Drove an auto today....

ninty9er

Hey everyone, drove an auto box today for the 1st time...and I'm a happy camper...it's a bit high mileage for my liking so I won't be biting on that particular hook...but when I do change it'll be an auto if I can at all help it.

Why is there a stigma attached to these and why aren't there more out there!!!
I'd hope never to buy a manual again:D

btw: it was a 97 316.

DonJose

Probably because they cost, new, roughly €2k more than a manual. I'd never buy a manual, the extra €2k is worth every penny.

andrew_ireland

Older autos were a bit heavier on fuel but I'm not too sure about the newer models. I drive an auto at the moment and find the manual system quaint! I've heard manual heads bitching about autos that you don't have control- that's nonsense, there's plenty.

ninty9er

andrew_ireland wrote:

Older autos were a bit heavier on fuel but I'm not too sure about the newer models. I drive an auto at the moment and find the manual system quaint! I've heard manual heads bitching about autos that you don't have control- that's nonsense, there's plenty.

Yeah...mentioned to a friend last week that I was considering going auto and he said "I like to be able to drop down the gear to overtake"

ANSWER WILL BE: I learned about an exciting new button under the accelerator called a kickdown button, and was I happy when I found that:D

Andrewf20

Ive had a few auto rentals in the USA and like some of their benefits but ultimately prefer the manual because:

1) I love the "direct drive" feel of a manual.
2) Cars with manual are usual if not always faster up to speed.
3) I dont find changing gear a burden anyway. (Although clutch work in heavy traffic can be a pain).
4) Love heal and toeing successfully

Guy:Incognito

You can make an auto change up and down when you like. You just have to get used to driving it.

When it's time to change my car I'll be doing everything in my power to get another auto.

Dades

I've been driving an auto for about a month now and love it. It's a 70's SL, only three speed, but smooth as you like. AND it's got a kickdown button which really does give you a kick.

Unless you commute over the Wicklow Gap or something, an auto is worth it just for the more relaxed driving experience.

_Kaiser_

Said it before and I'll say it again.. I LOVE my 02 Auto 1.9 TDI Passat

I do most of my driving on N/M-roads anyway and there's more than enough power (130 BHP) when ya need it. As for being heavy on juice, about €30 does her for the week with a daily 50 mile commute + extra running around, so compared to my old 1.3 petrol which was costing me about €45 a week towards the end, there's just no comparison!

Couldn't go to a manual at this stage (this is my 3rd auto). I really don't see why Irish people generally are against them.

rebel.ranter

An auto works best with a larger engine. I like my auto but I also have a manual car that Ilike driving. I wouldn't put one over the other but both have their advantages.
You definitely feel more involved driving a manual, but then again do you really always want to fell involved all the time?
My auto a 525i has a "manual" sport option (- +, push forward to go up a gear, backwards to go down a gear) but I have only used it two or three times at most, it gets boring after a while. The full auto mode is too comfortable!!!!

nialler

in my auto there's a + and - either side of the gear selector forget about kickdown, slap that over twice and by jayziz does the car move, stuck to the seat.

Will never drive a manual again.

Esel

ninty9er wrote:

Yeah...mentioned to a friend last week that I was considering going auto and he said "I like to be able to drop down the gear to overtake"

ANSWER WILL BE: I learned about an exciting new button under the accelerator called a kickdown button, and was I happy when I found that:D

Better (more controllable) IMO to use the gear lever to move to a lower gear. Keep the kickdown for when you really need it.

ninty9er

esel wrote:

Better (more controllable) IMO to use the gear lever to move to a lower gear. Keep the kickdown for when you really need it.

I think I'd need a few weeks of getting used to no clutch before I'd get adventurous like that

curiosity

I don't think it's a case of Irish peoople being against automatics. Consider this...

If you are buying a 'typical' new car in Ireland, (by typical I mean a 1.4 hatchback or a 1.6/1.8 saloon), automatic transmission is probably not an option. For example, neither the current Focus or Golf have automatic transmission in their 1.4 models. You need to go up to the 1.6 in both cases. The 1.8 Mondeo doesn't either, you need to go up to the 2.0. Most people will plump for the smaller engine size on cost consideration, as they are well entitled to do. I picked these 3 cars as a typical example of what we see on our roads, and got my info from their official Irish websites. Few new autos being bought= few used autos to buy. Going into a car dealers and asking for a small/medium car with an auto box must severely limit your choices.

The driving test; "If you pass the test in a vehicle using automatic transmission your full driving licence will restrict you to driving such vehicles."

http://www.drivingtest.ie/faqs.html. If you can master the dreaded 'hill start' in a manual then the rest of your driving career should be a doddle in comparison. Oh how we laugh when an American movie contains the classic dialogue; "This is a stick shift", "Yea, so?", "I can't drive stick!"


I've never driven an automatic myself so I have no informed opinion as to how much easier they are to drive. I'm currently behind the wheel of a 1.4 Focus. If I did most of my driving in heavy trafffic, was buying a 2. something saloon, or was going through a clutch a year, then I'd consider an automatic. But until then I'll 'stick' with stick!

GTC

Have driven extensively with automatics both here and in Australia and the US. I find automatics very easy on the foot, but tense stuff around corners.

An example would be the Toyota Camry 3.0 V6. I drove an auto in the US and it was terrible around bends as the rear end would always stick out (Oversteer) and it never felt solid on the simplest of bends.

The manual version I had in Australia (same model BTW) was considerably quicker and had far better control in corners. I questioned this, (of course) thinking that the aussies just got better spec, and tried the auto again, bloody terrible for control.

Those that enjoy driving hard on back roads pushing a car would probably not consider autos (especially in my job). Those who like pottering around the city, in traffic etc would love them.

I think automatic transmission is a great idea, but not for performance stuff, except in straight lines.

GTC, Garda Traffic Corps

nialler

Wouldn't necessarily agree with a generalisation like that GTC, I took my LWB S320 up the wicklow mountains, little tiny roads, sharp bends, up and down like a mad thing, all I had to do was lock her into D3, second setting on the suspension hardness and she was fine, brakes got a slight bit of fade after about 45 minutes of pushing her hard and not once did the ESP even blink, the only reason I did that was to see how a boat like that would handle itself and it came through with flying colours unfortunately my underpants didn't ;-)

rocky

True story

I too drove an auto today for the first time. Granted it's a 1L micra :eek: :rolleyes: , I don't think it would be much 'livelier' in a manual. very very confortable in traffic and even on open roads. Stick it in D and bob's your uncle.

I've heard about 'kickdown' before, I just thought there was the transmission that 'felt' you put the pedal to the metal and just changed down a few gears (this micra, when I do this , likes to send me in all I can describe as 1st gear , because she's revving over 5500 RPM... ). Anyways, I didn't realize there is a button (under the pedal I would presume?) that actually does that... unless you are all joking

Now I'm drooling after the DSG, get me some pover and such a box. :eek:

JHMEG

The one thing about an auto is that in stop-start traffic most people tend to leave the car in Drive while stopped, with a foot on the brake. The torque converter won't have locked up, but the engine is still pushing (fluid) and the driver is resisting by holding the brake. This is a disaster on fuel economy.

As a result the auto does worst where people appreciate them the most.

Whereas cruising on an open road there is little to differentiate between and auto and a manual, both in terms of consumption and convenience.

Guy:Incognito

JHMEG wrote:

The one thing about an auto is that in stop-start traffic most people tend to leave the car in Drive while stopped, with a foot on the brake. The torque converter won't have locked up, but the engine is still pushing (fluid) and the driver is resisting by holding the brake. This is a disaster on fuel economy..

Yeah, i do that pretty much, unless I know I'll be waiting a while. Never been able to get a definative answer about proper use of the gears.

bigkev49-2

Glad to be the first on the thread to say it, driving an automatic significantly decreases your manliness, outside of the pale anyhoo!!

JHMEG

Stekelly wrote:

Yeah, i do that pretty much, unless I know I'll be waiting a while. Never been able to get a definative answer about proper use of the gears.

When I used drive an auto, I used put it in neutral when stopped for more than a few seconds. But... there is no clutch, so "neutral" isn't really neutral (engine is still pushing fluid), so it's still not as good in fuel economy terms as a manual.

Guy:Incognito

bigkev49-2 wrote:

Glad to be the first on the thread to say it, driving an automatic significantly decreases your manliness, outside of the pale anyhoo!!

So does marrying someone who isnt a blood relative, whats your point.*







*joke, culchies are aaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllll right, except the poster above, it still applies to him.

DubTony

curiosity wrote:

Few new autos being bought= few used autos to buy.

I've driven autos since '96 except for a period where a replacement wasneeded for 6 months after my Civic was stolen.

As I've only ever bought a used car, it has always intrigued me how the guy will tell me, deadpan, he can't give me much for my auto because there's not much demand, and that the auto I'm buying is dearer than the equivalent manual because autos are always dearer.

DubTony

bigkev49-2 wrote:

Glad to be the first on the thread to say it, driving an automatic significantly decreases your manliness, outside of the pale anyhoo!!

Welcome to boards. Nice of you to start off by slagging people who drive particular types of cars. Obviously the auld tractor is a great way to prove you have something hanging between your legs, but it's ok, seemingly the size isn't important.

I have a suggestion. Why don't you sign up again under a different name and then come back and start again. Actually, scratch that ... why don't you just f*ck right off.

unkel

DubTony wrote:

why don't you just f*ck right off.

A bit harsh there, DubTony.

Let him be. He doesn't understand (the poor simple fool).

bigkev49-2

DubTony wrote:

Welcome to boards. Nice of you to start off by slagging people who drive particular types of cars. Obviously the auld tractor is a great way to prove you have something hanging between your legs, but it's ok, seemingly the size isn't important.

I have a suggestion. Why don't you sign up again under a different name and then come back and start again. Actually, scratch that ... why don't you just f*ck right off.

Sorry to have so obviously offended u there bud but obviously you didn't pick up on the fact that my tongue was firmly in my cheek writing that comment.

Not new to boards at all, my other account (username: bigkev49 if you want to check up on me) has locked up solid, and no I haven't been banned, either permanently or temporarily, before you suggest it. Could you look into that for me unkel?? PM me please.

As this is a motoring forum I would presume that the people here would be interested in having the best driving experience. I accept that for some people the best driving experience is simply getting from A to B but for me and anyone else I know driving is also about being in control of the car. No matter what way you shape the argument driving an auto removes a large part of the control of the engine of the car. You may argue that it allows you to concentrate more on the road in front of you and steering and such but I prefer to be in total control of what gear I'm in at a particular time.

Once again I apologise if I offended but chill out a bit, I was just expressing an opinion. Less of the "f**k off" too please, doesn't do your argument any favours.

EDIT: asked unkel to fix my old account, this one doesn't seem to be starting too well!!

Guy:Incognito

bigkev49-2 wrote:

. No matter what way you shape the argument driving an auto removes a large part of the control of the engine of the car. You may argue that it allows you to concentrate more on the road in front of you and steering and such but I prefer to be in total control of what gear I'm in at a particular time.!

The only thing it removes is the stick to manually drag the car trhrough gears. .After a while of driving my car I can make it change gears when I want it to and be in the gear i want.

DubTony

OK bigkev, fair enough. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Try using the :rolleyes: :cool: things on the right. Sometimes my sarcometer isn't switched on. Apologies.

bigkev49-2

Stekelly wrote:

The only thing it removes is the stick to manually drag the car trhrough gears. .After a while of driving my car I can make it change gears when I want it to and be in the gear i want.

Can you do it as quickly as dropping a cog in a manual though?

To be honest I'm not gonna get too deep into this, I just made a smart comment and appear to be a lone culchie lost in a sea of dubs!

For anyone interested, automatic tractors are particularly crap to drive!!:D

bigkev49-2

DubTony wrote:

OK bigkev, fair enough. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Try using the :rolleyes: :cool: things on the right. Sometimes my sarcometer isn't switched on. Apologies.

And with that all was calm in the land of the petrol-head boardsies again!

Sure I have to try and get on with ye dubs, have another 2 years in Bolton St. before I return to the Real Capital (debate for another day DubTony me old mate!!!)

Esel

GTC wrote:

Those that enjoy driving hard on back roads pushing a car would probably not consider autos.

So, are you saying that auto boxes are not much used in rallies, or that boy racers in rural areas don't like autos?

Or is it OK to 'drive hard on back roads pushing a car', as long as you are enjoying yourself?

Any opinion on RWD v FWD?

nialler

esel wrote:

So, are you saying that auto boxes are not much used in rallies, or that boy racers in rural areas don't like autos?

Or is it OK to 'drive hard on back roads pushing a car', as long as you are enjoying yourself?

Any opinion on RWD v FWD?

Two words

TORQUE STEER

_Kaiser_

Regarding the use of the gearbox: Once you get used to it, you can easily control what gear it's in, and personally I don't see what's so great about having to do all the work manually - especially in Dublin commuter traffic, or even the open road. The automatic is a lot less stressful too I find.

As far as the correct usage of the box goes, I generally leave mine in D all the time, and N when stopped at lights. I wasn't given any guidance when doing lessons as to the "right" way to do it, but this work for me. She's also a lot quicker off the line than most manual cars which can be useful too - for example when crossing a busy junction on an N-road.

ninty9er

rocky wrote:

True story

I too drove an auto today for the first time. Granted it's a 1L micra :eek: :rolleyes: , I don't think it would be much 'livelier' in a manual. very very confortable in traffic and even on open roads. Stick it in D and bob's your uncle.

I've heard about 'kickdown' before, I just thought there was the transmission that 'felt' you put the pedal to the metal and just changed down a few gears (this micra, when I do this , likes to send me in all I can describe as 1st gear , because she's revving over 5500 RPM... ). Anyways, I didn't realize there is a button (under the pedal I would presume?) that actually does that... unless you are all joking

Now I'm drooling after the DSG, get me some pover and such a box. :eek:

Well there was definitely a b utton in the Beemer, kick it and come back off, when I tried a second time when picking up speed to merge onto a dual carriage way the revs went to 6k rpm as I didn't come off fast enough....

rebel.ranter

I agree with GTC about autos going into corners, in manual for some corners you tend to gear down before hand where as with an auto you go barrelling into the corner in the gear the car decides on, only gearing down when it senses it needs to. Hence that uneasy feeling at the back end, especially when doing some enthusiastic driving.
I also notice that the brake pedal has to get a lot more use in an auto, I am a fan of the engine/gearbox braking. It comes from driving cars like the original VW Beetle/Mini where drum brakes all round were the order of the day.

On the cost/value of an auto, I always found that puzzling it costs you more to get it but it will devalue the car when it comes to selling it on 2nd hand??? I for one would insist that any luxury saloon has an auto box but I would turn my nose up at a small car with an auto. Have we all been brain washed into thinking these notions?
As regards when to put the car in N or D at the lights etc. I'm still a little grey in that one. I suppose being used to a manual would make you inclined to put it in N. In the handbook fo rthe car it says to leave it in D for brief stops, butto put it in N when you are going to be stopped for longer periods. How long is longer periods? I see others just leave it in D all the time which is probably incorrect to. Is there a definitive length of time that is best?

GTC

You can leave the car in D for prolonged periods if you like, it won't damage the car. The issue is that people forget they're in D, and release the brake pedal, and the car creeps forward and dings someone in the rear.

N is good if you're sitting in a snake of traffic waiting for traffic lights. I used to put the old camry in N if I was in the middle of a queue for traffic lights.

GTC

Oh, and on the manliness issue of the auto box, ditto with bigkev, it looks less masculine alright. Unless you drive a big car like a Lexus LS400 or a GS300 or similar Merc or Audi etc.

mike65

The Atheist wrote:

I've been driving an auto for about a month now and love it. It's a 70's SL, only three speed, but smooth as you like. AND it's got a kickdown button which really does give you a kick.

Whats a 3 speed box like at say motorway speed? I have this image of the engine at 4000 rpm!

Something I've found since I went auto is that small roundabouts are much more fun! Whereas in a manual your have to be at the right speed to change down as you keep an eye on the traffic from your right then change up again as you go through out the exit, with the auto its brake then P-WHAR ON! And you fly out the other side leaving all an sundry in your wake.

Mike.

rebel.ranter

Another thing, I know 0-60mph times are always shown to be slower for an auto. But as Mike65 says you definitiely feel like you are progressing a lot faster in an auto. I drove an auto equivalent of my manual and it definitely felt faster.

OH was thinking of doing this conversion:

http://e46.mit.edu/PaddleShift_Retrofit_Project.htm

More for the novelty of doing the project than any gains I would get from having it. What do you reckon?? I probably would not use it after the first week!!

milltown

On the 0 - 60 point, the figures stated for the manuals are reached with something less than mechanical sympathy and depend on the clutch being dumped at the right time to balance wheelspin with power and all the upshifts being timed just right. In the auto you can just plant the right foot an go, go, go. Or if you really feel the need to match the manufaturers figures, hold it on the brakes and rev it to 2 - 3000 rpm, then release.

nialler

For those of you used to engine braking (which I learned from an american car which suffered horrendous brake fade) autos do eat brakes, specially big autos. Though I'm not sure that engine braking is that common any more as most modern engines cut the fuel supply when hitting the brakes are slowing down making them much more fuel efficient, where if you engine brake you're popping the revs through the roof burning up fuel in the lower gears (I'm I correct in my thinking).

Anyway you do use brakes a lot more in an auto.

DubTony

This thread's definitely improving

A couple of things. I'm in total agreement with Ste regarding "choosing" a gear. after years of driving an auto it becomes second nature. However, since buying the Beemer I've noticed a couple of differences. Firstly the Beemer's a 323Ci and with 170+ horses it's sometimes not easy to tell what gear I'm in. (I've driven in manual mode a few times and tipped along nicely for over a mile in third). I imagine I'll get used to that in time, but if I'm unsure I slap the stick across and do it for myself. Somebody pointed out that cornering can be a bit hairy, especially if the car decides to change down at the wrong time. This happened to me at the end of January on an R road and unfortunately the back of the car did it's own thing. I ended up in the ditch. Anyway, I realised a couple of weeks after I got the car back that I'd been a bit ambitious on the bend and went into it at quite a bit more than optimal speed. The Beemers the first RWD car I've owned, the only thing previously being a Lite-Ace in the mid 80's. So the whole thing was quite new to me. It won't happen again.

N or D at lights? I don't have a lot of choice with the Beemer. Most autos I've owned allow you to change between N and D simply by pushing the lever. In the BMW I need to press the brake pedal before the car will go into D so I'm pretty much a fan of the brake and stay there technique. I was told a few years ago that leaving an auto in D will wear down the clutch quicker than changing to N when stopped, but another argument was put to me that moving between N and D all the time wears the clutch even quicker. So who knows?

Lot of talk here about the button under the accelerator. It's not on all autos. The Beemer's my first car to have one. It's the business. But I'm not using it at all. That thing will do some serious damage to your bank account, especially if it's a big engined BMW. In a tiptronic / steptronic / triptronic (take your pick) BMW in order to overtake there's very little reason to put the foot down much. In auto in 5th gear, slap it into sport to drop a gear, then pull back to drop another. By then you should be well on the way without any additional wear on your right ankle. If thats not enough, putting it into 2nd will bring those revs right up to the limit. It's a nice controlled way to do it without relying on the auto box. As for an auto box dropping a gear like a manual. I've never found one that did, but I'd be inclined to think that the better the car the closer you'll get to it. Te Beemer can seem slow changing down sometimes, but does it quicker in sport mode.

Sorry if I've rambled, I'm just off a 13 hour shift.

rebel.ranter

I'm just curious why you think using step down (button under accelerator) will cost you money? It was designed into the car and therefore it is there to be used.
Interesting point about the N/D at the lights debate.

Guy:Incognito

rebel.ranter wrote:

I'm just curious why you think using step down (button under accelerator) will cost you money? It was designed into the car and therefore it is there to be used..

Brcause If your accelerating hard enough dfor the pedal to be on the floor your revs will be high and you'll be using as much petrol as possible. Plus when it does drop the gear the revs will stay up and again, feul cinsumption will be high.

rebel.ranter

Fair enough, I thought you meant it would cause excessive wear on the engine or something. The reason I would say use it is because it gves the the most amount of power available at the most important time, i.e. when you are overtaking etc. It is really only used instantaneously so in the grand scheme of things I don't see that it will massively afffect the comsumption to such an extent that prevents you from using the facility.

DubTony

rebel.ranter wrote:

Fair enough, I thought you meant it would cause excessive wear on the engine or something. The reason I would say use it is because it gves the the most amount of power available at the most important time, i.e. when you are overtaking etc. It is really only used instantaneously so in the grand scheme of things I don't see that it will massively afffect the comsumption to such an extent that prevents you from using the facility.

It'll cost you a bloody fortune if you use it constantly. In a 323Ci it's like somebody sticking a rocket up your arse and sending you off. The acceleration is incredible. Like Ste says, you'll be dropping into 2nd gear at a point where the car is already being pushed. I'm not using it at all anymore, preferring the more controlled (I feel) option of changing down manually. But if you've never done it, you've got to try it at least once. (Empty motorway only please )

ninty9er

Am I correct in thinking that it's(the kickdown button) only to be hit and then lifted off...or do you floor until passed the dreaded slow coach in front???

rocky

ninty9er wrote:

Am I correct in thinking that it's(the kickdown button) only to be hit and then lifted off...or do you floor until passed the dreaded slow coach in front???

In my experience if you lift off the button the revs won't increase anymore -> no [quick] progress/acceleration

milltown

Keep the foot planted until you've passed. It will keep the 'box in the lowest gear possible without damaging the engine, keeping the revs up and the power flowing.

Mitch Connor

drove my brothers 1.8 auto A6 yesterday - freakin loved it. has got me looking out for an auto as my next car.

rocky

viva la revolucion!

Guy:Incognito

Have to say , I greatly enjoyed my trip to Newry on saturday, trundleing all the way up with cruise control.