firefox-a

Here's 2 apartments for rent on daft saying its Charlemont Road, Clontarf
http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?search=Search+%BB&s[search_type]=area&s[a_id]=206&s[cc_id]=206&s[c_id]=1&s[ct_id]=1&s[refreshmap]=1&offset=8&limit=8&id=452827
http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?search=Search+%BB&s[search_type]=area&s[a_id]=206&s[cc_id]=206&s[c_id]=1&s[ct_id]=1&s[refreshmap]=1&offset=8&limit=8&id=455245

This property on the Malahide Road immediately west of Charlemont Road is described as Clontarf.
http://www.myhome.ie/search/property.asp?id=305966

Are they -daft, myhome, dail, media and posters here all wrong??

copacetic

gurramok wrote:

Strange that our dail seem to think its in clontarf http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:tcTybcmUfPUJ:historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0317/D.0317.197911270030.html+charlemont+road+clontarf&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ie&client=firefox-a

Here's 2 apartments for rent on daft saying its Charlemont Road, Clontarf
http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?search=Search+%BB&s[search_type]=area&s[a_id]=206&s[cc_id]=206&s[c_id]=1&s[ct_id]=1&s[refreshmap]=1&offset=8&limit=8&id=452827
http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?search=Search+%BB&s[search_type]=area&s[a_id]=206&s[cc_id]=206&s[c_id]=1&s[ct_id]=1&s[refreshmap]=1&offset=8&limit=8&id=455245

This property on the Malahide Road immediately west of Charlemont Road is described as Clontarf.
http://www.myhome.ie/search/property.asp?id=305966

Are they -daft, myhome, dail, media and posters here all wrong??

plenty of posters here have also said it is not clontarf. What are you on? The 'dail' thinks? wtf does that mean.

As for posting property links? That's laughable, they are all going to say the poshest area now aren't they? Do you really believe that they mean something?

They others above dissapeared as soon as this was asked, so I'll ask you.
Is the famous Marino Crescent in Clontarf by your reckoning? I suppose it will be and Marino Avenue too?

Huggles

johnnyrotten wrote:

Charlemont Road is in Clontarf!!! Its about 500 metres south of Clontarf Golf Club BTW

Charlemont road is on the marino side of the Howth Road...the boundary

its not Clontarf.

mikemac

There is a vets office beside the Centra shop close to the junction of the Malahide Rd and Griffith Avenue.

If anything west of the Howth Road is Marino why does the office and website call themselves Clontarf Veterinary Hospital?
Are they wrong?
Link and link to map.
http://www.anicare.ie/about_us.html
http://www.anicare.ie/images/clontarf_map.gif

Good example as it's just off the road mentioned by the OP

King.Penguin

Jesus, I bet every single one of the last 3 posters on this subject are teenagers.

I think the main point to take away from this is that townland names such as Malahide, Swords, Fairview etc. are not discrete entities. Postcodes such as D3, D5, and D7 generally are (however there are 1 or 2 problematic areas). There is little legislation preventing a property developer saying his new estate is Castleknock when it's 5 mins walk from Blanchardstown shopping centre. At the end of the day it's all in D15 but Castleknock sells better than Blanchardstown because people are stupid gob****es and want to live in an area with a nice name (remember the property doesn't actually move regardless of the second last line of your address).

It's similar in the case of Swords/Malahide/Kinsealy/Feltrim. I wasn't aware the develper in the previous case was forced to remove the Malahide advertising. I think it's worth noting that malahide rugby club is actually a little bit closer to the Post office in Swords as opposed to the Post office in Malahide (same for garda station too).

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Clontarf is another example of a slighlty sprawling townland name, it's the D4 of the northside. People who live beside the old dollymount house seafield road are in clontarf not dollymount, those at the end of vernon avenue are in clontarf not raheny etc. etc. Charlemont avenue is in clontarf if you consider barcode to be in clontarf. However, it comes down to your outlook. It's 2 mins walk from indisuputable marino.

This gerrymandering has and always will go on. My parents live in grace park heights (turn left off the Malahide rd. @ Donneycarney church and it's 3-4mins walk away) which, officially, is down as DRUMCONDRA!!!! The neighbouring estate, the meadows, is officially Donneycarney. Also Annadale (top of Phillipsburgh Ave.) is Whitehall AFAIK.

copacetic

King.Penguin wrote:

Jesus, I bet every single one of the last 3 posters on this subject are teenagers.

I think the main point to take away from this is that townland names such as Malahide, Swords, Fairview etc. are not discrete entities. Postcodes such as D3, D5, and D7 generally are (however there are 1 or 2 problematic areas). There is little legislation preventing a property developer saying his new estate is Castleknock when it's 5 mins walk from Blanchardstown shopping centre. At the end of the day it's all in D15 but Castleknock sells better than Blanchardstown because people are stupid gob****es and want to live in an area with a nice name (remember the property doesn't actually move regardless of the second last line of your address).

It's similar in the case of Swords/Malahide/Kinsealy/Feltrim. I wasn't aware the develper in the previous case was forced to remove the Malahide advertising. I think it's worth noting that malahide rugby club is actually a little bit closer to the Post office in Swords as opposed to the Post office in Malahide (same for garda station too).

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Clontarf is another example of a slighlty sprawling townland name, it's the D4 of the northside. People who live beside the old dollymount house seafield road are in clontarf not dollymount, those at the end of vernon avenue are in clontarf not raheny etc. etc. Charlemont avenue is in clontarf if you consider barcode to be in clontarf. However, it comes down to your outlook. It's 2 mins walk from indisuputable marino.

more to the point, it's about a 10 second walk from marino avenue, which is one road up. I'll take your bet by the way..

gurramok

copacetic wrote:

Is the famous Marino Crescent in Clontarf by your reckoning? I suppose it will be and Marino Avenue too?

Marino Crescent is in Clontarf.

If you disagree then, you'll disown the birthplace of Bram Stoker
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:3lQoOw-XgGAJ:www.dublintourist.com/literary_dublin/+marino+crescent+dublin&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=ie&client=firefox-a
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:wqpsADWWm_4J:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bram_Stoker+marino+crescent+dublin&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=21&gl=ie&client=firefox-a
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:S5IRi1XdfQAJ:www.answers.com/topic/bram-stoker+marino+crescent+dublin&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=31&gl=ie&client=firefox-a

who just so happens was born at number 15 Marino Crescent, Clontarf officially.

Charlemont Road is further north-easterly from Marino in Clontarf than Marino Crescent, just look at a map of the area.

Historically in 1888 Street Finder, Marino Crescent was always addressed as in Clontarf
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:1vFBI7bPurgJ:homepages.rootsweb.com/~lennan/data/dubc.htm+marino+crescent+dublin&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=33&gl=ie&client=firefox-a

copacetic

gurramok wrote:

Marino Crescent is in Clontarf.

If you disagree then, you'll disown the birthplace of Bram Stoker
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:3lQoOw-XgGAJ:www.dublintourist.com/literary_dublin/+marino+crescent+dublin&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=ie&client=firefox-a
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:wqpsADWWm_4J:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bram_Stoker+marino+crescent+dublin&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=21&gl=ie&client=firefox-a
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:S5IRi1XdfQAJ:www.answers.com/topic/bram-stoker+marino+crescent+dublin&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=31&gl=ie&client=firefox-a

who just so happens was born at number 15 Marino Crescent, Clontarf officially.

Charlemont Road is further north-easterly from Marino in Clontarf than Marino Crescent, just look at a map of the area.

Historically in 1888 Street Finder, Marino Crescent was always addressed as in Clontarf
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:1vFBI7bPurgJ:homepages.rootsweb.com/~lennan/data/dubc.htm+marino+crescent+dublin&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=33&gl=ie&client=firefox-a

you have got to be sh1tting me1 if you did that search you must have seen all the results than say Marino Crescent, Marino is the birthplace of Bram stoker. Didn't bother to link them though..

gurramok

copacetic wrote:

you have got to be sh1tting me1 if you did that search you must have seen all the results than say Marino Crescent, Marino is the birthplace of Bram stoker. Didn't bother to link them though..

They are 'Marino Crescent Dublin' results, i didn't put in either Clontarf or Marino.

Loads of international websites say Bram Stoker was born in Clontarf, guess according to yourself, Marino has just got a boost!

This delightful pub in the street behind Charlemont Road on Marino Avenue describes itself as in Clontarf, maybe they are wrong as well?
http://www.dublinpubscene.com/thepubs/graingers2.html

Disregard th 1888 street name as well?

spurious

Part of the problem here is we are talking about old names like Clontarf which have existed for hundreds of years and 20th century superimposed placenames like Marino/Donnycarney etc..
Some places are in both.

Barcode would have been under the sea 200 years ago....how times have changed. For the better, I'm sure.....