Licence Fee Increases - Shooters Quite Unhappy.

FLAG

Hi Folks

An update, it appears that the renewals for 2007/8 will be for a single year, the three year licensing will not come into force until 2008.

Now the bad news reference the 2007 Finance act, when the three year lisence comes in 2008:
Rifle/pistol/revolver €170.00 each/3 years
Shotgun €115.00

Get this this Firearms Training cert aimed at 14 year olds and above, €170 for a rifle/pistol/revolver and €115.00 for a shotgun. Kinda defeats the purpose of introducing young people to the sport:

Range authorisations a snip at €1,000.00

And reloading certificate €90.00

Talk about rip off Ireland, any individual involved in the sport will really suffer!

Tourist rip off as well, €57.00 for a yearly pistol/revolver and rifle, so much for encouraging international competition to Ireland.

In any case extracts attached?

Now we need to see what can be done to change this, election coming up, lets see what 250,000 firearms lisence holders have to say!!!

Declan
FLAG

Clare gunner

Kind of odd E30 for a "prohibited weapon"??? How do you liscense somthing legally that is prohibited????

bullets

Might be a good time to ask for specific's on what happens
the money that we pay for the certs. and break down on
way its used. Be nice if some of it was used to in some way help
out the sport. It does not cost all that much for someone to punch in your
details into a computer and rubber stamp a bit of paper.

Surely under the freedom of information act that such a request could be
made (or can it?)

On the Ms office attachement is shows licence price for Crossbows ??
Did not think you could legally licence one in Ireland.

~B

Kramer

Absolute RIP OFF :mad: .

3 rifles, a couple of shotguns, a .22 pistol & the occassional bit of reloading.....

€1000 come renewal time :eek:

Another nice little earner for the cash starved boys in Leinster House.

Kramer

Clare gunner wrote:

Kind of odd E30 for a "prohibited weapon"??? How do you liscense somthing legally that is prohibited????

Sounds like a bargain to me! €170 (rifle) vs €30 (prohibited, whatever that might be???) .

Only in Ireland, only in Ireland.................

prohibited weapon licence :rolleyes:

FLAG

Clare gunner wrote:

Kind of odd E30 for a "prohibited weapon"??? How do you liscense somthing legally that is prohibited????

Lads

Don't get the nickers in a twist about prohibited weapons, the definition is ala the 1925 Firearms Legislation and does not reflect modern weapons for what you might think, they were then gas guns etc.

Clare gunner

So does that mean you can legally posses a can of Mace[prohibited weapon within the meanings of th FA 1925] if you apply for a E30 liscense.:rolleyes:

Sparks

FLAG wrote:

Now we need to see what can be done to change this, election coming up, lets see what 250,000 firearms lisence holders have to say!!!

How about "Don't call us Declan, we'll call you".

Honestly. As if noone saw this hike in charges coming from ten miles off. And now you're advocating what, that we go in to the Minister and tell him we'll vote him out for it, when we have no say in the matter?

Tell you what, if you have such a good working relationship with the man, why not go off and get this fixed?

:rolleyes:

We warned you this would happen, and you ignored us, and now clubs have to come up with a grand just to get their licence and even more to come up to spec in the first place, the demands on us as shooters have gone up just as much, and you're expecting us to row in behind you on another Don Quixote job?

I could sum up my response in about two words, but I don't think they could play it on radio if I did. :mad:

DJKH

Sparks wrote:

How about "Don't call us Declan, we'll call you".

Honestly. As if noone saw this hike in charges coming from ten miles off. And now you're advocating what, that we go in to the Minister and tell him we'll vote him out for it, when we have no say in the matter?

Tell you what, if you have such a good working relationship with the man, why not go off and get this fixed?

:rolleyes:

We warned you this would happen, and you ignored us, and now clubs have to come up with a grand just to get their licence and even more to come up to spec in the first place, the demands on us as shooters have gone up just as much, and you're expecting us to row in behind you on another Don Quixote job?

I could sum up my response in about two words, but I don't think they could play it on radio if I did. :mad:

Well Mark, there you go again, pi**ing me off with your unnecessary comments, if you think I had any direct responsibility for a decision made by the department of finance then you are badly mistaken.

We met with DOJ yesterday and a lot more progress was made on all matters.

But I am not going to open the door for more abuse by you, just pi** off and go argue with someone else, god knows you have lots of choice.

Declan

Please note this is a personal response.

Sparks

We met with DOJ yesterday and a lot more progress was made on all matters....
...But I am not going to open the door for more abuse by you,

Awwww.
You met behind closed doors with the DoJ representing me, but you won't tell me what happened?
I'm hurt.
Now, I'm going to have to officially demand a transcript from your boss in my capacity as secretary of the NTSA.
Gosh, that'll take all of three minutes.
What an inconvienence.

Sparks

Now, I'm going to have to officially demand a transcript from your boss in my capacity as secretary of the NTSA.

Done.
And in the event that he takes too long, I'll submit an FOI request to the DoJ.

Or, you could stop being childish, do your job, and circulate the results.

Your call.

Sparks

DJKH wrote:

We met with DOJ yesterday and a lot more progress was made on all matters.

By the way, you didn't point this out, but I think it's relevant; the Dail goes into recess shortly and every analyst is saying that the Minister won't be returned; so any "progress" you made is pretty much worthless anyway.

sidneyreilly

ENOUGH OF THE SLAGGINGS!!! This totally non productive. Get on with discussing mechanisms to counter this.

Sparks

Get on with discussing mechanisms to counter this.

Sidney, have you read the Act? We're boned, probably for the next few years.
The only thing that comes to mind is to sack the lot that got us into this mess in the first place and then try to start from scratch, because that's where we are at the moment.

Sparks

From the NARGC's page:
Proposed Firearms Licence
Renewal Prices as per the Finance Bill
Now x 3 Years Proposed per Finance Bill

Unlimited Shotgun Licence € 25 € 75 € 115
Limited Shotgun Licence € 6 € 18 € 30
Second and Subsequent € 6 € 18 € 30

Rifle € 38 € 114 € 170
Subsequent € 38 € 114 € 170

Junior Training Gun - - € 115
Junior Training Rifle - - € 170

Club Range Authorisation - - € 1,000
Firearms Dealer € 340

A 5 year Gun Licence in Nth. Ireland costs Stg£50 (€77) per
person for ALL firearms held !!

rrpc

I have to agree with Sparks here, the whole purpose if getting the 3 year licence introduced was (supposedly) to bring us into line with Northern Ireland and licence the holder rather than the firearm.

Instead of which we get this ballsed up interpretation and an excuse to rip us off.

Somebody certainly wasn't watching the ball here.

This is completely FUBAR

And as Sparks said, you'd want to have been fast asleep to not see this coming.

Vegeta

This is a joke.

Clare gunner

Lads,I hate to say it but did we honestly expect NOT to be ripped off in Ripoff Ireland????Or that we would actually do somthing in line with our EU neighbours,like a 5 year cert ala the UK???Or that it would be cheap & reasonable???
Anyways,no point in pussing about the spilt pint now,or bitching amongst ourselves. It will happen,if we dont do somthing about it.Hint ,hint election looming,opinions on the doorstep??]
And this is one thing that now affects ALL shooters.No one can sit this one out.Soo maybe we would be all better involved in thinking how to counter this somwhat,than slagging each other?????

Sparks

Lads,I hate to say it but did we honestly expect NOT to be ripped off in Ripoff Ireland?

No, that's why I kept saying that the three year licence was not any kind of boon that we'd gotten, and certainly not one that was worth the rest of the crap in the Firearms Act.
And please, don't be suggesting that just because this affects all shooters that we should row in behind DK's don quixote antics.
I'm ticked off enough at having to fork out over €500 in licence fees for no good reason while he runs about saying the Act is a good thing and that it's all for the best. :mad:

sidneyreilly

Sparks wrote:

Sidney, have you read the Act? We're boned, probably for the next few years.
The only thing that comes to mind is to sack the lot that got us into this mess in the first place and then try to start from scratch, because that's where we are at the moment.

And replace them with whom Sparks? You will not find many volunteers who wish to put themselves in the position to get regularly chastised on a public board. And remember apart from NARGC we are talking volunteers, such people who would volunteer would soon get disillusioned and chuck in the towel.

Anyway, enough of that. CG is correct, time to move ahead. Petition? March on the Dail?

Sparks

You've got to be kidding me sidney. You won't find volunteers so lets leave the same people in there to talk to the government in our names despite them having screwed the pooch beyond all recognition in the same job so far?

That's like saying that you wouldn't find too many volunteers to sit in the henhouse, so you may as well leave it to the fox!

Feck's sake.

And I notice that the NRPAI/SSAI/WhomeverWeAreToday didn't even blink at this supposed lack of volunteerism when they doubled the size of the NRPAI committee. And that groups like the ICPSA have no such troubles with finding volunteers to run assocations. And that all our local gun clubs and target shooting clubs don't stop overnight because suddenly people cease to volunteer.

And "put themselves in the position to get regularly chastised on a public board"? They wouldn't be in that position if they didn't hide what they did behind closed doors all the bloody time!!!

You want to move ahead? Forget about it. Until we sort out this sheer stupidity in how we have our associations set up, we aren't going to ever be able to move forward, and we all know it.

oldzed

lads , section 67(2) of the finance bill quotes that - an excise duty of €405 shall be charged ,levied and paid on every authorisation to posess, use, carry, sell or expose for sale a restricted firearm that is granted or renewed on or after 1 aug 2007.

I would really like to know whats on the restricted list now as the 995€ license bill I am facing could turn into 2365€ depending on inclusions or exclusions and much as i love and spend on the sport , I cant afford that.

If anybody has any idea I would love to hear it .

a very concerned oldzed

sidneyreilly

Sparks, anyone who would be stepping in to replace personal in SSAI or whatever organization would be going in at the deepend without some establishment in place. It would be disastrous.

Also you need not lecture me on volunteering, I do more voluntary things for shooting then I frankly have time for, same as your good self. You would not however find me volunteering for a "clean slate" committee of the umbrella body for shooting sports in the country. If such a group requires change then it needs to be gradual.

Anyway, again we have gone away from problem at hand, any suggestions as to how to counter this? Petitions etc..?

oldzed

page 124 from the link below
http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/publications/finance%20bill%202007/FinanceBill2007.pdf

civdef

This is a friggin bummer.

Sparks

oldzed wrote:

lads , section 67(2) of the finance bill quotes that - an excise duty of €405 shall be charged ,levied and paid on every authorisation to posess, use, carry, sell or expose for sale a restricted firearm that is granted or renewed on or after 1 aug 2007.

Well. I have to admit, I thought they'd be less straightforward than that, but I guess it'll do the job they intended the restricted list to do, namely, a de facto ban.

I would really like to know whats on the restricted list now as the 995€ license bill I am facing could turn into 2365€ depending on inclusions or exclusions and much as i love and spend on the sport , I cant afford that.

So would I but what I've heard is that the SI the bodies were shown has now been changed (by having things added to it). I haven't seen the new SI, but from what I hear, unless you're shooting with air pistol, air or .22lr rifle or shotgun, it's on the list.

Sparks

sidneyreilly wrote:

Sparks, anyone who would be stepping in to replace personal in SSAI or whatever organization would be going in at the deepend without some establishment in place. It would be disastrous.

Really? How interesting. Tell me sidney, WHAT THE HELL DO YOU CALL THIS THEN?

If such a group requires change then it needs to be gradual.

If? If?
And gradual? We've just gradually gotten ourselves to a point where we can just about kiss our sport goodbye. We're now up there with sailing or golf in terms of how much you have to lay out to start, and we don't have their appeal to the executive looking to do very little and have a few drinks on a sunny weekend.

Anyway, again we have gone away from problem at hand, any suggestions as to how to counter this? Petitions etc..?

I've asked a few friends in the Greens and Labour for ideas, but I don't know of any legal mechanism to counter this, because it's all perfectly legal thanks to the Firearms Act 2006. We might have had a chance with petitions and the like before the CJB went through. Now, we're right up the creek without a paddle.

Sparks

See, this is what happens when I read Declan's interpretation of legislation instead of reading it myself directly.

According to the Finance Bill 2007, these new charges come into effect this year, not in 2008.

The relevant phrase being on or after August 1, 2007.
Meaning I have to stump up €510 in 5 months time. Cheers for that there Declan, nice bit of representing, that.
:mad:

civdef

I suppose there's no chance we can discuss the issue without the personal stuff? Far too important to be clouded with grudges and digs.

Sparks

You'll have to excuse me civ, I just learnt I need to find €500 from somewhere in a fairly tight budget on a fairly tight timescale, because of a firearms act I opposed from the moment we saw it, while Declan said I was an idiot for doing so and that the act was a great success. And now that we're starting to see the hammer come down, all he can say is "oh well, let's move on". No apology for screwing the pooch, no admission that the way things were done was wrong, no hope that maybe we'd learn from our mistakes and change our approach, no, it's just straight back up onto the back of that donkey and straight back at the windmill. :mad:
And to top it off, he goes off saying that he's meeting the DoJ on our behalf but won't give us the details?
I've had enough of it. I'm done with FLAG and the NRPAI/SSAI/Whatever and I've had it up to here with this "fight The Man" approach.

sidneyreilly

civdef wrote:

I suppose there's no chance we can discuss the issue without the personal stuff? Far too important to be clouded with grudges and digs.

Yes please

Sparks

Will it matter anyway in the end Sidney? These fees will knock out the younger members of the sport because €170 is too much for them; it'll knock out the retireees because €170 or €405 is too much for them, and neither group gets a discount and both are vital to the sport. This isn't the final nail in the coffin for the sport, but it's definitely over the half-way mark.

The only way we can afford to keep the sport going is for us all to give up our firearms licences and donate our firearms to the clubs, who then get an authorisation for their use and storage. But that's just delaying the inevitable, because the next thing will be that the authorisations (now free) will suddenly be charged for or refused or will get saddled with a dozen conditions.

Basicly, we're boned.

Vegeta

everyone here is in the same boat. We have been shafted. We need to get it changed.

I believe demanding a detailed breakdown of
(a) why the price has gone up
and
(b) where the money goes
is the first step.

I am of the opinion that it should go directly back into shooting, road tax does (to roads obviously), tv license does so why not firearms license.

Sparks

Doesn't matter if it goes back into shooting Veg; it has to come out of shooting to do so, and how many under-16s do you know who can afford €170 for a training licence? And this the week of the report from the ISC about sport and underprivileged kids as well :mad:

civdef

Something tells me quiet work by the likes of the NARGC will be a lot more effective than the bickering and sniping we see here.

Sparks

I'm a bit tired of all this "quietness" to be honest Civ. The finance Act (yeah, I've just checked and it went through the report stage and is now law and not alterable) was nice and quiet. The drafting of the restricted list has been nice and quiet. The drafting of the CJB2004 stuff was nice and quiet. About the only time we've not been screwed over or sold out has been when things were good and loud, in my honest opinion.

And frankly, if we'd bickered and sniped a bit more earlier, we'd be better off now.

Sparks

Okay, so I do have one or two small bits of good news. Not much compared to todays ton of bricks, but here they are for what good they'll do.

A signed letter from the Minister (which isn't as good as legislation or an SI, but seems to be the best we can get so far):





The two little bits of good news are that hunters zeroing their firearms are now explicitly recognised by the Minister as not being engaged in target shooting and thus are exempt from section 4A of the Act (which required them to be on a range under serious penalties); and so NARGC gun clubs don't need to pay €1000 for range fees or build ranges; And that clay pigeon ranges are specifically exempted from the same requirements.

The new license fee is more expensive then my air pistol.... great

Clare gunner

OTOH if we are all going to be forking out grands for shooting,we are going to be able to sound off even louder in public as to how put upon we are by the Irish Govt,and showing what sort of greedy Bstds are running us and not giveing one iota back into the sport.Phryrric I know.....:mad:

I did point out awhile ago when the CJB was going thru,we should have been at Mc Dowells clinic handing in a letter of protest.I dont think "intrested parties" as individuals are paid any attention.You need a crowd with media attention to get any sort of results.Are we going to do anything with an election coming up?

Sparks

Clare gunner wrote:

OTOH if we are all going to be forking out grands for shooting,we are going to be able to sound off even louder in public as to how put upon we are by the Irish Govt,and showing what sort of greedy Bstds are running us and not giveing one iota back into the sport.Phryrric I know.....:mad:

Not to mention that the reduced numbers will result in an overall reduction in our already rather miniscule amount of clout.

I did point out awhile ago when the CJB was going thru,we should have been at Mc Dowells clinic handing in a letter of protest.I dont think "intrested parties" as individuals are paid any attention.You need a crowd with media attention to get any sort of results.Are we going to do anything with an election coming up?

Like? A march? See the anti-iraq war march. A petition? Yeah, 'cos it'll be heeded.

Unless we can vote out a Minister or buy one, direct political conflicts are never going to work for us

bullets

There is going to be an AWFUL lot of shooters out there that
will not know about the price hikes until it comes time to renew their licence/s.
Not everyone surfs the boards and I dont see these price hikes
being advertised or any way that current firearms holders are being
informed in advance about them.

You may have a lot of people in Ireland that own firearms that all
of a sudden may be restricted and they could be in for an awful shock.

If there was a way for everyone that has a licence to be sent a letter
or informed of the changes nationwide there may be a bit more of a reaction
than just the ol net junkies like ourselves.

~B

Clare gunner

Thats a Fact Bullets. Wonder what will happen when ol Paddy Joe down the country gets the bill on July 31st for his ol shotgun??? Straight off to the farmers unions to complain.Dont worry in the hubbub of the election,it will be forgotten about to inform us minority about the increase.
Sparks,
to use your example of the anti war demos.Yes,big news when it happened,but the anti American crowd[and I will use that term,as really this has nothing to do with being anti war ,but anti American policy].They were so eclectic in their views and had so many different cheifs wanting so many different things,as well as the usual contingent of prima donnas,martinets,and princesses having hissy fits that the wasted whatever advantage they had in public favour.[Hmm that does sound fammilar....:) ]Plus they were lesbians had beards and werent up much on washing.:D[tounge firmly in cheek] So who will take that seriously.?
Indymedia is full of them ranting at each other.Be that as it may,at least they protest and hold some sort of demo about their greivances,[apart from bashing the odd US Navy aircraft as well.]
When was the last time Irish shooters did such??? We rely too much on comitties behind closed doors,old boy trust and Dail lunches.It is about time the little folks said their piece as well,as we only hear from the above three when it is all over,if at all,and what THEY want to tell us.
Thinking more along the line of a bunch of us showing up at Mc Dowells/Aherns/Cowens door and handing in a petition of why not one undersigned of the shooters will vote for him in the election or his party .

It was in the Dec/Jan Shooters digest ,that NARGC was going to run an independant canditate on the shooting issues.Who,what,when,where? Has anyone heard about this further?It is somthing that should be seriosly considerd.I mean,which politican would not give their eye teeth for grauenteed of 250k voters,at least 80k? Ok,I know you will say there other issues bothering us all more importantly than shooting..BUT I for one,will make sure that my vote is going to the most pro gun party canditate that darkens my door.Maybe this is the time to ask ourselves what is more important pirorities to us in our bread and circuses,and wether to put up or shut up about the state of Irish shooting in the future. We have achived,wether by accident or design a change in fortune for 30 odd years of nothing.Now,this election will show,are we willing to push beyond our miniscule number in noise and weight.[Remember in the 1980s in the UK,it only tookappx 100 hardcore activists to pretty much smash the poll tax.Somthing 1000% more important than shooting ever was.]
OR will we just be content to leave it to our elected organisations,or" arra couldnt be arsed to do anythin" attitude,or just slag each other off,about who did what when they shouldnt have,for another 30 plus years???It's now YOUR choice reading this.Do Somthing,and at least know you tried and won/lost/drew.Or sit on your ass,do nothing,and complain?If you take the 2nd option you will deserve everything that befalls us as Irish shooters in the future!!!!

Sparks

Clare gunner wrote:

Wonder what will happen when ol Paddy Joe down the country gets the bill on July 31st for his ol shotgun?

I wouldn't worry CG, if what I hear is true, phones have been ringing off hooks all day long over this.

Sparks,
to use your example of the anti war demos.Yes,big news when it happened,but the anti American crowd[and I will use that term,as really this has nothing to do with being anti war ,but anti American policy].They were so eclectic in their views and had so many different cheifs wanting so many different things,as well as the usual contingent of prima donnas,martinets,and princesses having hissy fits that the wasted whatever advantage they had in public favour.[Hmm that does sound fammilar....:) ]Plus they were lesbians had beards and werent up much on washing.:D[tounge firmly in cheek] So who will take that seriously.?

Yeah. It was, after all, only the second largest march in the history of the Irish state. And was only replicated in the major towns and cities nation-wide. And they were after all, not being quiet about it.


Of course, there were more bearded lesbians walking about that day than there are shooters in Ireland, but that's not important in a democratic system where they count votes, is it?

When was the last time Irish shooters did such??? We rely too much on comitties behind closed doors,old boy trust and Dail lunches.It is about time the little folks said their piece as well,as we only hear from the above three when it is all over,if at all,and what THEY want to tell us.

You know what?
I'd have to agree.

It was in the Dec/Jan Shooters digest ,that NARGC was going to run an independant canditate on the shooting issues.Who,what,when,where?

Pfff. Waste of time. Maybe if we all lived in one constituency, but we don't - we're spread out (and thinly at that) round the nation. Even if we all voted at once, we wouldn't have a veto on even one TD. This whole "fight The Man" mentality is what's killing us.

Now, a grassroots movement, some twenty people a day showing up in someone's voting clinic, all arguing for better firearms legislation, while a body that didn't want 50 cal rifles for every ten-year-old; that would do some good.

Clare gunner

Yeah. It was, after all, only the second largest march in the history of the Irish state.

Being abit OT,but what was the largest march in the Irish state history??When somone threatened to bomb the Guiness brewery???:rolleyes: I was in Amsterdam on that day and the Dutch only botherd with 20k, in the Dam and the Hauge and they HATE the Americans with a passion post 9/11!!!
So I do take the stats of 250k abit liberally.

Of course, there were more bearded lesbians walking about that day than there are shooters in Ireland, but that's not important in a democratic system where they count votes, is it?

Maybe,if it was held closer to a general election possibly it would be.And lets face it,there is /was more at stake than a few hundred GIs knocking down the pints at Shannon.Nor do the beardies have money to fill the coffers at the race tent in Galway.:rolleyes:

You know what?
I'd have to agree.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
you do...???? Cough ..splutter[off for a stiff Jack Daniels]. A First ,Sparks actually AGREES with me!!:D

Pfff. Waste of time. Maybe if we all lived in one constituency, but we don't - we're spread out (and thinly at that) round the nation. Even if we all voted at once, we wouldn't have a veto on even one TD. This whole "fight The Man" mentality is what's killing us.

Just on that point;maybe somone can explain this voting process to me.If say,I dont want to vote for any of my local shower,cos they dont intrest/or repersent me properly.Is it possible to say,I want to vote ,but for mr X and he is in another consituency.is it possible to transfer votes to that canditate from outside his area??

Now, a grassroots movement, some twenty people a day showing up in someone's voting clinic, all arguing for better firearms legislation, while a body that didn't want 50 cal rifles for every ten-year-old; that would do some good.

That sounds dooable in every major town,city,barn ,dog and out house and reasonable,and I dont know of such an august body with such a outlandish demand here or anywhere else. Do we have any takers????

Sparks

Clare gunner wrote:

Being abit OT,but what was the largest march in the Irish state history?

The PAYE protests in '79. Go after an Irishman's pockets...

I do take the stats of 250k abit liberally.

Don't. It was that big.

A First ,Sparks actually AGREES with me!!:D

Well feck it, it can't get too much worse than this, can it?

Just on that point;maybe somone can explain this voting process to me.If say,I dont want to vote for any of my local shower,cos they dont intrest/or repersent me properly.Is it possible to say,I want to vote ,but for mr X and he is in another consituency.is it possible to transfer votes to that canditate from outside his area??

Yes. You move house to the desired area and reregister there.
See what I mean about us being too spread out?

oldzed

a question .
if its 405 euro for the authorisation for a restricted firearm do we also have to pay the 170euro for a licence on top of this bringing it up to a lovely 575 € per gun ??
I feel sick since reading this today, I remember getting my first shotgun in 1988 and the licence was 13£ and my first rifle in 1990 and i think it was 18£, I remember going mad when the rifle went to 25£ and thinking it was really unfair . Now I dont know what to do as i have 4 rifles a pistol and 2 shotguns and without knowing whats on the restricted list , i reckon the pistol , 2 rifles , and both shotguns may be restricted so thats 5 @ 405€ + 2 @170, or 5 @ 575 and 2 @170 so its probably 2365 or 3225 and to think i was pissed off last year handing over 221€. I am also worried that there will be no resale value on the restricted firearms as very few will be willing to shell out 400 odd to license them, so selling a few is probably not an option either.

its like a sick joke waiting to see are my guns on the restricted list and even if they arent im still going to have to shell out a thousand euro to keep them .


what a complete shafting we have received.

a very despondent oldzed

Sandy22

Sparks wrote:

Well. I have to admit, I thought they'd be less straightforward than that, but I guess it'll do the job they intended the restricted list to do, namely, a de facto ban.

Doesn't Section 67 just apply to authorisations for dealers?

babybundy

hey lads just wondering could we compile a price list for all licence fees (not the dog licence either )

Sparks

Sandy22 wrote:

Doesn't Section 67 just apply to authorisations for dealers?

Looks like it. However, they still have to pay €405 to buy a firearm to sell on, which means the price of pistols and fullbores just jumped by €405 (unless gun dealers just became altruists).
Better than €405 every three years I suppose. Now you just pay it once...

Sparks

The NARGC's website did that for us:
http://www.nargc.ie/License%20Fees

SHOOTING COMMUNITY ABOUT TO BE HIT BY MASSIVE GOVERNMENT INCREASES



The Irish shooting community, incorporating both hunters and competitive target shooters, is about to be hit by exorbitant increases in firearms licence fees. The proposed fees appear in the Finance Bill 2007 and represent an enormous increase which cannot be explained by inflation or increased costs. In fact, as the licences are to be issued only every three years as opposed to annually, which has been the case up to now, there is a strong argument for a reduction in the fees to reflect the substantial saving in administration costs in two out of every three years.



The shooting and hunting associations, which represent more than 250,000 fieldsports enthusiasts are extremely angry, particularly as there was no consultation of any kind with them before the proposed fees were included in the Bill.



Des Crofton, Director of the largest of the associations, the National Association of Regional Game Councils with 27,000 gun club members, said the anger among his members is palpable. “The Government has definitely misjudged the reaction of shooting people. The fee for a rifle licence will rise to €170 for three years whereas the current fee for the same period (on an annual basis) is €114. This ignores the substantial savings which will be achieved by issuing the licences every three years instead annually. It represents an increase of 49.12%, much more when allowance is made for the saving in administration costs, which is simply unjustified. This Government clearly intends to rip us off before leaving office. The level of increases for other classes of firearms are even higher with a shotgun licence rising from €75 over three years to €115, an increase of 53.33% and second or limited shotgun licences from €18 to €30, an increase of 66.66%.”

Worst of all, it will cost a young person who wishes to train before taking up the sport €115 for a training licence for a shotgun and €170 for a rifle training licence, even though the training licence will not allow the licensee to own or possess a firearm.



Des Crofton said it is also significant that it is proposed to charge €1,000 for a target shooting club to be authorised and €1,000 for a range authorisation while in the commercial gun trade, a gun dealer’s licence is proposed to be only €340. He stressed that his members are involved in a sport and the Finance Bill proposals are nothing more than an invidious attempt to strangle the sport by putting it out of the reach of ordinary rural people.



Mr Crofton said this is an outright attack on shooting and hunting and he wishes to remind government candidates in particular that his Association has a club in almost every parish in the country. He said NARGC is also a Seanad nominating body and no party associated with these increases can expect any support from NARGC.



In a sample telephone canvas of NARGC members yesterday, feelings were running high.



ENDS



5TH April 2007

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Proposed Firearms Licence
Renewal Prices as per the Finance Bill
Now x 3 Years Proposed per Finance Bill

Unlimited Shotgun Licence € 25 € 75 € 115
Limited Shotgun Licence € 6 € 18 € 30
Second and Subsequent € 6 € 18 € 30

Rifle € 38 € 114 € 170
Subsequent € 38 € 114 € 170

Junior Training Gun - - € 115
Junior Training Rifle - - € 170

Club Range Authorisation - - € 1,000
Firearms Dealer € 340

A 5 year Gun Licence in Nth. Ireland costs Stg£50 (€77) per
person for ALL firearms held !!

flight93

Does anyone know how much a pistol licence will cost? When are these increased fees ment to happen?