Is an A1 in Honours Irish Impossible to achieve in the Leaving?

Mackleton

Well I know for a fact that no one in my school has gotten an A in the past five years but Im wondering is it the same all over, are the A's hard to get?
Also, anyone who got an A1, or 2 in the pre or last years leaving, what e
was your learning technique coz I know honours Irish is a bit of a stumbling block for many people and some constructive tips for doing better would be a great help.

Go raibh mile maith agaibh!

Haven't a Clue

In answer to yer question, no, of course it's not impossible. I go to a school in the Gaeltacht where there's be a few A1's every year from people who come from families who speak Irish at home. They'd excel at the oral and, paper one and cluistiscint where a lot of others'd fall on their asses...

simu

I got one back in 1998!

I'd say they're clustered in the Gaelscoileanna and in Gaeltacht schools. Although, most people in my Gaelscoil class, while they did very well in Irish, didn't get an A1.

Mackleton

Well I'll be more specific, I mean people who didnt go a a gaelscoil or grow up in an irish speaking family

cee_jay

way back in 1998, my best friend got herself an A1 - she didn't go to a gaelscoil, or grow up in an irish speaking family.
But it was her favourite subject and was going on to study it further in Uni so maybe that was part of it??
She had the interest and worked hard at it?
She did go to Irish college for a few summers as well which she said helped her a lot

JC 2K3

It shall be my easiest A1.

If you can't speak/write Irish fluently you won't get an A1 unless you're really good at learning off loads of stuff you don't understand and are able to use it when appropriate.

So basically you have to speak it/write it as much as possible, read it as much as possible etc. Try posting on Tar Éis na hUaire here on boards and put a FRC(Fáilte Roimh Ceartúcháin) at the end of your posts and people will help you with your grammar while at the same time you'll be expanding your vocabulary and ability to express yourself through Irish. You could read Foinse but it's a bit crap IMO. Perhaps read some easy-ish modern Irish novels/short stories for young adults like Dúnmharú ar an DART or Mistéirí Móra. Could be a bit late to be telling you all this now in terms of getting you an A1, but it will definately help improve your Irish. once you can understand and write Irish fluidly it becomes a hell of a lot easier to construct your paper 2 answers. Just know a couple of points about the main subject of every story, start every answer with something like "Is cinnte go n-aontaím leis an ráiteas sin" or "Aontaím go hiomlán leis an ráiteas sin" and then just write about each point.

timmywex

about 5% get an A1 according to the examinations website

Steve01

Am I the only one who thinks the Department did a terrible job devising the marking scheme for Irish? In most subjects they mark to a tight system; with Irish they're vague as vague can be.
Look at a typical 25 mark prose question for example.As far as I know the only guideline supplied to the corrector is to judge how adequately the candidate addressed the question. I think a better system would go something like this
15 marks - how the candidate addressed the question; level of detail
5 marks - use of Irish
5 marks - structure of answer

From what my Irish teacher tells me, the mark allocated comes down to how much the corrector liked your answer. Fairly shabby if you ask me. Look at the PCLM method for English and how it narrows the margin of error significantly.This confusion could be one of the reasons why there are so few A1s in Irish year after year - the examiners don't know what they're looking for.

JC 2K3

Steve01 wrote:

This confusion could be one of the reasons why there are so few A1s in Irish year after year - the examiners don't know what they're looking for.

No, it's a conspiracy involving a marking curve :rolleyes:


While I don't agree that it has much bearing on the amount of A1s, I do think that the Irish marking scheme is indeed very vague.

AdMMM

Unfortunately for those of us who do not speak Irish fluently, A1s will be extremely hard for us to achieve. The standard for A1s is set by those who do speak the language fluently which immediately puts those living outside of Gaeltacht areas at a disadvantage because in order to achieve that A, we will have to be able to speak at the same level of fluency of those inside those areas which is not possible given the limited time and resources available to us.

Maybe if the oral was marked differently for those living outside the Gaeltacht regions/those not attending Gaeltacht schools then we would see more people getting these A1s but even in typing this, I realise that this an unrealistic option which would do nothing but undermine the integrity of the Leaving Certificate.

Steve01

|.Murderer.| wrote:

The standard for A1s is set by those who do speak the language fluently which immediately puts those living outside of Gaeltacht areas at a disadvantage because in order to achieve that A, we will have to be able to speak at the same level of fluency of those inside those areas which is not possible given the limited time and resources available to us.

I'm living in close proximity to a Gaeltacht, maybe I'll be in with a shot for the A1. Though come to think of it, half the population is American and most Gaeltacht residents in my year are in pass Irish....

Ó mo Dhia! Drochstáid na teanga!

JC 2K3

|.Murderer.| wrote:

Unfortunately for those of us who do not speak Irish fluently, A1s will be extremely hard for us to achieve. The standard for A1s is set by those who do speak the language fluently which immediately puts those living outside of Gaeltacht areas at a disadvantage because in order to achieve that A, we will have to be able to speak at the same level of fluency of those inside those areas which is not possible given the limited time and resources available to us.

Limited time? The LC course is 2 years, and you've been learning Irish for 14 years. Having had a good Irish education in an English speaking primary and then going onto an all Irish secondary I can't really comment on how badly it's apprently generally taught, but I do know that the system is fúcked when so many can't do well in something as simple as LC Irish after 14 years of supposedly learning the language.

As a matter of interest, how many people from English speaking secondary schools have regular conversation classes in Irish?

AdMMM

We never spoke Irish (well, attempt conversation) in class up until the recent oral preperation. That's what I mean by limited time. We need more exposure to the language in order to gain any sort of fluency, but this simply isn't available to us!

JC 2K3

Really?

I'd have thought any honours Irish class would be conducted entirely through Irish, no?

Actually thinking about it, probably not. But like, would your Irish teacher never come in and just speak Irish to you for the class?

PurpleFistMixer

My Irish teacher speaks to us primarily in Irish. She occasionally throws in English words and sometimes, if it's something important and the class is glazing over, will say it all in English. We speak very very little Irish to her, though. Hopefully it'll get better in 6th year!

Naikon

:eek::eek::eek:

DtotheK

it is impossible that no one at all gets an A1 ... the whole bell curve thing and so on, they have to give out a certain number of A1s and A2s etc etc...

I will get neither, and therefore cant really give you tips ,

Your best bet would be to study i guess and then watch hector!

ethernet

JC 2K3 wrote:

Limited time? The LC course is 2 years, and you've been learning Irish for 14 years ...

13 if you didn't do TY . That one year makes such a difference!

Rozabeez

My Irish teacher doesn't speak Irish the whole time either, because nobody can understand her.

JC 2K3

I said the system was fúcked if people couldn't learn Irish in 14 years, not that it was the students fault and I fail to see where I was an ass about being fluent in Irish.

I have no idea how Irish is taught in English speaking schools and asked if people had conversation classes, that ok with you?

And Irish isn't important to my family....

Jack Lynch

Irish isn't treated with enough importance in primary school. There isn't a good foudation for the language. If you think about it, there are only 5-6 years where you're actually properly taught Irish (unless you go to a Gaelscoil). The fact is, most Leaving Cert students in the country are better at French or German than they are at Irish.

AdMMM

DtotheK wrote:

it is impossible that no one at all gets an A1 ... the whole bell curve thing and so on, they have to give out a certain number of A1s and A2s etc etc...

That was my point, the A1's are going to those who are fluent speakers (i.e probably attending Gaelscoils). It makes it difficult for those of us not living in these areas and attending these schools to be able to achieve an A1.

JC 2K3

Jack Lynch wrote:

The fact is, most Leaving Cert students in the country are better at French or German than they are at Irish.

Not really. You don't have to write essays on French or German literature in their respective LC subjects. They're a much lower standard of exam compared to Irish. Those who do well in French and German orals are usually those who have been in France or Germany or one of those Euro Language colleges.

And people forget French and German as much as they forget Irish on leaving secondary school unless they stdy it in college/go to work in France or Germany.

AdMMM

I'd actually say that people would be more likely to go to France or Germany (or anywhere else in Europe) than they would be to go to a Gaeltacht region!

JC 2K3

Of course, because it's perceived as more important.

However, Summer Irish Courses in Gaeltacht areas are at fault for not being strict enough enforcing an Irish speaking policy. Most people do go at least once in their lives, usually around 1st-3rd year but get no benefit from it. The one I went to in 2nd year, and any one my friends went to were all VERY lax.

cocoa

|.Murderer.| wrote:

That was my point, the A1's are going to those who are fluent speakers (i.e probably attending Gaelscoils). It makes it difficult for those of us not living in these areas and attending these schools to be able to achieve an A1.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but isn't that fair? Isn't it fair that people with a higher standard of Irish score higher? I think it's a good reflection on the examination that it is so difficult to get an A1 if you are not a fluent speaker. In much the same way that it is quite difficult to do well in English without a certain level of fluency.

How and ever, that said, it is highly unfair that the standard of teaching (and therefore the chance of achieving fluency) is so different from school to school (or perhaps, gaelscoil to school?). Having entered a gaelscoil for secondary education and reaching fluency within six years, I feel that everyone in the country has the potential to reach some level of bilingualism by the end of the LC and it is a dreadful shame that not everyone is given the proper resources to achieve that.

Simply put, don't blame the exam, blame the standard of teaching.

me2gud4u

yeh i agree with cocoa. I attended an all english primary school and then went on to an all irish secondary school education. I'm now a flient irish speaker but i'm not here to rub that n or anything. I would definitely expect an A1 in ard irish but that i only think that is fair when i have spent every class over the last six yrs listening to irish. In first year i remember that my homework used to take longer because when i would study science for example i would have to go and learn all the vocabulary for atom, compounds, sodium chloride, dropping funnel same with geog learning volcano, migration, population etc etc. I am aware however that there are plenty of pupils in all english schools who have superb irish and sometimes i think that all irish schools forget this. I regularly see irish copies from an english school and to be honest i believe that whilst the flow tends nhot to be as fluid their level of accuracy can be far better, you would not believe some of the irish that is spoken is some of the all irish secondary schools. D4 irish. "tá mé soooooooo ag súíl leis..."...really the standard of irish coming in from the primary schools leaves a lot to be desired......

yurmothrintites

I'm lucky in the fact that my dad is an excellent irish teacher who gives me grinds everyday. I also went to the gaeltacht 4 times i will be so ripping if I don't get a B1 in Irish because of the resources I have. I would have liked to have learned níos mó gaeilge at my primary school doh, they don't teach it properly!

Steve01

yurmothrintites wrote:

I'm lucky in the fact that my dad is an excellent irish teacher who gives me grinds everyday. I also went to the gaeltacht 4 times i will be so ripping if I don't get a B1 in Irish because of the resources I have.

You also eat gold and own a flying pony. Some people have far too much luck :rolleyes:

Vorsprung

Not impossible at all! I got one back in 2002, I was in Gaelscoil for primary school, but then an english speaking school after. I know people who spent their entire time in english speaking schools, went to Irish college a few years and did very well.

balzarywex

defo not impossible! went to an english-speaking primary and secondary. in the end, two out of the total sixteen (myself included) got A1s. and i can speak for both of us that we didn't learn off stuff. guess it just came because we casually spoke in Irish in class.

genericgoon

we did no oral work barely. Our teacher translated all the stuff into english which may sound bad but at least when im looking over the stories I can actually understand them at a glance.

eily

can i just say that on an irish oral course i did we got cd's of A-standard answers and its very manageable. the basics done well will get ya there. similarly, some candidates got like B2s and they were so off. im talking like 'cad a dheanfaidh tu san ollscoil' and them replying 'tagaim ar scoil ar an mbus'! how reassuring! (and yet very worrying!)

Mackleton

Ya our teacher played us an A1 and a B standard oral, the A girl sounded like a robot to my ears, all nonstop in a monotone, good vocab and nearly perfect grammer, but our teacher who also does orals said that what gave her the A was that she had good control of the language and was able to deal with any question and didnt panic. The B grade made a cardinal mistake of saying "Bhi me an-athas nuair a bhi......." Clearly a glaring mistake but he had the vocab for aiseanna scoile, subjects etc. so he got his B. I'd say it definately isnt as gruelling as we are all imagining. Also the A grader had her nathanna cainte, gan abhras, cinnte, ar chor ar bith, na gnathrudai.

Naikon

|.Murderer.| wrote:

Unfortunately for those of us who do not speak Irish fluently, A1s will be extremely hard for us to achieve. The standard for A1s is set by those who do speak the language fluently which immediately puts those living outside of Gaeltacht areas at a disadvantage because in order to achieve that A, we will have to be able to speak at the same level of fluency of those inside those areas which is not possible given the limited time and resources available to us.

Maybe if the oral was marked differently for those living outside the Gaeltacht regions/those not attending Gaeltacht schools then we would see more people getting these A1s but even in typing this, I realise that this an unrealistic option which would do nothing but undermine the integrity of the Leaving Certificate.

So by discriminating against the majority of the school leaver population.
By giving Gaeltacht residents an advantage over everybody else, not including the extra "bonus marks" for answering through Irish is justifiable?.
This whole Irish scene stinks of favoratism if you ask me:mad:.

Mackleton

Have to say I agree with Naikon to a degree. For instance 10% of all primary school teacher places in college are reserved for people from the gaeltacht. Tbh when you only need a HC3 in Irish to do it the level of fluency is hardly an issue, so why then do they have the added advantage?

europerson

Mackleton wrote:

Have to say I agree with Naikon to a degree. For instance 10% of all primary school teacher places in college are reserved for people from the gaeltacht. Tbh when you only need a HC3 in Irish to do it the level of fluency is hardly an issue, so why then do they have the added advantage?

It's to supply teachers for Gaeilscoileanna, where all subjects are taught through Irish, bot just Irish itself.

Mackleton

Thats true but you can also find some exceptional Irish speakers in non-gaeltacht areas who are sometimes just as good. A friend of mine is what you might call exceptional and she lives in a non-gaeltacht area and none of her family speaks Irish, she is just extremely talented.

JC 2K3

Naikon wrote:

So by discriminating against the majority of the school leaver population.
By giving Gaeltacht residents an advantage over everybody else, not including the extra "bonus marks" for answering through Irish is justifiable?.
This whole Irish scene stinks of favoratism if you ask me:mad:.

Like it or not, since the establishment of the free state it has been a goal of the Irish government to promote a bilingual society. Enthusiasm for Irish is actually at one of its highest levels in recent times. Speaking Irish just happens to give you an advantage in many situations these days, and tbh, it's a better excuse to award privilage than having money. As far as I'm concerned they can get rid of the Irish bonus when they disallow private schools.

And it is a bit more work for us doing the LC through Irish anyway, we have to learn all the terminology for Chemistry, Physics, history etc. in Irish.