23-27yr old and saving for a house :(

easyontheeye

does anyone in the mid 20s age group feel they have to save for a house because of the never ending house prices and in doing so are missing out on all the more fun things they could be doing with their money. World trips, weekends away with the lads/girls.. pricey hobbies, splashing out on that 800 euro bag/playstation 3 etc .. my head is wrecked having to feel obliged to save most of money to prevent being forced out of the property market forever!!

RobertFoster

I plan to murder my parents once they finish paying off their mortgage (so long as the life insurance and wills are up-to-date) and blame it on the dog.

Shhh, don't tell Rover! >_>

PeakOutput

well first of all buying a bag over a ps3 is patently ridicolous and you should be shot for thinking it

i think a great way to get on the property ladder is to buy a house with friends who are trying to do the same thing...share for 5/6 years..........that way you need to save up for say a quarter of the deposit and instead of throwing your money away renting AND saving you are effectively saving by paying the mortgage as you will have equity in your house when you decide to sell it............

I'm feeling that now due to rent and bill's but it's partially my fault

constitutionus

well on the plus side it does look like the recessions kicking in so you may get something cheap

that said your not the only one. most of the people i know took out SSIAs expressly for buying a house and theyre completly lost now cause of the ambiguity in the market and the hmming and hawing over stamp duty they dont know what to do. theyre still gonna get the house put dont know when to take the plunge. that groups in their 30's now and having just finished saving myself i can honnestly say it was the worst 5 yres of my life.

dont know myself having cash again

PeakOutput

i dont think theres a "recession" coming..............all the economists are saying the boom is over but that does not equal a recession it just means reasonable average rates of growth. all this talk about bubbles bursting is scaremongering i think. the only ambiguity in the market is a political promise to reduce stamp duty meaning people are deciding to not buy for another few months

this is the expert economists opinion bythe way not mine i just happen to agree with them

Jigsaw

I come from near Belfast and would gladly go over the border for a good house price. House prices are insane here. Ireland is a small country. If I lived in Dublin, I'd only be 2 hours from my house where my parents live. They mean a lot to me. I could find myself in Dublin very soon. I love Dublin but I would never move somewhere because I thought i was good. Life is hard for the twenty something these days. It is true!!! Life is hard these days for the "young professional".

phantom_lord

that's why I plan on winning the irish open.sorted.

ChRoMe

If I ever buy property it wont be in Ireland. I dont understand friends of mine getting 400k loans and buying houses here. It really doesnt seem to be value for money for the type of house that you get. I'd quicker buy two apartments abroad somewhere and rent them out.

Ruu_Old

RobertFoster wrote:

I plan to murder my parents once they finish paying off their mortgage (so long as the life insurance and wills are up-to-date) and blame it on the dog.

Shhh, don't tell Rover! >_>

Same.

Seriously though, not going to buy property in Ireland any time soon. Never had too many problems saving or feeling left behind. Done my share of travelling and still at it some of the time through work. I have a nice house in midwest USA and I'm extremely happy with it and the price I paid for it.

There's no way in hell I'd pay the completely unreasonable prices for property here, we have a nice cottage 15 mins away from the nearest town in co meath and it was still 200k, I mean, it's a cottage not a mansion
If I settle down in ireland I'm not getting a stupidly high mortgage to pay off forever, I refuse!!

jester77

easyontheeye wrote:

does anyone in the mid 20s age group feel they have to save for a house because of the never ending house prices and in doing so are missing out on all the more fun things they could be doing with their money. World trips, weekends away with the lads/girls.. pricey hobbies, splashing out on that 800 euro bag/playstation 3 etc .. my head is wrecked having to feel obliged to save most of money to prevent being forced out of the property market forever!!

Who says you have to buy a house

Live life while you are in your 20's because in 10-15 years you'll probably be married with kids and you won't get that chance again. Time enough getting a house then when you really need it. I enjoyed every minute of my 20's, lots of travelling, partying and got to do everything I wanted. Don't have a house but don't care, absolutely no regrets. I look at some of my friends and going out a Satuday night for a few pints and the annual summer budget travel trip away was as good as it got for them.

Stephen

I haven't a hope of ever affording a house/apartment/shoebox in this country by myself at current prices.

/waits for housing market to collapse

Naked Lepper

im 22 and have been living away from home since i was 19 due to personal choice
i have no intentions to buy a house anyyyy time soon
im just gona keep living from month to month and enjoying my youth/money/time

life is way too short to worry about bits of paper at this stage.. and when the ecenomy crashes, just move on to warmer brighter places! ireland was depressing before the money came along and its not going to be here forever! dont tie yourself down to a 40 year ball and chain just yet

skywalker

PeakOutput wrote:

well first of all buying a bag over a ps3 is patently ridicolous and you should be shot for thinking it

i think a great way to get on the property ladder is to buy a house with friends who are trying to do the same thing...share for 5/6 years..........that way you need to save up for say a quarter of the deposit and instead of throwing your money away renting AND saving you are effectively saving by paying the mortgage as you will have equity in your house when you decide to sell it............

I wonder how would doing something like that affect your first time buyers status though?


Can definitely identify with what the OP is saying. Im 27 & only woke up recently to the fact Id have to be buying property at some stage & started seriously saving. I save around 40% of my wages nowadays but whether that will ever amount to a hill of beans is anyones guess.

Ruu wrote:

Same.

Seriously though, not going to buy property in Ireland any time soon. Never had too many problems saving or feeling left behind. Done my share of travelling and still at it some of the time through work. I have a nice house in midwest USA and I'm extremely happy with it and the price I paid for it.

Not asking what you paid for your house or anything ruu, but just curious, are prices there outside of big cities still in the 300-400k range or lower?

Mrs_Doyle

I'm saving for a house too, and have taken to reliving my student days.

I live at home so I'm very lucky in that I don't have any major outgoings, but there always seems to be some sort of unavoidable expenses that eat up my cash.

I had got into a routine of eating out, and ordering in. Those days are gone. It was costing me a fortune and I was fat (broke) bastard as a result.

As for hitting the pub at noon and drinking till dawn, not anymore. I'll have a few drinks at home, or at a mates house, and then hit the club at about 11 or 12. Even then I always try smuggle a little bottle of vodka in with me, to save being ripped off at the bar.

My major spending downfall is clothes. I absolutely love to shop. So, rather then give it up altogether (which would probably kill me) I swapped River Island for Bershka, Oasis for H&M and Warehouse for Penneys and Dunnes.

I still shop, but I don't spend half as much, and as its coming into the summer season little bright cotton tops are in fashion, which can always be bought in Berska and co. for a fraction of the River Island and Co. prices.

I owed €1200 to and A.I.B loan, so I took out a €1200 Credit Union loan to pay it off.

The Credit Union charge a lower interest rate and as I'm saving with them already they were only too happy to oblige. (Plus I'm building a credit rating with them)

I ditched the car and got a moped. I can fill the tank for €5 a week and my insurance was only €250 as apposed to the €890 I was paying on the car.
EDIT: And I get to work in 20-30mins, instead of the hour + it was taking via car/bus!!

As for holidays, well I'm definitely still taking one. I need to get out of this country at least once a year or I get extremely narky and fed up.
So instead of the usual 2 week package deal (which costs about €700, plus spends of about €1200) I'm booking a week off work in June and myself and my BF, and two of our mates, are going to take a cancellation deal at the last minute (which will cost about €300, plus spends of about €500 which will come in the form of holiday pay).

All in all I am spending way less, saving way more, and still having a rather enjoyable lifestyle!:)

ixoy

Don't let yourself be entirely dictated by having to own a property.

I'm finally thinking about it, but that's only after 4 years of enjoying city centre renting/living. I'm also lucky in that I'm not going to be buying alone, but with someone whom I want to share the rest of my days with, so it makes more sense for us to nest.

Thankfully, I've been reasonably prudent in my savings so we can afford to get on this path, but I never kept thinking "oh I can't do X because I might get a house in 5 years". That's no way to live. Worry more when you feel it makes mor sense for you.

Moonbeam

You need to make the decision if you want a house first or to go live the good life.

I rented for about 5 years before I bought a house in my early 20s,it is small,a bit of a train commute,I had to work multiple jobs to get the mortgage but I have to say I really prefer paying the building society every month for my house rather then a landlord.

My mortgage is more or less the same as what renting my house would be,although it has gone up 8 times due to interest hikes.
I have no long term intentions for it and will move on when things change or I decide to buy with someone else.
not payin gin to ssias anymore will be a huge bonus every month but it is definatly worth buying your own house if that is what you want:)

A Random Walk

ixoy wrote:

Don't let yourself be entirely dictated by having to own a property.

Exactly. Why do people in this country get so stressed out about the thought of not owning their house? Rent is not dead money despite what your relatives might waffle on about, rent is paying for a service where you no longer have to worry about repairs, appliances breaking or hassle in selling if you want to move.

It's always wise to save money and invest it sensibly, but you can't let it dominate your life. When you're lying on your deathbed you are probably going to regret not having fun and seeing the world when you were young, not that you never got to finish the decking in the front garden.

conor_mc

A Random Walk wrote:

Rent is not dead money despite what your relatives might waffle on about, rent is paying for a service where you no longer have to worry about repairs, appliances breaking or hassle in selling if you want to move.

Exactly - nobody ever points out that mortgage interest is rent, only on the money instead of the property.

The_Conductor

As pointed out above- you do have to make a conscious decision about your lifestyle choice. The boozy days of spending your money on restraunts, clothes, electronic gadgetry, cars, holidays etc are incompatible with what is a major decision in your life- buying a property.

While many people will moan about houses today being totally unreal (which they are), our parents were in not dissimilar positions. I was talking to an uncle over the weekend- he told me that when he got married in 1966 and bought his first house (which was a 3 bed semi in a not-so-good area) that money was a lot worse even then than it is today. Holidays- they were but a dream, they had no holidays for about 12 years (they recently had a lovely European tour to celebrate their 40th wedding anniversary). Clothes- were taken care of by large parcels of clothes which were sent 'home' by relatives in the US. Electronic gadgetry- well, insofar as it existed, a conscious decision had to be made to join the then 4 year waiting list for a phone line. Drink- that got brewed in the garage, and stored for special occasions. As for disposable expenditure- well if you budgetted properly you could decide which 2 weekdays you'd be able to afford a newspaper. This person is/was a well qualified process engineer with a good job at the time.

Contrast that with life today- sure its a bitch trying to save up, but you're in your 20s and your parents have not kicked you out of home. 20-30 years ago you'd have been out the door years ago. So- you're living at home on a full salary and frittering away your money. Why? Is that PS3/X-Box a necessity? Do you need 3 or 4 sun holidays a year? How much did you spend last night on the town? Is Imelda Marcos jealous of your shoe collection?

Saving money, for a house or for anything at all else, is a discipline- and sitting down and consciously deciding that we are going to forego something in order to save towards something else is almost a novel concept in what has become a throw-away world. In other words- people were used to discipling themselves and willing to look at the bigger picture years ago, whereas now we want it all, and we want it now.

Sure- houses are expensive- living is expensive....... You could sit down, look at your outgoings and see where you can cutback. When you actually sitdown and keep an honest track of where your money is going- it will be an eye opener for you. Is getting drunk a couple of nights a week really living? Those shoes which you *had* to buy- have you worn them more than once or twice? How much do you spend on cigarettes in a year? Does a world trip cost the earth- or are you willing to work your way around from country to country- as a lot of us did years ago? That bag with the label on it- is the status symbol worth that much to you- or would the satisfaction of having that money to spend on something less transient be worth more? The PS3- if you really want it- are you willing to accept cutbacks elsewhere to fund it, and actually use it, or will you instead be out clubbing/drinking leaving your purchase gathering dust at home?

Sure living is expensive, but you have to learn that life is about making a series of choices. They are your choices, and you have to live with the consequences of your own actions. If you end up aged 30 with nothing to show to your name, and dim memories of being drunk through your 20s- will that be worthwhile in your estimations?

Life is for living, yes. Part of living is growing up, accepting that your actions have consequences and making conscious choices.

conor_mc

Well said smccarrick.

Your 20's are for living it up, but I think that phrase has come to mean "go on a 10-year bender" to a lot of people. While I reckon most people would be better off taking life seriously and buying something tangible like a house (current market forecasts aside) rather than going on the piss in expensive shoes!

A better way of living it up, to my mind at least, would be seeing the world (not just Bondi) or as the OP says, indulging in expensive hobbies where you actually accomplish something, be it diving, learning to fly, sailing, whatever.

In other words, don't be afraid of spending your money - it's yours to spend. Just make sure you spend it well.

John Mason

RobertFoster wrote:

I plan to murder my parents once they finish paying off their mortgage (so long as the life insurance and wills are up-to-date) and blame it on the dog.

Shhh, don't tell Rover! >_>

LOL i am trying to get my parents to sign and enduring power of attorney and then off to the nut house with them and it will be all mine

Zambia

conor_mc wrote:

Well said smccarrick.
A better way of living it up, to my mind at least, would be seeing the world (not just Bondi) or as the OP says, indulging in expensive hobbies where you actually accomplish something, be it diving, learning to fly, sailing, whatever.

.

LOL ha the Bondi part is so true however you can learn to dive in Bondi , I did ....

Live it up however , DO NOT GO INTO DEBT to do so. ..waste the cash you have by all means...

By around 27 you should start ramping down ...

El Stuntman

phantom_lord wrote:

that's why I plan on winning the irish open.sorted.

lol you poker-playing degenerate gamblor

work for a living instead, it's lots of fun :eek:

godtabh

I've been saving for over a year. Over 60% of my take home pay goes to savings.

I havent missed out on stuff. I have my xbox 360 and 32' lcd screen and been to Iceland and other places over the last year.

I may not have got things straight away but I got them in the end.

I made the decision to buy a place. It wasnt cause I *had* to buy a house but because I felt the time was right.

There will be a hit in lifestyle fairly soon but I've accepted that. I'll continue to save and have the things I want but just not as fast as I want them.

Miguel_Sanchez

I'm 27 and don't want a house and couldn't afford one even if I did.

I've never been the 'settling' down type and know I will not own property until I'm well into my 30's (unless some crazy windfall comes my way).

godtabh

Does age come into it?

I know people from 20-35 group who both own property and who rent/live at home. I think its more than to the person rather than the age. Age does become a factor as you get older

Ruu_Old

skywalker wrote:

I wonder how would doing something like that affect your first time buyers status though?


Can definitely identify with what the OP is saying. Im 27 & only woke up recently to the fact Id have to be buying property at some stage & started seriously saving. I save around 40% of my wages nowadays but whether that will ever amount to a hill of beans is anyones guess.




Not asking what you paid for your house or anything ruu, but just curious, are prices there outside of big cities still in the 300-400k range or lower?

Much lower, I paid just over $80,000 for my 4 bedroom (I posted about it before in this forum somewhere I think), 1.5 baths (1300 sq ft) just outside a town of about 150,000 people. I haven't seen a house for anymore than $200,000 on the market and all those would be in the middle of a country club or something. There are property taxes each year though.
That said it is hard to compare where I am in a smallish, college town in Illinois to the bigger cities.

iguana

smccarrick wrote:

While many people will moan about houses today being totally unreal (which they are), our parents were in not dissimilar positions. I was talking to an uncle over the weekend- he told me that when he got married in 1966 and bought his first house (which was a 3 bed semi in a not-so-good area) that money was a lot worse even then than it is today. Holidays- they were but a dream, they had no holidays for about 12 years (they recently had a lovely European tour to celebrate their 40th wedding anniversary). Clothes- were taken care of by large parcels of clothes which were sent 'home' by relatives in the US. Electronic gadgetry- well, insofar as it existed, a conscious decision had to be made to join the then 4 year waiting list for a phone line. Drink- that got brewed in the garage, and stored for special occasions. As for disposable expenditure- well if you budgetted properly you could decide which 2 weekdays you'd be able to afford a newspaper. This person is/was a well qualified process engineer with a good job at the time.

In real terms my parents had a much harder time buying a house in Limerick in 1986, right at the trough of a downturn, than I did in London in 2006. They had to sacrifice way more than I did, for both years before and after they bought. I have had to make sacrifices sure, but nothing like they did. Perhaps having seen my parents make sacrifices in their 20's makes it a lot easier for me to make them now, because I know that I have it so much easier than they did and I know that I would rather sacrifice now than end up in a situation where I have to make worse sacrifices in the future.

skywalker

Ruu wrote:

Much lower, I paid just over $80,000 for my 4 bedroom (I posted about it before in this forum somewhere I think), 1.5 baths (1300 sq ft) just outside a town of about 150,000 people. I haven't seen a house for anymore than $200,000 on the market and all those would be in the middle of a country club or something. There are property taxes each year though.
That said it is hard to compare where I am in a smallish, college town in Illinois to the bigger cities.

wow its another world, where you can get a house for 80K. Even if the did sell you 1.5 baths :eek:

jester77

skywalker wrote:

wow its another world, where you can get a house for 80K. Even if the did sell you 1.5 baths :eek:

It's Ireland that's the problem, you can also get a house here in Germany for €80k!

godtabh

jester77 wrote:

It's Ireland that's the problem, you can also get a house here in Germany for €80k!

You wont get a house in Manhattan for $80k. I'm sure the same would apply in central Berlin or the like.

Places with high population density will have higher house prices compared to some where of lower density.

I'd also think that building a house (excluding land just materials) would cost you more than €80k. It would be very difficult to buy a house for €80k if it costs €120k to build

conor_mc

kearnsr wrote:

You wont get a house in Manhattan for $80k. I'm sure the same would apply in central Berlin or the like.

Places with high population density will have higher house prices compared to some where of lower density.

I'd also think that building a house (excluding land just materials) would cost you more than €80k. It would be very difficult to buy a house for €80k if it costs €120k to build

Seriously - high density, we don't even know the meaning of it. Dublin is a sprawl to the size of L.A. with less than a quarter of the population.

In fairness, Ruu's €80k house was in a smallish college town in Illinois - so lets compare that with, say, Carlow or Athlone.... not many 4-beds there for €65k is there?

jester77

kearnsr wrote:

You wont get a house in Manhattan for $80k. I'm sure the same would apply in central Berlin or the like.

But you can get a house within commuting distance of the city center for that price!

kearnsr wrote:

I'd also think that building a house (excluding land just materials) would cost you more than €80k. It would be very difficult to buy a house for €80k if it costs €120k to build

I've no idea what it costs to build a house but if you look through here you will see houses on sale for 80k or lower.

godtabh

conor_mc wrote:

Seriously - high density, we don't even know the meaning of it. Dublin is a sprawl to the size of L.A. with less than a quarter of the population.

I never mention Dublin

conor_mc wrote:

In fairness, Ruu's €80k house was in a smallish college town in Illinois - so lets compare that with, say, Carlow or Athlone.... not many 4-beds there for €65k is there?

Not a like for like comparison. Factor construction costs, materials, labour, building type, construction practice etc

jester77 wrote:

But you can get a house within commuting distance of the city center for that price!

Look at the whole life costs not the inital down payment. There is qol issues, travel issues etc.

jester77 wrote:

I've no idea what it costs to build a house but if you look through here you will see houses on sale for 80k or lower.

Not a like for like comparison. Factor construction costs, materials, labour, building type, construction practice etc

jester77

jester77 wrote:

you can also get a house here in Germany for €80k!

kearnsr wrote:

You wont get a house in Manhattan for $80k. I'm sure the same would apply in central Berlin or the like.

Berlin and Manhattan?! The likes of Dublin Cork Galway Waterford or Kilkenny etc cities are hardly comparable to central Berlin or Manhattan Agreed!
Also agree with Jester:

jester77 wrote:

It's Ireland that's the problem,

Too True!

kearnsr wrote:

Not a like for like comparison. Factor construction costs, materials, labour, building type, construction practice etc

For 80 thousand dollars I will have their construction practice any day

galah

excuse my asking, but construction practice in the US came up - would this be in a negative way? (just curious...)

Cause I would not call Irish houses well (or even remotely decently) built...(but maybe I misunderstood?)

godtabh

galah wrote:

excuse my asking, but construction practice in the US came up - would this be in a negative way? (just curious...)

Cause I would not call Irish houses well (or even remotely decently) built...(but maybe I misunderstood?)

Its the same in any contry. The end result is same but they way its gona about is different.

The point I was making was that if you gave a builder in america and a builder in ireland a layout for a house and let them go build it you would get the same house but built differently with different materials and at a different cost.

In fairness I think we have gone way off topic

kearnsr

kearnsr wrote:

In fairness I think we have gone way off topic

Yeah I think so! SmcCarricks post has some truth in it - but I suspect some of these holidays and new cars are as a result of irresponsible borrowing and lending.

To buy your gonna need to save (unless you want 100% mortgage) and buying a house is always a big issue and people always have and always will give out about how hard it is.
However I do think that the balance has been tipped against the average punter the past few years. And about comparing foreign countries - the grass is always greener (sometimes it is and sometimes it isnt!) - but many western countries have property bubbles at the moment.

Dubh Geannain

I can't commit to the same job at the moment. I certainly won't be thinking of buying a house for another 5 or six years at least, if ever in this country. As another poster said, unless I get an unexected windfall, my opinion won't change.

Calina

People always had to work hard to buy houses, yes, but currently:

1) I earn X amount of euros per year. To be able to buy a house within 30 minutes of where I work, I need to have saved 2X amount of euros and then, I can get a mortgage for the balance. That is, the maximum mortgage I can get, plus two years gross salary will buy me a house.

I can't actually, without the help of maybe 10 years, save the equivalent of two full years gross salary.

So you say to me: lower your expectations. Buy an apartment instead. I look at apartments. Currently, a one bedroomed apartment near where I work is some six times my gross salary. According to my calculations, to buy one of them, I need the maximum available mortgage, plus the equivalent of one year's gross salary by way of a deposit.

I have raised and lowered my expectations a lot of times. I earn enough to be more than comfortably shoved into the higher tax bracket, but not enough to acquire something on the latest affordable housing initiative. The point I am makig - right now - is no matter how hard someone like me saves, I will wind up with money at the end, but not enough to get a house or an apartment near where I live. The truth is, there are a lot of people out there that even i you tell them to save very hard...they are still cornered right now regardless.

Most comments along the lines of "it was always hard" I find are used to justify it still being hard. But you also have to look at it in other contexts. Banks have loaned more and more and more money - and it is still hard. When I came back to Ireland 8 years ago, you were talking 92% mortgages and 3X principle salaries. Now it's 100% and up to 5 or 6 times principle salaries. And people still can't afford houses regardless how hard they save.

In my opinion, many people in Ireland have completely lost sight of reality here. I have spent a good deal of time doing maths, a good deal of time visiting houses and I have spoken to a lot of bank people. People have told me to do everything to get on the ladder. I have looked at the bottom rung of that ladder - a one bedroomed apartment say - and questioned how I could possibly live in such accommodation. I've looked at a lot of them. They are not designed for people to live in. An awful lot of property built in the last five years, as far as I can see, has very little utility value. Kitchens off living rooms with no doors. Living rooms which no wall against which you can put a sofa. Kitchens with no worktop space.

So I look at the bottom run of the ladder and think it's not worth it. A lot of Irish people don't look at things critically. The key question which a lot of people have never answered is "can I live here if things go terribly wrong...".

I don't know when the housing market is going to magic itself into a rational market. I heard someone on Newstalk yesterday saying we were very lucky, we had achieved the soft landing. But we're only two months into what appears to be a correction. I thought the soft landing was property prices rising with inflation. But that's not what is happening. They are going into reverse - to the tune of less than a per cent - but in the face of inflation at 5% or so, that's hardly good news to begin with. And asking prices are off by up to 10% - and falling for many properties.

It's one thing for property to be very hard to afford when interest rates are 7%. If it's very hard to afford when they are 2% and rising - and now nearly 4% how much harder is it going to get? I keep hearing about how things are "different" here, that this fundamental, that that fundamental, immigration this, immigration that. If local people can't afford to buy houses, in the name of Christ, how rich will an immigrant have to be to afford to buy a house here? And really, how much would you want to given all the other grief there is in this country? I think we'll need an awful lot of them to fall in love with locals to be sure they will prop up the local property market too.

The_Conductor

Calina wrote:

So you say to me: lower your expectations. Buy an apartment instead. I look at apartments. Currently, a one bedroomed apartment near where I work is some six times my gross salary. According to my calculations, to buy one of them, I need the maximum available mortgage, plus the equivalent of one year's gross salary by way of a deposit.

Is it worth lowering your expectations in terms of what you want to buy. Surely the logical thing may actually be to lower your expectations in terms of *where* rather than *what* you want to buy? A 30 minute commute (or longer) is not bad- if its on reliable public transport and the location of your property is in an area that you are happy enough with.

Calina wrote:

I have raised and lowered my expectations a lot of times. I earn enough to be more than comfortably shoved into the higher tax bracket, but not enough to acquire something on the latest affordable housing initiative. The point I am makig - right now - is no matter how hard someone like me saves, I will wind up with money at the end, but not enough to get a house or an apartment near where I live. The truth is, there are a lot of people out there that even i you tell them to save very hard...they are still cornered right now regardless.

Do you have to live near where you are at the moment? I asked myself that back 8 years ago when I was renting in Rathmines. I'd love to live there- I couldn't afford it then, and I certainly can't now. Re: affordable housing- a single person earning over 70k will still qualify for affordable housing in some areas of Dublin- a rather bizzare situation. The property market is an unmitigated mess.

Calina wrote:

In my opinion, many people in Ireland have completely lost sight of reality here. I have spent a good deal of time doing maths, a good deal of time visiting houses and I have spoken to a lot of bank people. People have told me to do everything to get on the ladder. I have looked at the bottom rung of that ladder - a one bedroomed apartment say - and questioned how I could possibly live in such accommodation. I've looked at a lot of them. They are not designed for people to live in. An awful lot of property built in the last five years, as far as I can see, has very little utility value. Kitchens off living rooms with no doors. Living rooms which no wall against which you can put a sofa. Kitchens with no worktop space.

Very very true. People have this "buy property at any cost" mantra- irrespective of what you are actually buying. From what I see- the property market in the last few years has been an excellent manner of extracting money from FTBs and those trading up and transferring it to a tripartate of 1) the Older Generation, 2) Developers and 3) the Government. People seem to have lost track of all fundamentals. You are very right to question the feasibility of living long term in a lot of the boxes built recently.

Calina wrote:

I don't know when the housing market is going to magic itself into a rational market. I heard someone on Newstalk yesterday saying we were very lucky, we had achieved the soft landing. But we're only two months into what appears to be a correction. I thought the soft landing was property prices rising with inflation. But that's not what is happening. They are going into reverse - to the tune of less than a per cent - but in the face of inflation at 5% or so, that's hardly good news to begin with. And asking prices are off by up to 10% - and falling for many properties.

Soft landing my arse. The market in FTB boxes (errr apartments, if you want to stretch the imagination)- is being badly held together by developers offering to pay your first 6 or 9 months of mortgage, and even then asking prices in new developments are falling. There is no definition of a softlanding- one Galway developer that I was talking to says that a 30-40% fall would be a soft landing in his reckoning. Ouch..... Re: Falling prices in an era of inflation- the fall in real prices is thus inflation rate + actual fall- e.g. in the second hand market a 10% fall + inflation = a real fall of 15%. That is where we are at the moment.

Calina wrote:

It's one thing for property to be very hard to afford when interest rates are 7%. If it's very hard to afford when they are 2% and rising - and now nearly 4% how much harder is it going to get? I keep hearing about how things are "different" here, that this fundamental, that that fundamental, immigration this, immigration that. If local people can't afford to buy houses, in the name of Christ, how rich will an immigrant have to be to afford to buy a house here? And really, how much would you want to given all the other grief there is in this country? I think we'll need an awful lot of them to fall in love with locals to be sure they will prop up the local property market too.

There is a difference in Irish fundamentals- in that hitherto the property market has been largely underpinned by inward migration- which in turn propped up the rental market. Thus people were willing to buy property for letting purposes, totally ignoring the rental yield, secure in the knowledge that the deficit would be more than offset by the appreciation in property prices- something that is now in freefall. So- instead of a rise in property prices, they are falling- so a correction in rental yield ratios is underway- and a shipload of this property that just cannot pay for itself in rental yield is hitting the market- the knockon effect having a domino effect- leading to more and more people determined to exit at any cost.

In the midst of all of this- the favourable tax regime that brought a lot of multi-nationals to Ireland, has been undercut by some of the new member states- which means the net inward migration has now slowed in all but the construction industry and the public sector (notably nursing) (uhohhh.....)

So- the inward migration which underpined the spectacular rise in property prices is under question..... In addition- a lot of the multinational construction workers are simply economic migrants, rather than immigrants, and have no intention of staying here for long- e.g. London is going to need a load of them with the upcoming olympics shortly- so......

Just why people seem to be immune to putting two and two together is a little beyond me.

The upcoming election with Stamp Duty as an election issue, don't get me started. If they double the bands to say 650k duty free for all, and then all excess on a pro-rata basis- it might be tempting for those hoping to tradeup at some point in the future. It offers sfa for FTBs though- the majority of whom are below the cut-off anyway.

At the moment your rent is a lot lower than interest payments on a mortgagee for a similar property would be (and you also do not have to worry about falling asset prices) surely what you should do is obvious?

slickmcvic

wow...scary stuff,turnin 27 in August,No chance of affordin anythin where I live at this rate,Have a decent job drive a sporty car(which i've got an 8K loan for!),headin on an american roadtrip in June and I still feel like I'm only outta Uni and should be enjoyin meself!!
I hate this social pressure to invest in somethin...I keep thinkin a mortgage is gonna be end of the good times so I'm tryin to get my livin done now while I still can!!....I think I'm typical of a lot my age ...wanna have my cake and eat it!!!

Peter Collins

ChRoMe wrote:

If I ever buy property it wont be in Ireland. I dont understand friends of mine getting 400k loans and buying houses here. It really doesnt seem to be value for money for the type of house that you get. I'd quicker buy two apartments abroad somewhere and rent them out.

:rolleyes:

dear oh dear