Provisional Driver needing to use Motorways

Fizman

I'm driving 3 months (just turned 24) and in a few days i need to drive from Limerick to Swords for my job. I've already done Limerick to Naas. However, what is the general consensus with L-plates on the motorways (and i'm not looking for any high-horse lectures please)???

I was fortunate enough never to need a car through college....but now i'm in a decent job where i really need to get around to different sites. I've been to co. cork and galway already, and i'd regard myself as a comfortable driver (i know some of you will think a 3 month driver can't be too competant).

1. Are L-plates pulled on motorways? If so what is done about it?
2. If I take them off, but get caught in a routine check somewhere will i get into even more trouble??

I have to travel so any constructive advice is welcomed lads cheers.

ninty9er

use the AA route planner and click avoid motorways....you could always chance it, but the Traffic Corps are becoming more visible these days

Tony Danza

If I was you I'd go for it, doubt anything would happen if you did get pulled over.

Wossack

is it a once off trip? if so I'd risk it - otherwise not

leave the plates on though

BrandonBlock

I do it 5 days a week, I'm an L-driver been driving for 1 year. The thing I find about the M50 is obviously there's not going to be any garda "checkpoints". And they aren't going to stop or pull you over on a motorway unless they have good reason to. So just take down the L-plates and watch your driving - be careful joining/changing lanes etc and they won't bother you. You will see garda cars/traffic corps jeeps driving along the M50 but just act normal - don't start freakin out or gettin nervous because they'll get suspicious. Just drive along like you have as much right to be there as everyone else.

neacy69

if you take down the L-plates and dont speed or do anything stupid then they will have no reason to stop you and they are rarely any random checkpoints on the motorways so if you do risk it you should get away with it

Stark

I drove on the motorways a fair few times when I was on a provisional and never had any hassle. I never bothered to take down the L-plates either. I know a lot of people with full licences who drive cars that are shared with learners and they never have hassle driving on motorways with plates up. Just drive sensibly and don't do anything that attracts attention.

nialler

Think about this question from the OP, being a comfortable driver, not over confident, sensible and concerned by the sounds of it.

You're a provisional driver, in theory you're not allowed to drive on motorways and you're willing to abide by the rules of the road.

You do your test tomorrow, let's say in churchtown, you pass your test, you can f*ck off to the M9 and fly along at 120-130kph, where's the sense in that?

I'd agree with what has been posted above, go on the motorway, stick in the left lane, do 120 or less if you're not comfortable at it but ffs leave on your L Plates I'm sure it's a more serious offence to get caught with them off.

My wife has passed her test recently, I want to bring her out on a motorway to teach her (she's never driven on one) there's rules, there's etiquette and then there's the lunatics watch everything and everyone and trust no one but again go on the Mway and leave your L plates on.

hermit

Just be aware that if you are involved in an accident on the motorway as a provisional driver that your insurance company can devoid your insurance.(most likely they wouldn't do that but it is within the power of your contract with them and the law that they can refuse your cover under such circumstances).

unkel

Moved to the learning to drive forum

Stark

hermit wrote:

Just be aware that if you are involved in an accident on the motorway as a provisional driver that your insurance company can devoid your insurance.(most likely they wouldn't do that but it is within the power of your contract with them and the law that they can refuse your cover under such circumstances).

If you have an accident and someone claims off you, then your insurance company has to pay out. So in that sense, you're still insured. In theory, your insurance company can then turn around and sue you for violating the terms of your licence, but I don't think this has ever happened. There are so many people driving around unaccompanied on provisionals other than their 2nd and the insurance companies don't want to lose this market.

omega man

Have you thought that your insurance might be void if you had an accident on the motorway?? Im sure insurance companies can claim you were driving illegally and therfore not covered. Just a thought.

Just beaten to it! (as above post)

WhiteWashMan

BrandonBlock wrote:

I do it 5 days a week, I'm an L-driver been driving for 1 year. The thing I find about the M50 is obviously there's not going to be any garda "checkpoints". And they aren't going to stop or pull you over on a motorway unless they have good reason to. So just take down the L-plates and watch your driving - be careful joining/changing lanes etc and they won't bother you. You will see garda cars/traffic corps jeeps driving along the M50 but just act normal - don't start freakin out or gettin nervous because they'll get suspicious. Just drive along like you have as much right to be there as everyone else.

ifyou crash while youre a learner driver, and you arent showing your l-plates, your insurance will be voided quicker than you call Quinn direct.

besides, its against the law.

im going to ban every single person here who has suggested breaking the law.

WhiteWashMan

neacy69 and brandonblock both banned for a couple of weeks for suggesting removal of plates.

this is the 'learning to drive' forum, not the 'advice from stupid people' forum.

Wossack

well said

golden

As people have pointed out in reference to the insurance aspect could be voided in the event of an accident.

Also motorways are not for learner drivers for a reason.

There are ways to get up to Dublin without using the M7. I used to do a lot of commuting up and down from Limerick to Dublin. If you are driving up to Dublin you just have to get of the N7 at Portlaoise.

You could ask your employer if you can have a letter saying that you require a car to carry out your job and that might speed up the process of you getting a driving test. Until you get a full driving licence (correct category for whatever vehicle you are driving) then you can not drive on the motorway legally.

nialler

golden wrote:

As people have pointed out in reference to the insurance aspect could be voided in the event of an accident.

Also motorways are not for learner drivers for a reason.

There are ways to get up to Dublin without using the M7. I used to do a lot of commuting up and down from Limerick to Dublin. If you are driving up to Dublin you just have to get of the N7 at Portlaoise.

You could ask your employer if you can have a letter saying that you require a car to carry out your job and that might speed up the process of you getting a driving test. Until you get a full driving licence (correct category for whatever vehicle you are driving) then you can not drive on the motorway legally.

You say motorways are not for learner drivers, let's put the situation this way, what happens if he gets his test tomorrow and passes? He's legal to drive on the Motorway it certainly doesn't make him any more experienced driving the motorway than he was today, yes I'm pointing out the inherent weakness in our testing & training system.

As the OP sounds like a sensible young man maybe the sensible thing to do is avoid the motorway and ignore my suggestion of using it earlier (but using L plates) you'll probably get to dublin quicker anyway.

golden

If the person passes the test he/she has a level of competency to be capable of driving to a certain standard thats the theory anyway!!

Wishbone Ash

BrandonBlock wrote:

The thing I find about the M50 is obviously there's not going to be any garda "checkpoints".

You must have missed them BrandonBlock. They happen occasionally.

nialler wrote:

what happens if he gets his test tomorrow and passes? He's legal to drive on the Motorway it certainly doesn't make him any more experienced driving the motorway than he was today, yes I'm pointing out the inherent weakness in our testing & training system.

That arguement could be used in any situation where a person has passed a test!

Is the doctor, who has passed his final examinations, better than he was the day before? Probably not, but few people would be willing to be seen by a doctor who hasn't qualified.

Royale with Cheese

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Is the doctor, who has passed his final examinations, better than he was the day before? Probably not, but few people would be willing to be seen by a doctor who hasn't qualified.

You've missed his point. A doctor who's passed his final examinations will then go on to perform tasks he's been trained to do.

A learner driver is never allowed to drive on the motorway, during lessons or not. Somebody who has just passed their test has no more experience of driving on motorways than a learner would. If it's so dangerous to drive on motorways then it should be a part of the learning to drive process. But it's not possible to ban learner drivers from motorways and let them learn how to drive on them. The whole system just needs to be overhauled.

green123

WhiteWashMan wrote:

neacy69 and brandonblock both banned for a couple of weeks for suggesting removal of plates.

this is the 'learning to drive' forum, not the 'advice from stupid people' forum.

unfair ban

when they posted their suggestions this thread was in the motors forum

Trampas

Strange thing is a company having a person on a provisional licence driving around the place.

It wouldn't happen where I work

Wishbone Ash

green123 wrote:

unfair ban

when they posted their suggestions this thread was in the motors forum

The Motors Forum and the Learning to Drive Forum use the same charter.

Glowing

Do the responsible thing and get your test first. You can usually have these things in a matter of weeks with a note from your employer.

You HAVE only been driving 3 months - just in case anything did happen on the motorway, the consequences would be a LOT higher than if you crashed on a local or national road.

hermit

Royale with Cheese wrote:

You've missed his point. A doctor who's passed his final examinations will then go on to perform tasks he's been trained to do.

A learner driver is never allowed to drive on the motorway, during lessons or not. Somebody who has just passed their test has no more experience of driving on motorways than a learner would. If it's so dangerous to drive on motorways then it should be a part of the learning to drive process. But it's not possible to ban learner drivers from motorways and let them learn how to drive on them. The whole system just needs to be overhauled.

I do believe that training in the safe and approrpiate use of motorways is important for any driver - but let's not forget about the 100/120 Km/h speeds - it is not a safe training ground for the learner driver or other road users to allow drivers who are not fully competent in safe and responsible driving to practice on. Don't forget neither myself or you know how competent the OP is in terms of driving ability and its not correct for anyone to suggest that he/she gives it a go and hope not to get caught.

Possibly their should be a two tier provisional licence system were the 1st provo. licence is for learning the basic safety, responsibility and skills for driving. The learner driver has a test and is given a second provisional - where motorway usage is allowed and then a further test is used in order to fully qualify a driver as beng competent (the test to also include a stretch of motorway driving). However, I don't believe such scheme could implemented in the short to medium term, given the problems with our current licensing/testing system. I''m sure there are better suggestions out there tho.

Royale with Cheese

hermit wrote:

I do believe that training in the safe and approrpiate use of motorways is important for any driver - but let's not forget about the 100/120 Km/h speeds - it is not a safe training ground for the learner driver or other road users to allow drivers who are not fully competent in safe and responsible driving to practice on.

That's not the view other European countries take. A friend from Germany told me on his third or fourth lesson he was taken out onto the Autobahn and taught how to drive at 200km/h. I kinda implied that it was a bit dangerous but he was having none of it, it's seen as something you need to learn how to do. And rightly so.

What should happen (but won't) is to get rid of the provisional licence alltogether. The only way to legally drive a car without a licence would be with a driving school. You have to have a minimum amount of lessons, we'll say 10, before you can sit the driving test. The lessons involve learning how to drive on motorways. Of course they'd have to erradicate the test waiting list for this to be possible.

I've been driving about 7 months myself, waiting on my test for about 6 months. No sign of that coming anytime soon. I'll be driving down through Wicklow tonight on the motorway without much fear of either being caught or what will happen to me if I am caught. I drive unaccompanied all the time. You can say what you want about not letting L drivers drive unaccompanied or use the motorways (I only use them when I have to) but it's simply not fair to tell me I can't drive for a year because of the ineptness of the system currently in place.

Get rid of the waiting list first, then tackle the problems of incompetent L drivers on the road. I'm not one of them, I'm not stupid and wouldn't be driving on my own or on motorways if I didn't think I was capable of it. I'm a competent driver, but I can't prove that because I'm being asked to wait probably 9-12 months to sit a short driving test.

P.S. I also know a couple of absolutely rubbish drivers who've passed the test recently. Doesn't make them competent, just that they got lucky on the day.

wet-paint

hermit wrote:

The learner driver has a test and is given a second provisional - where motorway usage is allowed and then a further test is used in order to fully qualify a driver as beng competent (the test to also include a stretch of motorway driving).

And then every single person in the country would have to go up to Dublin just to drive on a motorway. Good luck.

Stark

There are plenty of dual carriageways around. Many of them are full motorway standard. People could be trained/tested on these.

wet-paint

Thus eliminating the need for a second provisional! And you're allowed go seventy on the Motorways, and only sixty on the DC's. I agree, they're just as fine a road, it's BS the way it is. I'm a learner, but have no L plates up or second fully licensed passenger. I'm told by cops in town that I'm fine. That's enough for me.

ambman

i am getting worried none of the know it all's around here pointed out that if you are only driving 3 months then you should not be driving on your own never mind on the motorways . haven said that get on take your time leave the L plates up and you should be fine. i did it for a long time and no hassle at all.
also could excuse if your late for work. say you werent allowed on the motorway:rolleyes:

Wishbone Ash

ambman wrote:

i am getting worried none of the know it all's around here pointed out that if you are only driving 3 months then you should not be driving on your own never mind on the motorways

Probably because the 'know it alls' have read the OP's post. At no stage does he say that he is driving unaccompanied.

ambman

lol n1 wishbone;)

wet-paint

ambman wrote:

if you are only driving 3 months then you should not be driving on your own...

Where'd you get three months from? I thought it was that as long as you're on the 1st provo, you're not allowed to be on your own?

Wishbone Ash

wet-paint wrote:

Where'd you get three months from?

ambman was referring to the opening post.......

Fizman wrote:

I'm driving 3 months

wet-paint wrote:

I thought it was that as long as you're on the 1st provo, you're not allowed to be on your own?

You must be accompanied by a relevant full licence holder for your 1st, 3rd and subsequent provisional licenses (except for categories A,A1,M & W).

Mitch Connor

Stark wrote:

There are plenty of dual carriageways around. Many of them are full motorway standard. People could be trained/tested on these.

if a dual carriageway is seen as a suitable replacement for a motorway in a training situation - why not just let learner drivers on the motorway? IMO it is far easier to drive on a motorway then a dual carraigeway - no traffic lights, less variable speedlimits and no right turns.

I really don't understand how a DC is safe to drive on while a motorway is not.

Heinrich

What drivel some folk come up with!

It is illegal for L drivers to drive on the motorway. Suggesting plate removal or going anyway is downright stupid! Is it really surprising that we had that colossal pileup in Nass recently? We blame the fog and lack of signage and the "other drivers" speeding. It the car in front is doing 20 kpm then you cannot speed behind him. Simple.

Other countries do not let L drivers drive unaccompanied and insist on a certain amount of professional lessons with a registered driving school.

Jimoslimos

Tauren wrote:

if a dual carriageway is seen as a suitable replacement for a motorway in a training situation - why not just let learner drivers on the motorway? IMO it is far easier to drive on a motorway then a dual carraigeway - no traffic lights, less variable speedlimits and no right turns.

I really don't understand how a DC is safe to drive on while a motorway is not.

QFT! Changing the colour of road signs from green to blue doesn't make it any less of a DC. My biggest problem is that learner drivers are being further inconvienced because some muppet of a minister wants to say he's created 1000km of "new" motorways in his upcoming election manifesto.:mad:

Comparing this with my experience of doing the test in England. Motorway driving is also banned for L-drivers, HOWEVER part of my potential test-route was on a three-lane national A road where you would be expected to maintain progress up to the speed limit of 70mph or fail.

jackofalltrades

why not just let learner drivers on the motorway? IMO it is far easier to drive on a motorway then a dual carraigeway - no traffic lights, less variable speedlimits and no right turns.

I really don't understand how a DC is safe to drive on while a motorway is not.

I have a friend who has absolutley no driving experience, if learner drivers were to be allowed on motorways, I could legally bring him to the on-ramp of the busiest most dangerous/craziest junction on the M50 and let him at it, do you think that would be safe? and remember being the country were in and the drivers we have, somebody out there would try it.

OP, if you are going to drive on motorways id suggest, avoiding the M50 completely and busy times on other motorways as the sudden accelerating and braking that you can get on them can be very draining on your concentration.

Cerdito

This thread has reminded me of something I read in the Irish Times last week related to this. It speculates about what will happen to any provisional drivers caught up in the M7 fog pile up:

Originally Posted by Irish Times

Gardaí investigating the pile-up have yet to confirm if any drivers involved had a provisional licence. If a provisional driver was involved, he or she is likely to face difficulties when making a claim. According to [Michael Horan, manager of non-life insurance with the Irish Insurance Federation] a car struck by a provisional driver on a motorway would be fully covered.

"That won't affect the rights of the person who was run into because it is not his fault the learner driver was outside the terms of his licence," he says. "However, if a provisional driver is struck by someone else, or damaged their car during an evasive manoeuvre, the fact that they were driving outside the terms of their licence could have a bearing on their claim and it could be refused."

Mitch Connor

jackofalltrades wrote:

I have a friend who has absolutley no driving experience, if learner drivers were to be allowed on motorways, I could legally bring him to the on-ramp of the busiest most dangerous/craziest junction on the M50 and let him at it, do you think that would be safe? and remember being the country were in and the drivers we have, somebody out there would try it.

OP, if you are going to drive on motorways id suggest, avoiding the M50 completely and busy times on other motorways as the sudden accelerating and braking that you can get on them can be very draining on your concentration.

you can bring them to on on-ramp for a dual carriageway with a limit of 100kph and let them at it - is a motorway really any more dangerous? I personally don't think it is, for the reasons i have mentioned previously

Fizman

For those interested, I travelled yesterday up and back on the M7 and M50. Stuck to the limit for the journey and there were no worries. Took me 3 hours to get up and 4 to get back (I hope i don't have to frequent that M50 on too many more bank holiday weekends).

Oh and i kept my plates up. Only time I got a bit worried was when I was on the way up and on the M7, was in the right lane overtaking (only doin bout 110-115) when i see in my rear view mirror a nice shiny police car up my arse. After over-taking I pulled straight in to the left lane and gladly saw them tear past me at about 140-150 easily. Other than that a pretty uneventful journey, although now I realise that a car without air con (my 00 Golf) stuck in traffic on a sweltering day can be a pretty uncomfortable experience. Although I spent much of the time on the M50 alongside a very nice Alfa Romeo Brera (first i've seen) so I just admired that for a while.

Thanks for the replies, and apologies to the two lads who got banned for their responses to my post (pretty harsh I felt).

Seinas

If you applied for your test you should have got a letter from your employer showing that you actually need a full licence for driving to work..

Posy

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Probably because the 'know it alls' have read the OP's post. At no stage does he say that he is driving unaccompanied.

But if he's driving with someone who has a full licence, he could just swap seats before they get to the motorway so he's obviously driving on his own or this wouldn't be a problem.

I don't think learners should be allowed on motorways but I think driving schools should be allowed drive on the motorway. An Irish School of Motoring instructor, for example, would not bring someone onto the motorway before they're ready, plus it'd be safer as most driving school cars have dual controls. Just a thought.
It must be strange for someone on a full licence driving an L plated car on the motorway (if their son/daughter/partner is learning) as it does look like they're breaking the law but they are perfectly innocent. :rolleyes:

Chakar

You can't drive on the motorways OP.

Its the law anyway. I guess you'll have to get your driving test done so.

Mitch Connor

Karyn wrote:

It must be strange for someone on a full licence driving an L plated car on the motorway (if their son/daughter/partner is learning) as it does look like they're breaking the law but they are perfectly innocent. :rolleyes:

Technically, i think they are breaking the law. I'm fairly certain a full licenced driver is required to remove the L plates when they are driving.

I would be shokced if you got pulled in and done for it, but i think it is a requirement.

Posy

Does anyone know this for certain? I'd find it strange if people have to pull over to unpeel the L plates before driving on the motorway. You'd need a good supply of spare L's.

Wishbone Ash

Tauren wrote:

a full licenced driver is required to remove the L plates when they are driving

That view is trotted out here fairly occasionally but no one is able to give any supporting evidence. I've never seen any prohibition in any of the Statutory Instruments.

Chakar

Tauren wrote:

Technically, i think they are breaking the law. I'm fairly certain a full licenced driver is required to remove the L plates when they are driving.

Its not against the law for a licensed driver to have a L plate while they're driving. I don't know where you got that idea.

Just think about it, if it was illegal it would be an insanely stupid law. There are so many scenarios involved in its enforcement if it was a law.

OP are you still driving on the motorways on a provisional licence?

Stark

I think people are getting the idea that a fully licenced driver isn't allowed display L-plates from UK law. It is illegal up North and in Great Britain to display L-plates when there's someone with a full licence in charge of the vehicle.

Btw, the AA shops sell L-plates that you can easily put on and peel off.

Idbatterim

the chance of being stopped on a motorway is very slim, as has been said many full license drivers share with learners and they dont get hassled. Even if you got stopped youd probably get away with a warning.

Royale with Cheese

Magnetic plates are the way to go. Although I have to take them off everytime I park in public cos some pikey scumbag would just nick them eventually.