Crossfit. My experiences so far

The Shane

We have from time to time seen a couple a posters come onto the forum and ask general fitness advice only to be give the stock answer of check out crossfit for all your fitness needs. And by and large that is pretty good advice.

I was given that advice by FiannaGym a while back (I reckon back in 2004) and while I read some of the articles and echoed the advice to anyone who asked me about fitness I wasn’t really a convert. Since Christmas just gone I have stuck as rigidly to the WODs as is possible to do without completely giving up your life. In this regard I would say that I get in about 80% of the WODs (or variations) and still manage to train and see people.

I say manage to train but I am sitting her typing because my back is in knots after an intense deadlifting WOD and I’m skipping training in favour of a hot pack and writing about training.

So what was I doing before? I was doing a predominantly powerlifting workout with occasional bursts of cardio and additional pull ups and the odd strongman routine (tyre flipping being my favourite).

What Am I doing now? Mostly the WODs. I don’t like to run and consequently sub in other similarly themed work outs for running – rowing, cycling or skipping. I’ll do the shorter distances when they are in the amalgamated workouts but generally try to avoid running as it messes with my fallen arches. I’m trying at the moment to follow the WODs a month in arrears, as I found staying up to date was hard and left no flexibility to plan.

How has this impacted on my fitness? Hard to say, I’ve goals of getting a bit bigger which seem to be going to plan, but I wasn’t trying for this before and as such there is no hard and fast comparison. Before Christmas I was trying to set a new bench press record, and with crossfit I’ve all but discarded the bench press as an exercise. So as you might imagine my lifts have gone down there. Not as much as you might imagine though. The increased shoulder work (a lot of shoulder work) and dip work have really brought my upper body strength to a different place. Dare I call it “functional”? I have a better handstand, increased core stability (I also took up Pilates), and more powerful legs. Flexibility is improved and I have more strength at odd angles.

Any summary of my sports performance would be vain or bashful so I will omit it but with the notes that I seem to be generally regarded as strong and manage to last and keep a certain pace at the ends of a class.

All that aside, the most important factoring crossfit is that I enjoy it. More than you can imagine. With the month laid out ahead of me, I see workouts that repeat frequently and strive to set new and better times. I like the swings between what seems pure cardio to intense one rep max lifting. From ultra endurance workouts (one such night had 90 reps by bodyweight bench press, all but discarded) to crazy mixes of all of the above. I start getting anxious days in advance of some workouts – Cindy is my favourite, not to leave out Fran.

It is this that I think really sells the crossfit methodology to me. Some times I have to modify a WOD but the community of people (despite being staunch right wing nuts) are ever helpful and never tire of answering the same questions. On top of that the average crossfit workout takes me no more than 45mins. I like that. Who wouldn’t?

All in all, I can’t imagine a scenario where I would go back to regular three sets of 8 to 12 reps over four exercises and some crunches at the end. Anyone who does is just kidding themselves.

Shane, The.

PeakOutput

The Shane wrote:

All in all, I can’t imagine a scenario where I would go back to regular three sets of 8 to 12 reps over four exercises and some crunches at the end. Anyone who does is just kidding themselves.

Shane, The.

that would be me then any links on where to get more info on this???

Colm_OReilly

www.crossfit.com

There's a host of other sites around that offer crossfit style workouts and crossfit prep workouts as well

eoghan.geraghty

I for one can vouch for shanes increased strength in grappling/wrestling since new year.
I've had to resort to using technique lately, dammit:mad:

Colm_OReilly

eoghan.geraghty wrote:

I for one can vouch for shanes increased strength in grappling/wrestling since new year.
I've had to resort to using technique lately, dammit:mad:

Careful man, that's a slippery slope!

HammerHeadGym

Go Shane.

Fran FTW!!

cavedave

I tried it there for a few weeks before cracking a rib. Even at the "do half the weight on the half the workouts you know how to do" scheme I was working it seemed really good. I thought it would be useful not to do it alone as you do get to a point where having some reason not to stop would be good.

I find the right wingedness of crossfit pretty strange. I wonder is there a connection between being really into fitness and self reliance? There does seem to be a connection between outdoor activity people and libertarianism. Presumably because if you want to do stupid dangerous things you must accept other people have the right to do stupid dangerous things as well.
I do not think martial arts have the same homogenous political compasses though.

MrO

Hi Folks,
Just wondering does *using* the crossfit programme involve just adhering to the daily recommendations or is there more to it than that. I've had a look at the site and thats what it appears to be?

Thanks!

Dragan

I don't really care about the political orientation of anyone, especially the Glassmans. They are putting qualtiy information out there for free. That’s says a lot in my book.

What a lot of people fail to realise about the WOD's is that they are all designed to run into each. There really is a bigger picture in mind there. You will end up seeing similar movements and systems of reps and excercises coming up, and will notice and increase in workload and ability as time goes on. It's a horribly clevel way to get people to actually do stuff that benefits them as opposed to doing what they WANT to do.

For the average person who wants to be healthier, and for the MMA fighter who wants to be better I cannot recommend it enough.

Like The Shane said…..you'll be stronger at odd angles. I have yet to see a fight Bench Press mid fight.

Colm_OReilly

I'd like to comment on this fully when I get the time, in the meantime, I'll put forward my thoughts on the right wingedness of crossfit.

Crossfit was designed, to the best of my knowledge, by militia personnel. As such the mentality and culture (Boo Yah Master Chief) would have been transported into Crossfit.

Semper Fi,
Colm

Dragan

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Semper Fi

I actual read up about the origins of that last week. Very interesting stuff!

Dragan

Shane having seen some pics on bebo you're looking scary strong. (bebo being the ultimate proof on strength)

Dragan wrote:

I have yet to see a fight Bench Press mid fight.

Jeez, how have you been escaping mount recently.

Dragan

columok wrote:

Jeez, how have you been escaping mount recently.

Sorry Colum,

i simply meant that the bench implies a perfectly prone body, stable bar with equal weight distribution and very specific chain of muscles being fired.....oh yeah, and it's not trying to punch you in the face.

From a dynamic effort perspective, ANYTHING done with a resisting opponent will bear very little resemblance to a stationary lift.

How often have you maxed out on the bench then slide your hips out? :eek:

I should clarify. I was joking about the usual first day strongman mount escape of bench press into being armbarred. They generally gas out trying to constantly bench press you off them.

How often have you maxed out on the bench then slide your hips out?

Like every time. I often do bench 300 lbs then work some shrimps while keeping the bar steady. Fvck yeah!

spiral

Shane what would you recommend for a beginner starting off on Crossfit is there a core set of exercises you can use and sub for those you cant do ?

Dragan

columok wrote:

I should clarify. I was joking about the usual........

Ah, sorry dude. Had a funeral over the weekend and it seems to have switched my sense of humour to "off".

Dragan

spiral wrote:

Shane what would you recommend for a beginner starting off on Crossfit is there a core set of exercises you can use and sub for those you cant do ?

If you go to www.crossfit.com and go to the FAQ it's all covered in there.

spiral

k cheers dragan

David Jones

Cindy is my favourite, not to leave out Fran

Lets not forget Linda (my personal favourite)

"Linda"
10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 reps of the triplet:
Deadlift: 1 1/2 body weight
Bench press: body weight
Clean: 3/4 body weight

and "Nasty Girls" , two absolute nightmares.

"Nasty Girls"

3 rounds for time of:
50 Squats
7 Muscle-ups
135 pound Hang power cleans, 10 reps



Crossfit stuff is superb although you would want a fairly solid knowledge of the main lifts so as not to injure yourself. There are video demos on the site if you arent sure of what something is but definitely be careful if you havent done a particular lift before.

Khannie

I tried doing it for a while (I'd say about 6 weeks)....but nights that I was going to MT I was just too bollixed to start into another workout, so I considered my MT class to be the workout for that day. I found it hard to sub some of the exercises with my limited set of kit (free weights, a bench, a bag, chin bar and skipping rope) but if you use your imagination that's usually sufficient.

I've been seriously considering starting it again, though with baby, it's hard to guarantee a solid free hour in the evenings.

While I was doing it, I definitely noticed a rapid improvement in fitness and core strength.

Roper

Whats with the lack of work on the beach muscles? Hammer curls ftw!

The Shane

True. It does neglect the all important beach posing muscles in favour of functional strength. That raises the issue of what is functional strength - in terms of beach wear. Olympic lifting is probably not that functional.


I sometimes have to skip some of the workouts that demand a couple of bars and many of the WODs are built around the shape of crossfit HQ. This means that where the rack is next to pull up bars in CFHQ they are not in the gym you might be using. I'm either in my garage or hercs (get some odd looks sprinting from olympic lift to pull up and what not). You just have to suck it up and try your best to accomodate the workout but if you can't, find a similarly themed workout.

As for getting started, they recommend that you work the basic mechanics of the exercises for a while. This will only really apply to the olympic lifts for most people, actually, deadlift too, there is some appalling deadlift form out there and the crossfit journal has had a couple of articles on how and why to do this properly (it's okay to use your back - a conversation I had with one of those health and safety know-it-alls in work).

I recommend working the exercises and routines you can, adapting the ones you can't in terms of intensity and number and working the technique purely on ones that you don't have the skills for yet. If you are only starting crossfit, then chances are you'll be wiped for a few days after the first intense set you get.

As for the politics, I am like Dragan hugely appreciative of the effort, quality and input of the Glassmans. They are providing the finest online fitness resource nearly completely gratis. The political scape isn't even one of pro-bush, it just has a very right wing current to it. Some of it, and this is the individual not the movement are just crazy, I found a picture of an american eagle giving the "middle claw" over the backdrop of the american flag. The tagline read "Jihad This!". People like that who own guns terrify me.

Shane, The

Colm_OReilly

Who are the Glassmans?

Guns are cool!

How does crossfit prepare an athlete who is trying to peak for competition?

What about in season/off season athletes, like rowers or rugby players, how would the WoD's fit in then?

Or is it a case of crossfit delivers fitness, and sport, being different than fitness, requires different exercise?

Colm
-Curious

The Shane

Who are the Glassmans?

Greg and Lauren Glassman are the founders of crossfit.

Guns are cool!

Yes they are. But should not be left in the hands of zealots with a warped world view.

How does crossfit prepare an athlete who is trying to peak for competition?

Crossfit is predominantly orientated towards fitness for the now. In that respect it is not great for peaking. Bearing that in mind peaking itself is simply focusing on the desired attributes and getting steadily better at them. Most athletes could make a decent estimate at what goals they could hit if they pushed themselves for a given timeframe. In that that respect I think a modified crossfit workout is your best bet. While many olympic lifters use it you can bet that theya re focusing most of their energies on olympic lifts. There are several websites with sport specific WODs. At the moment I feel like the general is the best for me.

What about in season/off season athletes, like rowers or rugby players, how would the WoD's fit in then?

In terms of off season athletes I think staying in great shape with the general fitness work etc and then tapering with some sport specific focusing, then maintenance for the season duration. The crossfit journal covers the training routines for basketball teams and baseball teams recently.

Or is it a case of crossfit delivers fitness, and sport, being different than fitness, requires different exercise?

Yes. But see answer above.


Shane, The

Valmont

Dragan wrote:

How often have you maxed out on the bench then slide your hips out? :eek:

Now there's an interesting workout, haha:D

Dragan

Some excellent answers out of The Shane about Crossfit there, but I just wanted to add one or two things about Crossfit and peaking for a competition or whatever.

As The Shane said, the general Crossfit program and following the WOD's will develop a "fitness now" trainee who can run, jump, lift and throw to a great capacity. They will not be world class in ALL those aspects, someone who trains predominantly lifting will out lift them, running will out run them etc but they will be "well rounded" to use an MMA phrase. Even more so than that, their anaerobic and metabolic condition will be off the charts. There recover times minimal and there ability to generate work load in a short space of time extremely high.

One of the greatest strengths of the Crossfit program in general is that it forces the trainee beyond comfort levels and shows that there is really nothing to fear from pushing yourself to the point of extreme fatigue. You WILL recover from a short burst high intensity workout, no matter how bad you feel at the time. I have found that Crossfit develops a mental strength in trainee's that few other programs can.

Now then, with regard to Crossfit and peaking for an event, that’s a tad more complicated. The person would need to have a great understanding of the program itself, and also a birdseye and impartial view of the rest of there training and performance. That’s why people have coaches and trainers, people who can stay unemotionally invovled to a degree and make you work or rest as needed. The main joy of Crossfit is the scaling, you can make things harder or easier depending on your needs. As such, I could take some bench mark WOD's and slowly scale them up over a 7 week period, each time calling for a slightly greater output of energy and effort. As such, we could peak and athlete's conditioning by adding Crossfit with the correct scaling into there plan.

In order for it to work effectively though it would be recommend that the fighter have been training WOD's for a minimum of 2 months before hand to ensure they are used to the demands of it. Otherwise you could easily lead to over training, as could incorrect scaling which would cost your fighter big time.

A final note on peaking would be that the idea is to be able to STOP the week before and allow the body to recover and in effect GROW and DEVELOP into it's new found capacity for work and you can easily train to a point where this would be difficult to do and you would simply be tired. In short, while the general Crossfit Program will create fitness now, with a degree of understanding in the program and human performance you can adapt it for peaking cycles very effectively.

Colm_OReilly

Thanks Dragan,

A few more inquiries:

1) Dragan's feelings on in season/off season training with crossfit. Obviously in our sports we're peaking but power based sports like rowing and rugby compete once a week/fortnight.

2) Balancing crossfit with skill development training, what sort of balance is ideal? You can assume the athlete has 6 free hours a week and sufficient recovery time.

3) Crossfit juniors? For the promising young athletes, what up with that?

Cheers,
Colm
-Planning for the future

Dragan

Colm_OReilly wrote:

1) Dragan's feelings on in season/off season training with crossfit. Obviously in our sports we're peaking but power based sports like rowing and rugby compete once a week/fortnight.

The joy of sports like rowing/rugby etc is the off season. That’s where the major gains are made. All you need is 8 to 12 weeks off season with sufficent rest before ( about 7 to 14 days from the end of season, once you have no injuries ) and after ( I would say about 7 to 10 days from the last heavy training day, keeping light training going every 2 to 3 days, flexibility and cardio training as well , lots of physio work etc ) and you can make massive changes to speed, power out put and work in some sport specific training. It's a blanket statement but I can't think of any sport that would not benefit from a nice strong posterior chain ( the current "in" fad in training but for sports it works ) and you can easily add to the strenght of this in 8 to 12 weeks with the right program, rest and nutrition.

Crossfit would work in this regard but to be honest I would not have people doing it solely…..i would place a far greater emphasis on sports specific training, and no better way to do that that train the sport itself!!! Sports specific should simply mean breaking the sport down to it's component pieces and working on improving them, then bringing it all together on the pitch/in the boat, on the road, where ever you happen to compete.

Lets take rugby as an example. You need to work all the skills and techniques of the game, work on plays, work on positioning etc. You also needs your players to be carrying out ROLE SPECIFIC training. If someone runs fast, and is playing a position to maximise that you have them working sprints. You want them to be FAST. If someone is in the front row of the scrum you want them to have power and a high force output, you don't have them emphasising sprint work overall.

You can easily work in Crossfit style routines to work on endurance and recovery, rugby is a start/stop game for speedy recover after maximal output is vital to a teams success. Rowing is more awkward, you need power, strenght and endurance, you need to keep that output up over a long and painful distance but the benefits are still there is crossfit style, scaling workouts and dropping rest periods as the weeks progress.

In short, my feelings is that crossfit would be beneficial, but should really be a smaller part in the training for sports like these. A coach should looks at his team, evaluate weaknesses and use short term training plans to rectify them. You should never see an entire team training the same way unless they all carry out EXACTLY the same function. A difference in function should mean a difference in training.

ON SEASON they should then simply maintain the power, endurance they have developed. But part of the joy is that simply playing a match will do this, light training after, then a heavy training day, a light training day and then match day. Once again mid season individual weaknesses need to be worked on as best as they can but it's really all about maintain health and match fitness. The games/events are hard enough.

Colm_OReilly wrote:

2) Balancing crossfit with skill development training, what sort of balance is ideal? You can assume the athlete has 6 free hours a week and sufficient recovery time.

If an athelte ( lets argue the case of a fighter ) has 6 free hours a week that he could possible train and recover from then I would question his training. If time is there that they can train and has sufficent recovery then it should be used. I would also argue the point that Crossfit could be considered to be skill development. Endurance, recovery and maximising output and workload are all skills, the mental fortitude developed by a gut wrenching WOD is a skill, in a way.

Regardless of that and without trying to make too many blanket statements I would think that some short time, high energy output WOD's would be of benefit when factored into almost any training program, but I would ( and any decent coach would do this without thinking about it ) need to see the exact structure of the trainee's training cycle before adding anything in.

If I had my way though I would have them doing a lot of technique based work if they had 6 free hours. You can amp up someones conditiong and fitness with about 2 hours hard work a week over a short period. These are simple muscle and organ functions and your body will improve very dramatically if you train it right and feed it and rest it well. All technique based actions are victims of the CNS…..and working on that can be more difficult and more strenuous and is why most people mess up. The see throwing a punch as being a muscle action, when it’s not. Your CNS is firing a certain chain, making it more efficent at firing that chain makes you faster and stronger, not having big muscles.

Once again the abilities of the individual come into play here, if they have good conditiong but poor technique then the emphasis lies there, and obviously there is another side to that coin. In the case of a fighter you need to be able to go at 100% for anywhere up to 15 to 25 mins. Lets call it a max of 30 mins with rest times between rounds. As such, that really all you need to do in a Crossfit style workout to know your endurance is where you need it to be. If you can do something like Shark Bait for 30 mins then your sorted. There is an argument that there is always more you can do with regard to output but that needs to be built up slowly. If someone can fo Fight Gone Bad really well then you make one segment harder for them, then another, then another over time and build up output that way. You don't double the effort on everything straight away!

I'm kind of waffling now but I guess I'm just trying to get the point across that there are two many individual factors with regard to different trainees to just say "25% Crossfit, 75% Technique" or something similar.

I can try and come up with a decent sample program for anyone that wants it who would like to show me there current routines, diets and recovery?

Colm_OReilly wrote:

3) Crossfit juniors? For the promising young athletes, what up with that?

It's a must in my opinion. Build up that big base of fitness and mentality when they are young and your giving them a great base to work off regardless of what sport they go into in the future.

mickoo

I would not recommend 1 training system for everybody as everybody has different goals, abilities, and not everybody recovers the same-Age, Sex and nutrition will all come into play here, i will not pretend to be an expert on this system as i have only read this thread! But it does not seem to be very good for rest and recovery and this in turn can lead to burn out and injuries short and long term, Maybe mma fighters could use some parts of the system that will be more specific to there sport. Just an opinion as i have only judged this by what i read on this thread-:cool:

Dragan

mickoo wrote:

But it does not seem to be very good for rest and recovery and this in turn can lead to burn out and injuries short and long term

Hey Mickoo, just wondering what you mean by "good" for rest and recovery and also how you came to that conclusion based on reading this thread?

Cheers.

mickoo

Dragan wrote:

Hey Mickoo, just wondering what you mean by "good" for rest and recovery and also how you came to that conclusion based on reading this thread?

Cheers.

I came to the conclusion because im hearing a lot about intesive training and nothing about proper rest times-The more intense the exercise the more recovery is needed, The best programs usually are devised to factor in recovery rates of different muscles-For example-Arms recover very quick from exercise, maybe 1-2 days. Legs recover much slower and is more like 5-6 days recovery, These are basic guidelines as im not basing it on any given workout or individual.. I already explained that i dont know the system well enough yet to give any major input, Can you explain the rest and recovery for this system keeping in mind MMA athletes probably train intensely most day's? Cheers.